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[NH] Re: To capitalise or not to...

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  • Glenn Dixon
    Hi Chris, That s probably because most of the clips were submitted by individual NoteTab users independently. Personally, I have just recently gone through and
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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      Hi Chris,

      That's probably because most of the clips were submitted by individual
      NoteTab users independently.

      Personally, I have just recently gone through and deleted several libraries
      that I was not using due to duplications or what I call 'poor' clips. For
      example, a clip that merely inserts one or two tags isn't that helpful to
      me......it's often easier to just type them! However, a clip that truly
      harnesses the power of the clip language will generally prompt me for the
      most commonly used options that go with that tag. Plus, I take my 'most
      used' clips of all types and put them in one "My Clipbook" entry (cause I
      *hate* having to switch back and forth between clip libraries) :o)

      >Hello Everyone
      > - and thanks very much to Jody for setting up this group.
      >
      >One thing that bothers me (only a little) is how inconsistent the Note Tab
      Libraries are. Sometimes the HTML tags are capitals, sometimes not, numbers
      or values may be in quotes, or not. What is the wisdom on this? Does it
      really matter if we capitalise or leave out the quote marks (") in HTML? And
      probably not a viable thought: Is there a case for asking Notetabbers as a
      group to decide on a format?
      >
      >Best wishes
      >Chris
      >
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    • Nicole Simon
      ... My main points to criticize: - Clips don t use my marked text - clips add parts of the tags which are not filed if I want no alignment, there should be no
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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        Glenn Dixon wrote:
        > Personally, I have just recently gone through and deleted several libraries
        > that I was not using due to duplications or what I call 'poor' clips.

        My main points to criticize:

        - Clips don't use my marked text
        - clips add parts of the tags which are not filed
        if I want no alignment, there should be no align="" in the result.
        if empty, it should be left out
        - inconsistent namening.
        I expect Bold to be under Bold and not 'mark text bold'
        if it is named bold, I can jump quickly to this via
        pressing the key b.
        - Mixing HTML-Basics with Java/Javascript/ASP and Active X.
        If I want HTML.clbs, I want HTML-

        Most of the time I use Leanhtml (very nice structured) and Html extreme.

        Nicole


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      • Glenn Dixon
        um, to more specifically answer your question, I do not believe that capitalization matters in HTML tags, but in certain instances the ( ) quote marks do
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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          um, to more specifically answer your question, I do not believe that
          capitalization matters in HTML tags, but in certain instances the (") quote
          marks do indeed matter.....

          >Hello Everyone
          > - and thanks very much to Jody for setting up this group.
          >
          >One thing that bothers me (only a little) is how inconsistent the Note Tab
          Libraries are. Sometimes the HTML tags are capitals, sometimes not, numbers
          or values may be in quotes, or not. What is the wisdom on this? Does it
          really matter if we capitalise or leave out the quote marks (") in HTML? And
          probably not a viable thought: Is there a case for asking Notetabbers as a
          group to decide on a format?
          >
          >Best wishes
          >Chris
          >
          >
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        • Glenn Dixon
          Hi Nicole! :o) ... I agree! ... wow, I didn t realize this was a clip feature! What version added this capability? ... hmmm.......I don t think I have seen
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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            Hi Nicole! :o)

            >My main points to criticize:
            >
            >- Clips don't use my marked text
            >- clips add parts of the tags which are not filed
            > if I want no alignment, there should be no align="" in the result.
            > if empty, it should be left out

            I agree!

            >- inconsistent namening.
            > I expect Bold to be under Bold and not 'mark text bold'
            > if it is named bold, I can jump quickly to this via
            > pressing the key b.

            wow, I didn't realize this was a clip feature! What version added this
            capability?

            >Most of the time I use Leanhtml (very nice structured) and Html extreme.

            hmmm.......I don't think I have seen those.......looks like I need to visit
            the Libraries web page again!

            Glenn Dixon
            glenn@...
            http://thedixons.net



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          • Raymond Fitzgerald
            Hi Glenn, ... The editor clipbook was introduced with v2.0 in Jan 97 and the in-context clipbook, which also auto-scrolls, came out in Jun 97 with v3.0. I
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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              Hi Glenn,

              >> if it is named bold, I can jump quickly to this via
              >> pressing the key b.
              >
              >wow, I didn't realize this was a clip feature! What version added this
              >capability?

              The editor clipbook was introduced with v2.0 in Jan '97 and the in-context
              clipbook, which also auto-scrolls, came out in Jun '97 with v3.0. I *think*
              these components had the auto-scrolling feature from the beginning.

              Cheers,
              Ray

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            • Jody
              Hi Ray, Glenn, and Ni , ... I m sure Ni will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe she was talking about jumping around in Clipbooks. If the clipbook is
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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                Hi Ray, Glenn, and Ni',

                >>> if it is named bold, I can jump quickly to this via
                >>> pressing the key b.

                > I *think* these components had the auto-scrolling feature from
                > the beginning.

                I'm sure Ni' will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe she was
                talking about jumping around in Clipbooks. If the clipbook is
                focused you can press the start of a letter and the focus will
                move to the next header with that letter. It is unlike the
                dialogs and the Library window though that have the feature to
                find the second letter after the first is typed. Hmmm? Having a
                hard time getting that out. If "b" is pressed the clip Bold will
                be focused if next in line. However, if "o" is pressed would
                find Open, and not stay on Bold. It does not use look ahead ...
                whatever in other words.

                You can use that in Clips as well, something like:

                ^!Keyboard Shift+F4 Shift+F4 Down Down b

                I use numbers to jump from the top of a number of my Libraries to
                the section I want and have a Jump to Top clip with the
                corresponding number in front. I saves me a lot of time.

                ^!KeyBoard Shift+F4 Shift+F4 Shift+End 3
                ...
                3 Jump to Top
                H=; htm to otl
                ...

                Bye for now,
                Jody Adair
                Prov. 3:5-7; 4:23

                http://www.sureword.com/sojourner
                http://www.sureword.com/kjb1611
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              • Nicole Simon
                ... Ack. Not the one you get when you ve pressed esc. ... Ack. But if you have these four entries: Bold Better Blue Very blue Better go where no man has gone
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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                  Jody wrote:
                  > I'm sure Ni' will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe she was
                  > talking about jumping around in Clipbooks.

                  Ack. Not the one you get when you've pressed esc.

                  > hard time getting that out. If "b" is pressed the clip Bold will
                  > be focused if next in line. However, if "o" is pressed would
                  > find Open, and not stay on Bold.

                  Ack. But if you have these four entries:
                  Bold
                  Better Blue
                  Very blue
                  Better go where no man has gone before..

                  Activating the clb via click into the clbwindows and pressing b three times
                  lets you get to 'Better go where no man has gone before..'

                  So I espect 'comment' to be reachable through pressing c several times an I
                  like the T to get to the table things.

                  Nicole

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                • Jody
                  Hi Nicole ... All your post was true and I like my tags upper too. I use to use lower, but switched about a year ago, hence another reason for some of my
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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                    Hi Nicole

                    > I like the T to get to the table things.

                    All your post was true and I like my tags upper too. I use to
                    use lower, but switched about a year ago, hence another reason
                    for some of my older ones still having lower. I have been
                    changing them on the fly as I run into them 'cause I'm too lazy
                    to find the clip I have around somewhere for it in storage.

                    Yeah, I know I could do a S&R on the tags pretty quick and be
                    done with it... time............ :(

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                  • Grey Cat
                    ... From: Sometimes the HTML tags are capitals, sometimes not, numbers or values may be in quotes, or not. What is the
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: <ChrisPye@...>
                      Sometimes the HTML tags are capitals, sometimes not, numbers or values may
                      be in quotes, or not. What is the wisdom on this? Does it really matter if
                      we capitalise or leave out the quote marks (") in HTML?

                      As I understand it, it does not matter whether tags are capitolized or not.
                      Some of us learned one way, some the other. My thinking is that caps make it
                      easier to sort the tags out of the text on the page, but I realize that it's
                      just my personal choice.

                      Quotation marks are an entirely different question and *YES* it is extremely
                      important that variables be in quotes for those tags which require quotes!
                      Without the quotation marks, the tag option will not occur! I'm afraid that
                      the reason that the quote requirement differs from one tag to another is the
                      fault of HTML and browser designers/programmers!

                      And probably not a viable thought: Is there a case for asking Notetabbers as
                      a group to decide on a format?
                      >

                      Several of the HTML libraries are available with either caps or not. What
                      *I* like most about NTP is that it doesn't *tell* me how I should enter my
                      tags, it just does them the way I choose! I think it would be absolutely
                      terrible for us to "get together and decide" and then more or less force
                      everyone to go along with it.

                      I believe you can even edit tags in your favorite library if you want to
                      change case!

                      Hey! just try shouting at FrontPage over how it chooses to enter tags!!!

                      Cat


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                    • Glenn Dixon
                      well, I guess I m just very unobservant! I ve had NoteTab since it was a $10 piece of shareware ... version 1 something I think......I just never tried the
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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                        well, I guess I'm just very unobservant! I've had NoteTab since it was a
                        $10 piece of shareware ... version 1 something I think......I just never
                        tried the mnemonic jump thing on any clip view window before.....

                        one question.....if I am typing in a document window, what's the fastest way
                        to shift the focus back to the clip window so I can type 'b' and move right
                        to Bold? Is there a keystroke combination for this?

                        >Hi Glenn,
                        >
                        >>> if it is named bold, I can jump quickly to this via
                        >>> pressing the key b.
                        >>
                        >>wow, I didn't realize this was a clip feature! What version added this
                        >>capability?
                        >
                        >The editor clipbook was introduced with v2.0 in Jan '97 and the in-context
                        >clipbook, which also auto-scrolls, came out in Jun '97 with v3.0. I *think*
                        >these components had the auto-scrolling feature from the beginning.
                        >
                        >Cheers,
                        >Ray
                        >
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                      • Glenn Dixon
                        ... FrontPage???.......uh-oh, don t get me started!! *LOL* Just for kicks, I ll give an example of how I want HTML tags to pop up in NoteTab clips. For
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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                          <snip>

                          >I believe you can even edit tags in your favorite library if you want to
                          >change case!
                          >
                          >Hey! just try shouting at FrontPage over how it chooses to enter tags!!!
                          >
                          >Cat

                          FrontPage???.......uh-oh, don't get me started!! *LOL*

                          Just for kicks, I'll give an example of how I want HTML tags to pop up in
                          NoteTab clips. For instance, if I want to insert an image into an HTML page
                          I want the clip to prompt me for file name, Height and/or Width, Alt=,
                          border, etc. Of course, we each have our own preferences so I doubt there
                          could ever be a 'standard' NoteTab clip structure or syntax.....


                          Glenn Dixon
                          glenn@...
                          http://thedixons.net



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                        • Raymond Fitzgerald
                          Hi Glenn, ... way ... Try Shift+F4 to switch to the clipbook window (and Ctrl+G to switch back to the document). But it may be easier and faster to use the
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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                            Hi Glenn,

                            >one question.....if I am typing in a document window, what's the fastest
                            way
                            >to shift the focus back to the clip window so I can type 'b' and move right
                            >to Bold? Is there a keystroke combination for this?

                            Try Shift+F4 to switch to the clipbook window (and Ctrl+G to switch back to
                            the document). But it may be easier and faster to use the in-context
                            clipbook (ESC). That way you never leave your document. But autoscroll works
                            a little differently. The clipbook window understands just the first letter
                            you key, so, for example, typing "bb" would jump you from "bold" to "break"
                            and then typing "a" will take you to "anchor." The in-context clipbook
                            reads every letter you type to find just one clip. So "b" for "bold, "br"
                            will take you to "break," and "bb" won't do anything.

                            Cheers,
                            Ray

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                          • Raymond Fitzgerald
                            Hi all, ... HTML? Personally, I don t quote attribute values when it s not mandatory because hitting that quote key is too much work and it adds to the file
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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                              Hi all,

                              Chris wrote:
                              >Does it really matter if we capitalise or leave out the quote marks (") in
                              HTML?

                              Personally, I don't quote attribute values when it's not mandatory because
                              hitting that quote key is too much work and it adds to the file size. I
                              follow the basic rule of thumb of all numbers (width=600) or all letters
                              (valign=top) OK to not quote. But quote mixed (size="+1",
                              bgcolor="#000000").

                              This is from the W3C's HTML 4.0 specs
                              (http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/html40.txt):

                              In certain cases, authors may specify the value of an attribute without any
                              quotation marks. The attribute value may only contain letters (a-z and A-Z),
                              digits (0-9), hyphens (ASCII decimal 45), and periods (ASCII decimal 46). We
                              recommend using quotation marks even when it is possible to eliminate them.
                              Attribute names are always case-insensitive. Attribute values are generally
                              case-insensitive. The definition of each attribute in the reference manual
                              indicates whether its value is case-insensitive.
                              Cheers,
                              Ray Fitz

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                            • Kay Roath
                              06/21/1999 9:02 AM Glenn Dixon wrote ... Besides jumping to thr clip area or using In-Context or F2, there s now the HTML-ar Library. To get inserted
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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                                06/21/1999 9:02 AM Glenn Dixon wrote
                                > one question.....if I am typing in a document window, what's the fastest way
                                > to shift the focus back to the clip window so I can type 'b' and move right
                                > to Bold? Is there a keystroke combination for this?

                                Besides jumping to thr clip area or using In-Context or F2,
                                there's now the HTML-ar Library. To get <b></b> inserted
                                into the document, you would type <b followed by a space
                                (check the About clip for other keys that work also). If
                                you have text that you want surrounded by <b></b>,
                                highlight the text and press Escape then <b then Enter.

                                Of course, you need to have auto replace turned on for
                                things to work as I've described in my mostly lower case
                                way:)

                                --- Grandma Kay ---
                                Introduction to NoteTab Clip Programming
                                http://notetab.kay.net



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                              • Rod Davies
                                I feel Clip libraries are best seen as samples or examples . They are offered to the Note Tab community as a way for sharing what has proved useful to an
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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                                  I feel Clip libraries are best seen as "samples" or "examples". They are
                                  offered to the Note Tab community as a way for sharing what has proved
                                  useful to an individual, (and free of charge too!). Therefore the
                                  inconsistency.. but when you think about it, consistency is not what clips
                                  are about really... and the USP of Note Tab is that you can customise it to
                                  work the way you want, for a trade off in learning curves....

                                  The key is to put all the clips you feel are useful for you in your own
                                  personal library(ies), edit them if necessary, and away you go... My tip is
                                  to choose an existing library which is close to what you want, review and
                                  edit if necessary each clip, and then copy clips you like from other
                                  libraries into it, again editing as you go, It could take as little as 30
                                  minutes to an afternoon.... It takes a small investment of time for a
                                  highly personal and customised solution.

                                  I am forever grateful to those who upload their clip libraries as I didn't
                                  have to start from scratch. But it would be almost impossible for someone's
                                  customised solution to match exactly another person's needs.

                                  Changing all tags in a clip library to upper or lower case is a 2 minute
                                  job, I am sure, once you know...

                                  And I'm pretty sure there is a menu item or clip which does it
                                  automatically. ..Though I'm not sure where it is (:-)!

                                  But I guess my main point is that Clips are not part of NT per se but like
                                  add-ons or "macro's" which extend functionality and customization.





                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: <ChrisPye@...>
                                  To: <ntb-html@...>
                                  Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 8:23 PM
                                  Subject: [NH] To capitalise or not to...


                                  > Hello Everyone
                                  > - and thanks very much to Jody for setting up this group.
                                  >
                                  > One thing that bothers me (only a little) is how inconsistent the Note Tab
                                  Libraries are. Sometimes the HTML tags are capitals, sometimes not, numbers
                                  or values may be in quotes, or not. What is the wisdom on this? Does it
                                  really matter if we capitalise or leave out the quote marks (") in HTML? And
                                  probably not a viable thought: Is there a case for asking Notetabbers as a
                                  group to decide on a format?
                                  >
                                  > Best wishes
                                  > Chris
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > eGroups Spotlight:
                                  > "Lightning Strike Survivor List" - on-line support group for lightning
                                  strike
                                  > survivors and their families. http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/111
                                  >
                                  >
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                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


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                                • Nicole Simon
                                  Rod Davies wrote: [Rod, please don t put a fullqoute after your message] ... JAp. But it s nice if you give the author of the clip a tip what you have missed
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jun 23, 1999
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                                    Rod Davies wrote:
                                    [Rod, please don't put a fullqoute after your message]

                                    > The key is to put all the clips you feel are useful for you in your own
                                    > personal library(ies), edit them if necessary, and away you go...


                                    JAp. But it's nice if you give the author of the clip a tip what you have
                                    missed and what you would have prefered. This way, the author can decide
                                    wether to take this suggestion into the library or not.

                                    Why should you do so?
                                    Because the next time a new version of your best liked library comes out,
                                    you have to do your changes again. And again.

                                    > But I guess my main point is that Clips are not part of NT per se but like
                                    > add-ons or "macro's" which extend functionality and customization.

                                    Oh, there are clips - but you can't include all cliplibraries which are
                                    available on the website. :o)
                                    Nicole

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