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[NTO] Netscape bug???

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  • Marco Bernardini
    *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro* Hi all! first of all, PLEASE DON T QUOTE ALL MY ODDITIES! While doing my Sunday job
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 10, 2000
      *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*

      Hi all!

      first of all, PLEASE DON'T QUOTE ALL MY ODDITIES!

      While doing my Sunday job (to rewrite my uncle's site -
      http://www.giorgiobernardini.com ) I discover a very very strange behaviour
      in NS 4.7.

      Just to show it to you here above there is a sample of the guilty text:
      it's an extract of an artistic critique about his paintings, no need to
      understand it [*].

      I wrote a tenth of pages, and everyone is justified, except one.
      So I try to remove pieces of code until the problem disappears, to see what
      happens.
      And the problem is: if the word "del" (means "of the", not "delete", uh!)
      falls at the end of a line the justification is lost, not only in that
      paragraph but in the whole page.
      Try this snippet:

      <BODY>
      <center><table width=580 cellpadding=10 border=0><tr><td>
      <font face="arial,helvetica" size=2><b>
      <p align=justify>
      Sono paesaggi vivi, colti d'un tratto e colmi d'incantata emozione nei
      trapassi dolcissimi dei colori in cui si avverte una gradazione tonale con
      una leggera libertà del tratto disegnativo, espressamente voluta.<br>
      </p>
      </td></tr></table></center></BODY></HTML>

      If I replace "del" with something else, or I change the width of the table
      or the cellpadding value, or I change the font face or size, the paragraph
      is justified, because "del" don't falls at the end of the line.
      It's a bug or a feature?

      To solve it in a "quick and dirty" way I modify the cellpadding value on
      every page, however the problem is always there.

      For example, this other text is justified in a 579 pixel table, but the
      justification disappears if the table goes at 580 pixels:

      <p align=justify>
      «... i suoi paesaggi agresti dell'entroterra ligure, che con tanto
      amore trasporta sulle tele, i focolai rurali che infondono nello spirito
      dell'osservatore una pace ed una patriarcale armonia domestica in via dl
      estinzione in un mondo che diventa di giorno in giorno sempre più
      caotico e nevrotico, rivelano lo spirito conservatore dell'artista il
      quale, uso all'arte del restauro, sembra voglia preservare intatte le
      tradizioni arcaiche del nostro popolo... »<br></p>

      Of course I set the table at 579...

      Have a nice sunday!

      Marco Bernardini

      ^^^^^^

      [*] For Italian-impaired it says "They are living landscapes, grab in a
      while and full of enchanced emotion in the sweet trespassing of colors
      where it's possible to feel a tonal graduation with a light freedom of the
      sketch, expressly desired".
      The other text is odd in the same way.
      As I say, no need to understand it: and critics take money to write this...
      better than write Web pages!
    • Lotta
      Hello Marco! ... He he. This is funny. But I can tell you that whatever it is, it isn t del . You have overlooked a syntax error, so I thought that was it.
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 10, 2000
        Hello Marco!

        >And the problem is: if the word "del" (means "of the", not "delete", uh!)
        >falls at the end of a line the justification is lost, not only in that
        >paragraph but in the whole page.

        He he. This is funny. But I can tell you that whatever it is, it isn't
        'del'. You have overlooked a syntax error, so I thought that was it. But it
        isn't.

        It only happens in a table and only with that text. Have you noted it goes
        away with a visual border? I took a piece of text from todays newspaper, in
        Swedish, and put 'libertà del tratto' in a sentence. I manipulated
        the text size in NS until I got 'del' at the end of a line, and it does
        not happen.

        I think it has to do with the exact length of the words and the space
        available (don't ask me...). If 'del' is substituted with 'xxx' it doesn't
        happen. Substitute 'del' with 'led', 'lde' and so on and there it is. But
        ONLY in the original text....Possibly there is also some peculiarity with
        align=justify inside Tables in NS. Dunno. I chopped the longer words on
        both sides of 'del' up (sorry) and now it doesn't happen even if 'led' is
        at the end of a line.

        ...........................................................................
        Sono paesaggi vivi, colti d'un tratto e colmi d'incantata emozione nei
        trapassi dolcissimi dei colori in cui si avverte una gradazione tonale con
        una leggera liber led tratto diseg nativo, espressamente voluta.
        ....................................................................................

        So, my advice to you Marco is: write in Swedish and everyone will be happy!
        Or perhaps rephrase, using shorter words and hope for the best?

        Bye,

        Lotta with NS 4.5



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Harvey R. Savage
        Hi Marco, I tried both pieces of code in your email. I m using NS 4.75. I did see your justification so I used Tools | Tidy Html Code . Here is the result,
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 10, 2000
          Hi Marco,

          I tried both pieces of code in your email. I'm using NS 4.75. I
          did see your justification so I used 'Tools | Tidy Html Code'.
          Here is the result, and this justifies. Tidy Html added and
          moved a few items.

          Try this!

          hrs

          <html>
          <head>
          <title></title>
          </head>
          <body>
          <center>
          <table width="580" cellpadding="10" border="0">
          <tr>
          <td>
          <p align="justify"><font face="arial,helvetica" size="2"><b>Sono
          paesaggi vivi, colti d'un tratto e colmi d'incantata emozione nei
          trapassi dolcissimi dei colori in cui si avverte una gradazione
          tonale con una leggera libertà del tratto disegnativo,
          espressamente voluta.<br />
          </b></font></p>
          </td>
          </tr>
          </table>
          </center>

          <p align="justify"> «... i suoi paesaggi agresti
          dell'entroterra ligure, che con tanto amore trasporta sulle tele,
          i focolai rurali che infondono nello spirito dell'osservatore una
          pace ed una patriarcale armonia domestica in via dl estinzione in
          un mondo che diventa di giorno in giorno sempre più
          caotico e nevrotico, rivelano lo spirito conservatore
          dell'artista il quale, uso all'arte del restauro, sembra voglia
          preservare intatte le tradizioni arcaiche del nostro popolo ...
          »<br />
          </p>
          </body>
          </html>




          Marco Bernardini wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hi all!
          >
          > first of all, PLEASE DON'T QUOTE ALL MY ODDITIES!
          >
          > While doing my Sunday job (to rewrite my uncle's site -
          > http://www.giorgiobernardini.com ) I discover a very very strange behaviour
          > in NS 4.7.
          >
          > Just to show it to you here above there is a sample of the guilty text:
          > it's an extract of an artistic critique about his paintings, no need to
          > understand it [*].
          >
          > Try this snippet:
          >
          > <BODY>
          > <center><table width=580 cellpadding=10 border=0><tr><td>
          > <font face="arial,helvetica" size=2><b>
          > <p align=justify>
          > Sono paesaggi vivi, colti d'un tratto e colmi d'incantata emozione nei
          > trapassi dolcissimi dei colori in cui si avverte una gradazione tonale con
          > una leggera libertà del tratto disegnativo, espressamente voluta.<br>
          > </p>
          > </td></tr></table></center></BODY></HTML>
          >
          > If I replace "del" with something else, or I change the width of the table
          > or the cellpadding value, or I change the font face or size, the paragraph
          > is justified, because "del" don't falls at the end of the line.
          > It's a bug or a feature?
          >
          > To solve it in a "quick and dirty" way I modify the cellpadding value on
          > every page, however the problem is always there.
          >
          > For example, this other text is justified in a 579 pixel table, but the
          > justification disappears if the table goes at 580 pixels:
          >
          > <p align=justify>
          > «... i suoi paesaggi agresti dell'entroterra ligure, che con tanto
          > amore trasporta sulle tele, i focolai rurali che infondono nello spirito
          > dell'osservatore una pace ed una patriarcale armonia domestica in via dl
          > estinzione in un mondo che diventa di giorno in giorno sempre più
          > caotico e nevrotico, rivelano lo spirito conservatore dell'artista il
          > quale, uso all'arte del restauro, sembra voglia preservare intatte le
          > tradizioni arcaiche del nostro popolo... »<br></p>
          >
          > Of course I set the table at 579...
          >
          > Have a nice sunday!
          >
          > Marco Bernardini

          --
          ¿? Harvey R. Savage
          ¿? 40 Golf Course Road
          ¿? Eldorado, IL 62930
          ¿? 618-273-5003
          ¿? icq 21106393
          ¿? hsavage@...
          ¿? (ktcalci)
        • Lotta
          Harvey, Marco, ... Nope. Tidy corrects the syntax slip and adds some quotes, but alas that doesn t alter the output. Not in 4.5 anyway. Did you make sure that
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 10, 2000
            Harvey, Marco,

            Harvey wrote:
            >I tried both pieces of code in your email. I'm using NS 4.75. I
            >did see your justification so I used 'Tools | Tidy Html Code'.
            >Here is the result, and this justifies. Tidy Html added and
            >moved a few items.

            Nope. Tidy corrects the syntax slip and adds some quotes, but alas that
            doesn't alter the output. Not in 4.5 anyway. Did you make sure that 'del'
            was at the end of a line, Harvey? I pasted your code in and it looks
            exactly the same as Marco's and mine. I'm going to loose sleep over this...

            Lotta
          • Marco Bernardini
            *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro* ... At least in Sweden :) ... Just modified the table width! I suspect this bug is a
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 10, 2000
              *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*

              Alle 15.51 Sunday 10/09/2000 +0200, Lotta ha mandato a Marco questo messaggio:


              >So, my advice to you Marco is: write in Swedish and everyone will be happy!

              At least in Sweden :)


              >Or perhaps rephrase, using shorter words and hope for the best?

              Just modified the table width!

              I suspect this bug is a peculiarity of 4.5/4.7, because Harvey says
              everything it's correct ...

              Bye!

              Marco with Lynx (to avoid oddities!)
            • Harvey R. Savage
              Hello Lotta, Marco, I did try it with del at the end of both lines, or paragraphs. In the original post del was not at the end of the line and it didn t make
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 10, 2000
                Hello Lotta, Marco,

                I did try it with del at the end of both lines, or paragraphs.
                In the original post 'del' was not at the end of the line and it
                didn't make any difference, it didn't justify correctly. After
                Tidying up though the code justifies with or without 'del' at the
                end of the line. The code as is pasted following, justifies
                correctly. The first paragraph is only a sentence and a half and
                if the browser justified that it would really look odd with very
                large gaps in the text. The browser is probably intelligent
                enough to only justify the first line of the first paragraph.

                That which follows justifies correctly on my Netscape.

                <html>
                <head>
                <title></title>
                </head>
                <body>
                <center>
                <table width="580" cellpadding="10" border="0">
                <tr>
                <td>
                <p align="justify"><font face="arial,helvetica" size="2"><b>Sono
                paesaggi vivi, colti d'un tratto e colmi d'incantata emozione nei
                trapassi dolcissimi dei colori in cui si avverte una gradazione
                tonale con una leggera libertà del tratto disegnativo,
                espressamente voluta. del<br />
                </b></font></p>
                </td>
                </tr>
                </table>
                </center>

                <p align="justify"> «... i suoi paesaggi agresti
                dell'entroterra ligure, che con tanto amore trasporta sulle tele,
                i focolai rurali che infondono nello spirito dell'osservatore una
                pace ed una patriarcale armonia domestica in via dl estinzione in
                un mondo che diventa di giorno in giorno sempre più
                caotico e nevrotico, rivelano lo spirito conservatore
                dell'artista il quale, uso all'arte del restauro, sembra voglia
                preservare intatte le tradizioni arcaiche del nostro popolo ...
                »del<br />
                </p>
                </body>
                </html>

                hrs


                Lotta wrote:
                >
                > Harvey, Marco,
                >
                > Harvey wrote:
                > >I tried both pieces of code in your email. I'm using NS 4.75. I
                > >did see your justification so I used 'Tools | Tidy Html Code'.
                > >Here is the result, and this justifies. Tidy Html added and
                > >moved a few items.
                >
                > Nope. Tidy corrects the syntax slip and adds some quotes, but alas that
                > doesn't alter the output. Not in 4.5 anyway. Did you make sure that 'del'
                > was at the end of a line, Harvey? I pasted your code in and it looks
                > exactly the same as Marco's and mine. I'm going to loose sleep over this...
                >
                > Lotta

                --
                ¿? Harvey R. Savage
                ¿? 40 Golf Course Road
                ¿? Eldorado, IL 62930
                ¿? 618-273-5003
                ¿? icq 21106393
                ¿? hsavage@...
                ¿? (ktcalci)
              • Lotta
                Harvey, Do you perhaps have the latest version of Netscape? I only tested the first paragraph. With that exact wording it doesn t justify within a table if
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 10, 2000
                  Harvey,

                  Do you perhaps have the latest version of Netscape? I only tested the
                  first paragraph. With that exact wording it doesn't justify within a table
                  if the line is forced to wrap after 'del' whatever I do. If I re sort the
                  words it does. The words before and after aren't extremely long, so that
                  can't be the reason.
                  This is spooky! Hope you have a later version of NS than I (4.5) or my hair
                  will grow grey. It will anyway if I don't find out the reason for this
                  behavior in my version alone. Well, off to bed after yet another enhancing
                  evening.

                  Night,

                  Lotta
                • Lotta
                  That was to be enchanting evening. Perhaps tomorrow will be enhancing . :-)) Lotta
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 10, 2000
                    That was to be enchanting evening. Perhaps tomorrow will be enhancing . :-))

                    Lotta
                  • Harvey R. Savage
                    Lotta, Six of one, half dozen of another! ... -- ¿? Harvey R. Savage ¿? 40 Golf Course Road ¿? Eldorado, IL 62930 ¿? 618-273-5003 ¿? icq 21106393
                    Message 9 of 12 , Sep 10, 2000
                      Lotta,

                      Six of one, half dozen of another!

                      Lotta wrote:
                      >
                      > That was to be enchanting evening. Perhaps tomorrow will be enhancing . :-))
                      >
                      > Lotta

                      --
                      ¿? Harvey R. Savage
                      ¿? 40 Golf Course Road
                      ¿? Eldorado, IL 62930
                      ¿? 618-273-5003
                      ¿? icq 21106393
                      ¿? hsavage@...
                      ¿? (ktcalci)
                    • Marco Bernardini
                      *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro* Hello to all stamp collectors! For some days I m at the International Meeting of
                      Message 10 of 12 , Sep 13, 2000
                        *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*

                        Hello to all stamp collectors!
                        For some days I'm at the International Meeting of Sailing Boats in Imperia
                        (http://www.veledepoca.com), side-by-side with the post office.
                        There is a special annullation (hope it's the right term...) for the event:
                        if someone is interested please mail me before saturday, so I can send him
                        a postcard.
                        One of these days I'll show you my marble and slate sculptures resembling
                        sail boats... sometimes it's easier to carve slate than to table HTML :)

                        Bye!

                        Marco Bernardini
                      • Carl Swann
                        ... What a generous offer... I m not much of a philatelist (stamp collector)... however, I think the English word for what you re offering is cancellation ...
                        Message 11 of 12 , Sep 14, 2000
                          Marco Bernardini wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello to all stamp collectors!
                          > For some days I'm at the International Meeting of Sailing Boats in Imperia
                          > (http://www.veledepoca.com), side-by-side with the post office.

                          What a generous offer... I'm not much of a philatelist (stamp
                          collector)... however, I think the English word for what you're
                          offering is "cancellation"... I like the image that "annullation"
                          suggests, though... ;-)

                          I always enjoy your posts and your sense of humor... and please post
                          the URL for your sculptures some day, too!

                          Thanks!

                          --
                          ==============================================================

                          ||||| Carl Swann, Kingsport TN
                          (o o) "Starting slow, and coasting downhill from there"
                          oOOo-(_)-oOOo
                        • Marco Bernardini
                          *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro* Alle 09.00 Thursday 14/09/2000 -0400, Carl Swann ha mandato a Marco questo ... Oh,
                          Message 12 of 12 , Sep 14, 2000
                            *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*

                            Alle 09.00 Thursday 14/09/2000 -0400, Carl Swann ha mandato a Marco questo
                            messaggio:

                            >What a generous offer... I'm not much of a philatelist (stamp
                            >collector)... however, I think the English word for what you're
                            >offering is "cancellation"... I like the image that "annullation"
                            >suggests, though... ;-)

                            Oh, thanks, Carl!
                            I find it on a brochure just this afternoon.
                            Every hobby has its own jargon!


                            >I always enjoy your posts and your sense of humor... and please post
                            >the URL for your sculptures some day, too!

                            I think next week I'll develope the photos.

                            Bye!

                            Marco Bernardini
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