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6783Re: [NH] Working with frame sets...

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  • Greg Chapman
    Feb 28, 2010
      Hi Joe,

      On 01 Mar 10 01:31 "jmgledhill" <jmgledhill@...> said:
      > I ran your code as suggested and it worked fine! That is what I
      > want and I assume that the left side will not scroll where the right
      > side will?

      So you didn't do what the first paragraph suggested and reduce the
      size of your window or add more content to the page? :-)

      > I got great help on the frames and it is working well to so why do
      > you feel it is an obsolete technique?

      The specs for HTML 4.01 were published in December 1999, so have been
      around for over ten years. The W3C would have expected all new sites
      constructed since then to use the STRICT doctype. That specification
      bans the use of FRAMESET, FRAME and NOFRAME, so you cannot produce a
      site that uses them and have code that will pass validation.

      The TRANSITIONAL doctype that you are currently using does allow them,
      but was only intended to be used for updating an existing site. Ten
      years on and a complete rebuild of the type you are contemplating
      should prompt you to use best practice coding techniques.

      While it's true that most modern browsers are exceedingly forgving in
      handling invalid and elderly code, so that many people will say "Why
      bother?", but a further reason for using the best modern pratice is to
      allow for new technologies that have developed since 1999. These days
      more many people are using PDAs Smartphones, netbooks, etc, to access
      the web and some of these devices do not handle old coding techniques,
      like frames, as well as a browser on a desktop computer.

      > Others seem to thing what I have done so far is OK.

      Others have, perhaps, chosen simply to answer your questions rather
      than open a can of worms by advising on the best approach. Answering a
      question in the form that you know a questioner will be able to
      implement is less hassle than challenging their whole approach. Who
      can blame them for going for the easy life? :-)

      > I am reading up on div but and I do plan on using the li for the
      > menu items later after I get other stuff fixed in css.

      It's good to know that you are reading up on DIVs. I saw that your
      current site uses a minimal external stylesheet, so I know you know
      how to implement one. Using <divs> and CSS should prove to be a
      trivial bit of new learning but with a fundamental impact on the
      quality of your site building. My demo file used an internal
      stylesheet, but I would expect you to export it as a separate file
      when used in your updated site.

      I am assuming that when you say you are fixing things in CSS you are
      planning to take the opportunity to remove all those BLOCKQUOTE and BR
      tags. You seem to use these elements a lot to produce indentation and
      breaks between paragraphs. I would urge you to use the appropriate <p>
      tags for your body text and use CSS to add any non-standard margins
      where you want them (e.g. add a margin in your CSS for <h1> instead of
      adding a <br>). Use of appropriate tags, can help with search engine

      Now that's probably far more than you wanted to handle, but I think
      will bring your coding quality on in leaps an bounds. :-)

      OK, one more example snippet of code to add to the stylesheet on that
      demo file I posted earlier. Change the h1 styling segment to read:

      #main h1 {
      margin-bottom: 1em;
      margin-top: 0em;
      font-size: 2em;
      font-family: "Times New Roman",Times,serif;
      border: 1px solid #cccccc;
      background-color: #660000;
      padding-top: 0.25em;
      color: white;
      text-align: center;
      padding-bottom: 0.25em;

      There's a lot more there than a bit of bottom margin to replace the
      <br> tag and CSS centering of the heading rather than the HTML
      attribute that you are currently using, but with your current method
      you'd have to go through every page and change the code. With CSS
      every page alters with just the change to the CSS file.

      And that definitely is more than enough for you to chew on! :-)

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