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Re: [NTO] The not genuine message

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  • Barry
    Good for you mister and I wholeheartedly agree with your decision. Too often the little man gets kicked in the crutch and no one gives a damn but you stick
    Message 1 of 30 , May 26, 2006
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      Good for you mister and I wholeheartedly agree with your decision. Too
      often the 'little man' gets kicked in the crutch and no one gives a damn but
      you stick with it. If you bite hard enough sooner or later you'll draw
      blood even though it may not happen in my lifetime <<LoL>>

      Take care. Barry UK

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Adrian/ Rosemary Worsfold" <change@...>
      To: <ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 2:49 AM
      Subject: Re: [NTO] The not genuine message


      I'd just like to say that having given this a lot of thought I have decided
      to report this trader to
      Microsoft and include an image of the invoice.
    • Mobile Estimator2
      What ever happened to the customer is always right .... When MicroSoft came out they gave allot of software away and got my vote looks like the tables have
      Message 2 of 30 , May 26, 2006
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        What ever happened to the customer is always right .... When MicroSoft came
        out they gave allot of software away and got my vote looks like the tables
        have changed ... buying a Computer online is getting harder to do also ... I
        bought a Z83V online 2 months ago and I am still trying to get everything I
        ordered. Oh Well ... it's a brave new world ... Teach them they are animals
        and then wonder why they act like ... Monkey's

        Bill
      • Mobile Estimator2
        Good For You Jody .... Children need their faithers ...Bill
        Message 3 of 30 , May 26, 2006
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          Good For You Jody .... Children need their faithers ...Bill
        • Alan_C
          ... Side note: If on a major name brand PC (Pack Bell, HP, Dell, etc.) any the hardware failed too soon it most likely be the dealer s warranty issue anyways
          Message 4 of 30 , May 26, 2006
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            On Friday 26 May 2006 01:49, Mark Partous wrote:
            > Hello Alan,
            >
            > Thursday, May 25, 2006, 11:15:56 PM, you wrote:
            >
            > A> I'm with Win 2K. I decided not to and will not buy XP because I didn't
            > want A> to risk my time having to phone Microsoft just so as to prove to
            > them that I A> own something that I have already paid for and have a retail
            > receipt for just A> because my motherboard or sufficient other hardware
            > failed on me too early A> (prior to the 3 or so months before the slate
            > gets wiped clean by Microsoft's A> database).
            >
            > Thanks for your answer. It wasn't me that decided that XP was on two of the
            > machines (the P-B laptop and one desktop). For business I still use Win 2K.
            > All computers (that are compatible) have a Xandros partition too.

            Side note: If on a major name brand PC (Pack Bell, HP, Dell, etc.) any the
            hardware failed too soon it most likely be the dealer's warranty issue
            anyways therefore the end user would not experience time spent becoming
            involved with Microsoft.

            But I always build my own PC. (that's 1 reason why the Linux) (I've Win 2K on
            only 1 PC).

            Normally it (xp activate) *probably* would not be anything big enough to
            bother/concern over. But it's the principle of the possibility of my time
            becoming involved. And, just for me to *attempt* to prove to MS over the
            telephone that I own it and have the legal right to use it on thus_and_such
            hardware.

            MS has no way over the phone to discern whether someone being truthful or not
            about *significant and premature/early hardware failure*.
          • Alan_C
            MS has no way over the phone to discern whether someone being truthful or not about *significant and premature/early hardware failure* Oop, I ment to cut that.
            Message 5 of 30 , May 26, 2006
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              MS has no way over the phone to discern whether someone being truthful or not
              about *significant and premature/early hardware failure*

              Oop, I ment to cut that. Sorry.

              But if someone untruthful then the ms INTERNET database will snuff em due to
              two different hardware profiles on the one Xp.
            • Chris Dart
              We all like something for free if we can get it, but Jason and his colleagues put their time and effort into making the software and are entitled to be paid
              Message 6 of 30 , May 29, 2006
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                We all like something for free if we can get it, but Jason and his colleagues put their time and effort into making the software and are entitled to be paid for it. The ones to swear at, it would seem, are the staff in the place where you bought it.

                If I found someone stealing my property they would find I can be very ‘nasty’. In a manner of speaking, it would seem you have been stolen from, but you are cursing the wrong people!



                Chris



                ________________________________

                From: ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Rush
                Sent: 24 May 2006 21:16
                To: ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [NTO] The not genuine message





                Adrian, I work for Microsoft, and you are using my intellectual property
                without having paid my company and me for our labor in creating it. It's
                unfortunate if you paid money to a pirate for stolen property, but it's not
                Microsoft's fault, it's yours.

                Jason


                -----Original Message-----
                From: ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Adrian/ Rosemary Worsfold
                Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 8:32 AM
                To: ntb-offtopic@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [NTO] The not genuine message

                Thanks for the information. The effect on the screen is nasty, plus they
                cause a slow countdown to continue use.

                The immediate solution (should it happen to anyone else) is to go to System
                Update and go back before the invasion, then block automatic updates.

                Microsoft has lost any goodwill I had towards it.

                Adrian Worsfold

                http://www.pluralist.co.uk



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              • Chris Dart
                If you buy a stolen car – not knowing it to be stolen – but later the police or whoever catch up with it, you will find you have lost the car and your
                Message 7 of 30 , May 29, 2006
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                  If you buy a stolen car – not knowing it to be stolen – but later the police or whoever catch up with it, you will find you have lost the car and your money and the only recourse is with the person who sold it to you. He will probably be in jail and you can whistle for your money. You have got a better deal from Microsoft, at least you get to keep what you bought, you just cannot update it.



                  Chris



                  ________________________________

                  From: ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adrian/ Rosemary Worsfold
                  Sent: 25 May 2006 15:06
                  To: ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [NTO] The not genuine message



                  Thanks for the replies.

                  The situation is that I bought the computer with the now clearly illegally installed operating
                  system from RM Computers at 5 Market Place in Barton-on-Humber on 30th March 2005 and
                  as far as I was concerned I had no reason to think otherwise that the Windows XP Pro was
                  legal. I have found the receipt, and it is interesting because it does not mention the operating
                  system, nor does it mention the Microsoft Office that was installed too. So I might now
                  assume that that was illegal too.

                  Yesterday (Thursday) I went to the shop where he used to trade (closed and sold to a small
                  fabric retailer) and was told he works from Newtons Printers nearby. They said they bought
                  his stock from him and now give out his mobile number. I took this and after a voicemail
                  deposit I later rang again and spoke to him. He told me to do how to remove the offending
                  "May be a victim of Counterfeit" notices and slow speed of switching on - the countdown to
                  ungreying the "Resolve later" button - installed by the Microsoft update. He said the longer
                  term solution was that files can be backed up and he would put on Windows XP Home and
                  would cost me £70, costs him £65. He would not charge for his time. He now just deals with
                  existing customers and warranties. He said he did this with the operating system to keep
                  down the price. (Well we can all keep down the price by not paying for something!)

                  Now having given this some thought, this is not the solution is it, because he has installed
                  operating system software I thought was legal and is not, and therefore this surely needs
                  pursuing in a different way. It is a huge inconvenience to me to have to back up files and
                  data, not only this but I restructure the Start button shortcuts too. Presumably the Windows XP
                  Home would be legal, but this computer has been running Windows XP Pro.

                  So there are two issues here. One is the way I have been hoodwinked. The evidence is that I
                  was supplied with an operating system, and secondly his advertising. Unfortunately I did not
                  keep his advertising that described new and reconditioned computers with Windows XP
                  supplied. Mine was not new.

                  The second issue is that Microsoft have messed up my system on pain of reporting this
                  trader to them. Only if I pay Microsoft money or report this person can I have my computer
                  restored. Now it is not up to me to report him to Microsoft, nor is it right for my computer to be
                  messed up. It is up to Microsoft to deal with the rogue traders themselves. My contract is with
                  this trader, and I am going to go today to the local authority to pursue this further. Microsoft
                  have, or should have, a contract with him.

                  I have no difficulty with publishing (as indeed I am doing here) the details of this trader and
                  his business (that has ceased trading - and I only know his first name, Roger). What is wrong
                  is that Microsoft is using their dispute with such traders to affect retail customers' computers,
                  and it is an abuse of their privilege in sending automatic updates. This is a matter which I
                  have sent to my Member of Parliament and especially one of my Members of the European
                  Parliament to pass this behaviour on to the European Commission. I have received replies
                  from both. The European Commission deals with Microsoft issues because of the EU role
                  and the size and power of Microsoft, as demonstrated in this case.

                  Adrian Worsfold

                  http://www.pluralist.co.uk





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                • Mark Partous
                  Hello Chris, Monday, May 29, 2006, 9:23:03 AM, you wrote: CD If you buy a stolen car – not knowing it to be stolen – but later the CD police or whoever
                  Message 8 of 30 , May 29, 2006
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                    Hello Chris,

                    Monday, May 29, 2006, 9:23:03 AM, you wrote:

                    CD> If you buy a stolen car – not knowing it to be stolen – but later the
                    CD> police or whoever catch up with it, you will find you have lost the car
                    CD> and your money and the only recourse is with the person who sold it to you.

                    I don't know where you are from, but in most "working" legal systems, this is
                    simply NOT true. If the stolen car was sold to someone who, in good faith,
                    bought it, he has become the legitimate owner. It is the original owner who
                    has to try to recuperate from the thief and/or the fence.

                    Without such a construction it would become very hazardous to buy anything at
                    all. That (even though in this case it protects the seller)also was the idea
                    behind the (no longer existing) system of Eurocheque; cheques accompanied by
                    the EC-card were guaranteed to be paid by the bank (max. ± 175 €), even if
                    they turned out to be stolen. If this would not have been the case, no merchant,
                    right in his mind, would have accepted such a cheque as payment.

                    Your comparison is not accurate, since, in this case, it was not the computer
                    that was stolen, but the operating system obviously wasn't paid for. Now,
                    I wouldn't know where to find the "operating system" of a car? :-)

                    Which does not mean I do not understand your point of view. Actually in this
                    case, the buyer should have asked for a proof of the legitimacy of the
                    software...

                    --
                    Best Wishes,
                    Mark
                    using The Bat! 3.80.06
                  • Jeff Scism
                    If the stolen car was sold to someone who, in good faith, bought it, he has become the legitimate owner. Here the person in possession would be arrested,
                    Message 9 of 30 , May 29, 2006
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                      "

                      If the stolen car was sold to someone who, in good faith,
                      bought it, he has become the legitimate owner.

                      "

                      Here the person in possession would be arrested, and the car would be
                      returned to the original owner from whom it was stolen. "possession of
                      stolen property" is a crime.

                      There have been cases where stolen items have been returned decades later.

                      With Software you are dealing with Intellectual property, and like a
                      copyright, it isn't a physical property, but a property of creativity.

                      The value determination is based on the USE of the property, and that is
                      why you license the software, rather than sell it as a outright sale.

                      Buying a book doesn't make it's contents yours, even though you own the
                      medium it is presented in, the "book". You do not have the right to copy
                      and resell the copies, but you can sell the ONE copy you bought.

                      Highjacking software takes the commercial value away from the creator
                      and puts it in the hands of the pirate.

                      You can't expect the creator to "service" the pirated copies, and you
                      can expect them to tell you that you have no license to use them, no
                      matter that you may think they were genuine when you bought them.

                      Caveat Emptor. It is the buyer's responsibility to assure he/she is
                      buying the genuine article, it is after all their money and their
                      decision to purchase. When you buy a pig in a poke, you end up with the
                      poke.


                      ~~

                      Jeffery Scism,
                      USGenWeb Project Local Coordinator Rep
                      NC/NE region




                      Mark Partous wrote:

                      >Hello Chris,
                      >
                      >Monday, May 29, 2006, 9:23:03 AM, you wrote:
                      >
                      >CD> If you buy a stolen car – not knowing it to be stolen – but later the
                      >CD> police or whoever catch up with it, you will find you have lost the car
                      >CD> and your money and the only recourse is with the person who sold it to you.
                      >
                      >I don't know where you are from, but in most "working" legal systems, this is
                      >simply NOT true. If the stolen car was sold to someone who, in good faith,
                      >bought it, he has become the legitimate owner. It is the original owner who
                      >has to try to recuperate from the thief and/or the fence.
                      >
                      >Without such a construction it would become very hazardous to buy anything at
                      >all. That (even though in this case it protects the seller)also was the idea
                      >behind the (no longer existing) system of Eurocheque; cheques accompanied by
                      >the EC-card were guaranteed to be paid by the bank (max. ± 175 €), even if
                      >they turned out to be stolen. If this would not have been the case, no merchant,
                      >right in his mind, would have accepted such a cheque as payment.
                      >
                      >Your comparison is not accurate, since, in this case, it was not the computer
                      >that was stolen, but the operating system obviously wasn't paid for. Now,
                      >I wouldn't know where to find the "operating system" of a car? :-)
                      >
                      >Which does not mean I do not understand your point of view. Actually in this
                      >case, the buyer should have asked for a proof of the legitimacy of the
                      >software...
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • prog@lomascentral.com
                      I d regard the UK as a working legal system and it s true here. It s most often relevant in the case of stolen cars (simply because they re most commonly
                      Message 10 of 30 , May 29, 2006
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                        I'd regard the UK as a 'working' legal system and it's true here.

                        It's most often relevant in the case of stolen cars (simply because
                        they're most commonly stolen, sold on and found to be stolen) but it's
                        true for everything material.

                        You cannot be deprived of your ownership by theft.

                        Of course the discussion is about intellectual property rather than
                        material property.

                        Tim

                        Mark Partous wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello Chris,
                        >
                        > Monday, May 29, 2006, 9:23:03 AM, you wrote:
                        >
                        > CD> If you buy a stolen car – not knowing it to be stolen – but later the
                        > CD> police or whoever catch up with it, you will find you have lost the car
                        > CD> and your money and the only recourse is with the person who sold it to you.
                        >
                        > I don't know where you are from, but in most "working" legal systems, this is
                        > simply NOT true. If the stolen car was sold to someone who, in good faith,
                        > bought it, he has become the legitimate owner. It is the original owner who
                        > has to try to recuperate from the thief and/or the fence.
                        >
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