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Re: [NTO] Gmane - Mail Lists to News Gateway

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  • Jody
    Hi Greg, I m super busy as you can guess. Is the short of this that you can go to the link and somehow use it for Fookes Software/yahoogroups lists? (I would
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 13, 2006
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      Hi Greg,

      I'm super busy as you can guess. Is the short of this that you
      can go to the link and somehow use it for Fookes
      Software/yahoogroups lists? (I would imagine other types of
      groups/list/forum/email delivery, etc.) It will be months
      probably till I can look at this. Lots of testing software at
      hand and to continue for awhile.

      >Hi Jody (and everyone else),
      >
      >I have just discovered http://www.gmane.org/
      >
      >Were you aware that it is possible to gateway between news and
      >mail lists?
      >
      >As most people subscribed to the NoteTab family of lists are
      >likely to very "text-based" in their computing, and you switch
      >all the lists to ban attachments to encourage this, news would be
      >the ideal transport medium for most if not all the NoteTab lists.
      >
      >Does anyone here have experience of mail lists using the Gmane to
      >gateway to news?
      >
      >I am thinking of using the service for a couple of my lists.
      >
      >Greg



      Happy Topics,
      Jody

      The NoteTab Off-Topic List
      mailto:ntb-OffTopic-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
      mailto:ntb-OffTopic-UnSubscribe@yahoogroups.com

      All Fookes Software mailing lists and more...
      http://www.fookes.us/maillist.htm
      http://www.fookes.us/redir http://www.clean-funnies.com/
      http://www.notetab.net/ http://www.sojourner.us/software
    • Greg Chapman
      Hi Jody, ... Yes. The site allows you to submit virtually any mail list (Yahoo, Topica, Major Domo, etc) and then allow users to access the lists through a
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 13, 2006
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        Hi Jody,

        > >I have just discovered http://www.gmane.org/

        > I'm super busy as you can guess. Is the short of this that you
        > can go to the link and somehow use it for Fookes
        > Software/yahoogroups lists?

        Yes. The site allows you to submit virtually any mail list (Yahoo, Topica,
        Major Domo, etc) and then allow users to access the lists through a
        newsreader.

        There are a range of options which allow it to be totally public or private
        and spam protection, etc, is as preserved as is possible. One major
        advantage is that in high traffic lists become manageable again, as you can
        just download the headers and choose which bodies to download. This is
        useful for the increasing number of people using handheld/mobile machines
        with limited storage. I could go on.

        Sounds excellent in theory. Only takes a couple of minutes to affiliate
        your mail list, though you might want to spend a little more time thinking
        about the implications before you do! :-)

        Greg
      • Jody
        Hi Greg, Thanks! I guess I missed my point, or you did. Is this something that I have to setup or is it just the users that want to use it and it there
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 15, 2006
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          Hi Greg,

          Thanks! I guess I missed my point, or you did. Is this something
          that I have to setup or is it just the users that want to use it
          and it there maintenance to do if I have to do it?

          >> >I have just discovered http://www.gmane.org/
          >
          >> I'm super busy as you can guess. Is the short of this that you
          >> can go to the link and somehow use it for Fookes
          >> Software/yahoogroups lists?
          >
          >Yes. The site allows you to submit virtually any mail list (Yahoo, Topica,
          >Major Domo, etc) and then allow users to access the lists through a
          >newsreader.
          >
          >There are a range of options which allow it to be totally public or private
          >and spam protection, etc, is as preserved as is possible. One major
          >advantage is that in high traffic lists become manageable again, as you can
          >just download the headers and choose which bodies to download. This is
          >useful for the increasing number of people using handheld/mobile machines
          >with limited storage. I could go on.
          >
          >Sounds excellent in theory. Only takes a couple of minutes to affiliate
          >your mail list, though you might want to spend a little more time thinking
          >about the implications before you do! :-)
          >
          >Greg
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Greg Chapman
          Hi Jody, ... As list owner you need to set it up - or approve it at least. Then individuals can choose whether to take the newsgroup version or the original
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 15, 2006
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            Hi Jody,

            > Thanks! I guess I missed my point, or you did. Is this something
            > that I have to setup or is it just the users that want to use it
            > and it there maintenance to do if I have to do it?
            >
            > >> >I have just discovered http://www.gmane.org/

            As list owner you need to set it up - or approve it at least. Then
            individuals can choose whether to take the newsgroup version or the original
            list format.

            Essentially, a bot at gmane becomes a subscriber to the list. The bot
            forwards all messages sent to it out through an nntp (newsgroup) server.
            Anyone who subscribes to gmane's newsgroup and then posts through their
            newsreader then has their post forwarded to the list through gmane's
            subscription.

            As list owner, you customise the gmane subscription so that, for example,
            you can make it private and newsgroup subscribers must be subscribers to the
            list before their allowed to post. (With YahooGroups you simply set your
            mail list subscription to "nomail" and you'll only see the newsgroup
            version.

            Just have a quick browse of the site. You'll get the flavour. It's uses
            open source code and is run by someone in Norway.

            Seems a great idea for high volume lists where some subscribers may be put
            off joining by the prospect of receiving lots of unwanted mail just to pick
            up a few gems.

            I've just subscribed to one such list, but can't report on how well it works
            yet as the list owner hasn't yet approved my subscription! :-)

            Greg
          • loro
            ... The problem with gmain (if this hasn t changed) is that anyone can subscribe a list. This way lists have been archived and made available to the public
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 15, 2006
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              Greg Chapman wrote:
              >As list owner you need to set it up - or approve it at least. Then
              >individuals can choose whether to take the newsgroup version or the original
              >list format.

              The problem with gmain (if this hasn't changed) is that anyone can
              subscribe a list. This way lists have been archived and made available to
              the public when they weren't supposed to be. If you decide to subscribe the
              notatab lists, please use the spam obfuscation option. Don't need more
              spam, me.

              Lotta
            • Greg Chapman
              Hi Lotta, ... Must have changed! Take a look at: http://gmane.org/subscribe.php and you ll see that when a listowner subscribes to a list these days he has
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 16, 2006
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                Hi Lotta,

                > The problem with gmain (if this hasn't changed) is that anyone can
                > subscribe a list. This way lists have been archived and made available to
                > the public when they weren't supposed to be. If you decide to
                > subscribe the notatab lists, please use the spam obfuscation option. Don't
                > need more spam, me.

                Must have changed!

                Take a look at:
                http://gmane.org/subscribe.php
                and you'll see that when a listowner subscribes to a list these days he has
                these choices (amongst others)

                ==================
                Posting permissions

                - Posting allowed (default)
                - Read-only (for announcement lists, CVS logs etc.)
                - Non-public (posting through Gmane allowed for list members)
                - Unidirectional (no posting allowed through Gmane)

                Encrypt addresses:

                If you think that all addresses in this mailing list should be encrypted.
                This makes addresses look like larsi-SDHSGGHghsdyS@....

                Spam tagging

                Should spam be checked for and tagged in this group?
                ==================

                Do read the pages on Spam, Posting on the site. I think they do answer all
                your fears - but I'm always will to be corrected.

                Greg
              • loro
                ... Nuh. Looks like it used to. I see nothing about that only the original owner can subscribe a list. On the contrary, this implies that is not the case:
                Message 7 of 15 , Apr 16, 2006
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                  Greg Chapman wrote:
                  >Must have changed!
                  >
                  >Take a look at:
                  >http://gmane.org/subscribe.php
                  >and you'll see that when a listowner subscribes to a list these days he has
                  >these choices (amongst others)

                  Nuh. Looks like it used to. I see nothing about that only the "original
                  owner" can subscribe a list. On the contrary, this implies that is not the
                  case: "To subscribe a mailing list, fill out the form below. Please do not
                  subscribe lists that don't want to be carried by Gmane.". A list owner
                  wouldn't need that pointed out to him, I think. He wouldn't be there in the
                  first place if he didn't want his list subscribed.

                  >Encrypt addresses:
                  >
                  >If you think that all addresses in this mailing list should be encrypted.
                  >This makes addresses look like larsi-SDHSGGHghsdyS@....

                  Yes, I know. I'm just saying (to Jody) please use that option if
                  you subscribe Notetab.:-)

                  Lotta
                • Greg Chapman
                  Hi Lotta, ... Reading more carefully again, I realise that you are right. It needn t be the list owner that can subscribe a group. I guess Jody had better
                  Message 8 of 15 , Apr 16, 2006
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                    Hi Lotta,

                    > Nuh. Looks like it used to. I see nothing about that only the "original
                    > owner" can subscribe a list.

                    Reading more carefully again, I realise that you are right. It needn't be
                    the list owner that can subscribe a group.

                    I guess Jody had better place the Gmane domain in his banned list, if indeed
                    Yahoo allows you to be so broad a banning, unless he chooses to subscribe
                    Gmane - and I'd agree Encrypt Addresses is vital!

                    (Still like the idea of subscribing to high volume lists via news, though!)

                    Greg
                  • loro
                    Hi Greg, ... Hope I didn t make it sound like I don t approve. I don t care either way. I wouldn t use it but if others find it useful it s fine with me. I
                    Message 9 of 15 , Apr 17, 2006
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                      Hi Greg,
                      >(Still like the idea of subscribing to high volume lists via news, though!)

                      Hope I didn't make it sound like I don't approve. I don't care either way.
                      I wouldn't use it but if others find it useful it's fine with me. I just
                      wanted to make sure the email addies will be obfuscated. :-)

                      Lotta
                    • Jody
                      Hi Lotta, Greg, and Julie G., ... Personally, I don t want to find the time to do it, nor support it. I would rather not anybody from the list(s) do it, but
                      Message 10 of 15 , Apr 17, 2006
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                        Hi Lotta, Greg, and Julie G.,

                        >> (Still like the idea of subscribing to high volume lists via
                        >> news, though!)
                        >
                        >Hope I didn't make it sound like I don't approve. I don't care
                        >either way. I wouldn't use it but if others find it useful it's
                        >fine with me. I just wanted to make sure the email addies will be
                        >obfuscated. :-)

                        Personally, I don't want to find the time to do it, nor support
                        it. I would rather not anybody from the list(s) do it, but I'm
                        not going to block it, unless it becomes a problem. Julie is free
                        to support it at her own risk <vbg> if she wants to. If anybody
                        foresees a problem with it like somebody signing the list(s) up
                        and not doing it with the email addresses hidden, then we should
                        probably block it before it becomes a problem???

                        > I guess Jody had better place the Gmane domain in his banned
                        > list, if indeed Yahoo allows you to be so broad a banning,
                        > unless he chooses to subscribe Gmane - and I'd agree Encrypt
                        > Addresses is vital!


                        Happy Topics,
                        Jody

                        The NoteTab Off-Topic List
                        mailto:ntb-OffTopic-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        mailto:ntb-OffTopic-UnSubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                        All Fookes Software mailing lists and more...
                        http://www.fookes.us/maillist.htm
                        http://www.fookes.us/redir http://www.clean-funnies.com/
                        http://www.notetab.net/ http://www.sojourner.us/software
                      • Julie
                        Hi Jody - ... No time here at the moment... if you block now could you unblock if you decide to later? Julie
                        Message 11 of 15 , Apr 17, 2006
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                          Hi Jody -

                          >Personally, I don't want to find the time to do it, nor support
                          >it. I would rather not anybody from the list(s) do it, but I'm
                          >not going to block it, unless it becomes a problem. Julie is free
                          >to support it at her own risk <vbg> if she wants to. If anybody
                          >foresees a problem with it like somebody signing the list(s) up
                          >and not doing it with the email addresses hidden, then we should
                          >probably block it before it becomes a problem???

                          No time here at the moment... if you block now could you unblock if
                          you decide to later?

                          Julie
                        • Jody
                          Hi Julie, ... I was only going by what Greg said and ban the domain used to post the messages over on Gmane - Mail Lists to News Gateway . You know how to do
                          Message 12 of 15 , Apr 17, 2006
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                            Hi Julie,

                            >> Personally, I don't want to find the time to do it, nor support
                            >> it. I would rather not anybody from the list(s) do it, but I'm
                            >> not going to block it, unless it becomes a problem. Julie is
                            >> free to support it at her own risk <vbg if she wants to. If
                            >> anybody foresees a problem with it like somebody signing the
                            >> list(s) up and not doing it with the email addresses hidden,
                            >> then we should probably block it before it becomes a problem???
                            >
                            >No time here at the moment... if you block now could you unblock
                            >if you decide to later?

                            I was only going by what Greg said and ban the domain used to
                            post the messages over on "Gmane - Mail Lists to News Gateway".
                            You know how to do that. We/you would do it at yahoogroups. At
                            least that is all I think we could do. I wouldn't spend the
                            time unless you get bored someday. Here's the link that Greg
                            posted: http://www.gmane.org


                            Happy Topics,
                            Jody

                            The NoteTab Off-Topic List
                            mailto:ntb-OffTopic-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            mailto:ntb-OffTopic-UnSubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                            All Fookes Software mailing lists and more...
                            http://www.fookes.us/maillist.htm
                            http://www.fookes.us/redir http://www.clean-funnies.com/
                            http://www.notetab.net/ http://www.sojourner.us/software
                          • David Smart
                            My feeling would be that it is exposing the group members to a wider audience than they are signed up for. Certainly without their consent, but possibly also
                            Message 13 of 15 , Apr 17, 2006
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                              My feeling would be that it is exposing the group members to a wider audience than they are signed up for. Certainly without their consent, but possibly also without their knowledge.

                              Given concerns over news list trolling and spamming, I for one would certainly not be posting to a Yahoo group that is linked to a news gateway without my active consent.

                              Also, there's a very good possibility that it violates Yahoo groups rules. (Haven't looked, so this is just speculation.)

                              Regards, Dave S
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Julie
                              To: Jody
                              Cc: ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 9:02 AM
                              Subject: RE: [NTO] Gmane - Mail Lists to News Gateway


                              Hi Jody -

                              >Personally, I don't want to find the time to do it, nor support
                              >it. I would rather not anybody from the list(s) do it, but I'm
                              >not going to block it, unless it becomes a problem. Julie is free
                              >to support it at her own risk <vbg> if she wants to. If anybody
                              >foresees a problem with it like somebody signing the list(s) up
                              >and not doing it with the email addresses hidden, then we should
                              >probably block it before it becomes a problem???

                              No time here at the moment... if you block now could you unblock if
                              you decide to later?

                              Julie



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                            • Adrien Verlee
                              ... I agree! Please keep the mailinglist has it is now. Thank you. -- adrien
                              Message 14 of 15 , Apr 18, 2006
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                                Op di, 18-04-2006 te 16:45 +1000, schreef David Smart:
                                > My feeling would be that it is exposing the group members to a wider
                                > audience than they are signed up for. Certainly without their
                                > consent, but possibly also without their knowledge.
                                >
                                > Given concerns over news list trolling and spamming, I for one would
                                > certainly not be posting to a Yahoo group that is linked to a news
                                > gateway without my active consent.
                                >
                                > Also, there's a very good possibility that it violates Yahoo groups
                                > rules. (Haven't looked, so this is just speculation.)

                                I agree! Please keep the mailinglist has it is now. Thank you.
                                --
                                adrien
                              • Jody
                                Hi David and Adrien, ... Thanks for your feedback. Just a few negative responses is plenty for me to tell us that we should not do it. Normally, I have
                                Message 15 of 15 , Apr 18, 2006
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                                  Hi David and Adrien,

                                  >My feeling would be that it is exposing the group members to a
                                  >wider audience than they are signed up for. Certainly without
                                  >their consent, but possibly also without their knowledge.
                                  >
                                  >Given concerns over news list trolling and spamming, I for one
                                  >would certainly not be posting to a Yahoo group that is linked to
                                  >a news gateway without my active consent.

                                  Thanks for your feedback. Just a few negative responses is plenty
                                  for me to tell us that we should not do it. Normally, I have
                                  learned, that only a very small percentage of people actually
                                  post messages with their comments, to report bugs, etc. than
                                  actually have the same feelings/problems... It's even worse with
                                  web site errors. I have had front page spelling errors or broken
                                  links reported to me that have been like that for 5-10 years to
                                  give you an example.


                                  Happy Topics,
                                  Jody

                                  The NoteTab Off-Topic List
                                  mailto:ntb-OffTopic-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  mailto:ntb-OffTopic-UnSubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                  All Fookes Software mailing lists and more...
                                  http://www.fookes.us/maillist.htm
                                  http://www.fookes.us/redir http://www.clean-funnies.com/
                                  http://www.notetab.net/ http://www.sojourner.us/software
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