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Re: [NTO] IE7 Beta2 public release

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  • Fay Johnston
    ... Word of warning: I ran the IE7b1 standalone and it wrought havoc with IE6--made it unusable-- and messed up a few other things. It took registry editing to
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 2, 2006
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      sisterscape wrote:

      > IE7 Beta2 was released yesterday -
      > Some hacks are emerging to
      > run it in side-by-side mode but haven't sorted out enough for me to
      > feel comfortable taking the plunge.

      Word of warning: I ran the IE7b1 standalone and it wrought havoc with
      IE6--made it unusable-- and messed up a few other things. It took registry
      editing to get back to square one. I'm too scared now to even put 5 back!
    • Don - htmlfixit.com
      ... Lol, Firefox released 1.5.0.1. Get a real browser ;-) I at one time had 4,5,6 all running at once. I have not bothered with 7. It is so slim a number of
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 2, 2006
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        Fay Johnston wrote:
        > sisterscape wrote:
        >
        >
        >>IE7 Beta2 was released yesterday -
        >>Some hacks are emerging to
        >>run it in side-by-side mode but haven't sorted out enough for me to
        >>feel comfortable taking the plunge.
        >
        >
        > Word of warning: I ran the IE7b1 standalone and it wrought havoc with
        > IE6--made it unusable-- and messed up a few other things. It took registry
        > editing to get back to square one. I'm too scared now to even put 5 back!
        >
        >
        Lol, Firefox released 1.5.0.1. Get a real browser ;-)
        I at one time had 4,5,6 all running at once. I have not bothered with
        7. It is so slim a number of users that it just isn't worth it.

        It appears that IE 6 runs from 75% down to about 50% depending on type
        of site. The more technical the site the more people on Firefox because
        those users understand the true risk of using Internet Explorer when
        connected to the internet. 4 is basically non-existant and 5 is pretty
        slim as well. I do not think it worth hacking for either of these
        UNLESS your client is still using one for some reason that you cannot
        dissuade them of.

        Firefox appears to run about 7% on the low end up to nearly 50% on some
        web design sites.

        Despite the move to free, Opera appears to be left behind in all but
        niche markets.
      • Don - htmlfixit.com
        PS. Firefox 1.5.0.1 was released quietly overnight. If you update it will disallow a bunch of your extensions as they apparently didn t share with the
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 2, 2006
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          PS. Firefox 1.5.0.1 was released quietly overnight. If you update it
          will disallow a bunch of your extensions as they apparently didn't share
          with the developers the concept of a new release in the pipeline.
        • Ed
          Don htmlfixit wrote: Firefox appears to run about 7% on the low end up to nearly 50% on some web design sites. Despite the move to free, Opera appears to be
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 2, 2006
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            Don htmlfixit wrote:
            Firefox appears to run about 7% on the low end up to nearly 50% on some
            web design sites.

            Despite the move to free, Opera appears to be left behind in all but
            niche markets.
            Don,
            Do you know how easy it is to break into Opera. I like it in general better than firefox. I have to use IE 6 in order to upgrade my XP Pro. That is about the only place that I use it now. Just got Firefox downloaded and working on this Notebook where I now do 80% of my work now.
            Ed


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          • sisterscape
            ... registry ... back! ... I also went though the nightmare that the December updates created with IE 7. It did not however, affect my standalone versions of
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 2, 2006
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              --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, "Fay Johnston" <feigh@...> wrote:
              >
              > Word of warning: I ran the IE7b1 standalone and it wrought havoc with
              > IE6--made it unusable-- and messed up a few other things. It took
              registry
              > editing to get back to square one. I'm too scared now to even put 5
              back!
              >

              I also went though the nightmare that the December updates created with
              IE 7. It did not however, affect my standalone versions of IE 5 and
              5.5.
            • sisterscape
              ... with ... Hmmm, Don. I thought you, of all people, would get the drift of this post. It has nothing to do with personal browser preference. It is about
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 2, 2006
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                --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, "Don - htmlfixit.com" <don@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Lol, Firefox released 1.5.0.1. Get a real browser ;-)
                > I at one time had 4,5,6 all running at once. I have not bothered
                with
                > 7. It is so slim a number of users that it just isn't worth it.
                >

                Hmmm, Don. I thought you, of all people, would 'get' the drift of
                this post. It has nothing to do with personal browser preference.
                It is about designers being prepared for the transition from IE6 to
                IE7.

                When Vista is released and IE6 no longer being distributed on all
                those new computers, I really don't want the pressure of having to
                fix things after the fact. Unless there is a major shift in the
                market, it is unlikely that the majority of users out there will ever
                use FF or Opera or [insert browser of your choice]. I just wanted to
                give y'all a heads-up and a jump start on the headache this will
                likely create for designers on this list.




                sisterscape
              • Don - htmlfixit.com
                ... Sister, I knew what you were talking about ... that get a browser was said tongue in cheek in jest. Humor sometimes misses the mark in email and perhaps
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 2, 2006
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                  sisterscape wrote:
                  > --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, "Don - htmlfixit.com" <don@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  >>Lol, Firefox released 1.5.0.1. Get a real browser ;-)
                  >>I at one time had 4,5,6 all running at once. I have not bothered
                  >
                  > with
                  >
                  >>7. It is so slim a number of users that it just isn't worth it.
                  > Hmmm, Don. I thought you, of all people, would 'get' the drift of
                  > this post. It has nothing to do with personal browser preference.
                  > It is about designers being prepared for the transition from IE6 to
                  > IE7.
                  >
                  > When Vista is released and IE6 no longer being distributed on all
                  > those new computers, I really don't want the pressure of having to
                  > fix things after the fact. Unless there is a major shift in the
                  > market, it is unlikely that the majority of users out there will ever
                  > use FF or Opera or [insert browser of your choice]. I just wanted to
                  > give y'all a heads-up and a jump start on the headache this will
                  > likely create for designers on this list.
                  >
                  > sisterscape
                  >
                  Sister,

                  I knew what you were talking about ... that "get a browser" was said
                  tongue in cheek in jest.
                  Humor sometimes misses the mark in email and perhaps I didn't get the
                  punchline correct.

                  I had this very conversation with a client today:
                  Why code for seven when nobody has it yet? ... Because every new
                  computer will have it in about 3 months ... so why have to fix pages
                  later? Oh. End of conversation. I went to download it and realize my
                  main two computers won't run it ... Win NT and Win 2000. But I am
                  slowly equipping a new laptop, so I'll run it on that. I am wondering
                  from what my client said if in fact they fixed the broken box model so
                  that the same code will work on it as already works on Firefox. What
                  are you figuring out?

                  Sorry if I caused confusion.

                  Don
                • loro
                  ... Don, they fixed that four or five years ago already. Just go ahead and use it. Lotta
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 2, 2006
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                    Don wrote:
                    >I am wondering from what my client said if in fact they fixed the broken
                    >box model so that the same code will work on it as already works on
                    >Firefox. What are you figuring out?

                    Don, they fixed that four or five years ago already. Just go ahead and use it.

                    Lotta
                  • Don - htmlfixit.com
                    ... Lotta, you are much smarter than me on such issues as CSS (or more learned is a better term perhaps). I still find that when I create menus for example in
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 2, 2006
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                      loro wrote:
                      > Don wrote:
                      >
                      >>I am wondering from what my client said if in fact they fixed the broken
                      >>box model so that the same code will work on it as already works on
                      >>Firefox. What are you figuring out?
                      >
                      >
                      > Don, they fixed that four or five years ago already. Just go ahead and use it.
                      >
                      > Lotta
                      >
                      Lotta, you are much smarter than me on such issues as CSS (or more
                      learned is a better term perhaps). I still find that when I create
                      menus for example in css that I need to change the dimensions in IE vs
                      Firefox to get it to work properly. I call this the broken box model
                      because I continue to think it is becuase the padding/margin/div size
                      aren't treated the same in opera/firefox vs ie. Perhaps I am wrong, but
                      I definately have to feed diff. widths to IE for it to work right. All
                      insight appreciated or wise woman :-)

                      Don
                    • sisterscape
                      Could this be your problem? IE has a double margin bug on the side of a float nearest either the windows (or containers) edge. This means that the first float
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 2, 2006
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                        Could this be your problem?

                        "IE has a double margin bug on the side of a float nearest either the
                        windows (or containers) edge. This means that the first float next to
                        the left side or right of a window will get its right or left margin
                        doubled. Subsequent floats are not affected.

                        The solution is to add display:inline to the float which for some
                        strange reason fixes ie. It is however ignored by all other browsers
                        because you can't actually make a float display:inline as it's hard
                        coded as display:block all the time by default. This means its safe to
                        use and will have no ill effects."

                        Or this?

                        "IE always adds about 3 pixels of padding around floats when aligned
                        next to static content (floats next to floats are ok and don't have
                        this problem which is why people will put floats together to avoid the
                        problem.)"

                        Read more at:
                        http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1374925&postcount=15

                        --- "Don - htmlfixit.com" <don@...> wrote:

                        > loro wrote:
                        > > Don wrote:
                        > >
                        > >>I am wondering from what my client said if in fact they fixed the
                        > broken
                        > >>box model so that the same code will work on it as already works on
                        >
                        > >>Firefox. What are you figuring out?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Don, they fixed that four or five years ago already. Just go ahead
                        > and use it.
                        > >
                        > > Lotta
                        > >
                        > Lotta, you are much smarter than me on such issues as CSS (or more
                        > learned is a better term perhaps). I still find that when I create
                        > menus for example in css that I need to change the dimensions in IE
                        > vs
                        > Firefox to get it to work properly. I call this the broken box model
                        >
                        > because I continue to think it is becuase the padding/margin/div size
                        >
                        > aren't treated the same in opera/firefox vs ie. Perhaps I am wrong,
                        > but
                        > I definately have to feed diff. widths to IE for it to work right.
                        > All
                        > insight appreciated or wise woman :-)
                        >
                        > Don
                        >

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                      • dave
                        hi has anyone read this site good read http://msdn.microsoft.com/ie/releasenotes/default.aspx THANKYOU DAVE M ... From: loro
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 2, 2006
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                          hi
                          has anyone read this site good read
                          http://msdn.microsoft.com/ie/releasenotes/default.aspx
                          THANKYOU DAVE M

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "loro" <loro-spam01-@...>
                          To: <ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:39 PM
                          Subject: Re: [NTO] IE7 Beta2 public release


                          > Don wrote:
                          >>I am wondering from what my client said if in fact they fixed the broken
                          >>box model so that the same code will work on it as already works on
                          >>Firefox. What are you figuring out?
                          >
                          > Don, they fixed that four or five years ago already. Just go ahead and use
                          > it.
                          >
                          > Lotta
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • sisterscape
                          Here s another thought. Browser have different default margins and padding for elements. It s a good idea to set everythign to 0 in your stylesheet like
                          Message 12 of 15 , Feb 2, 2006
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                            Here's another thought. Browser have different default margins and
                            padding for elements. It's a good idea to set everythign to 0 in
                            your stylesheet like this:

                            * {


                            }
                            > --- "Don - htmlfixit.com" <don@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > loro wrote:
                            > > > Don wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > >>I am wondering from what my client said if in fact they fixed
                            the
                            > > broken
                            > > >>box model so that the same code will work on it as already
                            works on
                            > >
                            > > >>Firefox. What are you figuring out?
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Don, they fixed that four or five years ago already. Just go
                            ahead
                            > > and use it.
                            > > >
                            > > > Lotta
                            > > >
                            > > Lotta, you are much smarter than me on such issues as CSS (or
                            more
                            > > learned is a better term perhaps). I still find that when I
                            create
                            > > menus for example in css that I need to change the dimensions in
                            IE
                            > > vs
                            > > Firefox to get it to work properly. I call this the broken box
                            model
                            > >
                            > > because I continue to think it is becuase the padding/margin/div
                            size
                            > >
                            > > aren't treated the same in opera/firefox vs ie. Perhaps I am
                            wrong,
                            > > but
                            > > I definately have to feed diff. widths to IE for it to work
                            right.
                            > > All
                            > > insight appreciated or wise woman :-)
                            > >
                            > > Don
                            > >
                            >
                            > __________________________________________________
                            > Do You Yahoo!?
                            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                            > http://mail.yahoo.com
                            >
                          • sisterscape
                            Here s another thought. Browser have different default margins and padding for elements. It s a good idea to set everythign to 0 in your stylesheet like
                            Message 13 of 15 , Feb 2, 2006
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                              Here's another thought. Browser have different default margins and
                              padding for elements. It's a good idea to set everythign to 0 in
                              your stylesheet like this:

                              * {


                              }
                              > --- "Don - htmlfixit.com" <don@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > loro wrote:
                              > > > Don wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >>I am wondering from what my client said if in fact they fixed
                              the
                              > > broken
                              > > >>box model so that the same code will work on it as already
                              works on
                              > >
                              > > >>Firefox. What are you figuring out?
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Don, they fixed that four or five years ago already. Just go
                              ahead
                              > > and use it.
                              > > >
                              > > > Lotta
                              > > >
                              > > Lotta, you are much smarter than me on such issues as CSS (or
                              more
                              > > learned is a better term perhaps). I still find that when I
                              create
                              > > menus for example in css that I need to change the dimensions in
                              IE
                              > > vs
                              > > Firefox to get it to work properly. I call this the broken box
                              model
                              > >
                              > > because I continue to think it is becuase the padding/margin/div
                              size
                              > >
                              > > aren't treated the same in opera/firefox vs ie. Perhaps I am
                              wrong,
                              > > but
                              > > I definately have to feed diff. widths to IE for it to work
                              right.
                              > > All
                              > > insight appreciated or wise woman :-)
                              > >
                              > > Don
                              > >
                              >
                              > __________________________________________________
                              > Do You Yahoo!?
                              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              > http://mail.yahoo.com
                              >
                            • sisterscape
                              Ignore the last post. It was sent accidently. Here it is again and complete this time . . . hopefully. Here s another thought. Browsers have different
                              Message 14 of 15 , Feb 2, 2006
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                                Ignore the last post. It was sent accidently. Here it is again and
                                complete this time . . . hopefully.

                                Here's another thought. Browsers have different default margins and
                                padding for elements. It's a good idea to set everything to 0 in
                                your stylesheet like this:

                                * {
                                padding: 0 ;
                                margin: 0 ;
                                }

                                I always put that right after the body styles.

                                sisterscape

                                > > --- "Don - htmlfixit.com" <don@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > Lotta, you are much smarter than me on such issues as CSS (or
                                > more
                                > > > learned is a better term perhaps). I still find that when I
                                > create
                                > > > menus for example in css that I need to change the dimensions
                                in
                                > IE
                                > > > vs
                                > > > Firefox to get it to work properly. I call this the broken box
                                > model
                                > > >
                                > > > because I continue to think it is becuase the
                                padding/margin/div
                                > size
                                > > >
                                > > > aren't treated the same in opera/firefox vs ie. Perhaps I am
                                > wrong,
                                > > > but
                                > > > I definately have to feed diff. widths to IE for it to work
                                > right.
                                > > > All
                                > > > insight appreciated or wise woman :-)
                                > > >
                                > > > Don
                                > > >
                                > >
                              • sisterscape
                                I ve decided that I m going to wait a bit before starting to rewrite code because there are so many bugs in it right now. When things get more sorted out some
                                Message 15 of 15 , Feb 2, 2006
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                                  I've decided that I'm going to wait a bit before starting to rewrite
                                  code because there are so many bugs in it right now. When things get
                                  more sorted out some months down the line, I'll probably try to do a
                                  side-by-side version to begin testing. I suspect the final release
                                  won't be till the end of the year at the earliest. Since IE7
                                  currently breaks Juno, I can't overwrite IE6 in any case.

                                  On the MSDN blog it seems there are still some problems with
                                  margins/padding under certain circumstances. Hopefully that will get
                                  fixed. I usually avoid the box model problem by adding a separate
                                  div for padding rather than including it with the parent element.
                                  Those extra divs have saved BIG headaches.

                                  --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, "Don - htmlfixit.com" <don@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Sister,
                                  >
                                  > I knew what you were talking about ... that "get a browser" was
                                  said
                                  > tongue in cheek in jest.
                                  > Humor sometimes misses the mark in email and perhaps I didn't get
                                  the
                                  > punchline correct.
                                  >
                                  > I had this very conversation with a client today:
                                  > Why code for seven when nobody has it yet? ... Because every new
                                  > computer will have it in about 3 months ... so why have to fix
                                  pages
                                  > later? Oh. End of conversation. I went to download it and realize
                                  my
                                  > main two computers won't run it ... Win NT and Win 2000. But I am
                                  > slowly equipping a new laptop, so I'll run it on that. I am
                                  wondering
                                  > from what my client said if in fact they fixed the broken box model
                                  so
                                  > that the same code will work on it as already works on Firefox.
                                  What
                                  > are you figuring out?
                                  >
                                  > Sorry if I caused confusion.
                                  >
                                  > Don
                                  >
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