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Re: [Clip] isnumber function

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  • Larry Hamilton
    ... Lotta, The IsNumber function is a True/False test. Either the selected information is a number or it is not. The Clip Help indicates that it returns 1 for
    Message 1 of 22 , Mar 8, 2006
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      loro wrote:
      > It's odd though. I also feel that what's not numeric should be alpha. And
      > did we figure out why letters, mathematically, are zero? ;-o)
      >
      > Lotta
      Lotta,

      The IsNumber function is a True/False test. Either the selected
      information is a number or it is not. The Clip Help indicates that it
      returns 1 for a number and 0 if it is not. It must assume decimal
      numbers, there is no option to consider Hexadecimal. But octal and
      binary values that have the same characters to represent decimal numbers
      would evaluate to numbers, if there is no character as part of the
      number indicating something other than decimal.

      I have not tested region-specific delimiters for thousands and decimals,
      but it should rely on the regional settings to determine if certain
      values are numbers or not. If it does not fit the pattern for thousands
      and decimals, then it must be a problem with the infamous input control.

      Larry Hamilton
      Kairos Computer Solutions
      http://www.kairoscomputers.com/
      Sales Affiliate for Grisoft Anti-Virus
    • Don - htmlfixit.com
      ... Hi Larry, Of the things we tested only the following were numbers (according to isnumber): a. an integer b. any single letter of the alphabet (I consider
      Message 2 of 22 , Mar 8, 2006
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        Larry Hamilton wrote:
        > loro wrote:
        >
        >>It's odd though. I also feel that what's not numeric should be alpha. And
        >>did we figure out why letters, mathematically, are zero? ;-o)
        >>
        >>Lotta
        >
        > Lotta,
        >
        > The IsNumber function is a True/False test. Either the selected
        > information is a number or it is not. The Clip Help indicates that it
        > returns 1 for a number and 0 if it is not. It must assume decimal
        > numbers, there is no option to consider Hexadecimal. But octal and

        Hi Larry,

        Of the things we tested only the following were numbers (according to
        isnumber):
        a. an integer
        b. any single letter of the alphabet (I consider this to be a bug)

        The following were not numbers:
        a. any decimal number
        b. any mixed characters other than a single alphabetic character
        c. any number with commas in it for example 1,000

        So isnumber isn't isnumber, it is isinteger (with an odd twist of single
        alphabetic characters tossed in).

        Hopefully this can be fixed in version 4.96.
      • loro
        ... Except if it s a single letter! :-) ... It works, as I can use both period and comma. The problem is that a single alphabetic character returns true when
        Message 3 of 22 , Mar 8, 2006
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          Larry Hamilton wrote:
          >The IsNumber function is a True/False test. Either the selected
          >information is a number or it is not.

          Except if it's a single letter! :-)

          >I have not tested region-specific delimiters for thousands and decimals,
          >but it should rely on the regional settings to determine if certain
          >values are numbers or not. If it does not fit the pattern for thousands
          >and decimals, then it must be a problem with the infamous input control.

          It works, as I can use both period and comma.

          The problem is that a single alphabetic character returns true when tested
          with $IsNumber$, as Don discovered. What more is, the letter seems to
          evaluate to 0. Or that's what we thought yesterday. But I tried to
          calculate with all the letters in the alphabet and it turns out this only
          "works" with the letters a, b, c, d, e, t, x and y. The others return an
          error, as we expected they all would ("expression could not be evaluated").
          But it doesn't stop here. Take a look at this. Just calculate with Ctrl+E,
          no clip needed.

          a*2=0
          b*2=0
          c*2=0
          d*2=0
          e*2=0
          t*2=0
          x*2=0
          y*2=0

          2^a=1
          2^b=1
          2^c=1
          2^d=1
          2^e=1
          2^t=1
          2^x=1
          2^y=1

          The letters act as they were zero. But look what happens with e here...


          a+2=2
          b+2=2
          c+2=2
          d+2=2
          e+2=0
          t+2=2
          x+2=2
          y+2=2

          a-2=-2
          b-2=-2
          c-2=-2
          d-2=-2
          e-2=0
          t-2=-2
          x-2=-2
          y-2=-2


          ??????????????
          Lotta
        • Don - htmlfixit.com
          As we all know, the letter e is the most popular letter, so it demands to be treated differently during negotiations, don t you think?
          Message 4 of 22 , Mar 8, 2006
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            As we all know, the letter e is the most popular letter, so it demands
            to be treated differently during negotiations, don't you think?

            > The letters act as they were zero. But look what happens with e here...
            >
            >
            > a+2=2
            > b+2=2
            > c+2=2
            > d+2=2
            > e+2=0
            > t+2=2
            > x+2=2
            > y+2=2
            >
            > a-2=-2
            > b-2=-2
            > c-2=-2
            > d-2=-2
            > e-2=0
            > t-2=-2
            > x-2=-2
            > y-2=-2
          • loro
            ... I think it s nothing less than an insult that I can t calculate with å, ä and ö, that s what I think. I ll probably write to Jody about this. I demand
            Message 5 of 22 , Mar 8, 2006
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              Don wrote:
              >As we all know, the letter e is the most popular letter, so it demands
              >to be treated differently during negotiations, don't you think?

              I think it's nothing less than an insult that I can't calculate with å, ä
              and ö, that's what I think. I'll probably write to Jody about this. I
              demand that åäö calculation will be properly implemented in the next version!

              Lotta - who is joking (better add that! ;-o))
            • Larry Hamilton
              ... I d like to buy a Q. ;-) I do not know if this behavior for IsNumber is a clip language bug or a problem with the infamous input control. I do not need
              Message 6 of 22 , Mar 8, 2006
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                Don - htmlfixit.com wrote:
                > As we all know, the letter e is the most popular letter, so it demands
                > to be treated differently during negotiations, don't you think?
                I'd like to buy a Q. ;-)

                I do not know if this behavior for IsNumber is a clip language bug or a
                problem with the infamous input control. I do not need this function too
                often, so personally not a big problem, but it should be fixed.

                Larry
              • Bill Newman
                ... I think the problem is with the definition of IsNumber in Help. It takes an argument of Value and then refers to Value as the specified text . A
                Message 7 of 22 , Mar 8, 2006
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                  Don - htmlfixit.com wrote:

                  > Larry Hamilton wrote:
                  > > loro wrote:
                  > >
                  > >>It's odd though. I also feel that what's not numeric should be
                  > alpha. And
                  > >>did we figure out why letters, mathematically, are zero? ;-o)
                  > >>
                  > >>Lotta
                  > >
                  > > Lotta,
                  > >
                  > > The IsNumber function is a True/False test. Either the selected
                  > > information is a number or it is not. The Clip Help indicates that it
                  > > returns 1 for a number and 0 if it is not. It must assume decimal
                  > > numbers, there is no option to consider Hexadecimal. But octal and
                  >
                  > Hi Larry,
                  >
                  > Of the things we tested only the following were numbers (according to
                  > isnumber):
                  > a. an integer
                  > b. any single letter of the alphabet (I consider this to be a bug)
                  >
                  > The following were not numbers:
                  > a. any decimal number
                  > b. any mixed characters other than a single alphabetic character
                  > c. any number with commas in it for example 1,000
                  >
                  > So isnumber isn't isnumber, it is isinteger (with an odd twist of single
                  > alphabetic characters tossed in).

                  I think the problem is with the definition of IsNumber in Help. It
                  takes an argument of "Value" and then refers to "Value" as the
                  "specified text". A better definition might be:

                  $IsNumber*("Str")$ *Returns 1 if Str contains only digits 0 through 9,
                  and 0 if it does not.

                  This explains what you observe. The fact that these numbers are
                  integers is just a coincidence. This definition also corresponds more
                  closely to the definition of IsAlpha.

                  It also might have avoided this whole thread. :-)

                  > Hopefully this can be fixed in version 4.96.
                  >
                  >
                  > Fookes Software: http://www.fookes.us, http://www.fookes.com
                  > Fookes Software Mailing Lists: http://www.fookes.us/maillist.htm
                • Don - htmlfixit.com
                  ... Your definition would have indeed been better than the one provided ... but I think it is more accurate to say integers (defined as all whole numbers
                  Message 8 of 22 , Mar 9, 2006
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                    > I think the problem is with the definition of IsNumber in Help. It
                    > takes an argument of "Value" and then refers to "Value" as the
                    > "specified text". A better definition might be:
                    >
                    > $IsNumber*("Str")$ *Returns 1 if Str contains only digits 0 through 9,
                    > and 0 if it does not.
                    >
                    > This explains what you observe. The fact that these numbers are
                    > integers is just a coincidence. This definition also corresponds more
                    > closely to the definition of IsAlpha.
                    >
                    > It also might have avoided this whole thread. :-)

                    Your definition would have indeed been better than the one provided ...
                    but I think it is more accurate to say integers (defined as all whole
                    numbers positive AND NEGATIVE and zero:
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer ). Your definition forgot the
                    negative sign ... that is not a 0-9 character ... and can only appear
                    immediately preceeding the number:
                    ^!Info [C] minus 5 -- ^$IsNumber("-5")$
                    ^!Info [C] 5 minus -- ^$IsNumber("5-")$
                    ^!Info [C] 5 minus 5 -- ^$IsNumber("5-5")$

                    This tread would have still been necessary because what I needed to do
                    was test if something was a number in this format ([brackets mean
                    optional] and ... ellipses means one or more):
                    [#...][,][##]#[.][#...]

                    As isnumber didn't cover my situation ... I had to come up with a way to
                    do it.

                    Is is possible to test if something is a "number" with a regex?

                    Rules:
                    1. either one or no decimal point, but there can be any number of proper
                    characters before and after the decimal
                    2. comma's are permitted but not required, but may only be present with
                    three proper characters to the right of each comma and left of the
                    decimal (or implied decimal if it is an integer)
                    3. proper characters are 0-9, an no other characters are permitted
                    except for rule 1 (decimal point) and rule 2 (properly placed commas)

                    I wrote a clip function to do it, but if there is a regex that would do
                    it quicker ...

                    I just did this:
                    a+b+c+d+e+t+x+y=0
                    But the fact that those letters for some reason have a numeric value of
                    zero when used in calculations DOES NOT make them numbers per isnumber
                    when not used in calculations, as each of the following tests negative:
                    ^!Info [C]abcdetxy --^$IsNumber("abcdetxy")$
                    ^!Info [C]a --^$IsNumber("a")$
                    ^!Info [C]aa --^$IsNumber("aa")$
                    ^!Info [C]e --^$IsNumber("e")$

                    But when we use calc, we are all over the place ...
                    ^!Info [C]abcdetxy --^$IsNumber("^$Calc(abcdetxy)$")$
                    ^!Info [C]a --^$IsNumber("^$Calc(a)$")$
                    ^!Info [C]aa --^$IsNumber("^$Calc(aa)$")$
                    ^!Info [C]a*a --^$IsNumber("^$Calc(a*a)$")$
                    ^!Info [C]e --^$IsNumber("^$Calc(e)$")$

                    Anyway, I am enjoying the tread and hope deep in my heart that this bug
                    just might be the catalyst to get Eric coding either an update or better
                    yet, a version 5. As I said a few months back though, I am not sure a
                    version 5 is really going to happen and nobody has told me I am wrong by
                    giving me any milestones, targets or goals. I'd settle for 4.96 with
                    this bug fixed and isnumber better defined in help ;-)
                  • Hugo Paulissen
                    Don, You could try this... It fetches 4.96 as well as 5.0. And: 123,4234,976.345 4234,976.345 234,976.345 4234976.345 4234976345 1 ( d+,)* d+( .)* d* Hugo
                    Message 9 of 22 , Mar 9, 2006
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                      Don,

                      You could try this...

                      It fetches 4.96 as well as 5.0.

                      And:
                      123,4234,976.345
                      4234,976.345
                      234,976.345
                      4234976.345
                      4234976345
                      1

                      (\d+,)*\d+(\.)*\d*

                      Hugo
                    • Jody
                      Hi Lotta and All, ... LOL! Actually, I have been trying to follow this thread, but my time is limited. I have sent posts to me to file it as a bug. I m sure
                      Message 10 of 22 , Mar 9, 2006
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                        Hi Lotta and All,

                        >Don wrote:
                        >> As we all know, the letter e is the most popular letter, so it
                        >> demands to be treated differently during negotiations, don't
                        >> you think?
                        >
                        >I think it's nothing less than an insult that I can't calculate
                        >with å, ä and ö, that's what I think. I'll probably write to Jody
                        >about this. I demand that åäö calculation will be properly
                        >implemented in the next version!

                        LOL! Actually, I have been trying to follow this thread, but my
                        time is limited. I have sent posts to me to file it as a bug. I'm
                        sure Eric will take it into consideration in the infamous
                        4.96/5.0/6.0 release. I'll push to get the extended characters
                        added along with giving "e" preference Don, but only after "E". :)

                        >Lotta - who is joking (better add that! ;-o))


                        Happy Topics,
                        Jody

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                      • Charles M. Raine
                        Hi Don: ... Not quite correct Don as not all of your Calc statements are valid. Try the following to see what I mean. ^!Info [C]abcdetxy --
                        Message 11 of 22 , Mar 9, 2006
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                          Hi Don:

                          On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 08:46:18 -0500, Don - htmlfixit.com wrote:
                          > But when we use calc, we are all over the place ...
                          > ^!Info [C]abcdetxy -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(abcdetxy)$")$
                          > ^!Info [C]a -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(a)$")$
                          > ^!Info [C]aa -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(aa)$")$
                          > ^!Info [C]a*a -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(a*a)$")$
                          > ^!Info [C]e -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(e)$")$

                          Not quite correct Don as not all of your Calc statements are valid. Try the

                          following to see what I mean.

                          ^!Info [C]abcdetxy -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(abcdetxy+0)$")$ --
                          ^$Calc(abcdetxy+0)$
                          ^!Info [C]a -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(a+0)$")$ -- ^$Calc(a+0)$
                          ^!Info [C]aa -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(a+a)$")$ -- ^$Calc(a+a)$
                          ^!Info [C]a*a -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(a*a)$")$ -- ^$Calc(a*a)$
                          ^!Info [C]e -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(e+0)$")$ -- ^$Calc(e+0)$

                          Charlie
                          Charles M. Raine,
                          Winnipeg. MB R3P 0W3
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