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[Clip] Re: Two Views of the Same File

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  • Sheri
    Far from trying to impress, I hope to spare new users a few real headaches. IMO Keyboard commands should be avoided wherever possible. They are subject to
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 9, 2002
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      Far from trying to impress, I hope to spare new users a few real
      headaches. IMO Keyboard commands should be avoided wherever
      possible. They are subject to misfiring on different machines due to
      timing differences. I would also point out to new users that copying
      the content of an entire file to the clipboard is unnecessary and
      could have deleterious effects, especially when applied to large
      files. At the very least, the clipboard should be cleared after such
      an operation.
    • Jim Hall
      Sheri, ... I commend you for your efforts. ... You certainly have the right to your opinion. Obviously not everyone agrees with all of them. :-) ... All
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 9, 2002
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        Sheri,

        At 06:31 PM 10/9/02 +0000, you wrote:
        >Far from trying to impress, I hope to spare new users a few real
        >headaches.

        I commend you for your efforts.

        >IMO Keyboard commands should be avoided wherever
        >possible.

        You certainly have the right to your opinion.

        Obviously not everyone agrees with all of them. :-)

        >They are subject to misfiring on different machines due to
        >timing differences.

        All machines have their own unique timing problems and they affect far more
        than just keyboard commands.
        It is just something that has to be dealt with when it is a problem
        regardless of the command involved.

        > I would also point out to new users that copying
        >the content of an entire file to the clipboard is unnecessary and
        >could have deleterious effects, especially when applied to large
        >files.

        The Clipboard is just a temporary file itself, as long as you have adequate
        disk space it isn't a problem if you can afford the time it takes to create
        the file. Most systems today have the capability to handle it in a timely
        fashion and most users are not editing extremely large text files.

        As you have suggested there is more than one way to do things and each
        person develops their own preferences and concerns based on their specific
        needs.

        In my 35 years of teaching students about Computers and Programming, I have
        found that a strong foundation in the basics is the best tool they can have
        for understanding and using the more complex commands and developing their
        own programming style and techniques.

        > At the very least, the clipboard should be cleared after such
        >an operation.

        Since I wrote this Clip to be able to copy and paste from the top of the
        file to the bottom of the same file, the clipboard is cleared per se with
        the first copy-paste I do.

        If you don't like this Clip or it won't do what you need, you are free to
        either not use it or to modify it to suit your own preferences and needs.

        I like it and it works just fine for me and what I use it for, just the way
        it is.

        Regards,

        Jim
      • Julie
        Hi Sheri, ... My biggest problem occurs when using the keyboard shortcuts with the Keyboard commands instead of the Menu options, or just using some of the
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 9, 2002
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          Hi Sheri,

          >If you wanted, you could update it to use a few of the newer Clip
          >commands. Substituting the following between your two Save commands
          >avoids the Keyboard commands and doesn't disturb the clipboard.

          My biggest problem occurs when using the keyboard shortcuts with the
          Keyboard commands instead of the Menu options, or just using some of the
          keyboard shortcuts assigned in the program. When I use shift+ctrl+P to turn
          on/off the pasteboard feature PaintShop Pro opens. Shift+ctrl+Q (Unquote
          Text) opens up QuickVerse :-). Oh well. For me the keyboard's quicker than
          the mouse!

          I do enjoy seeing how Clips can be accomplished in different ways :-).

          Julie,
          keyboard advocate <G>
        • Sheri
          Hi Julie, ... LOL! Are you listening Jim? Not only are Keyboard commands prone to timing issues, but also to user customization issues. How well are clips
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 9, 2002
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            Hi Julie,

            --- In ntb-clips@y..., Julie <jlg61@m...> wrote:
            > My biggest problem occurs when using the keyboard shortcuts
            > with the Keyboard commands instead of the Menu options, or
            > just using some of the keyboard shortcuts assigned in the
            > program. When I use shift+ctrl+P to turn on/off the
            > pasteboard feature PaintShop Pro opens. Shift+ctrl+Q
            > (Unquote Text) opens up QuickVerse :-). Oh well. For me the
            > keyboard's quicker than the mouse!

            LOL! Are you listening Jim? Not only are Keyboard commands prone to
            timing issues, but also to user customization issues. How well are
            clips dependent on set keystrokes to a Menu command going to work if
            the user has reassigned that key to a different command via
            Shortcuts.dat or Windows shortcuts? This may not matter for your own
            private clips, but its a big compatibility issue for shared clips.

            > I do enjoy seeing how Clips can be accomplished in different
            > ways :-).

            Thanks Julie <g>

            Regards,
            Sheri
          • Sheri
            ... ??? Text on the Windows clipboard resides in memory, separate from your pasted file buffer. It can be pasted again and again until it is cleared. It stays
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 9, 2002
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              --- In ntb-clips@y..., Jim Hall <jehall@j...> wrote:
              > Since I wrote this Clip to be able to copy and paste from
              > the top of the file to the bottom of the same file, the
              > clipboard is cleared per se with the first copy-paste I do.

              ???

              Text on the Windows clipboard resides in memory, separate from your
              pasted file buffer. It can be pasted again and again until it is
              cleared. It stays on the clipboard even after Notetab is closed
              unless you arbitrarily use it for copying some other text there. And
              if a large amount of text is on it, it weighs on performance when if
              virtual memory consequently comes into play.

              Regards,
              Sheri
            • Basil Barnes
              Hi: I m an absolute newbie at using Note Tab (although an old hand at using computers), and I m having a little trouble getting started. I have Note Tab Pro,
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 10, 2002
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                Hi:

                I'm an absolute newbie at using Note Tab (although an old hand at using
                computers), and I'm having a little trouble getting started. I have Note
                Tab Pro, and all the talk about clips and so on assume that I know how to
                write a clip, where to put it and even how to activate it.

                Is there a programming manual or something similar available that will take
                somebody such as myself from zero to 100 kmh in 5 seconds? I'm sure that
                once I'm brought up to speed, so to speak, I'll be able to understand what
                everybody is talking about.

                How on earth does one get started?

                Basil Barnes

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              • Sheri
                Hi Basil, You will want to read through the Clip Basics topic in Notetab Main help file as well as all the topics in the separate Clipcode help file (see
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 10, 2002
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                  Hi Basil,

                  You will want to read through the Clip Basics topic in Notetab Main
                  help file as well as all the topics in the separate Clipcode help
                  file (see Help|Help on Clip Programming). I would also advise
                  activating the Clip Assistant in the Quick List (toggle on
                  Tools|Quick List, then select Clip Assistant under Tools|Quick List
                  Properties). This allows you to create clips without knowing the
                  syntax by heart.

                  For answers to your most basic orientation questions, I would suggest
                  you download Jim Hall's Basic Clip Basics (despite my recent
                  disagreements with Jim Hall, I think that's a nice graphical
                  introduction to navigating Clips).

                  http://www.jimbow.com/basicclipbasics.zip

                  Jody Adair's Clip Class is a great tutorial, but I believe it needs
                  to be updated to include the latest commands and functions. In
                  particular, you should be aware that ^!Menu commands now give direct
                  access to some Notetab features which were previously accessible only
                  with ^!Keyboard commands.

                  http://www.notetab.net/zip/clipclass.zip

                  Regards,
                  Sheri
                • Jody
                  Hi Sheri and Jim, In a rush... ^!SetClipboard ^%Empty% should do it. (Or, ^!SaveClipboard/RestoreClipboard ???) Also, in short, I think both of you have valid
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 10, 2002
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                    Hi Sheri and Jim,

                    In a rush... ^!SetClipboard ^%Empty% should do it. (Or,
                    ^!SaveClipboard/RestoreClipboard ???)

                    Also, in short, I think both of you have valid issues overall,
                    especially when Jim mentioned a solid foundation. I've only
                    taught for maybe 5 years in various environments, but do know for
                    sure that the foundation must be built and solid to get a good
                    understand of the rest.

                    Most people that start my ClipClass bail out around lessons 4-5,
                    because from there they can figure out the rest by simply reading
                    Help on Clip programming as needed and going through the index of
                    commands and functions.

                    I also agree with the use of the ^!Keyboard command Sheri, but
                    yet there are times when it is definitely needed as you know
                    already. Like Jim said though, that is not the only issue with
                    timing. The use of ^!FocusApp, ^$GetAppTitle$ ^$SrtCopy(...)$,
                    and more of the related commands/functions definitely have timing
                    issues as you know, but you will also find that that it is a must
                    to use ^!Keyboard and find at times it will interfere with other
                    shortcuts.

                    So much for a short in a rush post... got lots of mail to answer.
                    See ya later... ;)

                    >--- In ntb-clips@y..., Jim Hall <jehall@j...> wrote:
                    >> Since I wrote this Clip to be able to copy and paste from
                    >> the top of the file to the bottom of the same file, the
                    >> clipboard is cleared per se with the first copy-paste I do.
                    >
                    >???
                    >
                    >Text on the Windows clipboard resides in memory, separate from your
                    >pasted file buffer. It can be pasted again and again until it is
                    >cleared. It stays on the clipboard even after Notetab is closed
                    >unless you arbitrarily use it for copying some other text there. And
                    >if a large amount of text is on it, it weighs on performance when if
                    >virtual memory consequently comes into play.


                    Happy Clip'n!
                    Jody

                    http://www.notetab.net

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