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  • Jody
    Hi All, I have the frame setup the want I want it in general. I do not know if the code is correct, but it is the sizes I want for the three frames. When
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 27, 2000
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      Hi All,

      I have the frame setup the want I want it in general. I do not
      know if the code is correct, but it is the sizes I want for the
      three frames. When clicking on a link in the content menu, how
      do I get it to open in the main window:

      <frameset rows=25%,75% frameborder="NO" bordercolor=#FFFFFF border=0>
      <frameset cols=25%,75% frameborder="NO" bordercolor=#FFFFFF border=0>
      <frame name="software" src="software.htm" marginwidth=5 marginheight=15 scrolling="AUTO" frameborder="NO" border=0>
      <frame name="content" src="content.htm" marginwidth=5 marginheight=15 scrolling="AUTO" frameborder="NO" border=0>
      <frame name="main" src="frame1.htm" marginwidth=15 marginheight=15 frameborder="NO" border=0>
      </frameset>
      </frameset>

      In my test file I did the Glossary with one of my Clips. The
      link below in content.htm works fine with the two frames, but
      when I rearrange to make three frames it does not work so I
      suspect my problem it above.

      <A HREF="frame6.htm" TARGET="main">API</A><BR>

      I'm wanting it to look like:

      |-------------------------------------------------|
      | software | |
      | | Content frame |
      | frame | |
      | | |
      |-------------------------------------------------|
      | |
      | |
      | |
      | |
      | Main frame |
      | |
      | |
      | |
      | |
      | |
      |-------------------------------------------------|

      Happy HTML'n!
      Jody

      http://www.notetab.net

      The NoteTab and Html List...
      mailto:Ntb-html-Subscribe@...
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    • Lloyd
      Hi Jody, Perhaps I don t understand what you are trying to do BUT...
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 27, 2000
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        Hi Jody,

        Perhaps I don't understand what you are trying to do BUT...



        <frameset rows=25%,75% frameborder="NO" bordercolor=#FFFFFF border=0>
        <frameset cols=25%,75% frameborder="NO" bordercolor=#FFFFFF border=0>
        <frame name="software" src="software.htm" marginwidth=5 marginheight=15
        scrolling="AUTO" frameborder="NO" border=0>
        <frame name="content" src="content.htm" marginwidth=5 marginheight=15
        scrolling="AUTO" frameborder="NO" border=0>
        </frameset>
        <frame name="main" src="frame1.htm" marginwidth=15 marginheight=15
        frameborder="NO" border=0>

        </frameset>

        Will that give you what you wanted?

        Lloyd
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        >Hi All,
        >
        >I have the frame setup the want I want it in general. I do not
        >know if the code is correct, but it is the sizes I want for the
        >three frames. When clicking on a link in the content menu, how
        >do I get it to open in the main window:
        >
        ><frameset rows=25%,75% frameborder="NO" bordercolor=#FFFFFF border=0>
        ><frameset cols=25%,75% frameborder="NO" bordercolor=#FFFFFF border=0>
        > <frame name="software" src="software.htm" marginwidth=5 marginheight=15
        > scrolling="AUTO" frameborder="NO" border=0>
        > <frame name="content" src="content.htm" marginwidth=5 marginheight=15
        > scrolling="AUTO" frameborder="NO" border=0>
        > <frame name="main" src="frame1.htm" marginwidth=15 marginheight=15
        > frameborder="NO" border=0>
        ></frameset>
        ></frameset>
        >
        >In my test file I did the Glossary with one of my Clips. The
        >link below in content.htm works fine with the two frames, but
        >when I rearrange to make three frames it does not work so I
        >suspect my problem it above.
        >
        ><A HREF="frame6.htm" TARGET="main">API</A><BR>
        >
        >I'm wanting it to look like:
        >
        >|-------------------------------------------------|
        >| software | |
        >| | Content frame |
        >| frame | |
        >| | |
        >|-------------------------------------------------|
        >| |
        >| |
        >| |
        >| |
        >| Main frame |
        >| |
        >| |
        >| |
        >| |
        >| |
        >|-------------------------------------------------|
        >
        >Happy HTML'n!
        >Jody
        >
        >http://www.notetab.net
        >
        >The NoteTab and Html List...
        >mailto:Ntb-html-Subscribe@...
        >mailto:Ntb-html-UnSubscribe@...
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Jody
        Hi Lloyd, ... That s it - thanks! I see I needed to move my closing frameset up one. Appreciate it. ... Happy HTML n! Jody http://www.notetab.net The NoteTab
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 27, 2000
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          Hi Lloyd,

          >Perhaps I don't understand what you are trying to do BUT...

          That's it - thanks! I see I needed to move my closing frameset up one. Appreciate it.

          ><frameset rows=25%,75% frameborder="NO" bordercolor=#FFFFFF border=0>
          ><frameset cols=25%,75% frameborder="NO" bordercolor=#FFFFFF border=0>
          > <frame name="software" src="software.htm" marginwidth=5 marginheight=15
          >scrolling="AUTO" frameborder="NO" border=0>
          > <frame name="content" src="content.htm" marginwidth=5 marginheight=15
          >scrolling="AUTO" frameborder="NO" border=0>
          ></frameset>
          > <frame name="main" src="frame1.htm" marginwidth=15 marginheight=15
          >frameborder="NO" border=0>
          ></frameset>


          Happy HTML'n!
          Jody

          http://www.notetab.net

          The NoteTab and Html List...
          mailto:Ntb-html-Subscribe@...
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        • Lloyd
          Hi Jody, Is this anything like you were looking for? Lloyd ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          Message 4 of 20 , Sep 2, 2002
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            Hi Jody,

            Is this anything like you were looking for?

            Lloyd
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            <frameset rows="30%,*" frameborder="no" bordercolor="#ffcccc" border="0">
            <frame src="software.htm" name="sw">
            <frameset cols="20%,69%,*" frameborder="no" bordercolor="#ffcccc"
            border="0">
            <frame src="group10.htm" name="grps">
            <frame src="f1.htm" name="main">
            <frame src="group-dex.htm" name="grp-dex">
            </frameset>
            </frameset>
            </frameset>
          • Jody
            Hi Lloyd, Close, but no --- however, thanks to you I could get the missing frame in that was not in your s. I would have never have figured it out. I m
            Message 5 of 20 , Sep 2, 2002
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              Hi Lloyd,

              Close, but no --- however, thanks to you I could get the missing
              frame in that was not in your's. I would have never have figured
              it out. I'm starting to learn them a bit. I still have to work
              on software links, maybe sync'n them, but it looks like it'll
              be a hassle, and some other stuff. I'm thinking on breaking the
              groups down to 5 pages each. It's real easy with my Clip - one
              click. ;) That would give more room for the funny to display.
              http://clean-funnies.com/ Thanks much! I can take a nap now;
              been up all night.

              Here is my frameset:

              <frameset rows="10%,*" frameborder="no" bordercolor="#ffcccc" border="0">
              <frame src="c-f.htm" name="top" scrolling=no>
              <frameset cols="20%,69%,*" frameborder="no" bordercolor="#ffcccc" border="0">
              <frame src="software.htm" name="sw">
              <frameset rows="40%,*" frameborder="no" bordercolor="#ffcccc" border="0">
              <frame src="html/group10.htm" name="grps">
              <frame src="html/f1.htm" name="main">
              </frameset>
              <frame src="group-dex.htm" name="grp-dex">
              </frameset>
              </frameset>
              <noframes>
              <body>
              <a href="html/f1.htm"></a>
              </body>
              </noframes>

              >Is this anything like you were looking for?
              >
              >Lloyd
              >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              >
              ><frameset rows="30%,*" frameborder="no" bordercolor="#ffcccc" border="0">
              > <frame src="software.htm" name="sw">
              > <frameset cols="20%,69%,*" frameborder="no" bordercolor="#ffcccc"
              >border="0">
              > <frame src="group10.htm" name="grps">
              > <frame src="f1.htm" name="main">
              > <frame src="group-dex.htm" name="grp-dex">
              > </frameset>
              > </frameset>
              ></frameset>


              Happy HTML'n!
              Jody

              http://www.notetab.net

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            • British Consulate General - Jerusalem
              Message 6 of 20 , Sep 2, 2002
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              • bensbach
                Some days ago I did a little re-vamping and put some additional documents on my website, on a server in the UK. The changes cannot be seen here in Thailand.
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 18, 2008
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                  Some days ago I did a little re-vamping and put some
                  additional documents on my website, on a server in the
                  UK. The changes cannot be seen here in Thailand. Going
                  on past experience it will take about a week for the
                  changes to become visible. Have been told that websites
                  are cached on servers around the world and these are only
                  "refreshed" every so often. (?) Anyway, I cannot yet see
                  what bugs the site may have, or even if it is there at
                  all.
                  Frustrating !

                  The site, www.rainbow ends.org uses two vertical frames:
                  a narrow left-hand one to list content and to the right
                  of that the document being viewed.

                  I gather that frames are rather disparaged these days,
                  but the alternative until something better is widely
                  adopted would seem to be tables.

                  The problem with tables is:

                  1) I do not have time to go manually updating large
                  numbers of files every time the Contents changes
                  (optimistically, I hope to do this more often in future,
                  the site having been almost unchanged in seven years)

                  2) I do not have any programming skills to automate the
                  task.

                  3) The content of a table is fixed, while the content of
                  a frame can be changed with a mouse click

                  At the foot of each document there is a link which now
                  goes to a Categories Page which links to several Contents
                  Pages. Each of the latter lists files that can be clicked
                  on and brought up in the Main Frame.

                  Previously there was just a single Contents Page, listing
                  all documents (i.e. no Categories). But this made for a
                  long and rather indigestible list of documents, which
                  would have become longer still with additions.

                  In the good old days, a person clicking on "Contents" at
                  the bottom of a page would see all the documents
                  available. If they came through the Front Page of the
                  site, they would see this in the Main Frame, and if they
                  came though a search-engine they would see it without any
                  frames. Doubtless there was a better way of doing this,
                  but at least there were no frames-within-frames.

                  Now however, using modern browsers -- IE7 and Opera (not
                  having tried with the others) -- this no longer works
                  properly if one is not viewing the files from within
                  frames. Maybe TARGET="xxx" confuses the browser when
                  there is no TARGET="xxx".

                  What happens is that the linked file is opened, but the
                  focus remains on the existing file.

                  With Opera, a new tab appears, but most people would not
                  realise this and so would not click on it.

                  With IE7, a new window opens, but this is often hidden
                  behind the existing window.

                  One answer might be to take people to the Frameset page.
                  But is there is some way of preventing those already
                  viewing within frames from picking up another set of
                  frames ?

                  Would this make the site less accessible to the search-
                  engines ?

                  Despite the frames, which it has always had, five years
                  ago 65% of hits were via the search-engines -- although
                  it had never been promoted to them.

                  Now however, perhaps as result of the site's content
                  remaining unchanged for so long, not only has the number
                  of visitors fallen off considerably, but the proportion
                  coming through the search engines has fallen to 35% of
                  the total.

                  Your advice and comments would be much appreciated.

                  Eric Johnston

                  p.s. Of the search criteria, the one that has brought by
                  far the most visitors to my site is the word "torture".
                • Axel Berger
                  ... No, tables are just as bad. Please go and take a look at http://axel.berger-odenthal.de/work/Sudel/Webdesign.htm and the sample page that links to -- and
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 18, 2008
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                    bensbach wrote:
                    > I gather that frames are rather disparaged these days,
                    > but the alternative until something better is widely
                    > adopted would seem to be tables.

                    No, tables are just as bad. Please go and take a look at

                    http://axel.berger-odenthal.de/work/Sudel/Webdesign.htm

                    and the sample page that links to -- and most of all follow the links to
                    those people I have copied all the ideas from. They all give very good
                    and comprehensive explanations.

                    If I cared enough I could write code around the IE glitches, but I
                    don't, and more importantly IE users don't care about quality anyway.
                    All the main things work on all browsers anyway (including, I hope, pure
                    text browsers, Braille readers and speach engines) and that is as it
                    should be.

                    > 3) The content of a table is fixed, while the content of
                    > a frame can be changed with a mouse click

                    I do that with server includes, which are just as simple if not more so.

                    Axel
                  • John Zeman
                    I just took a quick look at the site you mentioned Eric and just off the top of my head if I were you I d consider dropping the frames altogether and using
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 18, 2008
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                      I just took a quick look at the site you mentioned Eric and just off
                      the top of my head if I were you I'd consider dropping the frames
                      altogether and using iframes for the left side links instead. I did a
                      gratis web site like that awhile back in the interests of community
                      spirit, you can see it here if you're interested in the idea:
                      http://barnquilts.com/

                      No frames are involved anywhere and the iframes are only used for the
                      links. From what I've seen on your site only one table would be
                      needed for each page, at least I would use one to control the overall
                      layout presentation.

                      By the way, the link in your message has a typo I assume the real URL is
                      http://www.rainbowends.org/
                      And not
                      http://www.rainbow ends.org/

                      John

                      --- In ntb-html@yahoogroups.com, "bensbach" <ericbj-mmvii@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Some days ago I did a little re-vamping and put some
                      > additional documents on my website, on a server in the
                      > UK. The changes cannot be seen here in Thailand. Going
                      > on past experience it will take about a week for the
                      > changes to become visible. Have been told that websites
                      > are cached on servers around the world and these are only
                      > "refreshed" every so often. (?) Anyway, I cannot yet see
                      > what bugs the site may have, or even if it is there at
                      > all.
                      > Frustrating !
                      >
                      > The site, www.rainbow ends.org uses two vertical frames:
                      > a narrow left-hand one to list content and to the right
                      > of that the document being viewed.
                      >
                      > I gather that frames are rather disparaged these days,
                      > but the alternative until something better is widely
                      > adopted would seem to be tables.
                      >
                      > The problem with tables is:
                      >
                      > 1) I do not have time to go manually updating large
                      > numbers of files every time the Contents changes
                      > (optimistically, I hope to do this more often in future,
                      > the site having been almost unchanged in seven years)
                      >
                      > 2) I do not have any programming skills to automate the
                      > task.
                      >
                      > 3) The content of a table is fixed, while the content of
                      > a frame can be changed with a mouse click
                      >
                      > At the foot of each document there is a link which now
                      > goes to a Categories Page which links to several Contents
                      > Pages. Each of the latter lists files that can be clicked
                      > on and brought up in the Main Frame.
                      >
                      > Previously there was just a single Contents Page, listing
                      > all documents (i.e. no Categories). But this made for a
                      > long and rather indigestible list of documents, which
                      > would have become longer still with additions.
                      >
                      > In the good old days, a person clicking on "Contents" at
                      > the bottom of a page would see all the documents
                      > available. If they came through the Front Page of the
                      > site, they would see this in the Main Frame, and if they
                      > came though a search-engine they would see it without any
                      > frames. Doubtless there was a better way of doing this,
                      > but at least there were no frames-within-frames.
                      >
                      > Now however, using modern browsers -- IE7 and Opera (not
                      > having tried with the others) -- this no longer works
                      > properly if one is not viewing the files from within
                      > frames. Maybe TARGET="xxx" confuses the browser when
                      > there is no TARGET="xxx".
                      >
                      > What happens is that the linked file is opened, but the
                      > focus remains on the existing file.
                      >
                      > With Opera, a new tab appears, but most people would not
                      > realise this and so would not click on it.
                      >
                      > With IE7, a new window opens, but this is often hidden
                      > behind the existing window.
                      >
                      > One answer might be to take people to the Frameset page.
                      > But is there is some way of preventing those already
                      > viewing within frames from picking up another set of
                      > frames ?
                      >
                      > Would this make the site less accessible to the search-
                      > engines ?
                      >
                      > Despite the frames, which it has always had, five years
                      > ago 65% of hits were via the search-engines -- although
                      > it had never been promoted to them.
                      >
                      > Now however, perhaps as result of the site's content
                      > remaining unchanged for so long, not only has the number
                      > of visitors fallen off considerably, but the proportion
                      > coming through the search engines has fallen to 35% of
                      > the total.
                      >
                      > Your advice and comments would be much appreciated.
                      >
                      > Eric Johnston
                      >
                      > p.s. Of the search criteria, the one that has brought by
                      > far the most visitors to my site is the word "torture".
                      >
                    • loro
                      ... Have you tried to disable your ISPs proxy (if that s what it is about)? You do it in the browser settings. Otherwise, try to use a proxy located somewhere
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 19, 2008
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                        bensbach wrote:
                        >Have been told that websites are cached on servers around the world
                        >and these are only
                        > "refreshed" every so often. (?) Anyway, I cannot yet see
                        > what bugs the site may have, or even if it is there at
                        > all.
                        > Frustrating !

                        Have you tried to disable your ISPs proxy (if that's what it is
                        about)? You do it in the browser settings. Otherwise, try to use a
                        proxy located somewhere else in the world. The cache that's bothering
                        you should see it as a new URL then, and it won't have it cached. The
                        first one I found with Google. Just type your URL in the box.
                        <http://www.zend2.com/>

                        >1) I do not have time to go manually updating large
                        > numbers of files every time the Contents changes
                        > (optimistically, I hope to do this more often in future,
                        > the site having been almost unchanged in seven years)

                        If that's why you use frames, tables isn't the solution. SSI (Server
                        Side Includes) is. It isn't a programming language, more of a server
                        feature. Special tags in the HTML get replaced with the content of a
                        file before the server sends the page to the browser.

                        An example.
                        <!--#include virtual="/path/to/menu.txt" -->

                        Then you put all the code for the menu in the file menu.txt and it
                        will appear everywhere you put the above tag. Easy-peasy.

                        The same thing can be done with PHP and other real programming
                        languages, but SSI is easy and available on most servers.

                        Lotta
                      • Dave
                        Hi just went to this site it is fine http://www.rainbowends.org/cadre.htm two frames just the way it should be?? THANKYOU DAVE M ... From: bensbach
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 19, 2008
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                          Hi
                          just went to this site it is fine
                          http://www.rainbowends.org/cadre.htm two frames just the way it should be??
                          THANKYOU DAVE M

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "bensbach" <ericbj-mmvii@...>
                          To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 1:52 AM
                          Subject: [NH] Frames


                          >
                          > Some days ago I did a little re-vamping and put some
                          > additional documents on my website, on a server in the
                          > UK. The changes cannot be seen here in Thailand. Going
                          > on past experience it will take about a week for the
                          > changes to become visible. Have been told that websites
                          > are cached on servers around the world and these are only
                          > "refreshed" every so often. (?) Anyway, I cannot yet see
                          > what bugs the site may have, or even if it is there at
                          > all.
                          > Frustrating !
                          >
                          > The site, www.rainbow ends.org uses two vertical frames:
                          > a narrow left-hand one to list content and to the right
                          > of that the document being viewed.
                          >
                          > I gather that frames are rather disparaged these days,
                          > but the alternative until something better is widely
                          > adopted would seem to be tables.
                          >
                          > The problem with tables is:
                          >
                          > 1) I do not have time to go manually updating large
                          > numbers of files every time the Contents changes
                          > (optimistically, I hope to do this more often in future,
                          > the site having been almost unchanged in seven years)
                          >
                          > 2) I do not have any programming skills to automate the
                          > task.
                          >
                          > 3) The content of a table is fixed, while the content of
                          > a frame can be changed with a mouse click
                          >
                          > At the foot of each document there is a link which now
                          > goes to a Categories Page which links to several Contents
                          > Pages. Each of the latter lists files that can be clicked
                          > on and brought up in the Main Frame.
                          >
                          > Previously there was just a single Contents Page, listing
                          > all documents (i.e. no Categories). But this made for a
                          > long and rather indigestible list of documents, which
                          > would have become longer still with additions.
                          >
                          > In the good old days, a person clicking on "Contents" at
                          > the bottom of a page would see all the documents
                          > available. If they came through the Front Page of the
                          > site, they would see this in the Main Frame, and if they
                          > came though a search-engine they would see it without any
                          > frames. Doubtless there was a better way of doing this,
                          > but at least there were no frames-within-frames.
                          >
                          > Now however, using modern browsers -- IE7 and Opera (not
                          > having tried with the others) -- this no longer works
                          > properly if one is not viewing the files from within
                          > frames. Maybe TARGET="xxx" confuses the browser when
                          > there is no TARGET="xxx".
                          >
                          > What happens is that the linked file is opened, but the
                          > focus remains on the existing file.
                          >
                          > With Opera, a new tab appears, but most people would not
                          > realise this and so would not click on it.
                          >
                          > With IE7, a new window opens, but this is often hidden
                          > behind the existing window.
                          >
                          > One answer might be to take people to the Frameset page.
                          > But is there is some way of preventing those already
                          > viewing within frames from picking up another set of
                          > frames ?
                          >
                          > Would this make the site less accessible to the search-
                          > engines ?
                          >
                          > Despite the frames, which it has always had, five years
                          > ago 65% of hits were via the search-engines -- although
                          > it had never been promoted to them.
                          >
                          > Now however, perhaps as result of the site's content
                          > remaining unchanged for so long, not only has the number
                          > of visitors fallen off considerably, but the proportion
                          > coming through the search engines has fallen to 35% of
                          > the total.
                          >
                          > Your advice and comments would be much appreciated.
                          >
                          > Eric Johnston
                          >
                          > p.s. Of the search criteria, the one that has brought by
                          > far the most visitors to my site is the word "torture".
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > NoteTab site: http://www.notetab.com/
                          > Fookes Software site: http://www.fookes.com/
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • bensbach
                          VERY MANY THANKS for all that information from you all. I have downloaded and saved pages from the links you provided and hope to find time to study the
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jan 19, 2008
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                            VERY MANY THANKS for all that information from
                            you all.

                            I have downloaded and saved pages from the
                            links you provided and hope to find time to
                            study the alternatives to frames.

                            > bensbach wrote:
                            > > Have been told that websites are cached on
                            > > servers around the world and these are only
                            > > "refreshed" every so often. (?) Anyway, I
                            > > cannot yet see what bugs the site may have, or
                            > > even if it is there at all.
                            > > Frustrating !
                            >
                            > Have you tried to disable your ISPs proxy (if
                            > that's what it is about)? You do it in the
                            > browser settings. Otherwise, try to use a proxy
                            > located somewhere else in the world. The cache
                            > that's bothering you should see it as a new URL
                            > then, and it won't have it cached. The first
                            > one I found with Google. Just type your URL in
                            > the box.
                            > <http://www.zend2.com/>

                            Lotta,
                            I have not been able to find where to disable my
                            ISP's proxy and have searched unsucessfully in
                            help under "cache" and "fournisseur d'accès" (I
                            have French versions of Opera and IE7).

                            When I request a previously existing file, I
                            see the old version which was changed nearly a
                            week ago now. When I give the URL of a new
                            file, I get a "404: not found" response. I do
                            not have an ISP in the ordinary sense, here in
                            Thailand, as my connection is via a GPRS modem
                            using AIS's mobile 'phone network.
                            (For example, they have no SMTP server. I have
                            to configure my e-mail client to use the server
                            of one or other of several ISPs to which I am
                            not subscribed, such as loxinfo.com or
                            cscoms.com. And that works over here, but I
                            don't think it would with European ISPs!)

                            I wish my updated site to be visible over here
                            not only so as to see if things work alright
                            (such as did I get my relative addresses right?
                            -- been a long time since I previously wrote
                            web-pages) but also so that others can see it.
                            Little point in giving people in this part of
                            the world the URL of a document if they can't
                            then find it.

                            I have tried using the Google cache, but the
                            results are the same. Ditto with all the other
                            proxies, except one which did not have the site.

                            If you are not seeing on the Front Page the
                            photos of Burma's three top ruling generals,
                            you are not seeing the updated site,
                            www.rainbowends.org

                            Regards,
                            Eric Johnston
                          • loro
                            ... From what you say, it doesn t sound like this is your problem, but for the record... If you haven t configured Opera to use a proxy, then I guess it
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jan 20, 2008
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                              bensbach wrote:
                              > I have not been able to find where to disable my
                              > ISP's proxy and have searched unsucessfully in
                              > help under "cache" and "fournisseur d'accès" (I
                              > have French versions of Opera and IE7).

                              From what you say, it doesn't sound like this is your problem, but
                              for the record...
                              If you haven't configured Opera to use a proxy, then I guess it
                              doesn't. But sometimes ISP's who make you install their services from
                              a CD automatically configure IE to use their proxy.
                              In IE it's here.
                              Tools | Internet Options | Connections | LAN | Proxy server
                              If you use dial-up it's somewhere similar. In Opera it's here.
                              http://www.opera.com/support/search/view/332/



                              > If you are not seeing on the Front Page the
                              > photos of Burma's three top ruling generals,
                              > you are not seeing the updated site,
                              > www.rainbowends.org

                              Nope, I see no photos at all and I have never visited your site
                              before. Are you absolutely sure the new files overwrote the old ones?
                              Have you downloaded for example index.html with FTP and checked it
                              really is the new file? I have heard that web hosts sometimes use
                              some kind of caching on the server, but I'd guess that's very
                              unusual. Have something like this happened before?

                              Lotta
                            • Axel Berger
                              ... In that case it can t be a proxy cache problem. Are you sure it is not your server at fault here? ... I don t -- so it definitely is your server that does
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jan 20, 2008
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                                bensbach wrote:
                                > When I give the URL of a new
                                > file, I get a "404: not found" response.

                                In that case it can't be a proxy cache problem. Are you sure it is not
                                your server at fault here?

                                > If you are not seeing on the Front Page the
                                > photos of Burma's three top ruling generals,
                                > you are not seeing the updated site,

                                I don't -- so it definitely is your server that does not update.
                                Is it possible that you don't FTP directly into your webspace but send
                                updates somewhere that someone has to insert manually and that they take
                                their time?

                                Axel
                              • bensbach
                                ... The site always had two frames. The question is this: Does index.html show you three portait photos of Burmese generals ? And do the frames it brings up
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jan 20, 2008
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                                  > Hi
                                  > just went to this site it is fine
                                  > http://www.rainbowends.org/cadre.htm two frames
                                  > just the way it should be??
                                  > THANKYOU DAVE M

                                  The site always had two frames. The question
                                  is this:

                                  Does index.html show you three portait photos
                                  of Burmese generals ?

                                  And do the frames it brings up show you, in the
                                  righthand one, a text in English?

                                  If not, you are seeing my 7-year old site.

                                  > > If you are not seeing on the Front Page the
                                  > > photos of Burma's three top ruling generals,
                                  > > you are not seeing the updated site,
                                  >
                                  > I don't -- so it definitely is your server that
                                  > does not update.
                                  > Is it possible that you don't FTP directly into
                                  > your webspace but send updates somewhere that
                                  > someone has to insert manually and that they
                                  > take their time?
                                  >
                                  > Axel

                                  Thanks.

                                  I'll get on to the company that is hosting my
                                  site, www.skymarket.co.uk

                                  When I first tried to update my site Sunday a
                                  week ago, I was unable to do so: the FTP server
                                  didn't recognise my login details. I checked
                                  them and they were correct. It turned out the
                                  company had lost my login!

                                  After they gave me a new ID and password
                                  everything went smoothly, at least as far as
                                  concerns the uploading to the FTP server.

                                  The log file showed everything was OK.

                                  Moreover in the past week, since then, I have
                                  added new files and modified others by
                                  synchronising with the server. And the
                                  synchronising process has indicated that all
                                  the other files were on the server.

                                  Maybe someone at the hosting company must
                                  manually transfer the files from the FTP server
                                  to the HTTP server? That is something I am
                                  totally ignorant about.

                                  I do remember that years ago when I uploaded
                                  the odd file from France the changes were
                                  visible within hours, but from Thailand it took
                                  about a week for the changes to become visible.

                                  But if no-one is seeing the new site, there
                                  must be something drastically wrong.

                                  Thanks again.

                                  Eric Johnston
                                • Axel Berger
                                  ... This is not as it should be. When I upload I can see the changes right away and so can the W3C validator. If it were not so, how could I ever debug? In
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jan 20, 2008
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                                    bensbach wrote:
                                    > I do remember that years ago when I uploaded
                                    > the odd file from France the changes were
                                    > visible within hours, but from Thailand it took
                                    > about a week for the changes to become visible.

                                    This is not as it should be. When I upload I can see the changes right
                                    away and so can the W3C validator. If it were not so, how could I ever
                                    debug? In very rare cases my own browser cache jumps in and hides
                                    changes, but that only happens with stylesheets or scripts, never with
                                    the site itself.

                                    Axel
                                  • bensbach
                                    I have been in contact with my website hosting company s technical support, but up to now the mystery of where my uploaded files can be remains unresolved, as
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jan 21, 2008
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                                      I have been in contact with my website hosting
                                      company's technical support, but up to now the
                                      mystery of where my uploaded files can be
                                      remains unresolved, as the hosting company,
                                      skymarket.co.uk cannot find them on its
                                      servers. But my FTP client can see them.

                                      I give below the exchange of messages.

                                      Anyone any suggestions?

                                      ME:
                                      After the small problem with logging in to the
                                      FTP server was resolved I successfully uploaded
                                      my new files, on Tuesday 15th January. The log
                                      file showed this was accomplished successfully.
                                      Since then I have uploaded new and modified
                                      files by synchronisation with the FTP server.
                                      The synchronisation process has shown that the
                                      previously uploaded files are present on the
                                      server.
                                      However I am not seeing the new site in my
                                      browsers.
                                      [...]

                                      HOST:
                                      Which domain are you having issues with?

                                      ME:
                                      www.rainbowends.org
                                      This is my only domain.

                                      HOST:
                                      I have looked at that hosting and it was last
                                      updated in 2003.
                                      Can you confirm the FTP information you are
                                      using. Host, user and pass please.

                                      ME:
                                      I have been using as my "FTP Neighbourhood":
                                      www.rainbowends.org and my user i/d and
                                      password are as given to me by you, as below.

                                      HOST:
                                      I have logged into FTP using that information
                                      and I see the same files as before, the ones
                                      that haven't been updated since 2003.
                                      The problem appears to be in your uploading
                                      process somewhere, as your new files are not
                                      being uploaded.

                                      ME:
                                      My new files must be on your server somewhere,
                                      surely?
                                      Please see below.
                                      I have connected using this time a different
                                      FTP client, SmartFTP instead of that included
                                      with HotMetal Pro v.6.
                                      It sees all the new files and folders. When I
                                      cut the Internet connection it sees them no
                                      longer so it cannot be seeing something on my
                                      computer. It must be on the web at
                                      212.84.161.99. Is that right?
                                      ________________________________
                                      [22:40:54] SmartFTP v2.5.1008.27
                                      [22:40:55] Resolving host name "www.rainbowends.org"
                                      [22:40:57] Connecting to 212.84.161.99 Port: 21
                                      [22:40:57] Connected to www.rainbowends.org.
                                      [22:41:03] 220 ProFTPD 1.2.10 Server (Cougar FTP
                                      Service) [212.84.161.99]
                                      [22:41:03] USER rainbowe
                                      [22:41:05] 331 Password required for rainbowe.
                                      [22:41:05] PASS (hidden)
                                      [22:41:06] 230 User rainbowe logged in.
                                      [22:41:06] SYST
                                      [22:41:07] 215 UNIX Type: L8
                                      [22:41:07] Detected Server Type: UNIX
                                      [22:41:07] FEAT
                                      [22:41:08] 211-Features:
                                      [22:41:08] MDTM
                                      [22:41:10] REST STREAM
                                      [22:41:10] SIZE
                                      [22:41:10] 211 End
                                      [22:41:10] PWD
                                      [22:41:12] 257 "/" is current directory.
                                      [22:41:12] CWD www.rainbowends.org
                                      [22:41:14] 250 CWD command successful
                                      [22:41:14] PWD
                                      [22:41:17] 257 "/www.rainbowends.org" is current directory.
                                      [22:41:17] TYPE A
                                      [22:41:19] 200 Type set to A
                                      [22:41:19] PASV
                                      [22:41:20] 227 Entering Passive Mode (212,84,161,99,226,215).
                                      [22:41:20] Opening data connection to 212.84.161.99 Port: 58071
                                      [22:41:20] LIST -aL
                                      [22:41:22] 150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for file list
                                      [22:41:22] 1379 bytes transferred. (1,69 Ko/s) (796 ms)
                                      [22:41:23] 226 Transfer complete.
                                      [22:41:53] NOOP
                                      [22:41:57] 200 NOOP command successful
                                      [22:42:27] NOOP
                                      [22:42:29] 200 NOOP command successful
                                      [22:42:59] NOOP
                                      [22:43:01] 200 NOOP command successful
                                      [22:43:32] NOOP
                                      [22:43:35] 200 NOOP command successful
                                      [22:43:40] CWD /www.rainbowends.org/mmviii
                                      [22:43:43] 250 CWD command successful
                                      [22:43:43] PWD
                                      [22:43:46] 257 "/www.rainbowends.org/mmviii" is current directory.
                                      [22:43:46] PASV
                                      [22:43:48] 227 Entering Passive Mode (212,84,161,99,227,88).
                                      [22:43:48] Opening data connection to 212.84.161.99 Port: 58200
                                      [22:43:48] LIST -aL
                                      [22:43:55] 150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for file list
                                      [22:43:55] 1350 bytes transferred. (394 octets/s) (00:00:03)
                                      [22:43:58] 226 Transfer complete.
                                      [22:44:28] NOOP
                                      [22:44:32] 200 NOOP command successful
                                      [22:44:46] Une connexion établie a été abandonnée par un logiciel de
                                      votre ordinateur hôte.
                                      [22:44:46] Server closed connection




                                      --- In ntb-html@yahoogroups.com, Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > bensbach wrote:
                                      > > I do remember that years ago when I uploaded
                                      > > the odd file from France the changes were
                                      > > visible within hours, but from Thailand it took
                                      > > about a week for the changes to become visible.
                                      >
                                      > This is not as it should be. When I upload I can see the changes
                                      right
                                      > away and so can the W3C validator. If it were not so, how could I
                                      ever
                                      > debug? In very rare cases my own browser cache jumps in and hides
                                      > changes, but that only happens with stylesheets or scripts, never
                                      with
                                      > the site itself.
                                      >
                                      > Axel
                                      >
                                    • bensbach
                                      The website hosters have found MY mistake. I had uploaded not only the files intended for the website but also the folder they are contained in. The name of
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jan 21, 2008
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                                        The website hosters have found MY mistake.
                                        I had uploaded not only the files intended
                                        for the website but also the folder they
                                        are contained in. The name of that folder
                                        is www.rainbowends.org so the mistake was
                                        not obvious at first site.

                                        My apologies for troubling you all.

                                        Eric Johnston


                                        --- In ntb-html@yahoogroups.com, "bensbach" <ericbj-mmvii@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I have been in contact with my website hosting
                                        > company's technical support, but up to now the
                                        > mystery of where my uploaded files can be
                                        > remains unresolved, as the hosting company,
                                        > skymarket.co.uk cannot find them on its
                                        > servers. But my FTP client can see them.
                                        >
                                        > I give below the exchange of messages.
                                        >
                                        > Anyone any suggestions?
                                      • Axel Berger
                                        ... Using FTP: Can you see the old files, those that are displayed through HTTP, in the self-same directory. If so you uploadd to the right place. Is your
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jan 21, 2008
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                                          bensbach wrote:
                                          > Anyone any suggestions?

                                          Using FTP: Can you see the old files, those that are displayed through
                                          HTTP, in the self-same directory. If so you uploadd to the right place.

                                          Is your capitalization correct for all the new file names? And have you
                                          made sure that none of them contains any accented French letters that
                                          are not part of standard US 7-bit ASCII?

                                          Axel
                                        • Axel Berger
                                          ... No problem, glad it s solved. N.B: I recommend the Totalcommander for FTP (among very many other things). It makes things like that very easy to spot. Axel
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jan 21, 2008
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                                            bensbach wrote:
                                            > My apologies for troubling you all.

                                            No problem, glad it's solved.
                                            N.B: I recommend the Totalcommander for FTP (among very many other
                                            things). It makes things like that very easy to spot.

                                            Axel
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