Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [Clip] Re: Pre-release of NoteTab 7.0 available

Expand Messages
  • Axel Berger
    ... Which means, more or less, it doesn t really handle UTF-8 at all. The whole point of UTF was and is to escape from the old code-page limits. I do not mind
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 28, 2012
      Eric Fookes wrote:
      > NoteTab will handle UTF-8 text just fine as long as all the characters
      > belong to a single code page.

      Which means, more or less, it doesn't really handle UTF-8 at all. The
      whole point of UTF was and is to escape from the old code-page limits. I
      do not mind NoteTab not being a UTF editor, it fits my needs fine, but
      those half baked pseudo-capabilities really annoy. I may well need to go
      back to version 5.8.

      > converting the current NoteTab
      > version to a Unicode program is a very difficult task.

      Agreed. And at least for me there are far more important things.
      Switching code pages and fonts to go with them would be nice to have. I
      could split texts into smaller parts with only one code page each. Both
      HTML through PHP or SSI and LaTeX through \input{} can easily build the
      complete document from those. Yes UTF would be the more modern and
      possibly better choice, but then either full UTF or nothing, no
      half-baked compromises.

      The worst real limit, after NoteTab has grown from a humble little HTML
      editor of its beginning to the universal tool it now is, is the hard
      coded highlighting.

      > Creating a Notepad clone with full support for Unicode is very easy. It
      > would take me less than 5 minutes to do so. But NoteTab is so much more
      > than that, don't you think?

      That is, more or less, what I'm saying. Keyboard shortcuts for running
      clips, not just menu items, are another desideratum.

      Axel
    • Eric Fookes
      Hi Axel, ... I think this is a slight exaggeration. Having personally analyzed a large number of UTF-8 files, I found that the vast majority could safely be
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 4 2:44 PM
        Hi Axel,

        > Eric Fookes wrote:
        >> NoteTab will handle UTF-8 text just fine as long as all the characters
        >> belong to a single code page.
        >
        > Which means, more or less, it doesn't really handle UTF-8 at all.

        I think this is a slight exaggeration. Having personally analyzed a
        large number of UTF-8 files, I found that the vast majority could safely
        be translated to ANSI and back without any data loss. In other words,
        NoteTab could handle them fine.

        > The
        > whole point of UTF was and is to escape from the old code-page limits.

        You're quite right. But most people create documents that fit nicely
        within the code-page limits. And therefore work fine in NoteTab.

        > I
        > do not mind NoteTab not being a UTF editor, it fits my needs fine, but
        > those half baked pseudo-capabilities really annoy. I may well need to go
        > back to version 5.8.

        Update #3 has a new command-line switch for you to test:
        NotePro.exe \RawUTF8

        It skips the UTF-8 to ANSI conversion. I must admit I haven't had time
        to test it yet.

        > The worst real limit, after NoteTab has grown from a humble little HTML
        > editor of its beginning to the universal tool it now is, is the hard
        > coded highlighting.

        I'm still hoping to add some minor improvements the the HTML
        highlighting before v7 final...

        --
        Regards,

        Eric Fookes
        http://www.fookes.com/
      • Wizcrafts
        ... Eric; I tried the new version with the switch you suggested and found that the line is facing the wrong direction! RawUTF8 should be /RawUTF8 Having
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 5 10:08 AM
          --- In ntb-clips@yahoogroups.com, Eric Fookes <egroups@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Axel,
          >
          > > Eric Fookes wrote:
          > >> NoteTab will handle UTF-8 text just fine as long as all the characters
          > >> belong to a single code page.
          > >
          > > Which means, more or less, it doesn't really handle UTF-8 at all.
          >
          > I think this is a slight exaggeration. Having personally analyzed a
          > large number of UTF-8 files, I found that the vast majority could safely
          > be translated to ANSI and back without any data loss. In other words,
          > NoteTab could handle them fine.
          >
          > > The
          > > whole point of UTF was and is to escape from the old code-page limits.
          >
          > You're quite right. But most people create documents that fit nicely
          > within the code-page limits. And therefore work fine in NoteTab.
          >
          > > I
          > > do not mind NoteTab not being a UTF editor, it fits my needs fine, but
          > > those half baked pseudo-capabilities really annoy. I may well need to go
          > > back to version 5.8.
          >
          > Update #3 has a new command-line switch for you to test:
          > NotePro.exe \RawUTF8
          >
          > It skips the UTF-8 to ANSI conversion. I must admit I haven't had time
          > to test it yet.
          >
          > > The worst real limit, after NoteTab has grown from a humble little HTML
          > > editor of its beginning to the universal tool it now is, is the hard
          > > coded highlighting.
          >
          > I'm still hoping to add some minor improvements the the HTML
          > highlighting before v7 final...
          >
          > --
          > Regards,
          >
          > Eric Fookes
          > http://www.fookes.com/
          >

          Eric;
          I tried the new version with the switch you suggested and found that the line is facing the wrong direction!

          \RawUTF8
          should be
          /RawUTF8

          Having overcome this speedbump, I opened NT 7 b3 using that switch (required granting admin password to change properties of link!) and dropped in the file containing the misspelled V word. The characters displayed in the default settings showed nothing but question marks.

          I played around with different font faces until I discovered that there are just two fonts that do display the letters correctly: Segoe UI and Tahoma.

          Thinking I had found the solution to the codepage problem I opened another file that contains the actual full UTF subjects for several spam messages that decode when opened in an email client. To my dismay, although the characters were displayed more or less the same as NP++, they were not decoded into readable words, which both NP and NP++ rendered correctly.

          This forum does not render the letters correctly, so it's a waste of time pasting them here. If you are interested in seeing the actual text I am referring to, I have taken two screen captures and can send them to you as jpg images. That way I am guaranteed that we both see the same letters.

          FYI: The NP++ program has an Encoding menu item. The setting I had to use to get it to display both the original letters and decoded words, is named "UTF-8 without BOM" and the status bar reads: "ANSI as UTF-8"

          Aside from this encoding problem, I like everything else about the program. I use NT Pro every day for writing and editing HTML, CSS and JS files. It is only for spam filters using strange coding that I had to use a different program.
        • Eric Fookes
          Hi Wizcrafts, ... Sorry about that. It was late and I was very tired. ... But that s absolutely normal if you choose to use the /RawUTF8. The purpose of that
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 16 3:17 AM
            Hi Wizcrafts,

            > I tried the new version with the switch you suggested and found that
            > the line is facing the wrong direction!
            >
            > \RawUTF8 should be /RawUTF8

            Sorry about that. It was late and I was very tired.

            > Thinking I had found the solution to the codepage problem I opened
            > another file that contains the actual full UTF subjects for several
            > spam messages that decode when opened in an email client. To my
            > dismay, although the characters were displayed more or less the same
            > as NP++, they were not decoded into readable words, which both NP and
            > NP++ rendered correctly.

            But that's absolutely normal if you choose to use the /RawUTF8. The
            purpose of that switch is to open and display the file in raw format. If
            I understood correctly, that's precisely what Axel wanted.

            And as I explained in some earlier mails, NP++ and MS Notepad, use a
            Unicode input control. NoteTab, however, uses an ANSI input control.

            The advantage of a Unicode input control is that it can correctly
            display all UTF-8 and Unicode-16 characters. NoteTab can also open UTF-8
            and Unicode-16 files, but will only render all characters correctly if
            they fit within a code page -- this is the case with the vast majority
            of such documents. However, NoteTab is not suited for those few
            documents that have characters spanning over more than one code page.

            The advantage of NoteTab's ANSI input control is that text takes up half
            as much memory space as required by Unicode editors. The other advantage
            is that many intensive text-processing tasks are much faster in NoteTab
            than in a Unicode editor.

            What does this mean? Well, for the vast majority of users (those who do
            not need to edit special Unicode files), NoteTab ensure they have more
            free memory available for other programs -- even when editing a large
            number of big files. And they get things done faster in NoteTab thanks
            to its highly optimized and fast code.

            > Aside from this encoding problem, I like everything else about the
            > program. I use NT Pro every day for writing and editing HTML, CSS and
            > JS files. It is only for spam filters using strange coding that I had
            > to use a different program.

            I understand. And in that case it does make sense to use a Unicode editor.

            --
            Regards,

            Eric Fookes
            http://www.fookes.com/
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.