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New CSS libraries (was RE: [NH] .css, text-align: center;)

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  • Eric G.V. Fookes
    Hi everyone, ... I would love to distribute NoteTab with such libraries. But I m not a CSS specialist, nor do I have the time to develop CSS libraries as an
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 20, 2000
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      Hi everyone,

      >I don't blame you for doing things your way. I'm sure most people use your
      >approach when creating HTML. The real problem is that currently NOTETAB
      >encourages it, as all the wizards and clips are set up with old HTML3.2
      >assumptions built into them. They need a radical re-write to encourage the
      >different approach that the use of stylesheets imply.
      >
      >Now if NOTETAB came supplied with some sample style sheets and the clips
      >needed
      >to link to and place the required "class=xxxx" in your HTML instead of all
      >that
      >deprecated BGCOLOR and LINK stuff that gets inserted to files at the moment we
      >really would have a ground breaking HTML authors tool on our hands.

      I would love to distribute NoteTab with such libraries. But I'm not a CSS
      specialist, nor do I have the time to develop CSS libraries as an
      alternative to the HTML 3.2 versions currently used. I would be very happy
      if someone proficient in CSS and Clip development would take up the
      challenge and develop good CSS libraries for distribution with NoteTab. I
      can't give monetary compensation for this work, but I can promote your
      services or Web site in the library and the NoteTab Help file.

      Anyone interested?


      Regards,
      Eric Fookes
      -----------
      NoteTab v4.83 available from
      http://www.notetab.com and http://www.notetab.ch








      ...
    • Stephen Riddle
      Hi Eric, I m interested, but seem slow at the moment. I ve been taking about a month or two just to write a good, easy to use, all-browser, any object,
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 20, 2000
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        Hi Eric,
        I'm interested, but seem slow at the moment. I've been taking about a month or two
        just to write a good, easy to use, all-browser, any object, embedding clip.
        After I finish this, if no one else has taken up the job, I will.
        Thanks for all you've done,
        Stephen
      • Jody
        Hi Stephen, Greg, and Others, ... Eric stated, I can t give monetary compensation for this work, but I can promote your services or Web site in the library
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 20, 2000
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          Hi Stephen, Greg, and Others,

          >I'm interested, but seem slow at the moment. I've been taking
          >about a month or two just to write a good, easy to use, all-
          >browser, any object, embedding clip. After I finish this, if no
          >one else has taken up the job, I will.

          Eric stated, "I can't give monetary compensation for this work,
          but I can promote your services or Web site in the library and
          the NoteTab Help file."

          I don't think Eric would have a problem with whichever CSS pro
          took on the challenge and made a professional working Library in
          giving them a "bundle" CD with his software, or custom made to
          order. :) Eric would have to give the OK of course.

          (I don't know what happened to the [NH] prefix on this thread. I
          suspect eGroups sees it in the "(was" and does not prefix the
          whole subject because of it.)

          Happy HTML'n!
          Jody

          http://www.sureword.com/notetab

          The NoteTab and Html List...
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        • Greg Chapman
          Hi Stephen, ... I m no clip writer, so I m not sure I can help with the real graft, but what I had in mind should be fairly simple (Famous Last Words! :-) I
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 24, 2000
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            Hi Stephen,

            > I'm interested, but seem slow at the moment. I've been taking about
            > a month or two
            > just to write a good, easy to use, all-browser, any object, embedding clip.
            > After I finish this, if no one else has taken up the job, I will.

            I'm no clip writer, so I'm not sure I can help with the real graft, but what I
            had in mind should be fairly simple (Famous Last Words! :-)

            I guess the first thing to decide is on a couple of sample style sheets to
            supply with NoteTab and then ensure that all existing "New Web Page"
            clips/wizards include the code to add a <LINK rel="stylesheet"
            href="name-me.css" type="text/css"> line in the code.

            The obvious sheet candidates seem to me to be duplicates of those supplied with
            TopStyle and the one to be found on the W3C site off:
            http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2 (I was e-mailed a copy and think it came from
            http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-CSS2-19980512/sample.html but I could be wrong).

            After that it should be a simple matter of copying code in the existing HTML
            (renamed HTML32) library into a new one called HTML4 and making the necessary
            deletions to any clips that insert deprecated attributes.

            I bet I haven't thought this through properly, and there's a lot more to it than
            that! :-)

            Greg
          • Grant
            Hi Steven and Greg Before you embark on such an endeavour I suggest you look at the existing css libraries. There are several including mine which is a
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 24, 2000
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              Hi Steven and Greg

              Before you embark on such an endeavour I suggest you look at the existing
              css libraries.

              There are several including mine which is a complete css2 library covering
              every css2 property and their possible values.

              The library now incorporates a css colour picker
              http://www.markup.co.nz/colorpicker/back_to_font.htm
              which I developed after a query from this list.
              I reworked this colour picker to incorporate other commonly used css
              properties so it now can be used as a fast 'wysiwyg' css editor. I have had
              some very positive feedback for this so I might do some more work on it.
              Using this is all you most likely all you need for basic css work. I've even
              had comments that it would give bradsoft's topstyle a run for it's money.

              "Just wanted to say this is an excellent use of code which I think you could
              sell and call TopStyle 2.0 [http://www.bradsoft.com/topstyle/ ] although I
              think they have just released the new version. Version 1.5 came with
              Homesite & Dreamweaver but your CSS selector is nice and simple."

              I don't now about this but It's certainly faster and easier to use. It's not
              designed as a complete css editor but a quick and easy way to set some basic
              style properties, however used in conjunction with the css library, I think
              it is a pretty complete solution.

              The library can be found at
              http://www.markup.co.nz/colorPicker/xhtml-css.zip

              Any suggested improvements welcome.


              > I'm no clip writer, so I'm not sure I can help with the real
              > graft, but what I
              > had in mind should be fairly simple (Famous Last Words! :-)
              >
              > I guess the first thing to decide is on a couple of sample style sheets to
              > supply with Notetab and then ensure that all existing "New Web Page"
              > clips/wizards include the code to add a <LINK rel="stylesheet"
              > href="name-me.css" type="text/css"> line in the code.

              Ok I suggest you take a look at my xhtml library
              http://www.markup.co.nz/xhtml/xhtmllibrary.htm

              It's a pretty full on library base on the strict xhtml dtd and incorparates
              the css library.
              The library contains some interesting stuff to ease the work with css.
              from the help file for the library
              "
              Fetching class attribute values.
              You use the class attribute to set style values for elements. What you get
              when setting the class attribute with this library is a selectable list of
              all the class selectors for the chosen ELEMENT. These class selectors are
              found in the head of the document or an external stylesheets for the
              document and a clip subroutine will automatically find them for you. The
              style selectors it presents are "ELEMENT.CLASS" or ".CLASS". I think you
              will find this is very handy when developing with xhtml and stylesheets

              Has a button to generate a link to an existing stylesheet.

              Open css file button; This button opens all the linked stylesheets to the
              document.
              If you have installed my css2 library you can open this library by holding
              the CTRL key down when pressing this button.
              "

              > After that it should be a simple matter of copying code in the
              > existing HTML
              > (renamed HTML32) library into a new one called HTML4 and making
              > the necessary
              > deletions to any clips that insert deprecated attributes.

              > I bet I haven't thought this through properly, and there's a lot
              > more to it than

              You have'nt for you will end up with what is pejoratively call "tag soup".
              As I suggested in an earlier post what is needed is a DTD approach.

              A library for
              html401 transitional
              html401 strict
              html401 frameset
              xhtml 1 transitional
              xhtml 1 strict
              xhtml 1 frameset

              Now I don't want to beat my own drum too much but I have done this with
              previous libraries.
              My html 4 library contained every possible attribute and values for each
              element in the strict html dtd. This was my first big library and was only
              possible when notetab clip syntax included arrays.
              Every element in the dtd can have a set of attributes (checkbox) and every
              attribute can have a set of values which can be chosen or entered (selection
              list or masked input control)

              However I have stopped working on the library,
              I had problems with Notetabs 'onload' method when I tried to get the
              libraries talking to each other and basically decided to simplify things.

              When the next version of notetab4.8 came out, I reworked this library to
              become a xhtml library and simplified the css2 library and this is what I
              now use.

              My working version is a bit different from the one posted on the web.If you
              want to take a look post to me post to me privately emerge@... and I
              will send.
              I'm pretty busy now, untill xmas but Ill see if I can rework it for public
              use sometime. Any feedback welome.
            • André
              ... FAR OUT!! (excuse me for yelling, couldn t resist :-) ) Kudos André
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 25, 2000
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                --- In ntb-html@egroups.com, "Grant" <emerge@p...> wrote:
                > The library now incorporates a css colour picker
                > http://www.markup.co.nz/colorpicker/back_to_font.htm
                > which I developed after a query from this list.

                FAR OUT!! (excuse me for yelling, couldn't resist :-) )

                Kudos

                André
              • Stephen Riddle
                Hi Greg,Grant, et cetera, I had not even thought of working with the existing New Web Page stuff. ... AMEN! ... Grant is right, there is already good stuff
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 27, 2000
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                  Hi Greg,Grant, et cetera,
                  I had not even thought of working with the existing "New Web Page" stuff.

                  Greg Chapman wrote:

                  >
                  > I'm no clip writer, so I'm not sure I can help with the real graft, but what I
                  > had in mind should be fairly simple (Famous Last Words! :-)

                  AMEN!

                  >
                  >
                  > I guess the first thing to decide is on a couple of sample style sheets to
                  > supply with NoteTab and then ensure that all existing "New Web Page"
                  > clips/wizards include the code to add a <LINK rel="stylesheet"
                  > href="name-me.css" type="text/css"> line in the code.
                  >
                  > The obvious sheet candidates seem to me to be duplicates of those supplied with
                  > TopStyle and the one to be found on the W3C site off:
                  > http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2 (I was e-mailed a copy and think it came from
                  > http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-CSS2-19980512/sample.html but I could be wrong).

                  Grant is right, there is already good stuff on CSS in the current NoteTab site. I
                  have not checked his color picker out recently and am getting it confused in my mind
                  with another one. Also NoteTab using Ctrl + F5 has a good color picker built in
                  which I did not even know about til recently.
                  The most important thing I think would be that the library be able to produce all
                  the style sheet (external, in head, and within an HTML element) rules that conform
                  to either CSS or CSS2 standards. It would have to be pretty exhaustively complete.
                  It being easy to use would be great. I have a good clip library on my computer
                  written by Stephen W. Cote. It is possible, that it is all that is necessary, or he
                  would not mind friendly additions to it. I also have a library called mystylesheet
                  which is pretty complete, but I don't think it produces good rules. I can't
                  remember if I wrote it or not. It kind of looks like my style of coding, but if I
                  wrote it it is more than a year old.
                  Any way, I want to finish the embedding monster before getting any more irons in the
                  fire, and the CSS library might well have been wrapped up by a real clip whiz by
                  then.
                  Take Care,
                  Stephen
                • Greg Chapman
                  ... Ah well! At least there was one (good?) idea in there! :-) ... I suppose I was thinking of some external utility (Like HTML Tidy) to do that kind of
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 28, 2000
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                    > Hi Greg,Grant, et cetera,
                    > I had not even thought of working with the existing "New Web Page" stuff.

                    Ah well! At least there was one (good?) idea in there! :-)

                    > The most important thing I think would be that the library be able to
                    > produce all the style sheet (external, in head, and within an HTML
                    > element) rules that conform to either CSS or CSS2 standards.
                    > It would have to be pretty exhaustively complete.

                    I suppose I was thinking of some external utility (Like HTML Tidy) to do that
                    kind of checking. That way the clip coding need only be fairly crude.

                    There's obviously more resources out there already which I wasn't aware of.
                    I'll have to take a look at Grant's stuff!

                    So much to do ... so little time!

                    Greg
                  • Greg Chapman
                    Hi Grant, I finally found the time to visit: http://www.markup.co.nz/xhtml/xhtmllibrary.htm I got a bit confused there, because at the top of the page it says:
                    Message 9 of 13 , Dec 1, 2000
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                      Hi Grant,

                      I finally found the time to visit:
                      http://www.markup.co.nz/xhtml/xhtmllibrary.htm

                      I got a bit confused there, because at the top of the page it says:

                      ==========
                      The latest version of the xhtml library can be found at
                      markup.co.nz/xhtml/libraries/xhtml.zip
                      ==========

                      but the link gives a 404! (A little investigation reveals the actual target has
                      a spurious /MarkUp/ folder in the URL!)

                      However, I didn't discover that until I'd used the other link you mentioned in
                      your earlier post:

                      http://www.markup.co.nz/colorPicker/xhtml-css.zip

                      and successfully download that library.

                      I ended up with two xtml-css.clb files, one of which is considerably bigger than
                      the other. I haven't worked out why yet, but I guess that much of material in
                      the /colorpicker/ version has been moved into the other file in the main library
                      with the additional clipbars.

                      I've spent about 10 minutes so far playing and turned up a couple of things I
                      didn't expect.

                      When I click on the "quickstart" toolbar button the DTD line is split over
                      several lines with CRs which didn't "look pretty" to me, but appears acceptable
                      in content.

                      The next thing I noticed was that it didn't automatically give an HTM file
                      extension on my file and consequentially didn't generate the normal tag
                      highlighting. Perhaps you have NOTETAB set to generate an .htm extension by
                      default so this problem didn't emerge?

                      However, it all looks a mighty impressive piece of work which I shall examine in
                      more detail as soon as I have a decent amount of time free.

                      [Hint to Eric:] Take a look at this one! As it stands it looks at least 98%
                      acceptable for inclusion in the standard NoteTab release!

                      Greg
                    • Grant
                      ... Thanks corrected this ... My understanding is that whitespace is ignored. besides the DTD line is usually written like this. I think the original xhtml
                      Message 10 of 13 , Dec 2, 2000
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                        > but the link gives a 404! (A little investigation reveals the
                        > actual target has
                        > a spurious /MarkUp/ folder in the URL!)

                        Thanks corrected this

                        > I've spent about 10 minutes so far playing and turned up a couple
                        > of things I
                        > didn't expect.
                        >
                        > When I click on the "quickstart" toolbar button the DTD line is split over
                        > several lines with CRs which didn't "look pretty" to me, but
                        > appears acceptable
                        > in content.

                        My understanding is that whitespace is ignored.
                        besides the DTD line is usually written like this.

                        I think the original xhtml library had

                        <!DOCTYPE html
                        PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
                        "DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">

                        which I copied from the Recomendation .

                        However Jelks pointed out this is wrong (even though it is in the
                        recomendation) and should contain the full url.

                        <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
                        "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">

                        If you are going to use your xhtml documents with an xml parser this needs
                        to be corrected. The latest library includes this change. Easily done with a
                        notetab global s&r.


                        > The next thing I noticed was that it didn't automatically give an HTM file
                        > extension on my file and consequentially didn't generate the normal tag
                        > highlighting. Perhaps you have NOTETAB set to generate an .htm
                        > extension by
                        > default so this problem didn't emerge?

                        Actually this can be done by a clip but Jody pointed out , when i did this
                        once that it was bad manners to change someone elses default extension via a
                        clip.
                        Talk of Jody hows the work on those 16x16 bmp icons going.

                        Ive updated the library a little and posted at.
                        http://www.markup.co.nz/xhtml/libraries/xhtml.zip

                        Apart from the css colorpicker, it now contains an 'elementCanContain'
                        button.
                        Place the cursor on any opening tag , press the button and it will tell you
                        what valid elements can be contained.
                        eg with the cursor on <ul>
                        Press the canContain button >> an info box will present this information
                        "
                        The elements that can be contained by <ul> are
                        li
                        "
                        or
                        with the cursor on <em>. Press the canContain button >> an info box will
                        present this information
                        "
                        The elements that can be contained by <em> are
                        a br span bdo object img map tt i b big small em strong dfn
                        code q sub sup samp kbd var cite abbr acronym input select
                        textarea label button ins del script noscript
                        "
                        Any queries about the library please contact me privately.
                        emerge@...
                        I'm always open to improvements, suggestions , correcting errors etc so
                        don't be afraid to give me feedback.
                      • Jody
                        Hi Grant, ... Did I say that? :) I suppose I did say something to that effect, but I would add if I did not say it back then that I am all for getting the
                        Message 11 of 13 , Dec 2, 2000
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                          Hi Grant,

                          >> Perhaps you have NOTETAB set to generate an .htm extension by
                          >> default so this problem didn't emerge?
                          >
                          >Actually this can be done by a clip but Jody pointed out , when i
                          >did this once that it was bad manners to change someone elses
                          >default extension via a clip.

                          Did I say that? :) I suppose I did say something to that effect,
                          but I would add if I did not say it back then that I am all for
                          getting the users settings first, change them to what you need,
                          and then change them back to the original at the end of the Clip.

                          >Talk of Jody hows the work on those 16x16 bmp icons going.

                          OffTopic:

                          Uh, was I suppose to be making some? Please refresh my memory. I
                          do forget about things at times. OH, you mean changing the
                          location of NoteTab's icons to a sub-folder underneath Libraries?
                          If so, the Clip does what it is suppose to, but the problem is,
                          NoteTab cannot view them from the Button Properties... dialog.
                          It is no big deal for me since I am pretty much setup, but if I
                          want to test new icons, I just do it in Libraries till I get the
                          ones I want, run my button cleaner to remove the ones that are
                          not on the Clipbar to a backup folder, and then run the transfer
                          clip to move the new icons to the Libraries sub-folder.

                          Happy HTML'n!
                          Jody

                          http://www.notetab.net

                          The NoteTab and Html List...
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                        • Greg Chapman
                          Hi Grant, ... I wasn t thinking about altering user _defaults_. It s just that Eric s New Web Page clip in the standard HTML library causes the file
                          Message 12 of 13 , Dec 4, 2000
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                            Hi Grant,

                            > >Actually this can be done by a clip but Jody pointed out , when i
                            > >did this once that it was bad manners to change someone elses
                            > >default extension via a clip.
                            >
                            > Did I say that? :) I suppose I did say something to that effect,
                            > but I would add if I did not say it back then that I am all for
                            > getting the users settings first, change them to what you need,
                            > and then change them back to the original at the end of the Clip.

                            I wasn't thinking about altering user _defaults_. It's just that Eric's "New
                            Web Page" clip in the standard HTML library causes the file extension for that
                            _document only_ to change to .htm, so neatly switching on the syntax
                            highlighting. I just expected the same approach in your clip.

                            Greg
                          • Jody
                            Hi Greg, ... Eric uses a template for that and the .htm setting is set on the first line of the HTML.tpl file: = DocTemplate ClipCode Home%0.3d.htm I
                            Message 13 of 13 , Dec 4, 2000
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                              Hi Greg,

                              >> I am all for getting the users settings first, change them to
                              >> what you need, and then change them back to the original at the
                              >> end of the Clip.
                              >
                              >I wasn't thinking about altering user _defaults_. It's just that
                              >Eric's "New Web Page" clip in the standard HTML library causes
                              >the file extension for that _document only_ to change to .htm, so
                              >neatly switching on the syntax highlighting. I just expected the
                              >same approach in your clip.

                              Eric uses a template for that and the ".htm" setting is set on
                              the first line of the HTML.tpl file:

                              = DocTemplate ClipCode "Home%0.3d.htm"

                              I normally just use a ^!Save:As myself. I have never used templates
                              other than to play with them. My Clips are my templates the way I
                              see it. :) I know some folk are sold on templates and they do have
                              an advantage or two from what I heard (and forgot).

                              Happy HTML'n!
                              Jody

                              http://www.notetab.net

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