Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Pre-release of NoteTab 7.0 available

Expand Messages
  • Wizcrafts
    ... version ... Eric; I am a licensed user of NoteTab Pro and have been for years. Today, I tried out the light version to see what has changed (Don t want to
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 22, 2012
      --- In ntb-clips@yahoogroups.com, Eric Fookes <egroups@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi everyone,
      >
      > I'm pleased to announce to you the availability of a pre-release
      version
      > of NoteTab 7.0 -- at last! :)
      >
      > Here's a list of the main changes since version 6.2:
      >


      Eric;
      I am a licensed user of NoteTab Pro and have been for years.

      Today, I tried out the light version to see what has changed (Don't want
      to have to reinstall existing v6.2 Pro). I was very sad to see that
      NoteTab 7 could not display UTF-8 extended and foreign characters at
      all. I write spam filters for MailWasher users and NoteTab still cannot
      work with certain character sets.

      Here is an example of a purposely misspelled spam word which I created a
      filter for. I had to use a different UTF-8 capable text editor to edit
      the files containing this word, because NT 6.2 cannot display these
      characters.
      <code>

      ⋁ἲấġբẚ

      </code>
      Astoundingly, even Windows own Notepad is able to properly display this
      extended characters word. Why is NoteTab unable to do so? Will you be
      adding support for this type of text in the next version, when it goes
      gold?

      Wiz - aka: Wizcrafts



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Piotr
      Hi Wiz, I believe that if you switch the font to a specific regional setting, you will be able to display the characters correctly. This is a less optimum
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 22, 2012
        Hi Wiz,

        I believe that if you switch the font to a specific regional setting, you
        will be able to display the characters correctly.
        This is a less optimum solution compared to a competing product (UE) which
        I also use, but it still works.

        On a side note, I still have some clips written more than 10 years ago :-)
        Computers get recycled, clips stay :-)

        Regards,

        Piotr

        On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Wizcrafts <wizcrafts@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In ntb-clips@yahoogroups.com, Eric Fookes <egroups@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi everyone,
        > >
        > > I'm pleased to announce to you the availability of a pre-release
        > version
        > > of NoteTab 7.0 -- at last! :)
        > >
        > > Here's a list of the main changes since version 6.2:
        > >
        >
        > Eric;
        > I am a licensed user of NoteTab Pro and have been for years.
        >
        > Today, I tried out the light version to see what has changed (Don't want
        > to have to reinstall existing v6.2 Pro). I was very sad to see that
        > NoteTab 7 could not display UTF-8 extended and foreign characters at
        > all. I write spam filters for MailWasher users and NoteTab still cannot
        > work with certain character sets.
        >
        > Here is an example of a purposely misspelled spam word which I created a
        > filter for. I had to use a different UTF-8 capable text editor to edit
        > the files containing this word, because NT 6.2 cannot display these
        > characters.
        > <code>
        >
        > ⋠ἲấġբẚ
        >
        > </code>
        > Astoundingly, even Windows own Notepad is able to properly display this
        > extended characters word. Why is NoteTab unable to do so? Will you be
        > adding support for this type of text in the next version, when it goes
        > gold?
        >
        > Wiz - aka: Wizcrafts
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Axel Berger
        ... Maybe, but if i do that, what is the advantage of UTF-8? I can do that fine with 8-bit characters, that s what these code pages are for. Axel
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 22, 2012
          Piotr wrote:
          > if you switch the font to a specific regional setting,

          Maybe, but if i do that, what is the advantage of UTF-8? I can do that
          fine with 8-bit characters, that's what these code pages are for.

          Axel
        • Eric Fookes
          Hi Wiz, Thanks for your comments. See my reply in context below... ... NoteTab will handle UTF-8 text just fine as long as all the characters belong to a
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 27, 2012
            Hi Wiz,

            Thanks for your comments. See my reply in context below...

            > Today, I tried out the light version to see what has changed (Don't want
            > to have to reinstall existing v6.2 Pro). I was very sad to see that
            > NoteTab 7 could not display UTF-8 extended and foreign characters at
            > all. I write spam filters for MailWasher users and NoteTab still cannot
            > work with certain character sets.

            NoteTab will handle UTF-8 text just fine as long as all the characters
            belong to a single code page. To enable support beyond that requires a
            Unicode editor.

            As I have explained in an earlier email, converting the current NoteTab
            version to a Unicode program is a very difficult task. So much so that
            it is simpler to rewrite a new NoteTab from scratch -- which I have
            done. Unfortunately, it's far from finished and I've had to put
            development on hold for the time being.

            > Astoundingly, even Windows own Notepad is able to properly display this
            > extended characters word. Why is NoteTab unable to do so? Will you be
            > adding support for this type of text in the next version, when it goes
            > gold?

            Creating a Notepad clone with full support for Unicode is very easy. It
            would take me less than 5 minutes to do so. But NoteTab is so much more
            than that, don't you think?

            --
            Regards,

            Eric Fookes
            http://www.fookes.com/
          • Axel Berger
            ... Which means, more or less, it doesn t really handle UTF-8 at all. The whole point of UTF was and is to escape from the old code-page limits. I do not mind
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 28, 2012
              Eric Fookes wrote:
              > NoteTab will handle UTF-8 text just fine as long as all the characters
              > belong to a single code page.

              Which means, more or less, it doesn't really handle UTF-8 at all. The
              whole point of UTF was and is to escape from the old code-page limits. I
              do not mind NoteTab not being a UTF editor, it fits my needs fine, but
              those half baked pseudo-capabilities really annoy. I may well need to go
              back to version 5.8.

              > converting the current NoteTab
              > version to a Unicode program is a very difficult task.

              Agreed. And at least for me there are far more important things.
              Switching code pages and fonts to go with them would be nice to have. I
              could split texts into smaller parts with only one code page each. Both
              HTML through PHP or SSI and LaTeX through \input{} can easily build the
              complete document from those. Yes UTF would be the more modern and
              possibly better choice, but then either full UTF or nothing, no
              half-baked compromises.

              The worst real limit, after NoteTab has grown from a humble little HTML
              editor of its beginning to the universal tool it now is, is the hard
              coded highlighting.

              > Creating a Notepad clone with full support for Unicode is very easy. It
              > would take me less than 5 minutes to do so. But NoteTab is so much more
              > than that, don't you think?

              That is, more or less, what I'm saying. Keyboard shortcuts for running
              clips, not just menu items, are another desideratum.

              Axel
            • Eric Fookes
              Hi Axel, ... I think this is a slight exaggeration. Having personally analyzed a large number of UTF-8 files, I found that the vast majority could safely be
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 4, 2012
                Hi Axel,

                > Eric Fookes wrote:
                >> NoteTab will handle UTF-8 text just fine as long as all the characters
                >> belong to a single code page.
                >
                > Which means, more or less, it doesn't really handle UTF-8 at all.

                I think this is a slight exaggeration. Having personally analyzed a
                large number of UTF-8 files, I found that the vast majority could safely
                be translated to ANSI and back without any data loss. In other words,
                NoteTab could handle them fine.

                > The
                > whole point of UTF was and is to escape from the old code-page limits.

                You're quite right. But most people create documents that fit nicely
                within the code-page limits. And therefore work fine in NoteTab.

                > I
                > do not mind NoteTab not being a UTF editor, it fits my needs fine, but
                > those half baked pseudo-capabilities really annoy. I may well need to go
                > back to version 5.8.

                Update #3 has a new command-line switch for you to test:
                NotePro.exe \RawUTF8

                It skips the UTF-8 to ANSI conversion. I must admit I haven't had time
                to test it yet.

                > The worst real limit, after NoteTab has grown from a humble little HTML
                > editor of its beginning to the universal tool it now is, is the hard
                > coded highlighting.

                I'm still hoping to add some minor improvements the the HTML
                highlighting before v7 final...

                --
                Regards,

                Eric Fookes
                http://www.fookes.com/
              • Wizcrafts
                ... Eric; I tried the new version with the switch you suggested and found that the line is facing the wrong direction! RawUTF8 should be /RawUTF8 Having
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 5, 2012
                  --- In ntb-clips@yahoogroups.com, Eric Fookes <egroups@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Axel,
                  >
                  > > Eric Fookes wrote:
                  > >> NoteTab will handle UTF-8 text just fine as long as all the characters
                  > >> belong to a single code page.
                  > >
                  > > Which means, more or less, it doesn't really handle UTF-8 at all.
                  >
                  > I think this is a slight exaggeration. Having personally analyzed a
                  > large number of UTF-8 files, I found that the vast majority could safely
                  > be translated to ANSI and back without any data loss. In other words,
                  > NoteTab could handle them fine.
                  >
                  > > The
                  > > whole point of UTF was and is to escape from the old code-page limits.
                  >
                  > You're quite right. But most people create documents that fit nicely
                  > within the code-page limits. And therefore work fine in NoteTab.
                  >
                  > > I
                  > > do not mind NoteTab not being a UTF editor, it fits my needs fine, but
                  > > those half baked pseudo-capabilities really annoy. I may well need to go
                  > > back to version 5.8.
                  >
                  > Update #3 has a new command-line switch for you to test:
                  > NotePro.exe \RawUTF8
                  >
                  > It skips the UTF-8 to ANSI conversion. I must admit I haven't had time
                  > to test it yet.
                  >
                  > > The worst real limit, after NoteTab has grown from a humble little HTML
                  > > editor of its beginning to the universal tool it now is, is the hard
                  > > coded highlighting.
                  >
                  > I'm still hoping to add some minor improvements the the HTML
                  > highlighting before v7 final...
                  >
                  > --
                  > Regards,
                  >
                  > Eric Fookes
                  > http://www.fookes.com/
                  >

                  Eric;
                  I tried the new version with the switch you suggested and found that the line is facing the wrong direction!

                  \RawUTF8
                  should be
                  /RawUTF8

                  Having overcome this speedbump, I opened NT 7 b3 using that switch (required granting admin password to change properties of link!) and dropped in the file containing the misspelled V word. The characters displayed in the default settings showed nothing but question marks.

                  I played around with different font faces until I discovered that there are just two fonts that do display the letters correctly: Segoe UI and Tahoma.

                  Thinking I had found the solution to the codepage problem I opened another file that contains the actual full UTF subjects for several spam messages that decode when opened in an email client. To my dismay, although the characters were displayed more or less the same as NP++, they were not decoded into readable words, which both NP and NP++ rendered correctly.

                  This forum does not render the letters correctly, so it's a waste of time pasting them here. If you are interested in seeing the actual text I am referring to, I have taken two screen captures and can send them to you as jpg images. That way I am guaranteed that we both see the same letters.

                  FYI: The NP++ program has an Encoding menu item. The setting I had to use to get it to display both the original letters and decoded words, is named "UTF-8 without BOM" and the status bar reads: "ANSI as UTF-8"

                  Aside from this encoding problem, I like everything else about the program. I use NT Pro every day for writing and editing HTML, CSS and JS files. It is only for spam filters using strange coding that I had to use a different program.
                • Eric Fookes
                  Hi Wizcrafts, ... Sorry about that. It was late and I was very tired. ... But that s absolutely normal if you choose to use the /RawUTF8. The purpose of that
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 16, 2012
                    Hi Wizcrafts,

                    > I tried the new version with the switch you suggested and found that
                    > the line is facing the wrong direction!
                    >
                    > \RawUTF8 should be /RawUTF8

                    Sorry about that. It was late and I was very tired.

                    > Thinking I had found the solution to the codepage problem I opened
                    > another file that contains the actual full UTF subjects for several
                    > spam messages that decode when opened in an email client. To my
                    > dismay, although the characters were displayed more or less the same
                    > as NP++, they were not decoded into readable words, which both NP and
                    > NP++ rendered correctly.

                    But that's absolutely normal if you choose to use the /RawUTF8. The
                    purpose of that switch is to open and display the file in raw format. If
                    I understood correctly, that's precisely what Axel wanted.

                    And as I explained in some earlier mails, NP++ and MS Notepad, use a
                    Unicode input control. NoteTab, however, uses an ANSI input control.

                    The advantage of a Unicode input control is that it can correctly
                    display all UTF-8 and Unicode-16 characters. NoteTab can also open UTF-8
                    and Unicode-16 files, but will only render all characters correctly if
                    they fit within a code page -- this is the case with the vast majority
                    of such documents. However, NoteTab is not suited for those few
                    documents that have characters spanning over more than one code page.

                    The advantage of NoteTab's ANSI input control is that text takes up half
                    as much memory space as required by Unicode editors. The other advantage
                    is that many intensive text-processing tasks are much faster in NoteTab
                    than in a Unicode editor.

                    What does this mean? Well, for the vast majority of users (those who do
                    not need to edit special Unicode files), NoteTab ensure they have more
                    free memory available for other programs -- even when editing a large
                    number of big files. And they get things done faster in NoteTab thanks
                    to its highly optimized and fast code.

                    > Aside from this encoding problem, I like everything else about the
                    > program. I use NT Pro every day for writing and editing HTML, CSS and
                    > JS files. It is only for spam filters using strange coding that I had
                    > to use a different program.

                    I understand. And in that case it does make sense to use a Unicode editor.

                    --
                    Regards,

                    Eric Fookes
                    http://www.fookes.com/
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.