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Re: [NTO] version five

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  • Jody
    Hi Don, ... I understand! I ll let him know and perhaps he can copy other lists - it s always his call. I will let you know right off the bat though that Eric
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 5, 2006
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      Hi Don,

      >Hi Group and Eric,

      >Jody, I would appreciate hearing from Eric himself on this.

      I understand! I'll let him know and perhaps he can copy other
      lists - it's always his call.

      I will let you know right off the bat though that Eric won't do
      any syntax highlighting with the current input controls used -
      unless he has a drastic change of mind. He states that it would
      be way too much time spent on something that could *not* be used
      again when the input control changes. Also, it would not really
      be technically feasible with the current input control due to
      bloat. There's other reasons too I'm sure.

      There are a number of things that certain "groups" of people
      want. You want the syntax highlighting in one group of users, but
      in another group, they do no want syntax highlighting at all, but
      want say, the tree-view outlines. Tree-view outlines is about the
      only big feature that would be pretty much independent of input
      control meaning a total rewrite. Others don't want change (there
      are quite a few in that group and yet others, only want Clip Code
      to be done). The same goes with block features, and so on.

      >He used to be active in these groups and I haven't seen a message
      >from him in ages.

      You do not have to sign up for it, but look at the messages at
      of the Aid4Mail list. Eric is the number one poster on it.

      Aid4Mail; Converts and Archives eMail; over 20 formats supported in
      whole or in part. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Aid4Mail/messages

      Aid4Mail Home Page
      http://www.aid4mail.com/
      Jody's Aid4Mail US Affiliate Site ;) (Some tutorials coming :-)
      http://www.fookes.us/aid4mail

      >I don't have his personal email, but as a loyal user and
      >promoter, at some point shouldn't we have some expectation that
      >milestone dates will be set?

      We will not use dates anymore. We, with all the best and sincere
      mind/hearts, etc. have given approximate date range of test
      starting, upgrade dates, new rewriting the whole program dates,
      etc. and we have never met such a date. Eric and I very
      truthfully have given dates in the past as far as us really
      believing that it would come to pass, but alas to no avail.

      >Don Passenger
      >Loyal User of version 4.forever.

      That you definitely are! You have been one of the top all time
      helpers (like one of the "Best of the Best") on the various lists
      and I personally thank you for that! (FWIW, that is). You follow
      the guidelines very well too which I very, very, very much
      appreciate, because high volume posters normally set examples on
      lists/teach others how to behave <g> and so on. You are one of
      the ones (which there are a lot of) that helps keep the lists in
      a friendly comfortable atmosphere which to me is extremely
      important! Just wanted to say THANKS! :)

      My online FAQ for NoteTab. It probably needs to be updated on the
      release issue. I'll wait until we hear from Eric... hopefully.
      http://www.notetab.net/faq/ntb


      Happy Topics,
      Jody

      The NoteTab Off-Topic List
      mailto:ntb-OffTopic-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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      All Fookes Software mailing lists and more...
      http://www.fookes.us/maillist.htm
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    • Greg Chapman
      Hi Jody, I know there s an EXTREME risk of Don having started a me too thread with this thread, and I m about to join it.... ... Me too! ... Me too! (The
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 6, 2006
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        Hi Jody,

        I know there's an EXTREME risk of Don having started a "me too" thread with
        this thread, and I'm about to join it....

        > You want the syntax highlighting

        Me too!

        > tree-view outlines

        Me too!

        (The other bits are less important to me, but I recognise may be the core
        reason for using NoteTab for others)

        The point is that when I first started with Mini Note Tab under Win3.x the
        product was being constantly updated and improved. Now it has been allowed
        to stagnate. There are now many editors which offer customisable syntax
        highlighting, and some which offer tree-view notes. We regularly see
        concerns about NoteTab regex issues and I know that clip programming remains
        a major attraction of NoteTab for many.

        My fear is that unless Eric turns his attention to updating what has been
        his core product he may lose some of his reputation as one of the finest
        one-man software developers around.

        Currently, NoteTab continues to meet my needs - although I keep coming close
        to moving to TopStyle for my web development work (and that is the bulk of
        my use of NoteTab). Once I saw NoteTab being recommended to others
        regularly. I no longer see that. And that is a worry!

        Greg
      • LaurieK
        Ok, Don, Greg... about Syntax Highlighting.... I do not use this feature (I ve needed it maybe once or twice) but its not something that I need on a regular
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 6, 2006
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          Ok, Don, Greg... about Syntax Highlighting....

          I do not use this feature (I've needed it maybe once or twice) but its not
          something that I "need" on a regular basis. Syntax Highting is one of the
          marvelous advantages to use what I consider MY BRAIN. I am a very LOYAL NTB
          user, do not get me wrong, I cannot survive w/o it and my major desire, as
          most will know, is the Tree-View Outlines.

          Now, as for your wants/desires and what you may not know. I was introduced
          to Outlines via NTB and well, its been a godsend... however, for me its
          difficult to manipulate when it comes to opening them, someome wrote a clip,
          whether it was something that was already out there or if they wrote it for
          me (I'm not a programmer / program writer / clip writer) which eased that
          task dramatically so that helps.

          HOWEVER... you may wish to check out a program called Insight. It not a
          substitute for NTB, its more of a robust Outline handling program with SO
          MUCH MORE.... www.dataomega.com check it out.

          It was written as a great tool for handling what are referred to as "CAT"
          files, basically OTL files with a "cat" extension in simple
          non-programmer-lay-woman terms.... this program is my BRAIN, I swear it is.
          It has syntax highlighting, it has the ability to highlight / alternate font
          / bold / italic data, it has an awesome "project" or "Favorites" feature.
          I understand that NTB has (I forget what its called) but clipboard copy/save
          feature. Insight's name is "Snatcher" and its just kick butt.... I can't
          tell you enough great things about this program and STRONGLY recommend folks
          check it out.

          I am in no way trying to step on Eric's toes with this... I am a loyal
          registered user of NTB, and Aid4Mail, I love Eric's work, but RS and what
          he'd done with Insight stands on its own. Its not really so much an
          enhancement to NTB because calling it an enhancement would belittle it a
          bit, or make it it sound as though it is not stand alone or not capable of
          standing on its own merits... TRUST ME, its very worthy of consideration and
          adding to your list of applications that you just cannot function without.

          I would gush more about it but I have to leave for work... check out the
          info on dataomega.com Insight... its worth every consideration, its worth
          putting on the same stage with NTB, as sister/brother/cousin programs
          however you personally wish to categorize it, just know that this may be the
          answer to some of the concerns that folks are having with the wait for NTB
          5.x or whatever it may be named whenever it is released.

          I will maintain use of both, there are just some things that pulling NTB out
          for is something that I would not consider using anything else for but when
          it comes to my data handling, I use Insight E V E R Y D A Y in my work
          environment, yes I work for a major company and they even purchased licenses
          for me and my team because of its merits and benefits to the types of data
          handling we must do on a daily basis... I was able to show them the merits
          and they agreed.. I talked a MAJOR CORPORATION into the benefits of this...
          to me that's pretty big!!!

          I compromise at work and use NTB Lite... which has its limitations compared
          to being a PRO user but because of the length of time its taken for us to
          see marked development on NTB, I hesitate 'talking them into' this at the
          current time.

          Anyway, my 2 cents worth.

          My major disclaimer here is the fact that I am not in any way attempting to
          stear folks away from NTB, quite the contrary, all of us long time users
          need a break... there are just somethings that can't wait so if you want
          something which will only benefit you and add to your potential, give it a
          look-see. Let me know what you think, I'd be totally interested because I
          am such a fan. (you can email me privately if you'd rather) but I'd really
          love to know.

          I LOVE NTB, and Eric and I LOVE INSIGHT and RS.... and RS is very good, not
          unlike Eric... about listening, if there is a feature you would like to see,
          RS too, will weigh the pros and cons and feasibility and if its something
          that can be done, it gets done.

          I hope you get this, Jody, Eric... I appreciate all that you do for us...
          but this is truly as worthy an application as Fookes software is....

          Your ever faithful (sometimes demanding and well, I'm sorry) user :)

          Laurie
          (oops I'm gonna be late... bye)

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Greg Chapman" >
          > I know there's an EXTREME risk of Don having started a "me too" thread
          > with
          > this thread, and I'm about to join it....
          >
          >> You want the syntax highlighting
          >
          > Me too!
          >
          >> tree-view outlines
          >
          > Me too!
          >
          > (The other bits are less important to me, but I recognise may be the core
          > reason for using NoteTab for others)
        • loro
          ... Me too! ... Me not! Boy, I hate those zip folders so much! Am I alone in this? Probably am. Since we are dreaming anyway, I d like multiple panes . I
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 6, 2006
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            Greg Chapman wrote:
            > > You want the syntax highlighting
            >
            >Me too!

            Me too!

            > > tree-view outlines
            >
            >Me too!

            Me not! Boy, I hate those "zip folders" so much! Am I alone in this?
            Probably am. Since we are dreaming anyway, I'd like "multiple panes". I
            know this won't happen, but as said, I'm dreaming. What I dislike about
            tree-view, in addition to the clicking-clicking-clicking, is that once
            you've opened a node its content obscures the parent list of topics. The
            way my memory works I need to see as much of topics/subtopics as possible.
            I often remember if what I look for is high up, in the middle or low down,
            but not necessarily exactly under which topic I put it. Not until I see it.

            I mean like this.
            <http://www.urlorg.com/images/screen_maxi.gif>
            Select a topic in the left window. Related sub-topics appear in the middle
            window. Select one of those and sub-sub-topics appear in the right window.
            One can scroll through the topic lists fast. That makes it possible to
            review all sub-topics at a glance, and so on and so on. Oh well.

            Lotta
          • Greg Chapman
            ... There shouldn t be any clickedy-clicking. We re talking a text editor, so it s all done on the keyboard - just like HTMLHelp Contents or My Computer s
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 6, 2006
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              > > > tree-view outlines
              > >
              > >Me too!
              >
              > Me not!

              > What I dislike about
              > tree-view, in addition to the clicking-clicking-clicking,

              There shouldn't be any clickedy-clicking. We're talking a text editor, so
              it's all done on the keyboard - just like HTMLHelp Contents or My Computer's
              Files Explorer Bar - using just the cursor keys, CR and Backspace. (And in
              TreePad it's just TAB/CTRL-TAB to move between the topic list and edit pane)
              Couldn't be simpler and totally following Windows conventions!

              > you've opened a node its content obscures the parent list of topics.

              So instead you use a conventional window, page down, and you're in the same
              position - but without the treeview of topics so you can navigate back real
              fast!

              > I mean like this.
              > <http://www.urlorg.com/images/screen_maxi.gif>

              OK! I accept that I don't produce documents that are such a complete
              hotch-potch that I need such extreme sub-division, but I guess that anyone
              who does, would easily lose their stuff anyway!

              What I see in TreePad or WORD's Document Map facilities, which I use while
              NoteTab lacks such facilities, is good enough for me! Roll on "folding" as
              well, as another way of hiding text between headings in a long document!

              Greg
            • loro
              ... Same thing. Explorer is highly annoying. Only use it in folder view. That s what made me hate it. Or what about Regedit? Jesus! ... But I don t see the
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 6, 2006
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                Greg Chapman wrote:
                >There shouldn't be any clickedy-clicking. We're talking a text editor, so
                >it's all done on the keyboard - just like HTMLHelp Contents or My Computer's
                >Files Explorer Bar - using just the cursor keys, CR and Backspace.

                Same thing. Explorer is highly annoying. Only use it in folder view. That's
                what made me hate it. Or what about Regedit? Jesus!

                >So instead you use a conventional window, page down, and you're in the same
                >position - but without the treeview of topics so you can navigate back real
                >fast!

                But I don't see the topics and sub topics at the same time, once the sub
                topics get too many. A screen can only take so much in one dimension. :-P

                > > I mean like this.
                > > <http://www.urlorg.com/images/screen_maxi.gif>
                >
                >OK! I accept that I don't produce documents that are such a complete
                >hotch-potch that I need such extreme sub-division, but I guess that anyone
                >who does, would easily lose their stuff anyway!

                LOL Neither do I. It's a bookmark file loaded in the picture. It isn't
                mine, I should add. But I do use URL Organizer as an extra layer for both
                OTLs and text files. The downside is the UO's panes can't be dragged
                totally closed, because of the buttons at the bottom. If they could, it
                would be an almost perfect setup for me.
                It can be made to show only the third pane though. In my case those topics
                would open different OTLs or text files. Or programs or anything else for
                that matter.
                <http://www.bookmarkbuddy.net/images/screen_mini.gif>

                An add-on "table of contents" utility isn't a totally bad idea, actually.
                Maybe that's what I want. Oh, I also wish the headings could be sorted in
                descending order. That's about it for me, I think. Syntax highlighting,
                folding, better split window, better outline sorting (with groups!) and
                panes. Oh, Unicode too. Not necessary for me, but I think it is for many
                people. Thank you for listening, Santa! :-)

                Lotta
              • John Mitchell
                Saturday, January 7, 2006, 7:15:02 AM, loro wrote: snip... ... snip... I d never heard of URL Organizer before so thanks for the pointer. It already looks like
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 7, 2006
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                  Saturday, January 7, 2006, 7:15:02 AM, loro wrote:
                  snip...
                  > I mean like this.
                  > <http://www.urlorg.com/images/screen_maxi.gif>
                  snip...

                  I'd never heard of URL Organizer before so thanks for the pointer. It
                  already looks like becoming a permanent addition to the "must have"
                  list and del.icio.ous will rapidly become redundant. Now of course
                  I'll have to check out Bookmark Buddy as well to determine the
                  required level of investment!
                  --
                  Regards, John M
                • Subscriber
                  Dear All, ... One more reason to re-launch work on Golden version five is the end of the development of KeyNote. Its users may want to gradually move to
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 7, 2006
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                    Dear All,

                    > Hi Group and Eric,

                    > For about four years now it has been coming SOON ....
                    > http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fgroups.yahoo.com+notetab+notetab+v5


                    One more reason to re-launch work on "Golden" version five is the end of
                    the development of KeyNote. Its users may want to gradually move to another
                    program of this kind and IF NoteTab has multilevel outlining future
                    and reach text formatting, this could be their choice.

                    NB. It should not be too difficult to implement both, cf. Insight
                    http://www.dataomega.com/insight/index.htm
                    that reads NoteTab otl files.

                    With best New Year wishes to all NoteTabbers,

                    Wojciech
                  • loro
                    ... That s nice. I guess I m not alone in liking this approach after all then. :-) ... Yes, do. It didn t offer enough improvements to warrant an upgrade for
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jan 7, 2006
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                      John Mitchell wrote:
                      >I'd never heard of URL Organizer before so thanks for the pointer. It
                      >already looks like becoming a permanent addition to the "must have"
                      >list and del.icio.ous will rapidly become redundant.

                      That's nice. I guess I'm not alone in liking this approach after all then. :-)

                      >Now of course
                      >I'll have to check out Bookmark Buddy as well to determine the
                      >required level of investment!

                      Yes, do. It didn't offer enough improvements to warrant an upgrade for me.
                      IIRC it has better search and some kind of rating system (wouldn't bother
                      with rating anyway). It's also a little bigger. URL Org is very tiny. URL
                      Org also has some problems with one of my browsers. That could be fixed in
                      Buddy.
                      I think you'll like that the bookmark files are plain text files, easy to
                      edit and split in several when the need arises. The only complaints I've
                      had are that the text size can't be changed (maybe it can in Buddy) and
                      that it would be helpful if the lists had alternate row colors.

                      There's also an old version distributed as freeware. Less advanced of
                      course, but it probably works as well as a "table of contents" add-on as
                      the others.
                      <http://www.urlorg.com/freeware/index.html>

                      Lotta
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