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[Clip] Re: Finding help for an optimal use of NoteTabPro

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  • Eb
    Thanks Axel, I guess I should have asked for the names of the four forms. I can only come up with singular, plural, and posessive . Singular, posessive,
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 3, 2011
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      Thanks Axel,

      I guess I should have asked for the names of the four forms. I can only come up with "singular, plural, and posessive".

      Singular, posessive, plural, ?
      Table, table's, tables,

      Eb


      --- In ntb-clips@yahoogroups.com, Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...> wrote:
      >
      > Eb wrote:
      > > I'd be curious to see the 4 variants for, say, "table".
      >
      > Tisch, Tisches, Tische - three. Actually four different ones are rare
      > (if they exist) because tow tend to be identical, but not always the
      > same two. Compare
      >
      > Tisch, Tisches, Tische, Tisch
      > Mensch, Menschen, Menschen, Menschen
      >
      > In fact this holds true for most languages except English, which is why
      > that is such a good choice for a common second language. In Russian it's
      > not four cases but six.
      >
      > Axel
      >
      > --
      > Dipl.-Ing. F. Axel Berger Tel: +49/ 2174/ 7439 07
      > Johann-Häck-Str. 14 Fax: +49/ 2174/ 7439 68
      > D-51519 Odenthal-Heide eMail: Axel-Berger@...
      > Deutschland (Germany) http://berger-odenthal.de
      >
    • Axel Berger
      ... No, it s all singular. Adding in plural would make them eight. I m neither comfortable with the English nor the German terms, in the Gymnasium (grammar
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 3, 2011
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        Eb wrote:
        > I can only come up with "singular, plural, and posessive".

        No, it's all singular. Adding in plural would make them eight. I'm
        neither comfortable with the English nor the German terms, in the
        Gymnasium (grammar school, not sports stadium) we used the Latin ones:

        Nominativ: Who are you?
        Genitiv: Whose is this purse?
        Dativ: Whom did you give presents to?
        Akkusatitiv: Whom do you dislike too much to give presents to?
        or: Whom would you like to punch on the nose?

        N.B: as you're probably less familiar with the difference between Dativ
        and Akkusativ look at this sentence:

        A gave my son a dog for Christmas.
        A gave a dog my son for Christmas.

        As in German the Dativ (meinem Sohn, einem Hund) and Akkusativ (meinen
        Sohn, einen Hund) forms are different, both word orders can be and are
        used and place the stress on different things. As a general rule while
        english grammar is simpler, English word order is much more strongly
        proscribed than in other languages, although in the case above the
        problem could have been solved by adding a "to" to the second sentence.

        By the way the English have this lovely traditional idiosyncrasy that us
        [sic!] foreigners had to learn: "Who wants to help?" "Me". In every
        other language it would have been "I". Now the Americans don't want to
        speak English any more (actually, contrary to the written form, spoken
        American is already unintelligible to English speakers) but something
        more international. As so often happens they overcompensate and say
        stuff like "They invited my husband and I for dinner." which is complete
        gibberish. Here of course it must be "me", as the question is "whom" not
        "who".

        (Can you tell I really love this stuff? Language is wonderful and bad
        use of it, especially many Americanisms in currrent German, rather
        painful to my ears.)

        Axel

        --
        Dipl.-Ing. F. Axel Berger Tel: +49/ 2174/ 7439 07
        Johann-Häck-Str. 14 Fax: +49/ 2174/ 7439 68
        D-51519 Odenthal-Heide eMail: Axel-Berger@...
        Deutschland (Germany) http://berger-odenthal.de
      • Patrick Forkin
        Good morning, Flo! Following your steps as I have understood them, I arrive at a point where I have 1. A stored MYDIC.txt file. 2. An open but not stored
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 4, 2011
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          Good morning, Flo!

          Following your steps as I have understood them, I arrive at a point where I have
          1. A stored MYDIC.txt file.
          2. An open but not stored document with the suggested text to be translated.
          3. A second opened document, unstored, with the script.

          Please do not think that I am stupid, when I ask where do I go from there.

          When I have done that with your help then I can respond, more intelligently.

          Regards, Patrick.

          -------- Original-Nachricht --------
          > Datum: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 15:55:57 -0000
          > Von: "flo.gehrke" <flo.gehrke@...>
          > An: ntb-clips@yahoogroups.com
          > Betreff: [Clip] Re: Finding help for an optimal use of NoteTabPro

          > --- In ntb-clips@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Forkin" <pm4kin@...> wrote:
          >
          > > I have today decided to buy the product and use it as a base
          > > to publish a description of a model to translate texts I write
          > > in English into German...
          >
          > Hi Patrick,
          >
          > Here's a little "NT Translating Engine"...;-)
          >
          > Take the following list and save it as MYDIC.TXT:
          >
          > beginning|Anfang
          > God|Gott
          > created|schuf
          > heaven|Himmel
          > and|und
          > earth|Erde
          > was|war
          > without|ohne
          > darkness|Finsternis
          > upon|auf
          > face|Angesicht
          > deep|Tiefe
          > Spirit|Geist
          > waters|Wassern
          >
          >
          > (avoid empty line at the end!)
          >
          > Next, take the following text and insert it into an empty document:
          >
          > In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was
          > without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the
          > Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
          >
          > Now start the following clip:
          >
          > ^!SetScreenUpdate Off
          > ^!Toolbar New Document
          > ^!InsertFile ^$GetDocumentPath$MYDIC.TXT
          > ^!Replace "|" >> "^P" AWS
          > ^!SetListDelimiter ^P
          > ^!SetArray %Dic%=^$GetText$
          > ^!Close Discard
          > ^!Set %i%=1
          > ^!Jump 1
          >
          > :Loop
          > ^!Set %Find%=^%Dic^%i%%
          > ^!Inc %i%
          > ^!Set %Repl%=^%Dic^%i%%
          > ^!Replace "^%Find%" >> "^%Repl%" AWS
          > ^!Inc %i%
          > ^!If ^%i% > ^%Dic0% End
          > ^!Goto Loop
          >
          > I hope it's not too bad for the beginning...
          >
          > Regards,
          > Flo
          >
        • Patrick Forkin
          Hallo Axel and other topic mambers! Anyone who had learnt Latin would have also known of the additional case called Ablative, which has long since been
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 4, 2011
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            Hallo Axel and other topic mambers!

            Anyone who had learnt Latin would have also known of the additional case called Ablative, which has long since been dispensed with.

            Taking the example sentence of:

            <nom>A</nom/> <vb>gave</vb> <dat>my son</dat> <acc>a dog</acc>
            <dat>for Christmas</dat.
            <nom>A</nom/> <vb>gave</vb> <acc>a dog</acc> <dat>to my son</dat>
            <dat>for Christmas</dat.

            All of the phrase elements in the English form are the same as in the German form, in thes examples. I, as an English person, who has spent half of his life in Germany, am in the process of creating the dictionary, to translate around the problem of word-roles which the English language cannot address.

            I have taken the route of using tables rather than programmed rules to create the words. The basic 2.000 English words will result in around 30.000 dictionary entries.

            When I am far enough down the road I will explain the model and process in detail. I am at the moment keeping the process close to my chest becaus I wish to publish the model. The created revenue will be put into a fund for children.

            Regards and a Happy New Year, Patrick Forkin.

            -------- Original-Nachricht --------
            > Datum: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 02:41:21 +0100
            > Von: Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...>
            > An: ntb-clips@yahoogroups.com
            > Betreff: Re: [Clip] Re: Finding help for an optimal use of NoteTabPro

            > Eb wrote:
            > > I can only come up with "singular, plural, and posessive".
            >
            > No, it's all singular. Adding in plural would make them eight. I'm
            > neither comfortable with the English nor the German terms, in the
            > Gymnasium (grammar school, not sports stadium) we used the Latin ones:
            >
            > Nominativ: Who are you?
            > Genitiv: Whose is this purse?
            > Dativ: Whom did you give presents to?
            > Akkusatitiv: Whom do you dislike too much to give presents to?
            > or: Whom would you like to punch on the nose?
            >
            > N.B: as you're probably less familiar with the difference between Dativ
            > and Akkusativ look at this sentence:
            >
            > A gave my son a dog for Christmas.
            > A gave a dog my son for Christmas.
            >
            > As in German the Dativ (meinem Sohn, einem Hund) and Akkusativ (meinen
            > Sohn, einen Hund) forms are different, both word orders can be and are
            > used and place the stress on different things. As a general rule while
            > english grammar is simpler, English word order is much more strongly
            > proscribed than in other languages, although in the case above the
            > problem could have been solved by adding a "to" to the second sentence.
            >
            > By the way the English have this lovely traditional idiosyncrasy that us
            > [sic!] foreigners had to learn: "Who wants to help?" "Me". In every
            > other language it would have been "I". Now the Americans don't want to
            > speak English any more (actually, contrary to the written form, spoken
            > American is already unintelligible to English speakers) but something
            > more international. As so often happens they overcompensate and say
            > stuff like "They invited my husband and I for dinner." which is complete
            > gibberish. Here of course it must be "me", as the question is "whom" not
            > "who".
            >
            > (Can you tell I really love this stuff? Language is wonderful and bad
            > use of it, especially many Americanisms in currrent German, rather
            > painful to my ears.)
            >
            > Axel
            >
            > --
            > Dipl.-Ing. F. Axel Berger Tel: +49/ 2174/ 7439 07
            > Johann-Häck-Str. 14 Fax: +49/ 2174/ 7439 68
            > D-51519 Odenthal-Heide eMail: Axel-Berger@...
            > Deutschland (Germany) http://berger-odenthal.de
          • flo.gehrke
            ... Patrick, Regarding... #1: Please note that MYDIC.TXT must be stored in the default directory ... Documents. #3: You have to store that script (or clip in
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 4, 2011
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              --- In ntb-clips@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Forkin" <pm4kin@...> wrote:
              >
              > Good morning, Flo!
              >
              > Following your steps as I have understood them, I arrive at a
              > point where I have
              > 1. A stored MYDIC.txt file.
              > 2. An open but not stored document with the suggested text to
              > be translated.
              > 3. A second opened document, unstored, with the script.
              >
              > Please do not think that I am stupid, when I ask where do I go from there.
              >
              > When I have done that with your help then I can respond, more intelligently.
              >
              > Regards, Patrick.

              Patrick,

              Regarding...

              #1: Please note that MYDIC.TXT must be stored in the default directory ...\Documents.

              #3: You have to store that script (or "clip" in NT-terminology) in a clipbook. For an efficient use of NT you will have to become acquainted with clips anyway. For further details, please have a look at "Help | How to... | Create Clipbook Libraries".

              BTW: Of course, my "engine" wasn't meant for complete translations. It was derived from further developed clips I use for indexing text databases (creating descriptors, thesaurus, stop-words, standardizing terminology etc). Certainly, it could be used for tagging words.

              In my view, the advantage over solutions based on user dictionaries and autoreplace is:

              1. you have a better control of the vocabulary since it is stored in a normal TXT file.

              2. You can use Regular Expressions which offer an approach to dealing with flexion forms, synonyms etc (and even word tagging).

              Regards,
              Flo

              ...with greetings to you from Oberbayern (Upper Bavaria)
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