Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [NTB] PDF files

Expand Messages
  • Pat Drummond
    ... days ... from ... several ... I agree. Creating PDFs for organizations or clubs should be banned! What software can pull text out of protected PDFs? I d
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 23, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Scism <jeff@...> wrote:
      > One of the "features" of the portable Document format in the early
      days
      > of the format was advertised as "copy protection" preventing people
      from
      > copying from your PDF documents. Since that time there have been
      several
      > PDF capable programs designed by others which enable access to the
      > contents of a PDF document.
      >
      > In an age where data must not only be communicated, but manipulated,
      > this design is a built in flaw. That is why people have tried to work
      > around it.
      >
      > In my view, PDFs are a hassle. if you have to exert yourself to be able
      > to extract from them, it is more like TV than computing.

      I agree. Creating PDFs for organizations or clubs should be banned!
      What software can pull text out of 'protected' PDFs? I'd love to be
      able to do that!
    • David Smart
      ... I m probably missing your point here, but ... PDFs are great for organisations with wide and varied membership - e.g. for clubs. It means that a formatted
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 23, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        > I agree. Creating PDFs for organizations or clubs should be banned!

        I'm probably missing your point here, but ...

        PDFs are great for organisations with wide and varied membership - e.g. for
        clubs. It means that a formatted document can be distributed with the
        knowledge that everyone can see it or print it without needing to have your
        particular brand or level of office software, or needing to buy some special
        display software. This benefit increases when the people producing separate
        documents for distribution are, themselves, possibly using different
        software.

        PDF should not be used for data storage (and I don't think it was ever
        intended by its designers that it should). If this is your complaint,
        then - yes I certainly agree. But not just for clubs, etc. It should never
        be used to hold data anywhere.

        Regards, Dave S

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Pat Drummond" <pat@...>
        To: <ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 6:49 AM
        Subject: [NTO] Re: [NTB] PDF files


        > --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Scism <jeff@...> wrote:
        >> One of the "features" of the portable Document format in the early
        > days
        >> of the format was advertised as "copy protection" preventing people
        > from
        >> copying from your PDF documents. Since that time there have been
        > several
        >> PDF capable programs designed by others which enable access to the
        >> contents of a PDF document.
        >>
        >> In an age where data must not only be communicated, but manipulated,
        >> this design is a built in flaw. That is why people have tried to work
        >> around it.
        >>
        >> In my view, PDFs are a hassle. if you have to exert yourself to be able
        >> to extract from them, it is more like TV than computing.
        >
        > I agree. Creating PDFs for organizations or clubs should be banned!
        > What software can pull text out of 'protected' PDFs? I'd love to be
        > able to do that!
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Jeff Scism
        Basically PDF are Read Only, and therefor Acrobat (or the Adobe Programs that create PDF Docs) should not be used as a Word Processor. Simply because the
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 23, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Basically PDF are Read Only, and therefor Acrobat (or the Adobe
          Programs that create PDF Docs) should not be used as a Word Processor.
          Simply because the ability to edit the documents is limited.

          This may be great for creating a printable format, or just doing
          announcements, newsletters, etc. but for people who need to work with
          the text, a word processing format is much better.

          I prefer NoteTab. It does most of what i want to do. If I have to, I use
          OpenOffice.



          David Smart wrote:
          >
          > > I agree. Creating PDFs for organizations or clubs should be banned!
          >
          > I'm probably missing your point here, but ...
          >
          > PDFs are great for organisations with wide and varied membership -
          > e.g. for
          > clubs. It means that a formatted document can be distributed with the
          > knowledge that everyone can see it or print it without needing to have
          > your
          > particular brand or level of office software, or needing to buy some
          > special
          > display software. This benefit increases when the people producing
          > separate
          > documents for distribution are, themselves, possibly using different
          > software.
          >
          > PDF should not be used for data storage (and I don't think it was ever
          > intended by its designers that it should). If this is your complaint,
          > then - yes I certainly agree. But not just for clubs, etc. It should
          > never
          > be used to hold data anywhere.
          >
          > Regards, Dave S
          >

          --


          Jeffery G. Scism, IBSSG
          ~~

          Blacksheep Ancestors in your Family?
          'Blacksheep Genealogy' is a registered California Sole Proprietorship.
          The International Black Sheep Society of Genealogists is a Social Organization Identified by its members using IBSSG after their signatures.

          Visit http://ibssg.org/

          For The Blacksheep website, Montgomery County, Putnam County, and Fountain County USGenWeb sites. MORE...
        • Axel Berger
          ... Exactly, and read-only is what the final distributed version of anything should be. If you don t set silly restrictions, that can be circumvented in any
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 23, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Jeff Scism wrote:
            > Basically PDF are Read Only, and therefor Acrobat (or the Adobe
            > Programs that create PDF Docs) should not be used as a Word Processor.

            Exactly, and read-only is what the final distributed version of anything
            should be. If you don't set silly restrictions, that can be circumvented
            in any case, limited extraction of content is possible as graphics or
            ASCII, but no real editing.

            It is totally the wrong format for work in progress. That said I have
            been asked to provide scans bound together as PDF rather than the raw
            images and having done it I find myself much preferring that for reading
            or scanning (or printing) pages of stuff, but I keep the raw images for
            everything else.

            Axel
          • David Smart
            Yes, I think you re saying what I m saying. It s funny, I really like NoteTab, but I don t seem to use it a fraction of what others do. The only time I ever
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 23, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Yes, I think you're saying what I'm saying.

              It's funny, I really like NoteTab, but I don't seem to use it a fraction of
              what others do. The only time I ever seem to have text files is when a
              program requires them (e.g. batch file, configuration files). For almost
              everything else I do, I seem to need formatting (e.g. Word) or data
              manipulation (e.g. Access or Excel). Very rarely simple text files.
              (Actually, I would use Excel at least 5:1 over Word or Access or NoteTab or
              anything else.)

              Regards, Dave S

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Jeff Scism" <jeff@...>
              To: <ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 9:10 AM
              Subject: Re: [NTO] Re: [NTB] PDF files


              > Basically PDF are Read Only, and therefor Acrobat (or the Adobe
              > Programs that create PDF Docs) should not be used as a Word Processor.
              > Simply because the ability to edit the documents is limited.
              >
              > This may be great for creating a printable format, or just doing
              > announcements, newsletters, etc. but for people who need to work with
              > the text, a word processing format is much better.
              >
              > I prefer NoteTab. It does most of what i want to do. If I have to, I use
              > OpenOffice.
              >
              >
              >
              > David Smart wrote:
              >>
              >> > I agree. Creating PDFs for organizations or clubs should be banned!
              >>
              >> I'm probably missing your point here, but ...
              >>
              >> PDFs are great for organisations with wide and varied membership -
              >> e.g. for
              >> clubs. It means that a formatted document can be distributed with the
              >> knowledge that everyone can see it or print it without needing to have
              >> your
              >> particular brand or level of office software, or needing to buy some
              >> special
              >> display software. This benefit increases when the people producing
              >> separate
              >> documents for distribution are, themselves, possibly using different
              >> software.
              >>
              >> PDF should not be used for data storage (and I don't think it was ever
              >> intended by its designers that it should). If this is your complaint,
              >> then - yes I certainly agree. But not just for clubs, etc. It should
              >> never
              >> be used to hold data anywhere.
              >>
              >> Regards, Dave S
              >>
              >
              > --
              >
              >
              > Jeffery G. Scism, IBSSG
              > ~~
              >
              > Blacksheep Ancestors in your Family?
              > 'Blacksheep Genealogy' is a registered California Sole Proprietorship.
              > The International Black Sheep Society of Genealogists is a Social
              > Organization Identified by its members using IBSSG after their
              > signatures.
              >
              > Visit http://ibssg.org/
              >
              > For The Blacksheep website, Montgomery County, Putnam County, and Fountain
              > County USGenWeb sites. MORE...
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • Don - HtmlFixIt.com
              ... I use notetab over excel all day, every day, for data manipulation. It sorts, combines, strips, etc. etc.
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 23, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                David Smart wrote:
                > Yes, I think you're saying what I'm saying.
                >
                > It's funny, I really like NoteTab, but I don't seem to use it a fraction of
                > what others do. The only time I ever seem to have text files is when a
                > program requires them (e.g. batch file, configuration files). For almost
                > everything else I do, I seem to need formatting (e.g. Word) or data
                > manipulation (e.g. Access or Excel). Very rarely simple text files.
                > (Actually, I would use Excel at least 5:1 over Word or Access or NoteTab or
                > anything else.)
                >
                > Regards, Dave S
                I use notetab over excel all day, every day, for data manipulation. It
                sorts, combines, strips, etc. etc.
              • buralex@gmail.com
                Don - HtmlFixIt.com said on Dec 23, 2007 22:07 ... Dave, Don (just got back from visiting relatives over Christmas so I m a couple of
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 27, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  "Don - HtmlFixIt.com" <don@...> said on Dec 23, 2007 22:07
                  -0500 (in part):
                  > > (Actually, I would use Excel at least 5:1 over Word or Access or
                  > NoteTab or
                  > > anything else.)
                  > >
                  > > Regards, Dave S
                  > I use notetab over excel all day, every day, for data manipulation. It
                  > sorts, combines, strips, etc. etc.
                  Dave, Don (just got back from visiting relatives over Christmas so I'm a
                  couple of days behind)

                  Notetab vs. Excel vs. Notetab - my frequent usage patterns is actually
                  back-and-forth from Excel to Notetab.
                  Copy a selection grid from Excel, paste into Notetab, manipulate with
                  Regexp and/or clips, copy-ALL and paste back to Excel (sometimes several
                  round trips to accomplish various sub-tasks)

                  Very infrequently I dip into a little Basic from within Excel

                  The two programs are (IMO) a perfect match!

                  Regards ... Alec -- buralex-gmail
                  --



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.