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Re: [Clip] isnumber function

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  • Don - HtmlFixIt.com
    ... I think we agree then :-) I probably didn t mean what I said or say what I meant. By fails I meant that it shows it to be a number when I would argue it
    Message 1 of 22 , Mar 4, 2006
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      loro wrote:
      > Don wrote:
      >> The above fails on this example: "1,00,00.10"
      >
      > Come on! That isn't a (correctly written) number any way you see it. A
      > writing convention maybe, but would you write it like that using a
      > calculator? We use to write "money" like this: "10:95" (where you would
      > write 10.95). That doesn't work either. :-)
      >
      > Lotta
      >
      I think we agree then :-)

      I probably didn't mean what I said or say what I meant. By fails I
      meant that it shows it to be a number when I would argue it "isn't" a
      number. I would have wanted it to say "not a number" but is said "is a
      number" when I put it to the ln() test. So I would argue while better
      than without that method that the method did not work to find well
      formed numbers. We would also agree I think that 1,,,,,,1 isn't a
      number, but that method found it to be one.

      I am actually working on a European clip, so I have converted commas to
      decimals so they are in my way of thinking before I test them. There
      they say 10,95 vs my 10.95 vs your (now outdated) 10:95. I used
      strreplace to convert it to my "proper" number formula. Then I wanted
      to test it to be sure it was good.
    • loro
      ... My Notetab handles comma as well as period as decimal point. I don t know if that is programmed in Notatab or if it in some way pick the comma up from my
      Message 2 of 22 , Mar 5, 2006
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        Don:
        >I am actually working on a European clip, so I have converted commas to
        >decimals so they are in my way of thinking before I test them. There
        >they say 10,95 vs my 10.95 vs your (now outdated) 10:95. I used
        >strreplace to convert it to my "proper" number formula. Then I wanted
        >to test it to be sure it was good.

        "My" Notetab handles comma as well as period as decimal point. I don't know
        if that is programmed in Notatab or if it in some way pick the comma up
        from my system. I have some other (not swedish) programs that demand that I
        use comma, just because of my locale. Very irritating. I'm now used to
        period, so I get it wrong all the time.

        But I meant numbers like this one: 1,00,00.10. As I see it there are two
        too many, either you use comma or period. ;-)

        It's odd though. I also feel that what's not numeric should be alpha. And
        did we figure out why letters, mathematically, are zero? ;-o)

        Lotta
      • Larry Hamilton
        ... Lotta, The IsNumber function is a True/False test. Either the selected information is a number or it is not. The Clip Help indicates that it returns 1 for
        Message 3 of 22 , Mar 8, 2006
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          loro wrote:
          > It's odd though. I also feel that what's not numeric should be alpha. And
          > did we figure out why letters, mathematically, are zero? ;-o)
          >
          > Lotta
          Lotta,

          The IsNumber function is a True/False test. Either the selected
          information is a number or it is not. The Clip Help indicates that it
          returns 1 for a number and 0 if it is not. It must assume decimal
          numbers, there is no option to consider Hexadecimal. But octal and
          binary values that have the same characters to represent decimal numbers
          would evaluate to numbers, if there is no character as part of the
          number indicating something other than decimal.

          I have not tested region-specific delimiters for thousands and decimals,
          but it should rely on the regional settings to determine if certain
          values are numbers or not. If it does not fit the pattern for thousands
          and decimals, then it must be a problem with the infamous input control.

          Larry Hamilton
          Kairos Computer Solutions
          http://www.kairoscomputers.com/
          Sales Affiliate for Grisoft Anti-Virus
        • Don - htmlfixit.com
          ... Hi Larry, Of the things we tested only the following were numbers (according to isnumber): a. an integer b. any single letter of the alphabet (I consider
          Message 4 of 22 , Mar 8, 2006
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            Larry Hamilton wrote:
            > loro wrote:
            >
            >>It's odd though. I also feel that what's not numeric should be alpha. And
            >>did we figure out why letters, mathematically, are zero? ;-o)
            >>
            >>Lotta
            >
            > Lotta,
            >
            > The IsNumber function is a True/False test. Either the selected
            > information is a number or it is not. The Clip Help indicates that it
            > returns 1 for a number and 0 if it is not. It must assume decimal
            > numbers, there is no option to consider Hexadecimal. But octal and

            Hi Larry,

            Of the things we tested only the following were numbers (according to
            isnumber):
            a. an integer
            b. any single letter of the alphabet (I consider this to be a bug)

            The following were not numbers:
            a. any decimal number
            b. any mixed characters other than a single alphabetic character
            c. any number with commas in it for example 1,000

            So isnumber isn't isnumber, it is isinteger (with an odd twist of single
            alphabetic characters tossed in).

            Hopefully this can be fixed in version 4.96.
          • loro
            ... Except if it s a single letter! :-) ... It works, as I can use both period and comma. The problem is that a single alphabetic character returns true when
            Message 5 of 22 , Mar 8, 2006
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              Larry Hamilton wrote:
              >The IsNumber function is a True/False test. Either the selected
              >information is a number or it is not.

              Except if it's a single letter! :-)

              >I have not tested region-specific delimiters for thousands and decimals,
              >but it should rely on the regional settings to determine if certain
              >values are numbers or not. If it does not fit the pattern for thousands
              >and decimals, then it must be a problem with the infamous input control.

              It works, as I can use both period and comma.

              The problem is that a single alphabetic character returns true when tested
              with $IsNumber$, as Don discovered. What more is, the letter seems to
              evaluate to 0. Or that's what we thought yesterday. But I tried to
              calculate with all the letters in the alphabet and it turns out this only
              "works" with the letters a, b, c, d, e, t, x and y. The others return an
              error, as we expected they all would ("expression could not be evaluated").
              But it doesn't stop here. Take a look at this. Just calculate with Ctrl+E,
              no clip needed.

              a*2=0
              b*2=0
              c*2=0
              d*2=0
              e*2=0
              t*2=0
              x*2=0
              y*2=0

              2^a=1
              2^b=1
              2^c=1
              2^d=1
              2^e=1
              2^t=1
              2^x=1
              2^y=1

              The letters act as they were zero. But look what happens with e here...


              a+2=2
              b+2=2
              c+2=2
              d+2=2
              e+2=0
              t+2=2
              x+2=2
              y+2=2

              a-2=-2
              b-2=-2
              c-2=-2
              d-2=-2
              e-2=0
              t-2=-2
              x-2=-2
              y-2=-2


              ??????????????
              Lotta
            • Don - htmlfixit.com
              As we all know, the letter e is the most popular letter, so it demands to be treated differently during negotiations, don t you think?
              Message 6 of 22 , Mar 8, 2006
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                As we all know, the letter e is the most popular letter, so it demands
                to be treated differently during negotiations, don't you think?

                > The letters act as they were zero. But look what happens with e here...
                >
                >
                > a+2=2
                > b+2=2
                > c+2=2
                > d+2=2
                > e+2=0
                > t+2=2
                > x+2=2
                > y+2=2
                >
                > a-2=-2
                > b-2=-2
                > c-2=-2
                > d-2=-2
                > e-2=0
                > t-2=-2
                > x-2=-2
                > y-2=-2
              • loro
                ... I think it s nothing less than an insult that I can t calculate with å, ä and ö, that s what I think. I ll probably write to Jody about this. I demand
                Message 7 of 22 , Mar 8, 2006
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                  Don wrote:
                  >As we all know, the letter e is the most popular letter, so it demands
                  >to be treated differently during negotiations, don't you think?

                  I think it's nothing less than an insult that I can't calculate with å, ä
                  and ö, that's what I think. I'll probably write to Jody about this. I
                  demand that åäö calculation will be properly implemented in the next version!

                  Lotta - who is joking (better add that! ;-o))
                • Larry Hamilton
                  ... I d like to buy a Q. ;-) I do not know if this behavior for IsNumber is a clip language bug or a problem with the infamous input control. I do not need
                  Message 8 of 22 , Mar 8, 2006
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                    Don - htmlfixit.com wrote:
                    > As we all know, the letter e is the most popular letter, so it demands
                    > to be treated differently during negotiations, don't you think?
                    I'd like to buy a Q. ;-)

                    I do not know if this behavior for IsNumber is a clip language bug or a
                    problem with the infamous input control. I do not need this function too
                    often, so personally not a big problem, but it should be fixed.

                    Larry
                  • Bill Newman
                    ... I think the problem is with the definition of IsNumber in Help. It takes an argument of Value and then refers to Value as the specified text . A
                    Message 9 of 22 , Mar 8, 2006
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                      Don - htmlfixit.com wrote:

                      > Larry Hamilton wrote:
                      > > loro wrote:
                      > >
                      > >>It's odd though. I also feel that what's not numeric should be
                      > alpha. And
                      > >>did we figure out why letters, mathematically, are zero? ;-o)
                      > >>
                      > >>Lotta
                      > >
                      > > Lotta,
                      > >
                      > > The IsNumber function is a True/False test. Either the selected
                      > > information is a number or it is not. The Clip Help indicates that it
                      > > returns 1 for a number and 0 if it is not. It must assume decimal
                      > > numbers, there is no option to consider Hexadecimal. But octal and
                      >
                      > Hi Larry,
                      >
                      > Of the things we tested only the following were numbers (according to
                      > isnumber):
                      > a. an integer
                      > b. any single letter of the alphabet (I consider this to be a bug)
                      >
                      > The following were not numbers:
                      > a. any decimal number
                      > b. any mixed characters other than a single alphabetic character
                      > c. any number with commas in it for example 1,000
                      >
                      > So isnumber isn't isnumber, it is isinteger (with an odd twist of single
                      > alphabetic characters tossed in).

                      I think the problem is with the definition of IsNumber in Help. It
                      takes an argument of "Value" and then refers to "Value" as the
                      "specified text". A better definition might be:

                      $IsNumber*("Str")$ *Returns 1 if Str contains only digits 0 through 9,
                      and 0 if it does not.

                      This explains what you observe. The fact that these numbers are
                      integers is just a coincidence. This definition also corresponds more
                      closely to the definition of IsAlpha.

                      It also might have avoided this whole thread. :-)

                      > Hopefully this can be fixed in version 4.96.
                      >
                      >
                      > Fookes Software: http://www.fookes.us, http://www.fookes.com
                      > Fookes Software Mailing Lists: http://www.fookes.us/maillist.htm
                    • Don - htmlfixit.com
                      ... Your definition would have indeed been better than the one provided ... but I think it is more accurate to say integers (defined as all whole numbers
                      Message 10 of 22 , Mar 9, 2006
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                        > I think the problem is with the definition of IsNumber in Help. It
                        > takes an argument of "Value" and then refers to "Value" as the
                        > "specified text". A better definition might be:
                        >
                        > $IsNumber*("Str")$ *Returns 1 if Str contains only digits 0 through 9,
                        > and 0 if it does not.
                        >
                        > This explains what you observe. The fact that these numbers are
                        > integers is just a coincidence. This definition also corresponds more
                        > closely to the definition of IsAlpha.
                        >
                        > It also might have avoided this whole thread. :-)

                        Your definition would have indeed been better than the one provided ...
                        but I think it is more accurate to say integers (defined as all whole
                        numbers positive AND NEGATIVE and zero:
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer ). Your definition forgot the
                        negative sign ... that is not a 0-9 character ... and can only appear
                        immediately preceeding the number:
                        ^!Info [C] minus 5 -- ^$IsNumber("-5")$
                        ^!Info [C] 5 minus -- ^$IsNumber("5-")$
                        ^!Info [C] 5 minus 5 -- ^$IsNumber("5-5")$

                        This tread would have still been necessary because what I needed to do
                        was test if something was a number in this format ([brackets mean
                        optional] and ... ellipses means one or more):
                        [#...][,][##]#[.][#...]

                        As isnumber didn't cover my situation ... I had to come up with a way to
                        do it.

                        Is is possible to test if something is a "number" with a regex?

                        Rules:
                        1. either one or no decimal point, but there can be any number of proper
                        characters before and after the decimal
                        2. comma's are permitted but not required, but may only be present with
                        three proper characters to the right of each comma and left of the
                        decimal (or implied decimal if it is an integer)
                        3. proper characters are 0-9, an no other characters are permitted
                        except for rule 1 (decimal point) and rule 2 (properly placed commas)

                        I wrote a clip function to do it, but if there is a regex that would do
                        it quicker ...

                        I just did this:
                        a+b+c+d+e+t+x+y=0
                        But the fact that those letters for some reason have a numeric value of
                        zero when used in calculations DOES NOT make them numbers per isnumber
                        when not used in calculations, as each of the following tests negative:
                        ^!Info [C]abcdetxy --^$IsNumber("abcdetxy")$
                        ^!Info [C]a --^$IsNumber("a")$
                        ^!Info [C]aa --^$IsNumber("aa")$
                        ^!Info [C]e --^$IsNumber("e")$

                        But when we use calc, we are all over the place ...
                        ^!Info [C]abcdetxy --^$IsNumber("^$Calc(abcdetxy)$")$
                        ^!Info [C]a --^$IsNumber("^$Calc(a)$")$
                        ^!Info [C]aa --^$IsNumber("^$Calc(aa)$")$
                        ^!Info [C]a*a --^$IsNumber("^$Calc(a*a)$")$
                        ^!Info [C]e --^$IsNumber("^$Calc(e)$")$

                        Anyway, I am enjoying the tread and hope deep in my heart that this bug
                        just might be the catalyst to get Eric coding either an update or better
                        yet, a version 5. As I said a few months back though, I am not sure a
                        version 5 is really going to happen and nobody has told me I am wrong by
                        giving me any milestones, targets or goals. I'd settle for 4.96 with
                        this bug fixed and isnumber better defined in help ;-)
                      • Hugo Paulissen
                        Don, You could try this... It fetches 4.96 as well as 5.0. And: 123,4234,976.345 4234,976.345 234,976.345 4234976.345 4234976345 1 ( d+,)* d+( .)* d* Hugo
                        Message 11 of 22 , Mar 9, 2006
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                          Don,

                          You could try this...

                          It fetches 4.96 as well as 5.0.

                          And:
                          123,4234,976.345
                          4234,976.345
                          234,976.345
                          4234976.345
                          4234976345
                          1

                          (\d+,)*\d+(\.)*\d*

                          Hugo
                        • Jody
                          Hi Lotta and All, ... LOL! Actually, I have been trying to follow this thread, but my time is limited. I have sent posts to me to file it as a bug. I m sure
                          Message 12 of 22 , Mar 9, 2006
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                            Hi Lotta and All,

                            >Don wrote:
                            >> As we all know, the letter e is the most popular letter, so it
                            >> demands to be treated differently during negotiations, don't
                            >> you think?
                            >
                            >I think it's nothing less than an insult that I can't calculate
                            >with å, ä and ö, that's what I think. I'll probably write to Jody
                            >about this. I demand that åäö calculation will be properly
                            >implemented in the next version!

                            LOL! Actually, I have been trying to follow this thread, but my
                            time is limited. I have sent posts to me to file it as a bug. I'm
                            sure Eric will take it into consideration in the infamous
                            4.96/5.0/6.0 release. I'll push to get the extended characters
                            added along with giving "e" preference Don, but only after "E". :)

                            >Lotta - who is joking (better add that! ;-o))


                            Happy Topics,
                            Jody

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                          • Charles M. Raine
                            Hi Don: ... Not quite correct Don as not all of your Calc statements are valid. Try the following to see what I mean. ^!Info [C]abcdetxy --
                            Message 13 of 22 , Mar 9, 2006
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                              Hi Don:

                              On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 08:46:18 -0500, Don - htmlfixit.com wrote:
                              > But when we use calc, we are all over the place ...
                              > ^!Info [C]abcdetxy -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(abcdetxy)$")$
                              > ^!Info [C]a -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(a)$")$
                              > ^!Info [C]aa -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(aa)$")$
                              > ^!Info [C]a*a -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(a*a)$")$
                              > ^!Info [C]e -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(e)$")$

                              Not quite correct Don as not all of your Calc statements are valid. Try the

                              following to see what I mean.

                              ^!Info [C]abcdetxy -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(abcdetxy+0)$")$ --
                              ^$Calc(abcdetxy+0)$
                              ^!Info [C]a -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(a+0)$")$ -- ^$Calc(a+0)$
                              ^!Info [C]aa -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(a+a)$")$ -- ^$Calc(a+a)$
                              ^!Info [C]a*a -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(a*a)$")$ -- ^$Calc(a*a)$
                              ^!Info [C]e -- ^$IsNumber("^$Calc(e+0)$")$ -- ^$Calc(e+0)$

                              Charlie
                              Charles M. Raine,
                              Winnipeg. MB R3P 0W3
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