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Re: [NTO] deleted dmusic.sys by mistake - oops!

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  • Alex Plantema
    ... I uploaded it to this group s files area. It s from XP Home SP 3. I zipped it to preserve the original date and time. Alex.
    Message 1 of 26 , Feb 19, 2010
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      Op vrijdag 19 februari 2010 21:06 schreef loro:

      > My AV went berserk, and I did too, and I let it delete dmusic.sys . I
      > googled and found that a missing dmusic.sys can stop Windows from
      > working, so now I don't dare to reboot. I don't want to download
      > system files from the net. Does anyone know where to find it on the
      > XP installation CD? It's in one of those cabs, right? Or maybe
      > someone could send me a copy of theirs. That would be great. I'm on
      > XP Home if that makes any difference. The path is
      > C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\dmusic.sys .

      I uploaded it to this group's files area. It's from XP Home SP 3.
      I zipped it to preserve the original date and time.

      Alex.
    • loro
      ... Thank you so much, Alex. I ll go get it. Lotta
      Message 2 of 26 , Feb 19, 2010
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        Alex Plantema wrote:
        >I uploaded it to this group's files area. It's from XP Home SP 3.
        >I zipped it to preserve the original date and time.

        Thank you so much, Alex. I'll go get it.

        Lotta
      • hsavage
        ... Lotta, If Alex P. upload doesn t help I found copies in both these folders; C: WINDOWS system32 drivers DMusic.sys C: WINDOWS system32 dllcache dmusic.sys
        Message 3 of 26 , Feb 19, 2010
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          loro wrote:
          > Hi,
          >
          > My AV went berserk, and I did too, and I let it delete dmusic.sys . I
          > googled and found that a missing dmusic.sys can stop Windows from
          > working, so now I don't dare to reboot. I don't want to download
          > system files from the net. Does anyone know where to find it on the
          > XP installation CD? It's in one of those cabs, right? Or maybe
          > someone could send me a copy of theirs. That would be great. I'm on
          > XP Home if that makes any difference. The path is
          > C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\dmusic.sys .
          >
          > TIA
          > Lotta

          Lotta,

          If Alex P. upload doesn't help I found copies in both these folders;

          C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\DMusic.sys
          C:\WINDOWS\system32\dllcache\dmusic.sys

          Perhaps you may have 1 of them.

          ·············································
          ºvº SL_day# 050 - created 2010.02.19_16.28.32

          Better to do a little well, than a great deal badly done.
          • Socrates

          € hrs € hsavage € pobox € com

          >
        • loro
          ... Actually, it turned out I didn t need it. Maybe I looked for it in system32 instead of system32 drivers . When I was going to put Alex s file there it
          Message 4 of 26 , Feb 19, 2010
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            Harvey wrote:
            >If Alex P. upload doesn't help I found copies in both these folders;
            >
            >C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\DMusic.sys
            >C:\WINDOWS\system32\dllcache\dmusic.sys
            >
            >Perhaps you may have 1 of them.


            Actually, it turned out I didn't need it. Maybe I looked for it in
            system32 instead of system32\drivers\ . When I was going to put
            Alex's file there it turned out there already was one. So it seems
            Avira didn't do (or manage to do) any of the things it said. I was
            pretty stressed out because something worked the processor to its max
            and everything slowed down. I was afraid I would have to reboot,
            which I'm told the worse thing to do when you think you have a virus.

            Eventually everything froze up and I had to hit the reboot button on
            the case. Then I really had it. I peculiar antivirus-like app called
            Security Tool popped up. It spawned new windows and forced me to
            click buttons all the time. I checked for odd processes in Task
            Manager and googled them and it turned out I had _ex-08.exe. Followed
            cleaning instructions and the Security Tool went away, but the
            processor still worked like mad when I connected to the internet.
            Sophos Anti-Rootkit found monnid32.exe in the startup folder. Now
            things seem to have cooled down. I just wonder what they had time to do.

            Worth to mention is that I uninstalled my firewall the other day
            because it was causing too much trouble. I've read a lot of articles
            claiming that the FW in the router is enough for threats from
            outside. I wonder if it was just a coincidence that I got my first
            real virus when I didn't run a software FW?

            Anyway, thanks for your help, guys. Even if it turned out I didn't
            need your file Alex, it made me feel secure to have it, made me act a
            little more rationally, so it helped. And boy was I happy for my
            little Netbook. Every time I've had computer problems before I have
            only had the one computer. That has always been the worst, fearing
            that I won't be able to google and ask for help. As long as one can
            access the net, everything will eventually be well again.

            Now I'm going to connect and send this. Hopefully the processor won't
            hit 100%. Touch wood.

            Lotta
          • Mike Breiding - Morgantown WV
            ... Scary. I got whacked about a year ago with all kinds of assaults. Although I have been using ZoneAlarm for years there were times when I had it disabled. I
            Message 5 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
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              loro wrote:
              > Worth to mention is that I uninstalled my firewall the other day
              > because it was causing too much trouble. I've read a lot of articles
              > claiming that the FW in the router is enough for threats from
              > outside. I wonder if it was just a coincidence that I got my first
              > real virus when I didn't run a software FW?

              Scary.
              I got whacked about a year ago with all kinds of assaults.
              Although I have been using ZoneAlarm for years there were times when I
              had it disabled.

              I now use ZA, Avast, and SUPEREAntiSpyware.

              ZA routinely blocks unauthorized access and Avast has found more than
              one Trojan attached to bogus emails and web sites.

              I know there are lots of AV/Fireall combos which can be used and you
              will get more than one recommendations.
              Maybe mine works great, maybe I have just been lucky.

              I hope things get back to normal for you soon.

              -Mike
              www.EpicRoadTrips.us
            • loro
              ... Do you have the Paid version of Avast? ... Maybe mine did too, as long as I kept them installed... :-o I had Sunbelt. Before that I think it was Comodo.
              Message 6 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
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                Mike Breiding wrote:
                >I now use ZA, Avast, and SUPEREAntiSpyware.
                >
                >ZA routinely blocks unauthorized access and Avast has found more than
                >one Trojan attached to bogus emails and web sites.

                Do you have the Paid version of Avast?

                >I know there are lots of AV/Fireall combos which can be used and you
                >will get more than one recommendations.
                >Maybe mine works great, maybe I have just been lucky.

                Maybe mine did too, as long as I kept them installed... :-o

                I had Sunbelt. Before that I think it was Comodo. Now I'm trying a
                new one from PrivacyWare that seems less of a resource hog and
                haven't caused any programs to lock up or crash yet. I'm disappointed
                though. It felt very nice without the FW. Maybe my router is crap.
                What do I know? Or maybe the trojan had been lurking for a long time
                and first now downloaded something that made me take notice? Fact is,
                my computer is more silent than it has been in a long time now. If
                that's because the trojan or Sunbelt is gone I will never know.

                >I hope things get back to normal for you soon.

                Thank you. I think I got them all.

                Lotta
              • Axel Berger
                ... I have never ever had any malware of any kind (not counting the Netgear card installation that so ruined my system, I had to install from scratch). But
                Message 7 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
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                  Mike Breiding - Morgantown WV wrote:
                  > I now use ZA, Avast, and SUPEREAntiSpyware.

                  I have never ever had any malware of any kind (not counting the Netgear
                  card installation that so ruined my system, I had to install from
                  scratch). But then I refuse to run a "modern", "comfortable" OS that
                  just needs to be installed from its original CD and connected to the net
                  and that searches for, runs, and installs countless viruses all by
                  itself. On my Win98 I have to do all those virus installs manually
                  myself. Suits me fine.

                  Axel
                • Mick Housel
                  And then there s someone like me who uses the modern , comfortable OS but also makes sure that I ve got a good AV and firewall setup and going on all
                  Message 8 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
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                    And then there's someone like me who uses the "modern", "comfortable" OS
                    but also makes sure that I've got a good AV and firewall setup and
                    going on all machines. I have also NEVER had any viruses or malware,
                    knock on wood. I've always been very careful to keep a good AV program
                    and at least a software firewall setup and up to date, I'm sure that
                    helps. I've been playing with the "brain boxes" (my grandmothers term
                    from years gone by) since way before there was anything near a GUI,
                    when a mouse was still something that squeaked and ran across the floor
                    to keep from getting got by the cat.

                    I currently have 7 different systems here at my house and am running XP
                    on two boxes, Vista on one laptop, Win7 on 3 machines and MS Server 2008
                    on one. On my everyday desktop I'm currently running the paid version of
                    AVG, ver. 9. I also have a hardware firewall setup so that makes it much
                    more difficult for anyone to force their way in or out.
                    I'm not trying to start an argument but don't understand the feeling
                    that some folks have that they feel safer running a very old OS and
                    feeling like they're more protected that way. There were and still are
                    many vulnerabilities and security holes that have long since been fixed
                    in later versions of Windows OSs. I'm just perplexed that folks will try
                    and run the newest AV programs, etc. but refuse to do the same when it
                    cames to the OS. As I said, I'm not trying to start a big argument here,
                    just curious as to the reasoning.

                    Maybe I read this wrong but do you really believe that the "modern",
                    "comfortable" OSs install and then instantly upon connection to the net,
                    the OS goes and installs countless viruses as part of it's normal routine?

                    Mick

                    Axel Berger wrote:
                    > I have never ever had any malware of any kind (not counting the Netgear
                    > card installation that so ruined my system, I had to install from
                    > scratch). But then I refuse to run a "modern", "comfortable" OS that
                    > just needs to be installed from its original CD and connected to the net
                    > and that searches for, runs, and installs countless viruses all by
                    > itself. On my Win98 I have to do all those virus installs manually
                    > myself. Suits me fine.
                  • loro
                    ... I ve lived through 2K and now XP for a couple of years without getting anything either. Well, I did have something once that was somewhat of a problem to
                    Message 9 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
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                      Axel wrote:
                      >Mike wrote:
                      > > I now use ZA, Avast, and SUPEREAntiSpyware.
                      >
                      >I have never ever had any malware of any kind (not counting the Netgear
                      >card installation that so ruined my system, I had to install from
                      >scratch). But then I refuse to run a "modern", "comfortable" OS that
                      >just needs to be installed from its original CD and connected to the net
                      >and that searches for, runs, and installs countless viruses all by
                      >itself. On my Win98 I have to do all those virus installs manually
                      >myself. Suits me fine.

                      I've lived through 2K and now XP for a couple of years without
                      getting anything either. Well, I did have something once that was
                      somewhat of a problem to get rid of, but I don't remember the
                      details. AFAIR it wasn't certain it was a virus in the first place
                      and it didn't *do* anything.

                      In what way do you mean modern Windows itself installs the viruses?
                      Sound like something I need to learn about.

                      BTW do know anything about this router firewall matter? I would like
                      to run without a software firewall, but after this I don't know if I dare to.

                      Lotta
                    • Mike Breiding - Morgantown WV
                      ... Nope. Registered HOME version. -mb
                      Message 10 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
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                        loro wrote:

                        >
                        > Mike Breiding wrote:
                        > >I now use ZA, Avast, and SUPEREAntiSpyware.
                        > >
                        > >ZA routinely blocks unauthorized access and Avast has found more than
                        > >one Trojan attached to bogus emails and web sites.
                        >
                        > Do you have the Paid version of Avast?

                        Nope. Registered HOME version.
                        -mb
                      • Axel Berger
                        ... Yes, it s a well documented fact. Of course the actively install is a bit of freedom with speech. What really happens, as far as I understood, is that
                        Message 11 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
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                          Mick Housel wrote:
                          > Maybe I read this wrong but do you really believe that the "modern",
                          > "comfortable" OSs install and then instantly upon connection to the
                          > net, the OS goes and installs countless viruses as part of it's
                          > normal routine?

                          Yes, it's a well documented fact. Of course the "actively install" is a
                          bit of freedom with speech. What really happens, as far as I understood,
                          is that there are some server functionalities built in, that the normal
                          single user neither uses nor needs but that mayn viruses know to put to
                          very good use. And of course this is true for naked CD installs without
                          the later service packs. If you have one of those, need to reinstall and
                          need the net to get those updates, you're in trouble.

                          > but also makes sure that I've got a good AV and firewall
                          > setup and going on all machines.

                          Me specialty in engineering was nuclear reactors. There is a huge
                          difference between active and passive security. A sodium cooled fast
                          breeder needs active security controls and can run away if they fail. Of
                          course all these are redundant and divers (i.e. different brands and
                          technologies, so that not all will fail for the same reason) and it is
                          made very safe. But our own pebble bed design from Aachen made it
                          possible to withdraw all control rods (full power), shut off all cooling
                          and do nothing. All it needs to stay safe is the continued validity of
                          the laws of physics.
                          Of course a good AV software is worth a lot and you may hope, you'll
                          always be supplied with the relevant signatures before that malware
                          arrives on your machine. I prefer there simply not to be a hook or entry
                          for it to attack. Anything that doesn't exist can't be abused.

                          Axel
                        • Axel Berger
                          ... I believe I do, but hope I ll be corrected if I spout nonsense. With a router the router has a public IP-address assigned by your provider and all
                          Message 12 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
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                            loro wrote:
                            > BTW do know anything about this router firewall matter?

                            I believe I do, but hope I'll be corrected if I spout nonsense. With a
                            router the router has a public IP-address assigned by your provider and
                            all connected computers have local addresses assigned by the router (or
                            by yourself, if you turn the automatism off). So for any packet arriving
                            from outside the router needs to know, which computer to forward it to.
                            It does this by monitoring the requests you yourself make to outside
                            servers and routes the answers back. Thus any unsolicited packets can't
                            be assigned and are rejected.

                            (If you want to run a webserver or FTP-server or anything like that, you
                            need to program some specific forwarding into the router yourself.)

                            This takes care of the new capabilties introduced with XP. I believe,
                            but am not sure, 98 is safe from those even without a router. And of
                            course all I described is true only for a totally unsecured computer
                            running XP without any service packs - but that's exactly what you get
                            by installing from CD and connecting to get the updates from the net.
                            Typically the malware is faster than the installs, but a router does a
                            lot to protect.

                            Of course none of all that protects you from actively clicking a
                            contaminated site with scripting allowed, but you knew that already.

                            Axel
                          • Sheri
                            ... I believe a router firewall is only blocking uninvited inbound traffic. A software firewall probably doesn t see any unauthorized inbound traffic if you
                            Message 13 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
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                              --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, loro <tabbie@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > BTW do know anything about this router firewall matter? I would
                              > like to run without a software firewall, but after this I don't
                              > know if I dare to.

                              I believe a router firewall is only blocking uninvited inbound traffic. A software firewall probably doesn't see any unauthorized inbound traffic if you have a router firewall in place. However a good software firewall can still block, allow or prompt for permission on outbound traffic. You should be able to configure it as to how to handle each app's attempts to make outbound connections.

                              Regards,
                              Sheri
                            • Mike Breiding - Morgantown WV
                              ... With Zone Alarm any requests are for outside access are handled with a pop up and you allow or disallow that instance only, or all which are requested by
                              Message 14 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
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                                Sheri wrote:
                                > However a good software
                                > firewall can still block, allow or prompt for permission on outbound
                                > traffic. You should be able to configure it as to how to handle each
                                > app's attempts to make outbound connections. Regards, Sheri

                                With Zone Alarm any requests are for outside access are handled with a
                                pop up and you allow or disallow that instance only, or all which are
                                requested by that particular app in the future.

                                -mb
                              • loro
                                ... Yes, it s theats from the outside I m asking about. ... Mine did. Maybe that s a sign the router isn t configured properly, I don t know. Lotta
                                Message 15 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
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                                  Sheri wrote:
                                  > > BTW do know anything about this router firewall matter? I would
                                  > > like to run without a software firewall, but after this I don't
                                  > > know if I dare to.
                                  >
                                  >I believe a router firewall is only blocking uninvited inbound traffic.

                                  Yes, it's theats from the outside I'm asking about.

                                  > A software firewall probably doesn't see any unauthorized inbound
                                  > traffic if you have a router firewall in place.

                                  Mine did. Maybe that's a sign the router isn't configured properly, I
                                  don't know.

                                  Lotta
                                • Mick Housel
                                  ... Huh? It s a well known fact that when you download various updates, etc. for Windows OS from Microsoft, they install known viruses? ... I know absolutely
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
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                                    Axel Berger wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Mick Housel wrote:
                                    > > Maybe I read this wrong but do you really believe that the "modern",
                                    > > "comfortable" OSs install and then instantly upon connection to the
                                    > > net, the OS goes and installs countless viruses as part of it's
                                    > > normal routine?
                                    >
                                    > Yes, it's a well documented fact. Of course the "actively install" is a
                                    > bit of freedom with speech. What really happens, as far as I understood,
                                    > is that there are some server functionalities built in, that the normal
                                    > single user neither uses nor needs but that mayn viruses know to put to
                                    > very good use. And of course this is true for naked CD installs without
                                    > the later service packs. If you have one of those, need to reinstall and
                                    > need the net to get those updates, you're in trouble.

                                    Huh? It's a well known fact that when you download various updates,
                                    etc. for Windows OS' from Microsoft, they install known viruses?

                                    > > but also makes sure that I've got a good AV and firewall
                                    > > setup and going on all machines.
                                    >
                                    > Me specialty in engineering was nuclear reactors. There is a huge
                                    > difference between active and passive security. A sodium cooled fast
                                    > breeder needs active security controls and can run away if they fail. Of
                                    > course all these are redundant and divers (i.e. different brands and
                                    > technologies, so that not all will fail for the same reason) and it is
                                    > made very safe. But our own pebble bed design from Aachen made it
                                    > possible to withdraw all control rods (full power), shut off all cooling
                                    > and do nothing. All it needs to stay safe is the continued validity of
                                    > the laws of physics.
                                    > Of course a good AV software is worth a lot and you may hope, you'll
                                    > always be supplied with the relevant signatures before that malware
                                    > arrives on your machine. I prefer there simply not to be a hook or entry
                                    > for it to attack. Anything that doesn't exist can't be abused.

                                    I know absolutely nothing about nuclear reactors or anything of that
                                    nature. However, I do know computer and network security. And when it
                                    comes to either, there's no such thing as a system that's 100% secure.
                                    Some of you may have heard about the BSoD (Blue Screen of Death) that
                                    was "caused" by a Microsoft patch for a vulnerability that went all the
                                    way back to the Win98 time period. It was soon discovered that it wasn't
                                    a flaw in the patch but rather that the machines that were affected had
                                    malware that was causing the issue. Within hours, the hackers of that
                                    malware had issued an update that fixed the issue. After all, they don't
                                    want their access/information feed to stop and that's what happens when
                                    the infected machines stop running. My point is that even if you think
                                    you're fully 100% protected, you aren't and things can happen.

                                    There's a 16 year old kid in Alabama that kept pinging at and trying to
                                    break through my firewall. He was warned numerous times to stop and not
                                    go further. Finally, I made the call with the info that the authorities
                                    needed to locate him. He swears he was just curious and he was lucky as
                                    he didn't end up in jail/prison for an extended period of time.
                                    Nowadays, trying to break into anyone's network/computer can be
                                    considered to be a terrorist activity. Not something anyone really wants
                                    to be charged with. This type of thing happens quite regularly, most of
                                    them will not keep working on a tightly protected network once they
                                    realize they're not going to get in.

                                    Personally, I *know* that it's better to run one of the later OS's and
                                    to have updated as much as possible. The same is true with most
                                    browsers, they fix and update security breaches in them as they find
                                    them so having the newer versions is generally a good thing unless it
                                    causes plugins, etc. to not work.

                                    Of course, this is only my opinion based on my experiences and
                                    knowledge. YMMV.

                                    Mick
                                  • loro
                                    ... No, that s one of the things I wasn t sure about, but I did know the rest. I guess that could be the explanation to how I got the crap, couldn t it? Most
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
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                                      Axel wrote:
                                      >Of course none of all that protects you from actively clicking a
                                      >contaminated site with scripting allowed, but you knew that already.

                                      No, that's one of the things I wasn't sure about, but I did know the
                                      rest. I guess that could be the explanation to how I got the crap,
                                      couldn't it? Most software firewalls I've had warn about things like
                                      that, even if they most often do it when the evil stuff already is on
                                      your HD,but at least you can get rid of it fast enough. Maybe that's
                                      a reason to keep a software FW.

                                      I find them quite bothersome. Every new one you try do things
                                      differently and it's time consuming to learn how they work in detail.
                                      You think you've found a good one that don't slow things down too
                                      much, then you upgrade and it has turned into a monster that does
                                      everything but play cartoons. And the search for a program that is to
                                      more use than harm starts again... AV is the same.

                                      Lotta
                                    • Mick Housel
                                      Most routers don t have a hardware firewall built in. They may be able to block some ports through the router software but lower priced routers don t have a
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
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                                        Most routers don't have a hardware firewall built in. They may be able
                                        to block some ports through the router software but lower priced routers
                                        don't have a built in firewall.

                                        One of the best free software firewalls available was from the Comodo
                                        folks. I'm not sure if they still have it or not but it was better than
                                        most free ones. I know Zone Alarm is another popular choice but I've
                                        seen issues on some systems that try to run ZA, just like many have
                                        issues with Norton/Symantec. It all depends on the system details as
                                        well as what's installed on the system.

                                        Locking down outgoing ports through a firewall can help in the fact that
                                        it might stop some type of infection from communicating with it's
                                        "parent" outside.

                                        Mick

                                        loro wrote:
                                        > Sheri wrote:
                                        > > > BTW do know anything about this router firewall matter? I would
                                        > > > like to run without a software firewall, but after this I don't
                                        > > > know if I dare to.
                                        > >
                                        > >I believe a router firewall is only blocking uninvited inbound traffic.
                                        >
                                        > Yes, it's theats from the outside I'm asking about.
                                        >
                                        > > A software firewall probably doesn't see any unauthorized inbound
                                        > > traffic if you have a router firewall in place.
                                        >
                                        > Mine did. Maybe that's a sign the router isn't configured properly, I
                                        > don't know.
                                        >
                                        > Lotta
                                      • Mick Housel
                                        Running an FTP or webserver is something that should only be done through a hardware firewall and with numerous defensive shields to your machine in place.
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
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                                          Running an FTP or webserver is something that should only be done
                                          through a hardware firewall and with numerous defensive shields to your
                                          machine in place. Allowing that kind of access is just begging for
                                          problems and folks attacking you.

                                          Again, just my opinion and YMMV.

                                          Mick

                                          Axel Berger wrote:
                                          > (If you want to run a webserver or FTP-server or anything like that, you
                                          > need to program some specific forwarding into the router yourself.)
                                        • edward
                                          Since ZA sold out they have become more trouble than their worth because of constant ads to upgrade to the paid version. I have the latest in Comodo and am
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
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                                            Since ZA sold out they have become more trouble than their worth because of
                                            constant ads to upgrade to the paid version. I have the latest in Comodo and
                                            am well pleased with it. I use the Comodo Suite, it is free for personal
                                            use, business need to purchase if I am not mistaken
                                            Ed B
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "Mick Housel" <motomania@...>
                                            To: <ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 3:55 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [NTO] deleted dmusic.sys by mistake - oops!


                                            > Most routers don't have a hardware firewall built in. They may be able
                                            > to block some ports through the router software but lower priced routers
                                            > don't have a built in firewall.
                                            >
                                            > One of the best free software firewalls available was from the Comodo
                                            > folks. I'm not sure if they still have it or not but it was better than
                                            > most free ones. I know Zone Alarm is another popular choice but I've
                                            > seen issues on some systems that try to run ZA, just like many have
                                            > issues with Norton/Symantec. It all depends on the system details as
                                            > well as what's installed on the system.
                                            >
                                            > Locking down outgoing ports through a firewall can help in the fact that
                                            > it might stop some type of infection from communicating with it's
                                            > "parent" outside.
                                            >
                                            > Mick
                                            >
                                            > loro wrote:
                                            >> Sheri wrote:
                                            >> > > BTW do know anything about this router firewall matter? I would
                                            >> > > like to run without a software firewall, but after this I don't
                                            >> > > know if I dare to.
                                            >> >
                                            >> >I believe a router firewall is only blocking uninvited inbound traffic.
                                            >>
                                            >> Yes, it's theats from the outside I'm asking about.
                                            >>
                                            >> > A software firewall probably doesn't see any unauthorized inbound
                                            >> > traffic if you have a router firewall in place.
                                            >>
                                            >> Mine did. Maybe that's a sign the router isn't configured properly, I
                                            >> don't know.
                                            >>
                                            >> Lotta
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ------------------------------------
                                            >
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • jeff
                                            Anyone else have trouble with the latest Firefox update? Mine is claiming a Javascript error and hangs permanently, requiring a RESET through files manager.
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Feb 20, 2010
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                                              Anyone else have trouble with the latest Firefox update?

                                              Mine is claiming a Javascript error and hangs permanently, requiring a
                                              RESET through files manager. (XP Pro)
                                            • Axel Berger
                                              ... Of course not. But if you want to do that you may need to connect an unprotected computer to the net. Viruses will find and infect you in minutes. ... Yes,
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Feb 21, 2010
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                                                Mick Housel wrote:
                                                > It's a well known fact that when you download various updates,
                                                > etc. for Windows OS' from Microsoft, they install known viruses?

                                                Of course not. But if you want to do that you may need to connect an
                                                unprotected computer to the net. Viruses will find and infect you in
                                                minutes.

                                                > There's a 16 year old kid in Alabama that kept pinging at and
                                                > trying to break through my firewall.

                                                Yes, when dealing with sentient beings actively targeting me then my
                                                old, less sophisticated and long known OS will be very easy to break.
                                                The thread so far was about automated and of necessity small malware
                                                programs. Here using minority software and setting up differently from
                                                the defaults will alone offer a lot of protection from anything coursing
                                                in the wild.

                                                And I still maintain that most of current malware, that does not require
                                                user interation, makes use of OS features that my old OS simply does not
                                                have. What's not there needs not be made secure. As an extreme example
                                                (extreme for you and me, standard for all companies that have something
                                                to protect): Keep any machine containing sensitive information out of
                                                all networks and run it standing alone.

                                                > Personally, I *know* that it's better to run one of the later
                                                > OS's and to have updated as much as possible.

                                                Some time ago one of the main advisors of our university computing
                                                centre confirmed, that Win98 does not have the capability of being
                                                attacked without user action. His tone was a little condescending, as if
                                                confirming that CP/M too was safe from current viuses, but still, so far
                                                Win98 does all I need. I'll need to move to Linux some day soon, I'm not
                                                prepared to phone Mr. Gates every time I change my hardware, but so far
                                                I keep putting it off.

                                                Axel
                                              • fw7oaks
                                                ... [snip] ... Those were the days, Axel, all the OS you needed from a 5¼ inch 360k floppy. fw
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Feb 21, 2010
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                                                  --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...> wrote:

                                                  [snip]

                                                  > His tone was a little condescending, as if confirming that CP/M too
                                                  > was safe from current viuses,

                                                  Those were the days, Axel, all the OS you needed from a 5¼ inch 360k floppy.

                                                  fw
                                                • Stephen Riddle
                                                  ... Uh, that s still true. All we really n e e d was around in 1990. It s the fun stuff that gets us down.
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Feb 21, 2010
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                                                    > > [snip]
                                                    > > His tone was a little condescending, as if confirming that CP/M too
                                                    > > was safe from current viuses,

                                                    > Those were the days, Axel, all the OS you needed from a 5¼ inch 360k floppy.
                                                    >
                                                    Uh, that's still true. All we really n e e d was around in 1990. It's the fun stuff that gets us down.
                                                  • Axel Berger
                                                    ... Although that goes against all my prejudices and instincts I disagree here. Of course in the strongest sense we don t need a computer at all. I still write
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Feb 21, 2010
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                                                      Stephen Riddle wrote:
                                                      > All we really n e e d was around in 1990. It's the fun
                                                      > stuff that gets us down.

                                                      Although that goes against all my prejudices and instincts I disagree
                                                      here. Of course in the strongest sense we don't need a computer at all.
                                                      I still write my letters using a simple text editor and the built-in
                                                      unproportional printer fonts. A several dozens of megabytes office suite
                                                      only adds bells and whistles and often makes the end product worse. But
                                                      my father recorded radio programs onto reel-to-reel tape and so did I
                                                      until about 1995. I then changed to DAT digital tape and was very
                                                      disappointed, the mechanics just did not last under heavy use. I now use
                                                      computers and good sound cards throughout. I began burning MP3-CDs but
                                                      now all data and backups are on several harddisks, that continue to
                                                      become bigger and cheaper.
                                                      In a way that is a need served. It used to be out of the reach of home
                                                      computing and now is well within. Something similar is watching films on
                                                      DVD, I have no other equipment to do that, no TV, and no VHS.

                                                      So yes, there are new capabilities and they do call for buying new and
                                                      higher powered equipment, but there are not too many of these. There
                                                      rarely is any improvement on what older machines did well already.

                                                      Axel
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