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Re: [NTO] deleted dmusic.sys by mistake - oops!

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  • Mike Breiding - Morgantown WV
    ... Scary. I got whacked about a year ago with all kinds of assaults. Although I have been using ZoneAlarm for years there were times when I had it disabled. I
    Message 1 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
      loro wrote:
      > Worth to mention is that I uninstalled my firewall the other day
      > because it was causing too much trouble. I've read a lot of articles
      > claiming that the FW in the router is enough for threats from
      > outside. I wonder if it was just a coincidence that I got my first
      > real virus when I didn't run a software FW?

      Scary.
      I got whacked about a year ago with all kinds of assaults.
      Although I have been using ZoneAlarm for years there were times when I
      had it disabled.

      I now use ZA, Avast, and SUPEREAntiSpyware.

      ZA routinely blocks unauthorized access and Avast has found more than
      one Trojan attached to bogus emails and web sites.

      I know there are lots of AV/Fireall combos which can be used and you
      will get more than one recommendations.
      Maybe mine works great, maybe I have just been lucky.

      I hope things get back to normal for you soon.

      -Mike
      www.EpicRoadTrips.us
    • loro
      ... Do you have the Paid version of Avast? ... Maybe mine did too, as long as I kept them installed... :-o I had Sunbelt. Before that I think it was Comodo.
      Message 2 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
        Mike Breiding wrote:
        >I now use ZA, Avast, and SUPEREAntiSpyware.
        >
        >ZA routinely blocks unauthorized access and Avast has found more than
        >one Trojan attached to bogus emails and web sites.

        Do you have the Paid version of Avast?

        >I know there are lots of AV/Fireall combos which can be used and you
        >will get more than one recommendations.
        >Maybe mine works great, maybe I have just been lucky.

        Maybe mine did too, as long as I kept them installed... :-o

        I had Sunbelt. Before that I think it was Comodo. Now I'm trying a
        new one from PrivacyWare that seems less of a resource hog and
        haven't caused any programs to lock up or crash yet. I'm disappointed
        though. It felt very nice without the FW. Maybe my router is crap.
        What do I know? Or maybe the trojan had been lurking for a long time
        and first now downloaded something that made me take notice? Fact is,
        my computer is more silent than it has been in a long time now. If
        that's because the trojan or Sunbelt is gone I will never know.

        >I hope things get back to normal for you soon.

        Thank you. I think I got them all.

        Lotta
      • Axel Berger
        ... I have never ever had any malware of any kind (not counting the Netgear card installation that so ruined my system, I had to install from scratch). But
        Message 3 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
          Mike Breiding - Morgantown WV wrote:
          > I now use ZA, Avast, and SUPEREAntiSpyware.

          I have never ever had any malware of any kind (not counting the Netgear
          card installation that so ruined my system, I had to install from
          scratch). But then I refuse to run a "modern", "comfortable" OS that
          just needs to be installed from its original CD and connected to the net
          and that searches for, runs, and installs countless viruses all by
          itself. On my Win98 I have to do all those virus installs manually
          myself. Suits me fine.

          Axel
        • Mick Housel
          And then there s someone like me who uses the modern , comfortable OS but also makes sure that I ve got a good AV and firewall setup and going on all
          Message 4 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
            And then there's someone like me who uses the "modern", "comfortable" OS
            but also makes sure that I've got a good AV and firewall setup and
            going on all machines. I have also NEVER had any viruses or malware,
            knock on wood. I've always been very careful to keep a good AV program
            and at least a software firewall setup and up to date, I'm sure that
            helps. I've been playing with the "brain boxes" (my grandmothers term
            from years gone by) since way before there was anything near a GUI,
            when a mouse was still something that squeaked and ran across the floor
            to keep from getting got by the cat.

            I currently have 7 different systems here at my house and am running XP
            on two boxes, Vista on one laptop, Win7 on 3 machines and MS Server 2008
            on one. On my everyday desktop I'm currently running the paid version of
            AVG, ver. 9. I also have a hardware firewall setup so that makes it much
            more difficult for anyone to force their way in or out.
            I'm not trying to start an argument but don't understand the feeling
            that some folks have that they feel safer running a very old OS and
            feeling like they're more protected that way. There were and still are
            many vulnerabilities and security holes that have long since been fixed
            in later versions of Windows OSs. I'm just perplexed that folks will try
            and run the newest AV programs, etc. but refuse to do the same when it
            cames to the OS. As I said, I'm not trying to start a big argument here,
            just curious as to the reasoning.

            Maybe I read this wrong but do you really believe that the "modern",
            "comfortable" OSs install and then instantly upon connection to the net,
            the OS goes and installs countless viruses as part of it's normal routine?

            Mick

            Axel Berger wrote:
            > I have never ever had any malware of any kind (not counting the Netgear
            > card installation that so ruined my system, I had to install from
            > scratch). But then I refuse to run a "modern", "comfortable" OS that
            > just needs to be installed from its original CD and connected to the net
            > and that searches for, runs, and installs countless viruses all by
            > itself. On my Win98 I have to do all those virus installs manually
            > myself. Suits me fine.
          • loro
            ... I ve lived through 2K and now XP for a couple of years without getting anything either. Well, I did have something once that was somewhat of a problem to
            Message 5 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
              Axel wrote:
              >Mike wrote:
              > > I now use ZA, Avast, and SUPEREAntiSpyware.
              >
              >I have never ever had any malware of any kind (not counting the Netgear
              >card installation that so ruined my system, I had to install from
              >scratch). But then I refuse to run a "modern", "comfortable" OS that
              >just needs to be installed from its original CD and connected to the net
              >and that searches for, runs, and installs countless viruses all by
              >itself. On my Win98 I have to do all those virus installs manually
              >myself. Suits me fine.

              I've lived through 2K and now XP for a couple of years without
              getting anything either. Well, I did have something once that was
              somewhat of a problem to get rid of, but I don't remember the
              details. AFAIR it wasn't certain it was a virus in the first place
              and it didn't *do* anything.

              In what way do you mean modern Windows itself installs the viruses?
              Sound like something I need to learn about.

              BTW do know anything about this router firewall matter? I would like
              to run without a software firewall, but after this I don't know if I dare to.

              Lotta
            • Mike Breiding - Morgantown WV
              ... Nope. Registered HOME version. -mb
              Message 6 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
                loro wrote:

                >
                > Mike Breiding wrote:
                > >I now use ZA, Avast, and SUPEREAntiSpyware.
                > >
                > >ZA routinely blocks unauthorized access and Avast has found more than
                > >one Trojan attached to bogus emails and web sites.
                >
                > Do you have the Paid version of Avast?

                Nope. Registered HOME version.
                -mb
              • Axel Berger
                ... Yes, it s a well documented fact. Of course the actively install is a bit of freedom with speech. What really happens, as far as I understood, is that
                Message 7 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
                  Mick Housel wrote:
                  > Maybe I read this wrong but do you really believe that the "modern",
                  > "comfortable" OSs install and then instantly upon connection to the
                  > net, the OS goes and installs countless viruses as part of it's
                  > normal routine?

                  Yes, it's a well documented fact. Of course the "actively install" is a
                  bit of freedom with speech. What really happens, as far as I understood,
                  is that there are some server functionalities built in, that the normal
                  single user neither uses nor needs but that mayn viruses know to put to
                  very good use. And of course this is true for naked CD installs without
                  the later service packs. If you have one of those, need to reinstall and
                  need the net to get those updates, you're in trouble.

                  > but also makes sure that I've got a good AV and firewall
                  > setup and going on all machines.

                  Me specialty in engineering was nuclear reactors. There is a huge
                  difference between active and passive security. A sodium cooled fast
                  breeder needs active security controls and can run away if they fail. Of
                  course all these are redundant and divers (i.e. different brands and
                  technologies, so that not all will fail for the same reason) and it is
                  made very safe. But our own pebble bed design from Aachen made it
                  possible to withdraw all control rods (full power), shut off all cooling
                  and do nothing. All it needs to stay safe is the continued validity of
                  the laws of physics.
                  Of course a good AV software is worth a lot and you may hope, you'll
                  always be supplied with the relevant signatures before that malware
                  arrives on your machine. I prefer there simply not to be a hook or entry
                  for it to attack. Anything that doesn't exist can't be abused.

                  Axel
                • Axel Berger
                  ... I believe I do, but hope I ll be corrected if I spout nonsense. With a router the router has a public IP-address assigned by your provider and all
                  Message 8 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
                    loro wrote:
                    > BTW do know anything about this router firewall matter?

                    I believe I do, but hope I'll be corrected if I spout nonsense. With a
                    router the router has a public IP-address assigned by your provider and
                    all connected computers have local addresses assigned by the router (or
                    by yourself, if you turn the automatism off). So for any packet arriving
                    from outside the router needs to know, which computer to forward it to.
                    It does this by monitoring the requests you yourself make to outside
                    servers and routes the answers back. Thus any unsolicited packets can't
                    be assigned and are rejected.

                    (If you want to run a webserver or FTP-server or anything like that, you
                    need to program some specific forwarding into the router yourself.)

                    This takes care of the new capabilties introduced with XP. I believe,
                    but am not sure, 98 is safe from those even without a router. And of
                    course all I described is true only for a totally unsecured computer
                    running XP without any service packs - but that's exactly what you get
                    by installing from CD and connecting to get the updates from the net.
                    Typically the malware is faster than the installs, but a router does a
                    lot to protect.

                    Of course none of all that protects you from actively clicking a
                    contaminated site with scripting allowed, but you knew that already.

                    Axel
                  • Sheri
                    ... I believe a router firewall is only blocking uninvited inbound traffic. A software firewall probably doesn t see any unauthorized inbound traffic if you
                    Message 9 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
                      --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, loro <tabbie@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > BTW do know anything about this router firewall matter? I would
                      > like to run without a software firewall, but after this I don't
                      > know if I dare to.

                      I believe a router firewall is only blocking uninvited inbound traffic. A software firewall probably doesn't see any unauthorized inbound traffic if you have a router firewall in place. However a good software firewall can still block, allow or prompt for permission on outbound traffic. You should be able to configure it as to how to handle each app's attempts to make outbound connections.

                      Regards,
                      Sheri
                    • Mike Breiding - Morgantown WV
                      ... With Zone Alarm any requests are for outside access are handled with a pop up and you allow or disallow that instance only, or all which are requested by
                      Message 10 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
                        Sheri wrote:
                        > However a good software
                        > firewall can still block, allow or prompt for permission on outbound
                        > traffic. You should be able to configure it as to how to handle each
                        > app's attempts to make outbound connections. Regards, Sheri

                        With Zone Alarm any requests are for outside access are handled with a
                        pop up and you allow or disallow that instance only, or all which are
                        requested by that particular app in the future.

                        -mb
                      • loro
                        ... Yes, it s theats from the outside I m asking about. ... Mine did. Maybe that s a sign the router isn t configured properly, I don t know. Lotta
                        Message 11 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
                          Sheri wrote:
                          > > BTW do know anything about this router firewall matter? I would
                          > > like to run without a software firewall, but after this I don't
                          > > know if I dare to.
                          >
                          >I believe a router firewall is only blocking uninvited inbound traffic.

                          Yes, it's theats from the outside I'm asking about.

                          > A software firewall probably doesn't see any unauthorized inbound
                          > traffic if you have a router firewall in place.

                          Mine did. Maybe that's a sign the router isn't configured properly, I
                          don't know.

                          Lotta
                        • Mick Housel
                          ... Huh? It s a well known fact that when you download various updates, etc. for Windows OS from Microsoft, they install known viruses? ... I know absolutely
                          Message 12 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
                            Axel Berger wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Mick Housel wrote:
                            > > Maybe I read this wrong but do you really believe that the "modern",
                            > > "comfortable" OSs install and then instantly upon connection to the
                            > > net, the OS goes and installs countless viruses as part of it's
                            > > normal routine?
                            >
                            > Yes, it's a well documented fact. Of course the "actively install" is a
                            > bit of freedom with speech. What really happens, as far as I understood,
                            > is that there are some server functionalities built in, that the normal
                            > single user neither uses nor needs but that mayn viruses know to put to
                            > very good use. And of course this is true for naked CD installs without
                            > the later service packs. If you have one of those, need to reinstall and
                            > need the net to get those updates, you're in trouble.

                            Huh? It's a well known fact that when you download various updates,
                            etc. for Windows OS' from Microsoft, they install known viruses?

                            > > but also makes sure that I've got a good AV and firewall
                            > > setup and going on all machines.
                            >
                            > Me specialty in engineering was nuclear reactors. There is a huge
                            > difference between active and passive security. A sodium cooled fast
                            > breeder needs active security controls and can run away if they fail. Of
                            > course all these are redundant and divers (i.e. different brands and
                            > technologies, so that not all will fail for the same reason) and it is
                            > made very safe. But our own pebble bed design from Aachen made it
                            > possible to withdraw all control rods (full power), shut off all cooling
                            > and do nothing. All it needs to stay safe is the continued validity of
                            > the laws of physics.
                            > Of course a good AV software is worth a lot and you may hope, you'll
                            > always be supplied with the relevant signatures before that malware
                            > arrives on your machine. I prefer there simply not to be a hook or entry
                            > for it to attack. Anything that doesn't exist can't be abused.

                            I know absolutely nothing about nuclear reactors or anything of that
                            nature. However, I do know computer and network security. And when it
                            comes to either, there's no such thing as a system that's 100% secure.
                            Some of you may have heard about the BSoD (Blue Screen of Death) that
                            was "caused" by a Microsoft patch for a vulnerability that went all the
                            way back to the Win98 time period. It was soon discovered that it wasn't
                            a flaw in the patch but rather that the machines that were affected had
                            malware that was causing the issue. Within hours, the hackers of that
                            malware had issued an update that fixed the issue. After all, they don't
                            want their access/information feed to stop and that's what happens when
                            the infected machines stop running. My point is that even if you think
                            you're fully 100% protected, you aren't and things can happen.

                            There's a 16 year old kid in Alabama that kept pinging at and trying to
                            break through my firewall. He was warned numerous times to stop and not
                            go further. Finally, I made the call with the info that the authorities
                            needed to locate him. He swears he was just curious and he was lucky as
                            he didn't end up in jail/prison for an extended period of time.
                            Nowadays, trying to break into anyone's network/computer can be
                            considered to be a terrorist activity. Not something anyone really wants
                            to be charged with. This type of thing happens quite regularly, most of
                            them will not keep working on a tightly protected network once they
                            realize they're not going to get in.

                            Personally, I *know* that it's better to run one of the later OS's and
                            to have updated as much as possible. The same is true with most
                            browsers, they fix and update security breaches in them as they find
                            them so having the newer versions is generally a good thing unless it
                            causes plugins, etc. to not work.

                            Of course, this is only my opinion based on my experiences and
                            knowledge. YMMV.

                            Mick
                          • loro
                            ... No, that s one of the things I wasn t sure about, but I did know the rest. I guess that could be the explanation to how I got the crap, couldn t it? Most
                            Message 13 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
                              Axel wrote:
                              >Of course none of all that protects you from actively clicking a
                              >contaminated site with scripting allowed, but you knew that already.

                              No, that's one of the things I wasn't sure about, but I did know the
                              rest. I guess that could be the explanation to how I got the crap,
                              couldn't it? Most software firewalls I've had warn about things like
                              that, even if they most often do it when the evil stuff already is on
                              your HD,but at least you can get rid of it fast enough. Maybe that's
                              a reason to keep a software FW.

                              I find them quite bothersome. Every new one you try do things
                              differently and it's time consuming to learn how they work in detail.
                              You think you've found a good one that don't slow things down too
                              much, then you upgrade and it has turned into a monster that does
                              everything but play cartoons. And the search for a program that is to
                              more use than harm starts again... AV is the same.

                              Lotta
                            • Mick Housel
                              Most routers don t have a hardware firewall built in. They may be able to block some ports through the router software but lower priced routers don t have a
                              Message 14 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
                                Most routers don't have a hardware firewall built in. They may be able
                                to block some ports through the router software but lower priced routers
                                don't have a built in firewall.

                                One of the best free software firewalls available was from the Comodo
                                folks. I'm not sure if they still have it or not but it was better than
                                most free ones. I know Zone Alarm is another popular choice but I've
                                seen issues on some systems that try to run ZA, just like many have
                                issues with Norton/Symantec. It all depends on the system details as
                                well as what's installed on the system.

                                Locking down outgoing ports through a firewall can help in the fact that
                                it might stop some type of infection from communicating with it's
                                "parent" outside.

                                Mick

                                loro wrote:
                                > Sheri wrote:
                                > > > BTW do know anything about this router firewall matter? I would
                                > > > like to run without a software firewall, but after this I don't
                                > > > know if I dare to.
                                > >
                                > >I believe a router firewall is only blocking uninvited inbound traffic.
                                >
                                > Yes, it's theats from the outside I'm asking about.
                                >
                                > > A software firewall probably doesn't see any unauthorized inbound
                                > > traffic if you have a router firewall in place.
                                >
                                > Mine did. Maybe that's a sign the router isn't configured properly, I
                                > don't know.
                                >
                                > Lotta
                              • Mick Housel
                                Running an FTP or webserver is something that should only be done through a hardware firewall and with numerous defensive shields to your machine in place.
                                Message 15 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
                                  Running an FTP or webserver is something that should only be done
                                  through a hardware firewall and with numerous defensive shields to your
                                  machine in place. Allowing that kind of access is just begging for
                                  problems and folks attacking you.

                                  Again, just my opinion and YMMV.

                                  Mick

                                  Axel Berger wrote:
                                  > (If you want to run a webserver or FTP-server or anything like that, you
                                  > need to program some specific forwarding into the router yourself.)
                                • edward
                                  Since ZA sold out they have become more trouble than their worth because of constant ads to upgrade to the paid version. I have the latest in Comodo and am
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
                                    Since ZA sold out they have become more trouble than their worth because of
                                    constant ads to upgrade to the paid version. I have the latest in Comodo and
                                    am well pleased with it. I use the Comodo Suite, it is free for personal
                                    use, business need to purchase if I am not mistaken
                                    Ed B
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Mick Housel" <motomania@...>
                                    To: <ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 3:55 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [NTO] deleted dmusic.sys by mistake - oops!


                                    > Most routers don't have a hardware firewall built in. They may be able
                                    > to block some ports through the router software but lower priced routers
                                    > don't have a built in firewall.
                                    >
                                    > One of the best free software firewalls available was from the Comodo
                                    > folks. I'm not sure if they still have it or not but it was better than
                                    > most free ones. I know Zone Alarm is another popular choice but I've
                                    > seen issues on some systems that try to run ZA, just like many have
                                    > issues with Norton/Symantec. It all depends on the system details as
                                    > well as what's installed on the system.
                                    >
                                    > Locking down outgoing ports through a firewall can help in the fact that
                                    > it might stop some type of infection from communicating with it's
                                    > "parent" outside.
                                    >
                                    > Mick
                                    >
                                    > loro wrote:
                                    >> Sheri wrote:
                                    >> > > BTW do know anything about this router firewall matter? I would
                                    >> > > like to run without a software firewall, but after this I don't
                                    >> > > know if I dare to.
                                    >> >
                                    >> >I believe a router firewall is only blocking uninvited inbound traffic.
                                    >>
                                    >> Yes, it's theats from the outside I'm asking about.
                                    >>
                                    >> > A software firewall probably doesn't see any unauthorized inbound
                                    >> > traffic if you have a router firewall in place.
                                    >>
                                    >> Mine did. Maybe that's a sign the router isn't configured properly, I
                                    >> don't know.
                                    >>
                                    >> Lotta
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • jeff
                                    Anyone else have trouble with the latest Firefox update? Mine is claiming a Javascript error and hangs permanently, requiring a RESET through files manager.
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
                                      Anyone else have trouble with the latest Firefox update?

                                      Mine is claiming a Javascript error and hangs permanently, requiring a
                                      RESET through files manager. (XP Pro)
                                    • Axel Berger
                                      ... Of course not. But if you want to do that you may need to connect an unprotected computer to the net. Viruses will find and infect you in minutes. ... Yes,
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Feb 21, 2010
                                        Mick Housel wrote:
                                        > It's a well known fact that when you download various updates,
                                        > etc. for Windows OS' from Microsoft, they install known viruses?

                                        Of course not. But if you want to do that you may need to connect an
                                        unprotected computer to the net. Viruses will find and infect you in
                                        minutes.

                                        > There's a 16 year old kid in Alabama that kept pinging at and
                                        > trying to break through my firewall.

                                        Yes, when dealing with sentient beings actively targeting me then my
                                        old, less sophisticated and long known OS will be very easy to break.
                                        The thread so far was about automated and of necessity small malware
                                        programs. Here using minority software and setting up differently from
                                        the defaults will alone offer a lot of protection from anything coursing
                                        in the wild.

                                        And I still maintain that most of current malware, that does not require
                                        user interation, makes use of OS features that my old OS simply does not
                                        have. What's not there needs not be made secure. As an extreme example
                                        (extreme for you and me, standard for all companies that have something
                                        to protect): Keep any machine containing sensitive information out of
                                        all networks and run it standing alone.

                                        > Personally, I *know* that it's better to run one of the later
                                        > OS's and to have updated as much as possible.

                                        Some time ago one of the main advisors of our university computing
                                        centre confirmed, that Win98 does not have the capability of being
                                        attacked without user action. His tone was a little condescending, as if
                                        confirming that CP/M too was safe from current viuses, but still, so far
                                        Win98 does all I need. I'll need to move to Linux some day soon, I'm not
                                        prepared to phone Mr. Gates every time I change my hardware, but so far
                                        I keep putting it off.

                                        Axel
                                      • fw7oaks
                                        ... [snip] ... Those were the days, Axel, all the OS you needed from a 5¼ inch 360k floppy. fw
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Feb 21, 2010
                                          --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...> wrote:

                                          [snip]

                                          > His tone was a little condescending, as if confirming that CP/M too
                                          > was safe from current viuses,

                                          Those were the days, Axel, all the OS you needed from a 5¼ inch 360k floppy.

                                          fw
                                        • Stephen Riddle
                                          ... Uh, that s still true. All we really n e e d was around in 1990. It s the fun stuff that gets us down.
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Feb 21, 2010
                                            > > [snip]
                                            > > His tone was a little condescending, as if confirming that CP/M too
                                            > > was safe from current viuses,

                                            > Those were the days, Axel, all the OS you needed from a 5¼ inch 360k floppy.
                                            >
                                            Uh, that's still true. All we really n e e d was around in 1990. It's the fun stuff that gets us down.
                                          • Axel Berger
                                            ... Although that goes against all my prejudices and instincts I disagree here. Of course in the strongest sense we don t need a computer at all. I still write
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Feb 21, 2010
                                              Stephen Riddle wrote:
                                              > All we really n e e d was around in 1990. It's the fun
                                              > stuff that gets us down.

                                              Although that goes against all my prejudices and instincts I disagree
                                              here. Of course in the strongest sense we don't need a computer at all.
                                              I still write my letters using a simple text editor and the built-in
                                              unproportional printer fonts. A several dozens of megabytes office suite
                                              only adds bells and whistles and often makes the end product worse. But
                                              my father recorded radio programs onto reel-to-reel tape and so did I
                                              until about 1995. I then changed to DAT digital tape and was very
                                              disappointed, the mechanics just did not last under heavy use. I now use
                                              computers and good sound cards throughout. I began burning MP3-CDs but
                                              now all data and backups are on several harddisks, that continue to
                                              become bigger and cheaper.
                                              In a way that is a need served. It used to be out of the reach of home
                                              computing and now is well within. Something similar is watching films on
                                              DVD, I have no other equipment to do that, no TV, and no VHS.

                                              So yes, there are new capabilities and they do call for buying new and
                                              higher powered equipment, but there are not too many of these. There
                                              rarely is any improvement on what older machines did well already.

                                              Axel
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