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DOS Programs on LCDs XP and Vista

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  • lm_hamilton
    I think this is an issue related to LCD monitors and independent of the OS. I have tried Googling, but can t seem to get the right combination of queries to
    Message 1 of 11 , May 28 8:19 AM
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      I think this is an issue related to LCD monitors and independent of
      the OS. I have tried Googling, but can't seem to get the right
      combination of queries to get the right answers. I have also tried on
      the MS Knowledgebase.

      My dad has a new PC with MS Vista. He has an old DOS database program
      PC-FILE that he keeps all of his addresses. He says it will not run
      full screen.

      At work, I support some old DOS programs. One client got new PCs with
      Win XP Pro and LCD monitors. They also cannot get the DOS programs to
      run full screen. The closest they could come was changing the screen
      resolution to 800x600, but it is still in a DOS window. This is not a
      good solution, as it limits what they can do in Windows programs.

      I do not have XP or an LCD monitor to fiddle with at work. I know
      there has to be a simple answer for the driver or a monitor setting.

      I am sure this issue will keep coming up, as we have about 150 clients
      on the collection of DOS software I support. It will be years before
      we get them moved to Windows software.

      Thanks!

      Larry Hamilton
    • alice ttlg
      ... I know that in XP, typing cmd in Start Run, gets you full screen DOS while command gets you a DOS window. How is he running these programs? Thru a
      Message 2 of 11 , May 28 11:40 AM
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        On 5/28/07, lm_hamilton <lmh@...> wrote:
        >
        > My dad has a new PC with MS Vista. He has an old DOS database program
        > PC-FILE that he keeps all of his addresses. He says it will not run
        > full screen.

        I know that in XP, typing "cmd" in Start > Run, gets you full screen
        DOS while "command" gets you a DOS window.

        How is he running these programs? Thru a batch file? Perhaps somehow
        using command rather than cmd? (It's been way too long since I messed
        with DOS programs and batch files...)

        And check the shortcut he's using, with shortcuts to DOS programs in
        XP, you can right click, select Properties and then there's various
        extra tabs relating to the DOS program environment, including "Screen"
        where you can select Full-screen or Window.

        I don't have Vista (switched to a Macbook instead) but there may be
        options there similar to XP.

        --
        alice ttlg

        LJ: http://alicettlg.livejournal.com/
        Vox Populli: http://www.populli.org/
      • Jason W.
        ... Is it possible his DOS window just isn t in full-screen mode? Have him hit Alt-Enter to try to switch to full screen. Full-screen DOS is the same video
        Message 3 of 11 , May 28 12:06 PM
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          On 5/28/07, lm_hamilton <lmh@...> wrote:

          > My dad has a new PC with MS Vista. He has an old DOS database program
          > PC-FILE that he keeps all of his addresses. He says it will not run
          > full screen.

          Is it possible his DOS window just isn't in full-screen mode? Have him
          hit Alt-Enter to try to switch to full screen. Full-screen DOS is the
          same video mode as when most computers boot up and you see nothing but
          text right before you see the Windows loading screen.

          I've LCD's at work and I occasionally have to work in non-GUI mode.
          I've not seen an LCD refuse to do so, and if this is the case with
          your dad, it's a very odd LCD indeed :)

          --
          HTH, YMMV, HANW :)

          Jason

          My operat~1 system unders~1 long filena~1, does yours?
        • prog@lomascentral.com
          Not true, this is simply the way your system is set up to run these two programmes. The effective difference between CMD.EXE and COMMAND.COM is that the first
          Message 4 of 11 , May 28 12:12 PM
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            Not true, this is simply the way your system is set up to run these two
            programmes.

            The effective difference between CMD.EXE and COMMAND.COM is that the
            first is a new 32 bit version and the latter is the old legacy 16 bit
            versions.

            As memory serves command.com runs autoexec.bat and config.sys (located
            in the windows\system32 directory) while cmd.exe doesn't and is only
            useful for backward compatibility if your programme won't work with
            cmd.exe. It also doesn't work with long file names, try typing cd
            "\program files" in command and you'll find it fails.

            Unless you have an old programme there's no good reason to use
            command.com (and quite a lot of reasons not to). cmd.exe while looking a
            lot like it's elder relative was rewritten from scratch to get away from
            the old 16 bit limitations.

            Tim

            alice ttlg wrote:
            >

            > I know that in XP, typing "cmd" in Start > Run, gets you full screen
            > DOS while "command" gets you a DOS window.
            >
          • acummingsus
            Sent over 5 hours ago. And since that one hasn t shown up yet, here s #2, which is a repeat of the first. ... I would hazard a guess here that it *may* have
            Message 5 of 11 , May 28 9:25 PM
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              Sent over 5 hours ago. And since that one hasn't shown up yet, here's
              #2, which is a repeat of the first.

              On Monday 28 May 2007 08:19, lm_hamilton wrote:
              > I think this is an issue related to LCD monitors and independent of
              > the OS.

              I would hazard a guess here that it *may* have to do with that LCD
              uses very
              significantly slower vertical and horizontal refresh rates than CRT does.

              (such refresh rates are controlled by the O.S. and the driver(s) )

              ??? I could be way off there on that guess. But it is true, the
              difference in
              refresh rates used. I would think that, given if the O.S. properly
              controls
              everything through proper drivers and etc. that (so called) "legacy" apps
              could then run in the desired way.

              > I have tried Googling, but can't seem to get the right

              I turned up a little bit (controversy over whether or not the virtual
              machine
              for download from MS is needed so as to get compatability with legacy
              apps) -- then, time ran out on me. If you end up wading through some
              of this
              and arrive at something conclusive, I'd love to hear back about the
              results
              here.

              Near half way down the page
              http://search.techrepublic.com.com/search/Microsoft+Windows+Vista+and+george+ou.html

              http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=202517&start=0

              http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/Ou/?p=344

              http://techrepublic.com.com//5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=202517&messageID=2109877

              http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=dos+app+vista+lcd&btnG=Search

              http://www.google.com/search?q=legacy+apps+win+xp+vista+lcd&btnG=Search&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial

              (for laughs. Or, maybe not?)
              http://chris.pirillo.com/2007/03/09/windows-vista-help/

              (I guess is info for legacy app that does run)
              http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2124519,00.asp

              (oop, even more is needed if the legacy app just won't run)
              http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1202598,00.asp

              Alan.

              > My dad has a new PC with MS Vista. He has an old DOS database program
              > PC-FILE that he keeps all of his addresses. He says it will not run
              > full screen.
              >
              > At work, I support some old DOS programs. One client got new PCs with
              > Win XP Pro and LCD monitors. They also cannot get the DOS programs to
              > run full screen. The closest they could come was changing the screen
              > resolution to 800x600, but it is still in a DOS window. This is not a
              > good solution, as it limits what they can do in Windows programs.
              >
              > I do not have XP or an LCD monitor to fiddle with at work. I know
              > there has to be a simple answer for the driver or a monitor setting.
              >
              > I am sure this issue will keep coming up, as we have about 150 clients
              > on the collection of DOS software I support. It will be years before
              > we get them moved to Windows software.
            • Larry Hamilton
              Alex, All, Yes, I know about the ALT+ENTER and the full screen properties on the shortcut. By not run I should have translated. ;-) The program runs, but you
              Message 6 of 11 , May 29 6:11 PM
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                Alex, All,

                Yes, I know about the ALT+ENTER and the full screen properties on the
                shortcut.

                By "not run" I should have translated. ;-) The program runs, but you
                cannot read it.

                This must be something with the driver. I have tried Googling the
                monitor, graphics card, and driver, but do not get helpful results.

                A co-worker who has XP and an LCD and was on vacation last week, tried
                the apps on his system and it worked.

                We do not support client's hardware, but this client does not have their
                own IT department, so I was trying to figure it out as a courtesy. I was
                also hoping the answer would help my father's issue.

                I do not trust having my Dad change drivers or other settings. He "had"
                to get a new computer because the old one was "broken". He gave it to
                me. I took out the new RAM chip he got, and it started right up (It was
                the wrong kind of RAM.). He did not take my advice on optimizing his old
                PC (Spybot S&D, dumping all the expensive utilities & bloatware, etc.).
                I did what I told him to do and it runs great. I think he just wanted an
                excuse to get a new computer. I'll just have to fiddle with it next time
                we make it back for a visit. ;-)

                My Dad & sister could not figure out the LCD monitor. One of my
                brother's went by and hit the power button, and it started working. Of
                course, they tried that already. ;-)

                It would be a lot easier if I did not live almost 600 miles away. I
                tried getting a remote software setup, but that's another story. Ah, the
                joys of trying to be a good son. ;-)

                Larry Hamilton
                Kairos Computer Solutions
                http://www.kairoscomputers.com/
                Sales Affiliate for Grisoft Anti-Virus
              • Don - HtmlFixIt.com
                ... There is a way to ask vista to run a program under xp as I recall. Have you tried that?
                Message 7 of 11 , May 29 6:20 PM
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                  Larry Hamilton wrote:
                  > Alex, All,
                  >
                  > Yes, I know about the ALT+ENTER and the full screen properties on the
                  > shortcut.
                  >
                  > By "not run" I should have translated. ;-) The program runs, but you
                  > cannot read it.
                  >
                  > This must be something with the driver. I have tried Googling the
                  > monitor, graphics card, and driver, but do not get helpful results.
                  >
                  > A co-worker who has XP and an LCD and was on vacation last week, tried
                  > the apps on his system and it worked.

                  There is a way to ask vista to run a program "under" xp as I recall.
                  Have you tried that?
                • Larry Hamilton
                  Don, All, I tried something else and Googled for VGA.sys DOS Vista full screen I think one of the links Alan shared mentioned VGA. A lot of old DOS games
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 29 6:43 PM
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                    Don, All,

                    I tried something else and Googled for

                    VGA.sys DOS Vista full screen

                    I think one of the links Alan shared mentioned VGA. A lot of old DOS
                    games evidently have an issue with VGA and VESA and full screen. There
                    is a third party fix to VGA.sys here:
                    http://www.nomissoft.com/cgi-bin/ax.cgi?http://www.nomissoft.com/files/winxpfix.zip

                    I am leery to try it.

                    I'll check the MSKB and see what turns up.

                    Larry Hamilton
                    Kairos Computer Solutions
                    http://www.kairoscomputers.com/
                    Sales Affiliate for Grisoft Anti-Virus



                    Don - HtmlFixIt.com wrote:
                    > Larry Hamilton wrote:
                    >
                    >> Alex, All,
                    >>
                    >> Yes, I know about the ALT+ENTER and the full screen properties on the
                    >> shortcut.
                    >>
                    >> By "not run" I should have translated. ;-) The program runs, but you
                    >> cannot read it.
                    >>
                    >> This must be something with the driver. I have tried Googling the
                    >> monitor, graphics card, and driver, but do not get helpful results.
                    >>
                    >> A co-worker who has XP and an LCD and was on vacation last week, tried
                    >> the apps on his system and it worked.
                    >>
                    >
                    > There is a way to ask vista to run a program "under" xp as I recall.
                    > Have you tried that?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Larry Hamilton
                    BINGO! http://support.microsoft.com/kb/197538 Well, almost. This is for NT and directs to the NT service pack. This must be what the VGA.sys third party fix is
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 29 6:48 PM
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                      BINGO!

                      http://support.microsoft.com/kb/197538

                      Well, almost. This is for NT and directs to the NT service pack. This
                      must be what the VGA.sys third party fix is for.

                      This is similar to what clients are experiencing on XP Pro. I believe
                      this is also what my Dad has on Vista Home.

                      I'll keep at it and if there is another solution besides this third
                      party fix, I'll let you know.

                      Larry Hamilton
                      Kairos Computer Solutions
                      http://www.kairoscomputers.com/
                      Sales Affiliate for Grisoft Anti-Virus
                    • Larry Hamilton
                      Here is the MSKB on Vista. This answers my Dad s issue. 16-bit DOS apps on Vista are NOT supported in full screen mode. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926657
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 29 6:54 PM
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                        Here is the MSKB on Vista. This answers my Dad's issue.

                        16-bit DOS apps on Vista are NOT supported in full screen mode.

                        http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926657

                        It suggests loading the XP video drivers. I'll just tell my Dad he has
                        to live with it. Maybe I can get him to go to a new program for his
                        addresses. He can dump them to a CSV file, and import to anything, so I
                        think that issue is solved.

                        Now on to the XP issue.

                        The search term I used this time is

                        full-screen command prompt

                        Larry Hamilton
                        Kairos Computer Solutions
                        http://www.kairoscomputers.com/
                        Sales Affiliate for Grisoft Anti-Virus
                      • Don - HtmlFixIt.com
                        ... CSVed is pretty darn nice for such things!
                        Message 11 of 11 , May 29 7:16 PM
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                          Larry Hamilton wrote:
                          > Here is the MSKB on Vista. This answers my Dad's issue.
                          >
                          > 16-bit DOS apps on Vista are NOT supported in full screen mode.
                          >
                          > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926657
                          >
                          > It suggests loading the XP video drivers. I'll just tell my Dad he has
                          > to live with it. Maybe I can get him to go to a new program for his
                          > addresses. He can dump them to a CSV file, and import to anything, so I
                          > think that issue is solved.
                          >
                          CSVed is pretty darn nice for such things!
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