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Re: [NTO] IE7 Beta2 public release

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  • Ed
    Don htmlfixit wrote: Firefox appears to run about 7% on the low end up to nearly 50% on some web design sites. Despite the move to free, Opera appears to be
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 2 4:27 AM
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      Don htmlfixit wrote:
      Firefox appears to run about 7% on the low end up to nearly 50% on some
      web design sites.

      Despite the move to free, Opera appears to be left behind in all but
      niche markets.
      Don,
      Do you know how easy it is to break into Opera. I like it in general better than firefox. I have to use IE 6 in order to upgrade my XP Pro. That is about the only place that I use it now. Just got Firefox downloaded and working on this Notebook where I now do 80% of my work now.
      Ed


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    • sisterscape
      ... registry ... back! ... I also went though the nightmare that the December updates created with IE 7. It did not however, affect my standalone versions of
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 2 7:58 AM
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        --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, "Fay Johnston" <feigh@...> wrote:
        >
        > Word of warning: I ran the IE7b1 standalone and it wrought havoc with
        > IE6--made it unusable-- and messed up a few other things. It took
        registry
        > editing to get back to square one. I'm too scared now to even put 5
        back!
        >

        I also went though the nightmare that the December updates created with
        IE 7. It did not however, affect my standalone versions of IE 5 and
        5.5.
      • sisterscape
        ... with ... Hmmm, Don. I thought you, of all people, would get the drift of this post. It has nothing to do with personal browser preference. It is about
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 2 8:11 AM
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          --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, "Don - htmlfixit.com" <don@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Lol, Firefox released 1.5.0.1. Get a real browser ;-)
          > I at one time had 4,5,6 all running at once. I have not bothered
          with
          > 7. It is so slim a number of users that it just isn't worth it.
          >

          Hmmm, Don. I thought you, of all people, would 'get' the drift of
          this post. It has nothing to do with personal browser preference.
          It is about designers being prepared for the transition from IE6 to
          IE7.

          When Vista is released and IE6 no longer being distributed on all
          those new computers, I really don't want the pressure of having to
          fix things after the fact. Unless there is a major shift in the
          market, it is unlikely that the majority of users out there will ever
          use FF or Opera or [insert browser of your choice]. I just wanted to
          give y'all a heads-up and a jump start on the headache this will
          likely create for designers on this list.




          sisterscape
        • Don - htmlfixit.com
          ... Sister, I knew what you were talking about ... that get a browser was said tongue in cheek in jest. Humor sometimes misses the mark in email and perhaps
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 2 7:53 PM
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            sisterscape wrote:
            > --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, "Don - htmlfixit.com" <don@...>
            > wrote:
            >
            >>Lol, Firefox released 1.5.0.1. Get a real browser ;-)
            >>I at one time had 4,5,6 all running at once. I have not bothered
            >
            > with
            >
            >>7. It is so slim a number of users that it just isn't worth it.
            > Hmmm, Don. I thought you, of all people, would 'get' the drift of
            > this post. It has nothing to do with personal browser preference.
            > It is about designers being prepared for the transition from IE6 to
            > IE7.
            >
            > When Vista is released and IE6 no longer being distributed on all
            > those new computers, I really don't want the pressure of having to
            > fix things after the fact. Unless there is a major shift in the
            > market, it is unlikely that the majority of users out there will ever
            > use FF or Opera or [insert browser of your choice]. I just wanted to
            > give y'all a heads-up and a jump start on the headache this will
            > likely create for designers on this list.
            >
            > sisterscape
            >
            Sister,

            I knew what you were talking about ... that "get a browser" was said
            tongue in cheek in jest.
            Humor sometimes misses the mark in email and perhaps I didn't get the
            punchline correct.

            I had this very conversation with a client today:
            Why code for seven when nobody has it yet? ... Because every new
            computer will have it in about 3 months ... so why have to fix pages
            later? Oh. End of conversation. I went to download it and realize my
            main two computers won't run it ... Win NT and Win 2000. But I am
            slowly equipping a new laptop, so I'll run it on that. I am wondering
            from what my client said if in fact they fixed the broken box model so
            that the same code will work on it as already works on Firefox. What
            are you figuring out?

            Sorry if I caused confusion.

            Don
          • loro
            ... Don, they fixed that four or five years ago already. Just go ahead and use it. Lotta
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 2 8:39 PM
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              Don wrote:
              >I am wondering from what my client said if in fact they fixed the broken
              >box model so that the same code will work on it as already works on
              >Firefox. What are you figuring out?

              Don, they fixed that four or five years ago already. Just go ahead and use it.

              Lotta
            • Don - htmlfixit.com
              ... Lotta, you are much smarter than me on such issues as CSS (or more learned is a better term perhaps). I still find that when I create menus for example in
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 2 9:08 PM
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                loro wrote:
                > Don wrote:
                >
                >>I am wondering from what my client said if in fact they fixed the broken
                >>box model so that the same code will work on it as already works on
                >>Firefox. What are you figuring out?
                >
                >
                > Don, they fixed that four or five years ago already. Just go ahead and use it.
                >
                > Lotta
                >
                Lotta, you are much smarter than me on such issues as CSS (or more
                learned is a better term perhaps). I still find that when I create
                menus for example in css that I need to change the dimensions in IE vs
                Firefox to get it to work properly. I call this the broken box model
                because I continue to think it is becuase the padding/margin/div size
                aren't treated the same in opera/firefox vs ie. Perhaps I am wrong, but
                I definately have to feed diff. widths to IE for it to work right. All
                insight appreciated or wise woman :-)

                Don
              • sisterscape
                Could this be your problem? IE has a double margin bug on the side of a float nearest either the windows (or containers) edge. This means that the first float
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 2 9:33 PM
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                  Could this be your problem?

                  "IE has a double margin bug on the side of a float nearest either the
                  windows (or containers) edge. This means that the first float next to
                  the left side or right of a window will get its right or left margin
                  doubled. Subsequent floats are not affected.

                  The solution is to add display:inline to the float which for some
                  strange reason fixes ie. It is however ignored by all other browsers
                  because you can't actually make a float display:inline as it's hard
                  coded as display:block all the time by default. This means its safe to
                  use and will have no ill effects."

                  Or this?

                  "IE always adds about 3 pixels of padding around floats when aligned
                  next to static content (floats next to floats are ok and don't have
                  this problem which is why people will put floats together to avoid the
                  problem.)"

                  Read more at:
                  http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1374925&postcount=15

                  --- "Don - htmlfixit.com" <don@...> wrote:

                  > loro wrote:
                  > > Don wrote:
                  > >
                  > >>I am wondering from what my client said if in fact they fixed the
                  > broken
                  > >>box model so that the same code will work on it as already works on
                  >
                  > >>Firefox. What are you figuring out?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Don, they fixed that four or five years ago already. Just go ahead
                  > and use it.
                  > >
                  > > Lotta
                  > >
                  > Lotta, you are much smarter than me on such issues as CSS (or more
                  > learned is a better term perhaps). I still find that when I create
                  > menus for example in css that I need to change the dimensions in IE
                  > vs
                  > Firefox to get it to work properly. I call this the broken box model
                  >
                  > because I continue to think it is becuase the padding/margin/div size
                  >
                  > aren't treated the same in opera/firefox vs ie. Perhaps I am wrong,
                  > but
                  > I definately have to feed diff. widths to IE for it to work right.
                  > All
                  > insight appreciated or wise woman :-)
                  >
                  > Don
                  >

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                • dave
                  hi has anyone read this site good read http://msdn.microsoft.com/ie/releasenotes/default.aspx THANKYOU DAVE M ... From: loro
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 2 10:01 PM
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                    hi
                    has anyone read this site good read
                    http://msdn.microsoft.com/ie/releasenotes/default.aspx
                    THANKYOU DAVE M

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "loro" <loro-spam01-@...>
                    To: <ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:39 PM
                    Subject: Re: [NTO] IE7 Beta2 public release


                    > Don wrote:
                    >>I am wondering from what my client said if in fact they fixed the broken
                    >>box model so that the same code will work on it as already works on
                    >>Firefox. What are you figuring out?
                    >
                    > Don, they fixed that four or five years ago already. Just go ahead and use
                    > it.
                    >
                    > Lotta
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • sisterscape
                    Here s another thought. Browser have different default margins and padding for elements. It s a good idea to set everythign to 0 in your stylesheet like
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 2 11:08 PM
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                      Here's another thought. Browser have different default margins and
                      padding for elements. It's a good idea to set everythign to 0 in
                      your stylesheet like this:

                      * {


                      }
                      > --- "Don - htmlfixit.com" <don@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > loro wrote:
                      > > > Don wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > >>I am wondering from what my client said if in fact they fixed
                      the
                      > > broken
                      > > >>box model so that the same code will work on it as already
                      works on
                      > >
                      > > >>Firefox. What are you figuring out?
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Don, they fixed that four or five years ago already. Just go
                      ahead
                      > > and use it.
                      > > >
                      > > > Lotta
                      > > >
                      > > Lotta, you are much smarter than me on such issues as CSS (or
                      more
                      > > learned is a better term perhaps). I still find that when I
                      create
                      > > menus for example in css that I need to change the dimensions in
                      IE
                      > > vs
                      > > Firefox to get it to work properly. I call this the broken box
                      model
                      > >
                      > > because I continue to think it is becuase the padding/margin/div
                      size
                      > >
                      > > aren't treated the same in opera/firefox vs ie. Perhaps I am
                      wrong,
                      > > but
                      > > I definately have to feed diff. widths to IE for it to work
                      right.
                      > > All
                      > > insight appreciated or wise woman :-)
                      > >
                      > > Don
                      > >
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________
                      > Do You Yahoo!?
                      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      > http://mail.yahoo.com
                      >
                    • sisterscape
                      Here s another thought. Browser have different default margins and padding for elements. It s a good idea to set everythign to 0 in your stylesheet like
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 2 11:08 PM
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                        Here's another thought. Browser have different default margins and
                        padding for elements. It's a good idea to set everythign to 0 in
                        your stylesheet like this:

                        * {


                        }
                        > --- "Don - htmlfixit.com" <don@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > loro wrote:
                        > > > Don wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >>I am wondering from what my client said if in fact they fixed
                        the
                        > > broken
                        > > >>box model so that the same code will work on it as already
                        works on
                        > >
                        > > >>Firefox. What are you figuring out?
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Don, they fixed that four or five years ago already. Just go
                        ahead
                        > > and use it.
                        > > >
                        > > > Lotta
                        > > >
                        > > Lotta, you are much smarter than me on such issues as CSS (or
                        more
                        > > learned is a better term perhaps). I still find that when I
                        create
                        > > menus for example in css that I need to change the dimensions in
                        IE
                        > > vs
                        > > Firefox to get it to work properly. I call this the broken box
                        model
                        > >
                        > > because I continue to think it is becuase the padding/margin/div
                        size
                        > >
                        > > aren't treated the same in opera/firefox vs ie. Perhaps I am
                        wrong,
                        > > but
                        > > I definately have to feed diff. widths to IE for it to work
                        right.
                        > > All
                        > > insight appreciated or wise woman :-)
                        > >
                        > > Don
                        > >
                        >
                        > __________________________________________________
                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                        > http://mail.yahoo.com
                        >
                      • sisterscape
                        Ignore the last post. It was sent accidently. Here it is again and complete this time . . . hopefully. Here s another thought. Browsers have different
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 2 11:12 PM
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                          Ignore the last post. It was sent accidently. Here it is again and
                          complete this time . . . hopefully.

                          Here's another thought. Browsers have different default margins and
                          padding for elements. It's a good idea to set everything to 0 in
                          your stylesheet like this:

                          * {
                          padding: 0 ;
                          margin: 0 ;
                          }

                          I always put that right after the body styles.

                          sisterscape

                          > > --- "Don - htmlfixit.com" <don@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > Lotta, you are much smarter than me on such issues as CSS (or
                          > more
                          > > > learned is a better term perhaps). I still find that when I
                          > create
                          > > > menus for example in css that I need to change the dimensions
                          in
                          > IE
                          > > > vs
                          > > > Firefox to get it to work properly. I call this the broken box
                          > model
                          > > >
                          > > > because I continue to think it is becuase the
                          padding/margin/div
                          > size
                          > > >
                          > > > aren't treated the same in opera/firefox vs ie. Perhaps I am
                          > wrong,
                          > > > but
                          > > > I definately have to feed diff. widths to IE for it to work
                          > right.
                          > > > All
                          > > > insight appreciated or wise woman :-)
                          > > >
                          > > > Don
                          > > >
                          > >
                        • sisterscape
                          I ve decided that I m going to wait a bit before starting to rewrite code because there are so many bugs in it right now. When things get more sorted out some
                          Message 12 of 15 , Feb 2 11:25 PM
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                            I've decided that I'm going to wait a bit before starting to rewrite
                            code because there are so many bugs in it right now. When things get
                            more sorted out some months down the line, I'll probably try to do a
                            side-by-side version to begin testing. I suspect the final release
                            won't be till the end of the year at the earliest. Since IE7
                            currently breaks Juno, I can't overwrite IE6 in any case.

                            On the MSDN blog it seems there are still some problems with
                            margins/padding under certain circumstances. Hopefully that will get
                            fixed. I usually avoid the box model problem by adding a separate
                            div for padding rather than including it with the parent element.
                            Those extra divs have saved BIG headaches.

                            --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, "Don - htmlfixit.com" <don@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > Sister,
                            >
                            > I knew what you were talking about ... that "get a browser" was
                            said
                            > tongue in cheek in jest.
                            > Humor sometimes misses the mark in email and perhaps I didn't get
                            the
                            > punchline correct.
                            >
                            > I had this very conversation with a client today:
                            > Why code for seven when nobody has it yet? ... Because every new
                            > computer will have it in about 3 months ... so why have to fix
                            pages
                            > later? Oh. End of conversation. I went to download it and realize
                            my
                            > main two computers won't run it ... Win NT and Win 2000. But I am
                            > slowly equipping a new laptop, so I'll run it on that. I am
                            wondering
                            > from what my client said if in fact they fixed the broken box model
                            so
                            > that the same code will work on it as already works on Firefox.
                            What
                            > are you figuring out?
                            >
                            > Sorry if I caused confusion.
                            >
                            > Don
                            >
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