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Re: [NTO] Reformat C:\ drive

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  • Bill
    Hi Emmett, Jody, Larry, DA, Ray, You have given me a lot of info., suggestions and ideas to think about and I am making a check list of things to remember. It
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 8, 2000
      Hi Emmett, Jody, Larry, DA, Ray,

      You have given me a lot of info., suggestions and ideas to think about and I
      am making a check list of things to remember. It will take me a little while
      to prepare but did want to say your feedback is very much appreciated.

      Jody wrote:
      >Make sure you have all your passwords that I know you already have
      >backed up <g> *backed up* I have two or three floppies laying around
      >for them

      My passwords are on paper, how do you back them up on a floppy?

      >You will want to download a copy of COA if you do not have it if you
      >want to move your Program Files folder off of C:\. You can find it on
      >the PCMag section of http://www.zdnet.com

      Thanks, I found COA and by the way, the ZDNET download page has the
      following link today -
      Free File of the Day: Bible Atlas Maps
      View free PowerPoint maps of Bible lands
      http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/stories/info/0,,0012NS,.html

      >You will need to have or make at least once of the following though: DOS
      >bootup disk, Windows Startup disk, hard drive disk that has the format,
      >partitions etc. on it, or some other DOS utility that has the same. You
      >can make one as well, but it is basically the same as making a Windows
      >Startup disk. Personally, I think a DOS bootup disk is a real pain to use
      >if you are going to partition. My Western disk was real easy and so is
      >PQMagic. I have other utility disk that work real easy too. If you have
      >to use a regular DOS, I would study up on fdisk (if you are going to
      >partition) and format.

      >If you partition, fdisk will format sure enough!-) To get help on it at
      >the DOS prompt (Windows shell is fine) type in fdisk /? I have a Clip that
      >will bring the info up in an info box that I will add at the bottom of this
      >for you. You might want to Copy All from the Info box in NoteTab and print
      >it out if that is the method you are going to use. If you make a Win98
      >startup disk it has a CD driver on it, fdisk, help, format and a few others
      >as well.

      I have a Win95 and Win98 startup disk, also created PartitionMagic Rescue
      Disks (these are also called PQMagic I think?), have never used the latter.
      Would appreciate a copy of your clip to bring up an info box of DOS help
      commands, it wasn't "at the bottom...".

      >If not, you will need to make sure you have your CD drivers ready to
      >install so you can install from the CD like Emmett mentioned. You can make
      >a practice run on it if you want right before you get ready to reformat to
      >make sure you know how to do it. You should be able to even practice fdisk
      >on a floppy and make a few partitions on it. Just make sure you are alert
      >and don't tell it to do C:\ and answer "y" to >the question. ;)

      Good idea, thanks! I can use PartitionMagic to create say a 100 MB or 200MB
      partition, shut down, boot with PQMagic floppy, practice formatting and
      creating a few small partitions on this new drive.

      The Win98 startup disk has the CD drivers so I should be ok for a new
      Windows installation. Although, after adding additional partitions the CD
      drive will change from F: to a higher letter, and I'm wondering if after
      booting with Win98startup disk will I find the new CD drive letter, I'm
      guessing it will not be a problem and I can check it out after creating a
      couple of practice partitions?

      >Let us know the size of your drive, what you have to format/partition with,
      >what flavor of Windows and if you can boot up on a CD and perhaps we can
      >give you more exact information.

      Drive C: 4GB, 14% free (580MB) Windows and all applications
      Drive D: 2GB, 32% free (622MB) Data
      Drive E: 150MB (Swap File)
      Running Win95 and IE5, tried to upgrade to Win98 (on top of Win95)last year,
      too many problems, returned to Win95, system running not too bad, but still
      has a few quirks and many programs that are not required. (certainly not on
      a regular basis)
      no virus problem - touch wood!
      Tools available:
      PartitionMagic 5.0
      Tape backup drive - the hard disk is backed up and current.
      Have checked CMOS and cannot boot up on a CD

      After reading your responses would now like to format the hard disk
      completely, instead of just driveC: and create many more partitions, similar
      to what Jody described.

      >I can reformat and be back online answering e-mail in less than an hour now
      >if I am only doing C:\ drive

      >I use D:\ drive to keep all my big programs.

      Although you only have Windows on C:, do you still have to
      uninstall/reinstall all "big programs" on your D: drive when you are
      reformatting C: drive?

      As suggested, will locate and document settings, ini files, passwords,
      email, address book, dun info, drivers, etc and give it a try next week,
      after all it's only a computer.

      Thanks all for taking the time to reply,

      Bill
    • Harvey R. Savage
      ... When you d/loaded COA I hope you got COA32. That s the version for win95 and 98! ... -- ¿? Harvey R. Savage ¿? 40 Golf Course Road ¿? Eldorado, IL
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 8, 2000
        Bill wrote:
        >
        > Hi Emmett, Jody, Larry, DA, Ray,
        >
        > You have given me a lot of info., suggestions and ideas to think about and I
        > am making a check list of things to remember. It will take me a little while
        > to prepare but did want to say your feedback is very much appreciated.
        >
        > Jody wrote:
        > >Make sure you have all your passwords that I know you already have
        > >backed up <g> *backed up* I have two or three floppies laying around
        > >for them
        >
        > My passwords are on paper, how do you back them up on a floppy?
        >
        > >You will want to download a copy of COA if you do not have it if you
        > >want to move your Program Files folder off of C:\. You can find it on
        > >the PCMag section of http://www.zdnet.com

        When you d/loaded COA I hope you got COA32. That's the version
        for win95 and 98!

        > Thanks, I found COA and by the way, the ZDNET download page has the
        > following link today -
        > Free File of the Day: Bible Atlas Maps
        > View free PowerPoint maps of Bible lands
        > http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/stories/info/0,,0012NS,.html
        >
        >
        > Thanks all for taking the time to reply,
        >
        > Bill
        >

        --
        ¿? Harvey R. Savage
        ¿? 40 Golf Course Road
        ¿? Eldorado, IL 62930
        ¿? 618-273-5003
        ¿? icq 21106393
        ¿? hsavage@...
        ¿? (ktcalci)
      • Jim Hall
        Bill, (You might want to read this through and then print it out before you use it so that you won t have to memorize it.) Different Strokes for different
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 9, 2000
          Bill,

          (You might want to read this through and then print it out before you use
          it so that you won't have to memorize it.)

          Different Strokes for different folks but here are some other thoughts to
          consider in your endeavor. I do this on new and old systems of one type or
          another on a regular basis so it should work well for you and might give
          some others a few shortcuts/pointers along the way.

          When you can buy an 8GB hard drive for $69 and a 30GB for under $200 the
          fastest/easiest/cheapest way to back up a hard drive today is with another
          hard drive and disk space should not really be a concern, but if it is then
          see below.


          The main reasons for doing a low level hard drive format are:

          A. To format the drive for the hard drive controller that you are using on
          your system

          B. To Partition a drive for running multiple operating systems

          C. To partition a drive that is too large for your system to recognize as
          one large drive.

          D. To fully cleanse the drive of any virus

          E. To rebuild your bad block table.

          aside from these, there really is no need to do a low level format other
          than for practise but watching grass grow is more entertaining.


          The following are the only reasons one should consider partitioning a drive:

          A. Running multiple operating systems

          B. The drive is too large for your system to recognize as one large drive.

          C. Running Compressed Drives (see above regarding price of disk drive space)


          When you partition a drive you give up valuable disk space for FAT files
          and more partially used sectors that could otherwise be used for data
          storage. You also add pathing problems amoung others.

          (Of course there are those people who prefer to make 3 right turns instead
          of 1 left turn to change direction)

          Directories (Folders) are available for Organizing Application and Data
          files and do not waste the available space like partitions do.

          One could use partitions to allow the drive to limit it's seek area but
          laying your applications down contiguously (defragging or backing up to
          tape and then restoring the data) does the same thing only better and the
          application files are what take time to load.

          >Drive E: 150MB (Swap File)

          You have an entire (Wasted) fat file here just to list 1 file and no way to
          triple the size of your Virtual memory if you want to temporarily increase
          it to evaluate something.

          >Tape backup drive - the hard disk is backed up and current.

          All of the files on tape are contiguous and will be when you restore them
          to the Hard drive.

          >Drive C: 4GB, 14% free (580MB) Windows and all applications

          If your system will recognize a 4GB drive then it will recognize at least
          an 8GB drive so no reason here to partition your 7GB drive.


          Before doing the following:

          Take a 3 1/2 floppy and copy your tape backup files onto it for later use.

          See if your system will boot up from the Win98 startup disk WITH CDROM
          support and whether or not you can list the files on the CDROM.

          You may have to change your CMOS settings to allow your system to boot from
          the A drive.

          Depending on your system configuration the drive letter assigned to the
          CDROM drive will vary.

          Just do

          d: enter
          DIR/P enter

          e: enter
          DIR/P enter

          etc. until you figure out which drive it is.



          Here you go!



          >I have a Win95 and Win98 startup disk

          Throw away the Win95 disk and put the Win98 disk in your A drive and boot
          up without CDROM support (just to save time at this point).


          FDISK is on the Win98 startup disk so when you get the A:\ prompt just type

          FDISK

          FDISK is straight forward and you can backup or get out of it with the
          escape key.

          You can re run it as many times as needed to figure it out, without losing
          anything but a little time.

          It will first ask you if you want to run FAT32 and with that large drive
          you DO want to.

          Define your DOS Bootable Partition first, (add any others later if you are
          really so inclined) then exit and immediately reboot with the Win98 startup
          disk and boot up without CDROM support (just to save time at this point).

          When you boot up with the Win98 startup disk watch close and you will
          notice that the system creates a Ram Drive and loads several DOS
          maintenance files into it one of which is FORMAT.

          Depending on your system configuration the drive letter assigned to this
          RAM drive will vary.

          Just do

          d: enter
          DIR/P enter

          e: enter
          DIR/P enter

          etc. until you figure out which drive it is, then while in that drive type

          FORMAT C: enter

          and depending on the speed of your system it will take 10 to 60 minutes to
          fully format your drive. (1 to 3 cold beverages)

          Now reboot your Computer WITH CDROM support and put your Win98 CDROM in the
          CDROM DRIVE and depending on which drive letter is assigned to it (do the
          above search if you have to) type in the following:

          E:\WIN98\SETUP /IS

          The /IS keeps it from running that pesky Scan Disk which you don't need to do.

          If you don't have problems with available ram then Setup will run and on a
          new drive will take about 25 minutes to install Win98 (on this nice clean
          hard drive).

          If you have an insufficient ram available error here then Setup won't run
          and you will probably have to modify the Autoexec.bat and Config.sys files
          on the Win98 startup disk to eliminate the Ram Drive and Uneeded Drivers.

          If your Win98 CD is an upgrade version you will get an error saying that it
          can't find Windows.
          When this happens put your Win95 CD into the drive and it will find it and
          let you put the Win98 CD back in and continue and free up some resources.

          If you had not already done FORMAT C: (above) Then Setup will know and do
          it for you.

          After you have Win98 installed, copy the entire Win98 Directory from your
          CDROM onto your C drive this will be very handy for you for the next few
          days in case Win98 needs a driver or additional files. You can always
          eliminate this step and just use the CDROM but if you have the disk space
          available it is very handy.

          Then install/copy your Tape Drive Software from the floppy and with the
          overwrite turned OFF, restore from your tape backup all of the files that
          you want back on your Drive.

          Note here that depending on your backup software, sometimes, restoring your
          Registry will create double driver entries in your device manager and you
          will have to go in and remove the second entries manually. It is best not
          to restore the registry at this time, and not at all if you don't have to.

          After you restore the files then reinstall Win98 and it will find and add
          all registerable applications to your registry for you and you will have
          the same configuration that you had before this exercise.

          Now from tape restore all of your .PWD and .PWL files (Win98 Setup deletes
          the important ones.


          The above will give you one large contiguous fast drive with all
          configurations and passwords just as they were before you started in the
          minimum amount of time




          >Running Win95 and IE5, tried to upgrade to Win98 (on top of Win95)last year,
          >too many problems, returned to Win95, system running not too bad, but still
          >has a few quirks

          Doing the above a year ago would have eliminated about 95% of the quirks
          since most of them are caused by Win95.





          >The Win98 startup disk has the CD drivers so I should be ok for a new
          >Windows installation.

          You can't install Win95 with a Win98 startup disk but then why would anyone
          want to.

          >Although, after adding additional partitions the CD
          >drive will change from F: to a higher letter, and I'm wondering if after
          >booting with Win98startup disk will I find the new CD drive letter, I'm
          >guessing it will not be a problem and I can check it out after creating a
          >couple of practice partitions?

          See Above


          >After reading your responses would now like to format the hard disk
          >completely, instead of just driveC: and create many more partitions, similar
          >to what Jody described.

          See Above regarding reasons for partitions and wasted space


          > >I can reformat and be back online answering e-mail in less than an hour now
          > >if I am only doing C:\ drive
          >
          > >I use D:\ drive to keep all my big programs.

          See above regarding the purpose of directories (folders)


          >Although you only have Windows on C:, do you still have to
          >uninstall/reinstall all "big programs" on your D: drive when you are
          >reformatting C: drive?

          See above regarding restoring from Tape

          You only want to reinstall all of your applications if you absolutely have
          to because it is like starting all over from scratch (Worse than starting
          over with a new wife) and is very time consuming and requires reconfiguring
          each one of them from scratch (or keeping track of all of your old
          cfg/ini/dat/pwd etc. files, AND THEIR PATHS and this process can keep you
          frustrated and grouchy until you have used and resetup every Application
          that you use. And I guarantee that you won't want to do it twice if you use
          very many Applications and you won't realise how many you do use until you
          go through it once.


          >As suggested, will locate and document settings, ini files, passwords,
          >email, address book, dun info, drivers, etc and give it a try next week,
          >after all it's only a computer.

          I'll bet you miss a lot of them - thank goodness they are on tape and if
          you got the dadblasted confangled thing to work once then you can get it to
          work again. (If you have enough cold beverages)


          Have fun and make sure you can use your neighbor's computer to e-mail me if
          you have problems.

          Regards,
          Jim Hall
          **********************************************
          Intel Pentium III-500
          384 MB RAM
          1GB Virtual Memory
          Dual Mirrored 30GB Drives
          32MB Diamond Viper V770 Ultra
          1920 X 1440 x 32 bit
          21" ViewSonic
          IntelliMouse Explorer
          Windows98 First Edition + Upgrades
          Internet Explorer 5.0
          Note Tab Pro 4.82
          **********************************************
          jehall@...




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jody
          Hi Bill, ... As you saw Jim gave you some good ones as well which I was hoping he and Marco and others would have replied. Jim s as always, is certainly a
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 9, 2000
            Hi Bill,

            > You have given me a lot of info., suggestions and ideas to
            > think about and I am making a check list of things to remember.

            As you saw Jim gave you some good ones as well which I was hoping
            he and Marco and others would have replied. Jim's as always, is
            certainly a keeper. ;) As both Jim and I noted though, a lot of
            this depends on personal preference and your machine.

            > My passwords are on paper, how do you back them up on a floppy?

            Put them in a text file. ;) Jim listed the places you can find
            many of them on your system and you can copy those to the floppy
            as well then just restore them to their correct location when
            needed.

            > Thanks, I found COA and by the way...

            It is a great utility for mover folders, etc. to new locations.

            > View free PowerPoint maps of Bible lands
            > http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/stories/info/0,,0012NS,.html

            Thanks! :)

            > I have a Win95 and Win98 startup disk,

            You can keep the Win95 Startup disk in case a friend gets in
            trouble someday if you do not have other means or use it for
            something else.

            > Would appreciate a copy of your clip to bring up an info box of
            > DOS help commands, it wasn't "at the bottom...".

            This is modified a slight bit from what Eb G. sent me. I had
            another one around somewhere, but the biggest problem with Clips
            is finding them when you want them. :) I find sometimes it is
            faster to just write a new one when needed than trying to Search
            Disk for it. I have 1000s of Clips. ;) I though about putting
            them in a Library for my sire and calling it Jody's Junk: Use at
            own Risk. <g> ^!SetWizardTitle is one line.

            H=DOS Help /?
            ^!Set %command%=^?{Type the bare DOS command for help}
            ^!SetWizardTitle ~^$StrFill(" ";60)$www.sureword.com/notetab^$StrFill(" ";60)$~
            ^!Info [L]^$GetDosOutput(^%command% /?)$

            > Good idea, thanks! I can use PartitionMagic to create say a 100
            > MB or 200MB partition, shut down, boot with PQMagic floppy,
            > practice formatting and creating a few small partitions on this
            > new drive.

            Yep, if you decide to partition to a few more drives you are home
            free with PQMagic. I have a 10BG+ drive and only use half of it
            so I am not concerned about how much wasted space there is with
            FAT. I find it so much easier for me to navigate in Windows
            Explorer with the six or so drives I have than to only use C:\
            drive. I also believe my programs open much faster and Windows
            runs much better when I leave C:\ for Windows by itself, but that
            could all be in my dreams. :) Dennis Cummins uses InControl as I
            mentioned and moves all the .dlls he can out of System and swears
            on it. ;) Seems like a lot of work to me, but I may do it some
            day when I get a backup drive on a fresh install. I despise a slow
            machine. ;)

            > The Win98 startup disk has the CD drivers so I should be ok for
            > a new Windows installation.

            Yes, Jim went over that. The CD will be configured by Windows
            and automatically shift to the last drive as you add partitions
            if you do.

            > Drive C: 4GB, 14% free (580MB) Windows and all applications

            I bet if you installed have of your software on your new load you
            would not even miss the rest of it. I got by for a long time on
            a 520MB drive. <g> I can still do just fine on 1GB if I don't
            keep my installation programs. 2GB is luxury for me. :)

            > Tape backup drive - the hard disk is backed up and current.

            I would not use your current backup and especially not the
            registry. Why load your problems back on again? That is the
            whole reason you started this thing to begin with I think. ;) If
            I could afford another drive for backup or a tape drive, I would
            wait until I did a clean new install of everything and then only
            the essential daily software that I use on a daily basis and the
            utilities, etc. that are contained in their own folder structure
            and do not write to the registry. I would also put on the backup
            drive all my installation programs and those are what I would
            keep updated leaving my "Startup Backup" untouched until the next
            time I did a format.

            > After reading your responses would now like to format the hard
            > disk completely, instead of just driveC: and create many more
            > partitions, similar to what Jody described.

            Keep in mind you have a 6GB drive and the more you make as Jim
            was getting at the more space you will loose. I agree with you
            to just start from scratch though since you have the backup
            drives and that you have not done this in a long time. If you
            install and install a lot of programs due to trying them out -
            you probably have many MB of .dlls unused and many entries in the
            registry going nowhere. There are utilities to clean both of
            them, some more powerful than others or should I say some give
            you a number of entires that are questionable and you might mess
            up if you just start deleting them all. I have never had a
            problem with MS RegClean even though it does not get them all.
            Kevin Solway's CleanSys http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ksolway/ does
            a good job on the.dlls and backs them up should you need them.
            Occasionally I run it and a program will tell me it is missing
            a .dll so I restore that one and all it well. His CleanReg is
            the one I mentioned you have to be careful with. ;) You can try
            them out right before you get ready to format and if you mess up
            - who cares. <g>

            > Although you only have Windows on C:, do you still have to
            > uninstall/reinstall all "big programs" on your D: drive when
            > you are reformatting C: drive?

            No, but if you are going to reformat it all you are going to have
            to reinstall a number of them, because most likely they write to
            the registry and as the gentleman mentioned it is more hassle
            than it is worth to try to backup the registry for just those
            programs independently. There may be a utility for that though.

            Sometimes I just drag/drop them and if they still work, then I
            know they do not use the registry so I leave them installed. At
            other times depending on what I am doing I drag/drop and then run
            COA updating everything which takes about the amount of time to
            get a cup of coffee and perhaps a trip to the restroom. :)

            > As suggested, will locate and document settings, ini files,
            > passwords, email, address book, dun info, drivers, etc and give
            > it a try next week, after all it's only a computer.

            If you are reformatting everything and starting from scratch that
            is the way to go. It might take you a little while, but you
            could make a list of what goes where giving their full path in a
            file. I would just make a Clip to move them all from A:\ to the
            hard drive with a click. ;)

            How much RAM do you have?

            Happy Topics,
            Jody

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          • Bill
            Hi Harvey, ... Yes, COA32 is the version I downloaded, thanks, Bill
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 9, 2000
              Hi Harvey,
              > When you d/loaded COA I hope you got . That's the version
              > for win95 and 98!

              Yes, COA32 is the version I downloaded, thanks,

              Bill
            • Bill
              Hi Jody, ... Thanks for the clip, its a keeper for me, works fine. ... Have 64MB memory and three year old motherboard (Intel chipset) can t cache more than
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 10, 2000
                Hi Jody,

                >H=DOS Help /?
                Thanks for the clip, its a keeper for me, works fine.

                >How much RAM do you have?

                Have 64MB memory and three year old motherboard (Intel chipset) can't cache
                more than that.

                Regards,

                Bill
              • Jody
                Hi Bill, ... OK, just wanted to make sure you did not only have 4MB or the like. Happy Topics, Jody The NoteTab Off-Topic List
                Message 7 of 7 , Jul 10, 2000
                  Hi Bill,

                  >> How much RAM do you have?
                  >
                  > Have 64MB memory and three year old motherboard (Intel chipset)
                  > can't cache more than that.

                  OK, just wanted to make sure you did not only have 4MB or the
                  like. <bg>

                  Happy Topics,
                  Jody

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