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  • phil
    I am stuck again. I have learned nothing. Some smart guy please go to www.comnett.net/~phil/gh11.html and look at this chapter of my E-book and see if I can
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 21, 2000
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      I am stuck again. I have learned nothing.

      Some smart guy please go to www.comnett.net/~phil/gh11.html

      and look at this chapter of my E-book and see if I can " Justify" the
      text below "GH-11" (a fourth of the way down on the left)---I want to
      "Justify" right and left, insteade of just left.

      Can I do that? How?

      Phil E
    • Jody
      Hi phil, ... This particular little bit is NOT part of this chapter in the book. It was added to explain what YOU are seeing....
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 21, 2000
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        Hi phil,

        >Some smart guy please go to www.comnett.net/~phil/gh11.html
        >
        >and look at this chapter of my E-book and see if I can " Justify" the
        >text below "GH-11" (a fourth of the way down on the left)

        <H4 ALIGN="justify">This particular little bit is NOT part of this chapter in the book. It was added to explain what YOU are seeing....</H4>

        <BR><BR>

        Add the ALIGN="justify" to every opening paragraph tag.

        find <P> and replace with <P ALIGN="justify">

        <H3>GH-11</H3>

        <P ALIGN="justify"><FONT face="Arial">
        I want to go back and talk about building again, for a little bit.....</P>

        nite...

        Happy HTML'n!
        Jody

        http://www.sureword.com/notetab

        The NoteTab and Html List...
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      • phil
        Thanks Jody - - That was just what I wanted- Looks great. Phil E ... From: Jody To: Sent: Monday, August 21,
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 21, 2000
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          Thanks Jody - - That was just what I wanted- Looks great.

          Phil E

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Jody" <KJB1611@...>
          To: <ntb-OffTopic@egroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 9:48 PM
          Subject: Re: [NTO] Blockquote


          > Hi phil,
          >
          > >Some smart guy please go to www.comnett.net/~phil/gh11.html
          > >
          > >and look at this chapter of my E-book and see if I can " Justify" the
          > >text below "GH-11" (a fourth of the way down on the left)
          >
          > <H4 ALIGN="justify">This particular little bit is NOT part of this chapter
          in the book. It was added to explain what YOU are seeing....</H4>
          >
          > <BR><BR>
          >
          > Add the ALIGN="justify" to every opening paragraph tag.
          >
          > find <P> and replace with <P ALIGN="justify">
          >
          > <H3>GH-11</H3>
          >
          > <P ALIGN="justify"><FONT face="Arial">
          > I want to go back and talk about building again, for a little bit.....</P>
          >
          > nite...
          >
          > Happy HTML'n!
          > Jody
          >
          > http://www.sureword.com/notetab
          >
          > The NoteTab and Html List...
          > mailto:Ntb-html-Subscribe@...
          > mailto:Ntb-html-UnSubscribe@...
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Red Leader
          ... Rather than replacing every tag, you can use: right after your GH-11 and then put the closing after the last
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 22, 2000
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            phil wrote:

            > I want to
            > "Justify" right and left, insteade of just left.
            >
            > Can I do that? How?

            Rather than replacing every <p> tag, you can use:
            <DIV align="justify">
            right after your <H3>GH-11</H3> and then put the closing </DIV> after
            the last paragraph. Everything between the <DIV> tags gets justified (or
            centered or whatever you want.)

            Emmett Hawkins
          • J. Michael Mollohan
            ... in the book. It was added to explain what YOU are seeing.... ... From what I understand, tage like and and the ALIGN parameter of the
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 22, 2000
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              Phil wrote:
              > >Some smart guy please go to www.comnett.net/~phil/gh11.html

              Jody responded:

              > >and look at this chapter of my E-book and see if I can " Justify" the
              > >text below "GH-11" (a fourth of the way down on the left)
              >
              > <H4 ALIGN="justify">This particular little bit is NOT part of this chapter
              in the book. It was added to explain what YOU are seeing....</H4>
              >
              > <BR><BR>
              >
              > Add the ALIGN="justify" to every opening paragraph tag.
              >
              > find <P> and replace with <P ALIGN="justify">
              >
              > <H3>GH-11</H3>
              >
              > <P ALIGN="justify"><FONT face="Arial">
              > I want to go back and talk about building again, for a little bit.....</P>

              From what I understand, tage like <CENTER> and <FONT> and the ALIGN
              parameter of the Header tags have been deprecated by the w3c and will
              eventually be dropped. A better, and easier method would be to use
              stylesheets or XML. A simple method, one that I use quite frequently is:

              <style type="text/css">

              <!--

              body { font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
              font-size: 9pt;
              color: #000044;
              margin-top: 20px;
              background-image: url(nb.jpg)}

              P { font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
              font-size: 9pt;
              color: #000044;
              text-align: justify;
              text-indent: 3em}

              H3 {font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
              color: red;
              text-decoration: bold;
              text-align: center;
              font-size: 12pt }

              H4 {font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
              color: brown;
              text-decoration: bold;
              font-size: 14pt }
              -->
              </style>

              Note in the P(aragraph) tag, the text-align parameter is set to "justify"
              which is what Phil was wanting to do. It also has a 3 em indent specified
              for every paragraph.

              The H3 tag specifies 12 point, bold red text, centered. This is a simple
              way to handle chapter and section headers and headlines, etc. Stylesheets
              rule!

              HTH

              Michael
            • Jody
              Hi Michael, ... While I agree that one day we may be forced to use style sheets for certain things, I find, for beginners, they extremely difficult to learn. I
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 22, 2000
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                Hi Michael,

                >From what I understand, tage like <CENTER> and <FONT> and the
                >ALIGN parameter of the Header tags have been deprecated by the
                >w3c and will eventually be dropped. A better, and easier method
                >would be to use stylesheets or XML. A simple method, one that I
                >use quite frequently is:
                >
                ><style type="text/css">

                While I agree that one day we may be forced to use style sheets
                for certain things, I find, for beginners, they extremely
                difficult to learn. I find them quite difficult myself still to
                understand and definitely a lot harder to use than <CENTER> and
                <FONT>. I am very sorry that some committee took it upon itself
                to try to get rid of them. I hope the main browsers override
                them and keep supporting it.

                cya,
                Jody

                Bradley's Bromide:

                If computers get too powerful, we can organize
                them into a committee -- that will do them in.
              • Red Leader
                ... I like style sheets, you can do so much more with them and make pages look so much nicer than using HTML hacks . Saying margin-left: 1in;
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 22, 2000
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                  Jody wrote:
                  > While I agree that one day we may be forced to use style sheets
                  > for certain things, I find, for beginners, they extremely
                  > difficult to learn. I find them quite difficult myself still to
                  > understand and definitely a lot harder to use than <CENTER> and
                  > <FONT>. I am very sorry that some committee took it upon itself
                  > to try to get rid of them. I hope the main browsers override
                  > them and keep supporting it.

                  I like style sheets, you can do so much more with them and make pages
                  look so much nicer than using HTML "hacks". Saying "margin-left: 1in;
                  margin-right:1in" is a lot easier than trying to write tables to get
                  margins on the page. The reason I don't use them more is because they're
                  not backwards compatible. Pages that look beautiful on the latest
                  versions of NS and IE look awful on a 3.0 browser. Maybe someday
                  everyone will have upgraded to a decent browser but for now we're stuck
                  using the HTML layout tags.

                  I wouldn't badmouth the W3C too much. While I agree that the major
                  browsers should continue to support HTML 4.0, I think that separating
                  the content from the layout is a good idea and eventually should make
                  things run much smoother. Also, the main browsers are really the ones
                  who decide how pages are written, the W3C just makes recommendations.
                  People write pages to be compatible with the majority of web users, not
                  based on W3C specs.

                  There's my $0.02, for what it's worth. :-)

                  Emmett Hawkins
                • Jody
                  Hi Emmett, ... I agree that some things are easier, especially for the web authors that do it on a daily basis, but for the beginners and those with no
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 22, 2000
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                    Hi Emmett,

                    >I like style sheets, you can do so much more with them and make
                    >pages look so much nicer than using HTML "hacks". Saying "margin-
                    >left: 1in; margin-right:1in" is a lot easier than trying to write
                    >tables to get margins on the page. The reason I don't use them
                    >more is because they're not backwards compatible. Pages that look
                    >beautiful on the latest versions of NS and IE look awful on a 3.0
                    >browser. Maybe someday everyone will have upgraded to a decent
                    >browser but for now we're stuck using the HTML layout tags.

                    I agree that some things are easier, especially for the web
                    authors that do it on a daily basis, but for the beginners and
                    those with no programming experience CSS can be extremely
                    confusing.

                    >I wouldn't badmouth the W3C too much.

                    I really try hard not too, believe it or not and do understand
                    they are trying to get some order to the whole mess. It seems to
                    me they make some things more difficult than it needs to be
                    though and they seem to have no regards for the beginner or
                    weekend hobbyist HTMLers. But as you implied - M$/IE are going
                    to do whatever pleases them and could care less about anybody else.

                    I appreciate your two cents. ;)

                    Happy HTML'n!
                    Jody

                    http://www.sureword.com/notetab

                    The NoteTab and Html List...
                    mailto:Ntb-html-Subscribe@...
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                  • Scott Fordin
                    ... As alluded above, the thing to remember about stylesheets is that you still need to make your base code look good in case the stylesheet is unavailable, or
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 22, 2000
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                      > I like style sheets, you can do so much more with them and make pages
                      > look so much nicer than using HTML "hacks". Saying "margin-left: 1in;
                      > margin-right:1in" is a lot easier than trying to write tables to get
                      > margins on the page. The reason I don't use them more is because they're
                      > not backwards compatible. Pages that look beautiful on the latest
                      > versions of NS and IE look awful on a 3.0 browser. Maybe someday
                      > everyone will have upgraded to a decent browser but for now we're stuck
                      > using the HTML layout tags.

                      As alluded above, the thing to remember about stylesheets is that you
                      still need to make your base code look good in case the stylesheet is
                      unavailable, or the reader's browser can't handle it, or if the reader has
                      disabled stylesheets in their browser. To say it another way, your code --
                      as with all program code -- should be able to fail gracefully.

                      > Also, the main browsers are really the ones
                      > who decide how pages are written, the W3C just makes recommendations.
                      > People write pages to be compatible with the majority of web users, not
                      > based on W3C specs.

                      Ah, there's rub: the "recommendations" promulgated by the W3C are intended
                      to inculcate cross-platform, cross-browser compatibility -- a.k.a. "open
                      standards." Proprietary extensions to HTML and XML are evil and should be
                      resisted at all costs! Microsoft is notorious about pushing proprietary
                      extensions (yes, Netscape has done it also, but not as much, especially
                      not lately), and then embedding those extensions in their authoring tools.
                      This is clearly an effort to usurp the HTML (and now XML) standards. If
                      you own HTML/XML, then you own ecommerce, data warehousing, distributed
                      applications, and suchlike. Can you say Microsoft.NET?

                      Scott
                    • Red Leader
                      ... Yes, this is what I try to do, use stylesheets as much as possible but make sure it still looks decent on an older browser. Unfortunately, this prevents
                      Message 10 of 17 , Aug 22, 2000
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                        Scott Fordin wrote:

                        > As alluded above, the thing to remember about stylesheets is that you
                        > still need to make your base code look good in case the stylesheet is
                        > unavailable, or the reader's browser can't handle it, or if the reader has
                        > disabled stylesheets in their browser. To say it another way, your code --
                        > as with all program code -- should be able to fail gracefully.

                        Yes, this is what I try to do, use stylesheets as much as possible but
                        make sure it still looks decent on an older browser. Unfortunately, this
                        prevents using stylesheets to their maximum potential. For example, you
                        can't define fonts using both HTML and stylesheets. Well, I guess you
                        can but the results probably won't be pretty.

                        > Ah, there's rub: the "recommendations" promulgated by the W3C are intended
                        > to inculcate cross-platform, cross-browser compatibility -- a.k.a. "open
                        > standards." Proprietary extensions to HTML and XML are evil and should be
                        > resisted at all costs! Microsoft is notorious about pushing proprietary
                        > extensions (yes, Netscape has done it also, but not as much, especially
                        > not lately), and then embedding those extensions in their authoring tools.
                        > This is clearly an effort to usurp the HTML (and now XML) standards.

                        I would agree to a point. I don't think one organization should have
                        absolute control over how software is written. Some of the extensions
                        Netscape added eventually became part of the standard, because they were
                        good ones. It would like to see all browsers be 100% compatible with the
                        standard. Then if they want to add extensions that's fine, as long as
                        people know they're the only ones that support them. Right now, most
                        browsers don't even fully support the standard, so cross-platform,
                        cross-browser compatibility is a joke.

                        And before we knock M$ too much (I've done my share!) I will say that
                        they're a lot better about supporting stylesheets than Netscape was/is.

                        Emmett
                      • Jody
                        Hi Emmett, ... Will that work in all cases? I have noticed when I try to do global tags like that they sometimes quit when I add certain code below it and
                        Message 11 of 17 , Aug 22, 2000
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                          Hi Emmett,

                          >Rather than replacing every <p> tag, you can use:
                          ><DIV align="justify">
                          >right after your <H3>GH-11</H3> and then put the closing </DIV> after
                          >the last paragraph. Everything between the <DIV> tags gets justified (or
                          >centered or whatever you want.)

                          Will that work in all cases? I have noticed when I try to do
                          "global" tags like that they sometimes quit when I add certain
                          code below it and do not go through the whole doc. I prefer
                          doing it that way myself with everything I can get away with
                          instead of doing it to all paragraphs like FONT, etc. It seems
                          so redundant to keep adding the same code over and over.


                          Thanks!
                          Jody

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                        • Red Leader
                          ... Thanks for bringing this up. To be honest, I don t know. I haven t had real great success using the tag in the past. I tried it on Phil s page before
                          Message 12 of 17 , Aug 22, 2000
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                            Jody wrote:

                            > Will that work in all cases? I have noticed when I try to do
                            > "global" tags like that they sometimes quit when I add certain
                            > code below it and do not go through the whole doc. I prefer
                            > doing it that way myself with everything I can get away with
                            > instead of doing it to all paragraphs like FONT, etc. It seems
                            > so redundant to keep adding the same code over and over.

                            Thanks for bringing this up. To be honest, I don't know. I haven't had
                            real great success using the <DIV> tag in the past. I tried it on Phil's
                            page before I sent that post to make sure it worked. As you say, it
                            would sure be nice if it worked, but I'm not sure that it always does.
                            Anyone else have any thoughts on why this is?

                            Emmett
                          • phil
                            Well, it sure works good on my book. Easy fast and great. Phil E. ... From: Red Leader To: Sent: Tuesday,
                            Message 13 of 17 , Aug 22, 2000
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                              Well, it sure works good on my book. Easy fast and great.

                              Phil E.

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Red Leader" <red-leader@...>
                              To: <ntb-OffTopic@egroups.com>
                              Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 12:49 PM
                              Subject: Re: [NTO] Blockquote


                              > Jody wrote:
                              >
                              > > Will that work in all cases? I have noticed when I try to do
                              > > "global" tags like that they sometimes quit when I add certain
                              > > code below it and do not go through the whole doc. I prefer
                              > > doing it that way myself with everything I can get away with
                              > > instead of doing it to all paragraphs like FONT, etc. It seems
                              > > so redundant to keep adding the same code over and over.
                              >
                              > Thanks for bringing this up. To be honest, I don't know. I haven't had
                              > real great success using the <DIV> tag in the past. I tried it on Phil's
                              > page before I sent that post to make sure it worked. As you say, it
                              > would sure be nice if it worked, but I'm not sure that it always does.
                              > Anyone else have any thoughts on why this is?
                              >
                              > Emmett
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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