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Re: [NTO] Re: Yahoo Groups down the drain?

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  • Greg Chapman
    On 24 Sep 10 18:39 Mike Breiding - Morgantown WV ... Nabble.com seem to offer a forum that will allow full email access for email contributors. May be worth
    Message 1 of 29 , Sep 24, 2010
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      On 24 Sep 10 18:39 Mike Breiding - Morgantown WV
      <mike@...> said:
      >
      > Maybe it is time to migrate to a BBS?

      Nabble.com seem to offer a forum that will allow full email access for
      email contributors.

      May be worth investigating if we are "forced" off Yahoo.

      Free and reasonably clear of intrusive adverts

      Greg
    • Adrien Verlee
      Op 24-sep-10, om 19:39 heeft Mike Breiding - Morgantown WV het ... A forum? Please don t. -- Adrien
      Message 2 of 29 , Sep 24, 2010
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        Op 24-sep-10, om 19:39 heeft Mike Breiding - Morgantown WV het
        volgende geschreven:

        > Maybe it is time to migrate to a BBS?

        A forum? Please don't.
        --
        Adrien
      • Mike Breiding - Morgantown WV
        ... Options, please. -Mike
        Message 3 of 29 , Sep 24, 2010
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          Adrien Verlee wrote:
          >
          > Op 24-sep-10, om 19:39 heeft Mike Breiding - Morgantown WV het
          > volgende geschreven:
          >
          > > Maybe it is time to migrate to a BBS?
          >
          > A forum? Please don't.

          Options, please.
          -Mike

          > --
          > Adrien
          >
          >
        • Axel Berger
          ... Fookes have an own website, it ought to be possible to install some mailing-lists there. Axel
          Message 4 of 29 , Sep 24, 2010
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            Mike Breiding - Morgantown WV wrote:
            > Options, please.

            Fookes have an own website, it ought to be possible to install some
            mailing-lists there.

            Axel
          • Alec Burgess
            ... If it comes to that I d suggest Google Groups. I belong to a number of them and they seem to work just as well ... at least from the member facing side.
            Message 5 of 29 , Sep 24, 2010
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              On 2010-09-24 18:58, Axel Berger wrote:
              > Mike Breiding - Morgantown WV wrote:
              > > Options, please.
              >
              > Fookes have an own website, it ought to be possible to install some
              > mailing-lists there.
              If it comes to that I'd suggest Google Groups. I belong to a number of
              them and they seem to work just as well ... at least from the member
              facing side. Major problem I'd expect would be loss of members however
              the transfer is done.

              Googling [transferring group from Yahoo to Google] lead (eventually) to
              this post which seems to address some of the issues:
              http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Groups-Basics/browse_thread/thread/83abad76c44589ee?pli=1

              --
              Regards ... Alec (buralex@gmail & WinLiveMess - alec.m.burgess@skype)
            • Sheri
              ... Unconfirmed, but someone on another group said today I read that Google are removing two key features of Google Groups, the Pages and the Files! Have you
              Message 6 of 29 , Sep 24, 2010
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                --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, Alec Burgess <buralex@...> wrote:
                >
                > On 2010-09-24 18:58, Axel Berger wrote:
                > > Mike Breiding - Morgantown WV wrote:
                > > > Options, please.
                > >
                > > Fookes have an own website, it ought to be possible to install some
                > > mailing-lists there.
                > If it comes to that I'd suggest Google Groups. I belong to a
                > number of them and they seem to work just as well ... at least
                > from the member facing side. Major problem I'd expect would be
                > loss of members however the transfer is done.
                >

                Unconfirmed, but someone on another group said today "I read that Google are removing two key features of Google Groups, the Pages and the Files!" Have you seen anything like that?

                Regards,
                Sheri
              • Sheri
                ... Ugh.
                Message 7 of 29 , Sep 24, 2010
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                  --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, "Sheri" <silvermoonwoman@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Unconfirmed, but someone on another group said today "I read that Google are removing two key features of Google Groups, the Pages and the Files!" Have you seen anything like that?
                  >


                  Ugh. <http://groups-announcements.blogspot.com/2010/09/notice-about-pages-and-files.html?hl=en>
                • Sheri
                  You can join this group to experience the latest revision of the new interface. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Y-Mail
                  Message 8 of 29 , Sep 24, 2010
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                    You can join this group to experience the latest revision of the new interface.

                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Y-Mail
                  • Alec Burgess
                    ... Maybe this from Wikipedia? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Groups ... I ve not used Pages feature in Google Groups but have used both Google Docs and
                    Message 9 of 29 , Sep 25, 2010
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                      On 2010-09-25 01:52, Sheri wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Fookes have an own website, it ought to be possible to install some
                      > > > mailing-lists there.
                      > > If it comes to that I'd suggest Google Groups. I belong to a
                      > > number of them and they seem to work just as well ... at least
                      > > from the member facing side. Major problem I'd expect would be
                      > > loss of members however the transfer is done.
                      > >
                      >
                      > Unconfirmed, but someone on another group said today "I read that
                      > Google are removing two key features of Google Groups, the Pages and
                      > the Files!" Have you seen anything like that?
                      Maybe this from Wikipedia? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Groups
                      > Group web pages
                      > The *group pages* were introduced in the beta version of October
                      > 5, 2006 (promoted from beta status on January 24, 2007). They can
                      > be edited by group members or group managers and can store files
                      > for download. Versions of pages are kept in a similar way to a
                      > Wiki <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki>. On September 22, 2010
                      > Google announced plans for turning off the group pages suggesting
                      > users to move their content to Google Docs
                      > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Docs> or Google Sites
                      > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Sites>. Starting in November
                      > 2010, the group pages will become read-only (allowing only
                      > viewing/downloading existing content) while in February 2011 they
                      > will be turned off completely.
                      I've not used Pages feature in Google Groups but have used both Google
                      Docs and Google Sites and used to use Google Page Creator.

                      I just clicked on Pages for one of my Groups and found:
                      > Google Groups will no longer be supporting the Pages and Files
                      > features. Starting November 1, you won't be able to upload new
                      > content, but you will still be able to view and download existing
                      > content. See this announcement
                      > <http://groups-announcements.blogspot.com/2010/09/notice-about-pages-and-files.html?hl=en>
                      > for more information and other options for storing your content.

                      Link in above leads to:
                      http://groups-announcements.blogspot.com/2010/09/notice-about-pages-and-files.html?hl=en
                      saying (in part):
                      > For example, you can create your pages on Google Sites and share the
                      > site
                      > <http://www.google.com/support/sites/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=174623> with
                      > the members of your group. You can also store your files on the site
                      > by attaching files to pages
                      > <http://www.google.com/support/sites/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=90563>
                      > on the site. If you're just looking for a place to upload files so
                      > that your group members can download them, we suggest you try using
                      > Google Docs. You can upload files
                      > <http://docs.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=50092> and
                      > share access with either a group
                      > <http://docs.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=66343> or
                      > anindividual
                      > <http://docs.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=86152>,
                      > assigning either edit or download only access to the files.


                      So for the NTB-clips group we'd just (I think) create a Google Documents
                      account, give read-write to group members and put a link on group
                      header. It might take a bit of playing around to get this setup so
                      original up-loaders and "owner" can delete/modify w/o allowing same
                      privilege to members and large but presumably it would somehow be possible.

                      Hopefully it won't come to this and Yahoo groups will be there for some
                      time to come, assuming Yahoo itself still continues to exist. :-)

                      --
                      Regards ... Alec (buralex@gmail& WinLiveMess - alec.m.burgess@skype)



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Alec Burgess
                      ... It appears there is some commitment by Yahoo management to address some/most(?) of the complaints. On the Y-Mail interface it looks like the paint is
                      Message 10 of 29 , Sep 25, 2010
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                        On 2010-09-25 02:59, Sheri wrote:
                        > You can join this group to experience the latest revision of the new
                        > interface.
                        >
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Y-Mail
                        It appears there is some commitment by Yahoo management to address
                        some/most(?) of the complaints. On the Y-Mail interface it looks like
                        the "paint is still drying" on some features (eg Files). Hopefully it
                        doesn't get rolled out to the Notetab collection of groups too soon!

                        --
                        Regards ... Alec (buralex@gmail& WinLiveMess - alec.m.burgess@skype)
                      • Greg Chapman
                        ... As I suggested earlier, http://www.nabble.com is definitiely work a look as an alternative, for NoteTab lists, especially if you want to move back to the
                        Message 11 of 29 , Sep 25, 2010
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                          On 25 Sep 10 09:31 Alec Burgess <buralex@...> said:
                          > It appears there is some commitment by Yahoo management to address
                          > some/most(?) of the complaints. On the Y-Mail interface it looks
                          > like the "paint is still drying" on some features (eg Files).
                          > Hopefully it doesn't get rolled out to the Notetab collection of
                          > groups too soon!

                          As I suggested earlier, http://www.nabble.com is definitiely work a
                          look as an alternative, for NoteTab lists, especially if you want to
                          move back to the kind of small company personal service that eGroups
                          (and OneList?) offered, before they were taken over by Yahoo.

                          True - there's no plain text mail service yet, but if others chip in
                          on their support forum here:

                          http://nabble-support.1.n2.nabble.com/Set-mail-to-Plain-Text-from-a-Forum-td5566310.html#a5566310
                          I strongly suspect we'd get a positive result. It's a market
                          opportunity for them.

                          I believe

                          Greg
                        • Adrien Verlee
                          ... I ve a problem with Google and privacy. That is why I m have not a google account or facebook, etc.
                          Message 12 of 29 , Sep 25, 2010
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                            Op 25-sep-10, om 01:21 heeft Alec Burgess het volgende geschreven:

                            > If it comes to that I'd suggest Google Groups. I belong to a number of
                            > them and they seem to work just as well ... at least from the member
                            > facing side. Major problem I'd expect would be loss of members however
                            > the transfer is done.

                            I've a problem with Google and privacy. That is why I'm have not a
                            google account or facebook, etc.
                            http://online.wsj.com/public/page/what-they-know-digital-privacy.html

                            Google is become to big and they have now, for me, a taste of
                            hegemonism/totalitarism.
                            --
                            Adrien
                          • sisterscape
                            Google CEO was on Charlie Rose last night. I recorded it so haven t listened to all of it. What I did hear was pretty disturbing. But that s the way the
                            Message 13 of 29 , Sep 25, 2010
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                              Google CEO was on Charlie Rose last night. I recorded it so haven't listened to all of it. What I did hear was pretty disturbing. But that's the way the internet is going whether it is Google or some other company. Brave new world and all . . .

                              If you have high speed go in and listen.

                              --- On Sat, 9/25/10, Adrien Verlee <adrien.verlee@...> wrote:

                              > From: Adrien Verlee <adrien.verlee@...>
                              > Subject: Re: [NTO] Re: Yahoo Groups down the drain?
                              > To: ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Saturday, September 25, 2010, 4:32 AM
                              > Op 25-sep-10, om 01:21 heeft Alec
                              > Burgess het volgende geschreven:
                              >
                              > > If it comes to that I'd suggest Google Groups. I
                              > belong to a number of
                              > > them and they seem to work just as well ... at least
                              > from the member
                              > > facing side. Major problem I'd expect would be loss of
                              > members however
                              > > the transfer is done.
                              >
                              > I've a problem with Google and privacy. That is why I'm
                              > have not a 
                              > google account or facebook, etc.
                              > http://online.wsj.com/public/page/what-they-know-digital-privacy.html
                              >
                              > Google is become to big and they have now, for me, a taste
                              > of 
                              > hegemonism/totalitarism.
                              > --
                              > Adrien
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >     ntb-OffTopic-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Axel Berger
                              ... Personally I dislike Google as much as Yahoo. I also don t understand why people don t host films they want to share themselves rather than use Youtube - I
                              Message 14 of 29 , Sep 25, 2010
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                                Alec Burgess wrote:
                                > > it ought to be possible to install some mailing-lists there.
                                > If it comes to that I'd suggest Google Groups.

                                Personally I dislike Google as much as Yahoo. I also don't understand
                                why people don't host films they want to share themselves rather than
                                use Youtube - I do. Youtube is a forum for anonymous copyright
                                infringements and as such inherently criminal in my view. My view on
                                mailing lists is similar.

                                But whatever shall be done, the important thing here are the members and
                                not the hoster and I shall accept whatever you all decide on.

                                Axel
                              • loro
                                ... Easy. A. Not everyone has a website to host them on, neither do they want one. B. Movies are big, take a lot of storage and transfer if they get popular
                                Message 15 of 29 , Sep 25, 2010
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                                  Axel Berger wrote:
                                  >I also don't understand
                                  >why people don't host films they want to share themselves rather than
                                  >use Youtube

                                  Easy.

                                  A. Not everyone has a website to host them on, neither do they want one.

                                  B. Movies are big, take a lot of storage and transfer if they get
                                  popular and can't easily be blocked from hotlinking. YouTube is free
                                  and carefree.

                                  C. The viral factor. If your main goal is reach, you'll get
                                  thousandfold the views on YouTube than most people would on their own sites.

                                  D. Sharing. The easy-to-embed feature.

                                  But I agree with what has been said. Google has gotten too big and
                                  too nosy. Most annoying is that their main product, the web search,
                                  has become a mares nest of obscured "features" you have to opt out
                                  from and you can only hope to hear about them or you won't even have
                                  an idea they are there. For example the horrible customized search.
                                  Why would anyone want certain sites at the top of the search result
                                  just because they have clicked through to them before? Beats me.

                                  Regarding Yahoo! Groups, let's wait and see what happens. Most of the
                                  things mentioned would affect only a minor part of users.

                                  Lotta
                                • Sheri
                                  ... Re commitment, keep in mind that Yahoo s Mail and Groups projects are separate. The Groups project isn t even using a Group in its communication. From what
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Sep 25, 2010
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                                    On 9/25/2010 4:31 AM, Alec Burgess wrote:
                                    > On 2010-09-25 02:59, Sheri wrote:
                                    >> You can join this group to experience the latest revision of the new
                                    >> interface.
                                    >>
                                    >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Y-Mail
                                    > It appears there is some commitment by Yahoo management to address
                                    > some/most(?) of the complaints. On the Y-Mail interface it looks like
                                    > the "paint is still drying" on some features (eg Files). Hopefully it
                                    > doesn't get rolled out to the Notetab collection of groups too soon!
                                    >
                                    Re commitment, keep in mind that Yahoo's Mail and Groups projects are
                                    separate. The Groups project isn't even using a Group in its
                                    communication. From what I understand the YMail Group is a user group,
                                    but some Yahoo Mail project personnel are participating there.

                                    The only places you get the drying paint dialog is on Group features
                                    that haven't yet been touched, that are still using the old interface.

                                    Another link:
                                    <http://content.usatoday.com/communities/technologylive/comments/2010/09/readers-what-would-you-like-to-ask-yahoo-ceo-carol-bartz/2>

                                    I'm very disheartened by the aesthetics of the new interface (hate the
                                    avatars, the narrow text width, the font size, the date at the bottom
                                    instead of top the posts, the animated busy ringo on every click, the
                                    endless requirement for clicking, etc.

                                    At least text in the latest revision responds to zooming. Anyway, all
                                    that can hopefully be avoided by participating via email. To me the
                                    worst thing is the virtual uselessness of the online archive in this
                                    "brave new world". Can't link to a specific reply even if you do manage
                                    to locate it (which is doubtful in the sea of "conversations"). Also
                                    existing links to gems in the archives aren't going to work any more.

                                    Regards,
                                    Sheri*
                                    *
                                  • tf_ntp
                                    My two cents: NoteTab users benefit from a robust user group with plenty of active participation. I have been involved since version 3 and although I don t
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Sep 25, 2010
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                                      My two cents:

                                      NoteTab users benefit from a robust user group with plenty of active participation. I have been involved since version 3 and although I don't participate as much as I did in earlier days when I was first learning clip code, I still monitor the chatter and comment when I think I may have something to contribute.

                                      I have never really liked Yahoo Groups. When there are problems we are always at the mercy of their repair schedule. I think it would be much better to run the groups from Fookes server as an adjunct of the main NoteTab website.

                                      I think a newer-tech venue would work better than the "improved BB" that is Yahoo Groups. A blog would be simple to install, access, and moderate. Or a Facebook-style format, but hosted on a server under NoteTab control. Google would include the same built-in problems as Yahoo.

                                      I think Twitter could be used for urgent help requests, and group members would have more choices to receive requests - even on their cell phone.

                                      I already get 800+ emails a day and would rather not need to use email to stay in touch with Notetab, especially when newer tech with better filters is readily available.

                                      I think the Messages archive now on Yahoo should be converted to be accessible and searchable from the new venue. Now would be the time to organize the old messages by NoteTab version.

                                      At any rate now is the time to make a change for the long term. Without direct control of the technology and content we will be changing this again and again as time passes.

                                      Regards to all,

                                      tf
                                    • sisterscape
                                      Well them, make it your own. Or someone else may have created a style already. That s what Stylish and AdBlock are for. Here s how my TV Guide grid looks.
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Sep 25, 2010
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                                        Well them, make it your own. Or someone else may have created a style already. That's what Stylish and AdBlock are for. Here's how my TV Guide grid looks. That's all I see when I pull it up. Nothing else on the page. Heavenly!!

                                        http://www.eartherdesigns.com/ss/tvg.jpg


                                        --- On Sat, 9/25/10, Sheri <silvermoonwoman@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I'm very disheartened by the aesthetics of the new
                                        > interface (hate the
                                        > avatars, the narrow text width, the font size, the date at
                                        > the bottom
                                        > instead of top the posts, the animated busy ringo on every
                                        > click, the
                                        > endless requirement for clicking, etc.
                                      • Sheri
                                        They called it off! Yea! Regards, Sheri
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Oct 2, 2010
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                                          They called it off! Yea!

                                          <http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/?p=958>

                                          Regards,
                                          Sheri
                                        • Julie
                                          That s amazing to me that they are that responsive. Totally wasn t expecting that! Julie
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Oct 2, 2010
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                                            That's amazing to me that they are that responsive. Totally wasn't
                                            expecting that!

                                            Julie

                                            At 10/2/2010 11:06 AM, Sheri wrote:
                                            >They called it off! Yea!
                                            >
                                            ><http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/?p=958>
                                            >
                                            >Regards,
                                            >Sheri
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >------------------------------------
                                            >
                                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • sisterscape
                                            Now if Google would just get a clue and listen to their users!
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Oct 2, 2010
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                                              Now if Google would just get a clue and listen to their users!

                                              --- On Sat, 10/2/10, Julie <gleits@...> wrote:

                                              > From: Julie <gleits@...>
                                              > Subject: Re: [NTO] Re: Yahoo Groups down the drain?
                                              > To: ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Cc: ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Date: Saturday, October 2, 2010, 10:20 AM
                                              > That's amazing to me that they are
                                              > that responsive. Totally wasn't
                                              > expecting that!
                                              >
                                              > Julie
                                              >
                                              >
                                            • Sheri
                                              ... Hard for me to judge it as responsive given the time and extent of user protest but I m sure happy they finally responded at all.
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Oct 2, 2010
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                                                --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, Julie <gleits@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > That's amazing to me that they are that responsive. Totally wasn't
                                                > expecting that!
                                                >
                                                > Julie

                                                Hard for me to judge it as responsive given the time and extent of user protest but I'm sure happy they finally responded at all.
                                              • Axel Berger
                                                ... If I ran a company, I d rather listen to those who pay for my wages. We are not Google s customers, we re just a necessary evil for them to have something
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Oct 2, 2010
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                                                  sisterscape wrote:
                                                  > Now if Google would just get a clue and listen to their users!

                                                  If I ran a company, I'd rather listen to those who pay for my wages. We
                                                  are not Google's customers, we're just a necessary evil for them to have
                                                  something to offer to their real customers.
                                                  Same with Yahoo.

                                                  Axel
                                                • fw7oaks
                                                  ... Yes, but if Google & Co don t listen to us they run the risk of us voting with our mice and clicking elsewhere and then the folks that fund Google will
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Oct 2, 2010
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                                                    --- On Sat, 10/2/10, Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...> wrote:

                                                    > If I ran a company, I'd rather listen to those who pay for my wages.
                                                    > We are not Google's customers, we're just a necessary evil for them
                                                    > to have something to offer to their real customers.

                                                    Yes, but if Google & Co don't listen to us they run the risk of us voting with our mice and clicking elsewhere and then the folks that fund Google will follow us, so it pays for Google to listen, even if we don't *directly* line their pockets.

                                                    fw
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