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version five

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  • Don - htmlfixit.com
    Hi Group and Eric, For about four years now it has been coming SOON .... http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fgroups.yahoo.com+notetab+notetab+v5
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 4, 2006
      Hi Group and Eric,

      For about four years now it has been coming SOON ....
      http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fgroups.yahoo.com+notetab+notetab+v5

      I love notetab, but I would really like to see custom syntax
      highlighting. When I first started using notetab, it was updated
      regularly. Now we have been stable (thank you!) but not advancing for a
      really long time.

      I suspect this will not occur unless Eric desides to set some goals and
      benchmarks. If there are only 1,000 users willing to pay $30 for a new
      copy, that is $30,000. I also suspect that a lot of new users are not
      coming because of the lack of syntax highlighting. Many other editors
      have great and even customizable syntax highlighting, code folding, etc.
      The power of notetab (clips) isn't usually the reason people come to
      notetab, it is the reason so many of us stay once we happen on to it and
      catch on. Remember the first suggestion that you go to the clips list
      for help? Remember how lost you are reading that list the first few
      times you got those emails?

      Maybe the answer isn't a version five if it is going to be another
      year. If there is syntax highlighting for html, how about syntax
      highlighting in a version of 4.x perhaps with a minor upgrade fee to
      current users.

      Jody, I would appreciate hearing from Eric himself on this. He used to
      be active in these groups and I haven't seen a message from him in ages.
      I don't have his personal email, but as a loyal user and promoter, at
      some point shouldn't we have some expectation that milestone dates will
      be set?

      Don Passenger
      Loyal User of version 4.forever.
    • Jody
      Hi Don, ... I understand! I ll let him know and perhaps he can copy other lists - it s always his call. I will let you know right off the bat though that Eric
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 5, 2006
        Hi Don,

        >Hi Group and Eric,

        >Jody, I would appreciate hearing from Eric himself on this.

        I understand! I'll let him know and perhaps he can copy other
        lists - it's always his call.

        I will let you know right off the bat though that Eric won't do
        any syntax highlighting with the current input controls used -
        unless he has a drastic change of mind. He states that it would
        be way too much time spent on something that could *not* be used
        again when the input control changes. Also, it would not really
        be technically feasible with the current input control due to
        bloat. There's other reasons too I'm sure.

        There are a number of things that certain "groups" of people
        want. You want the syntax highlighting in one group of users, but
        in another group, they do no want syntax highlighting at all, but
        want say, the tree-view outlines. Tree-view outlines is about the
        only big feature that would be pretty much independent of input
        control meaning a total rewrite. Others don't want change (there
        are quite a few in that group and yet others, only want Clip Code
        to be done). The same goes with block features, and so on.

        >He used to be active in these groups and I haven't seen a message
        >from him in ages.

        You do not have to sign up for it, but look at the messages at
        of the Aid4Mail list. Eric is the number one poster on it.

        Aid4Mail; Converts and Archives eMail; over 20 formats supported in
        whole or in part. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Aid4Mail/messages

        Aid4Mail Home Page
        http://www.aid4mail.com/
        Jody's Aid4Mail US Affiliate Site ;) (Some tutorials coming :-)
        http://www.fookes.us/aid4mail

        >I don't have his personal email, but as a loyal user and
        >promoter, at some point shouldn't we have some expectation that
        >milestone dates will be set?

        We will not use dates anymore. We, with all the best and sincere
        mind/hearts, etc. have given approximate date range of test
        starting, upgrade dates, new rewriting the whole program dates,
        etc. and we have never met such a date. Eric and I very
        truthfully have given dates in the past as far as us really
        believing that it would come to pass, but alas to no avail.

        >Don Passenger
        >Loyal User of version 4.forever.

        That you definitely are! You have been one of the top all time
        helpers (like one of the "Best of the Best") on the various lists
        and I personally thank you for that! (FWIW, that is). You follow
        the guidelines very well too which I very, very, very much
        appreciate, because high volume posters normally set examples on
        lists/teach others how to behave <g> and so on. You are one of
        the ones (which there are a lot of) that helps keep the lists in
        a friendly comfortable atmosphere which to me is extremely
        important! Just wanted to say THANKS! :)

        My online FAQ for NoteTab. It probably needs to be updated on the
        release issue. I'll wait until we hear from Eric... hopefully.
        http://www.notetab.net/faq/ntb


        Happy Topics,
        Jody

        The NoteTab Off-Topic List
        mailto:ntb-OffTopic-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        mailto:ntb-OffTopic-UnSubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        All Fookes Software mailing lists and more...
        http://www.fookes.us/maillist.htm
        http://www.fookes.us/redir http://www.clean-funnies.com/
        http://www.notetab.net/ http://www.sojourner.us/software
      • Greg Chapman
        Hi Jody, I know there s an EXTREME risk of Don having started a me too thread with this thread, and I m about to join it.... ... Me too! ... Me too! (The
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 6, 2006
          Hi Jody,

          I know there's an EXTREME risk of Don having started a "me too" thread with
          this thread, and I'm about to join it....

          > You want the syntax highlighting

          Me too!

          > tree-view outlines

          Me too!

          (The other bits are less important to me, but I recognise may be the core
          reason for using NoteTab for others)

          The point is that when I first started with Mini Note Tab under Win3.x the
          product was being constantly updated and improved. Now it has been allowed
          to stagnate. There are now many editors which offer customisable syntax
          highlighting, and some which offer tree-view notes. We regularly see
          concerns about NoteTab regex issues and I know that clip programming remains
          a major attraction of NoteTab for many.

          My fear is that unless Eric turns his attention to updating what has been
          his core product he may lose some of his reputation as one of the finest
          one-man software developers around.

          Currently, NoteTab continues to meet my needs - although I keep coming close
          to moving to TopStyle for my web development work (and that is the bulk of
          my use of NoteTab). Once I saw NoteTab being recommended to others
          regularly. I no longer see that. And that is a worry!

          Greg
        • LaurieK
          Ok, Don, Greg... about Syntax Highlighting.... I do not use this feature (I ve needed it maybe once or twice) but its not something that I need on a regular
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 6, 2006
            Ok, Don, Greg... about Syntax Highlighting....

            I do not use this feature (I've needed it maybe once or twice) but its not
            something that I "need" on a regular basis. Syntax Highting is one of the
            marvelous advantages to use what I consider MY BRAIN. I am a very LOYAL NTB
            user, do not get me wrong, I cannot survive w/o it and my major desire, as
            most will know, is the Tree-View Outlines.

            Now, as for your wants/desires and what you may not know. I was introduced
            to Outlines via NTB and well, its been a godsend... however, for me its
            difficult to manipulate when it comes to opening them, someome wrote a clip,
            whether it was something that was already out there or if they wrote it for
            me (I'm not a programmer / program writer / clip writer) which eased that
            task dramatically so that helps.

            HOWEVER... you may wish to check out a program called Insight. It not a
            substitute for NTB, its more of a robust Outline handling program with SO
            MUCH MORE.... www.dataomega.com check it out.

            It was written as a great tool for handling what are referred to as "CAT"
            files, basically OTL files with a "cat" extension in simple
            non-programmer-lay-woman terms.... this program is my BRAIN, I swear it is.
            It has syntax highlighting, it has the ability to highlight / alternate font
            / bold / italic data, it has an awesome "project" or "Favorites" feature.
            I understand that NTB has (I forget what its called) but clipboard copy/save
            feature. Insight's name is "Snatcher" and its just kick butt.... I can't
            tell you enough great things about this program and STRONGLY recommend folks
            check it out.

            I am in no way trying to step on Eric's toes with this... I am a loyal
            registered user of NTB, and Aid4Mail, I love Eric's work, but RS and what
            he'd done with Insight stands on its own. Its not really so much an
            enhancement to NTB because calling it an enhancement would belittle it a
            bit, or make it it sound as though it is not stand alone or not capable of
            standing on its own merits... TRUST ME, its very worthy of consideration and
            adding to your list of applications that you just cannot function without.

            I would gush more about it but I have to leave for work... check out the
            info on dataomega.com Insight... its worth every consideration, its worth
            putting on the same stage with NTB, as sister/brother/cousin programs
            however you personally wish to categorize it, just know that this may be the
            answer to some of the concerns that folks are having with the wait for NTB
            5.x or whatever it may be named whenever it is released.

            I will maintain use of both, there are just some things that pulling NTB out
            for is something that I would not consider using anything else for but when
            it comes to my data handling, I use Insight E V E R Y D A Y in my work
            environment, yes I work for a major company and they even purchased licenses
            for me and my team because of its merits and benefits to the types of data
            handling we must do on a daily basis... I was able to show them the merits
            and they agreed.. I talked a MAJOR CORPORATION into the benefits of this...
            to me that's pretty big!!!

            I compromise at work and use NTB Lite... which has its limitations compared
            to being a PRO user but because of the length of time its taken for us to
            see marked development on NTB, I hesitate 'talking them into' this at the
            current time.

            Anyway, my 2 cents worth.

            My major disclaimer here is the fact that I am not in any way attempting to
            stear folks away from NTB, quite the contrary, all of us long time users
            need a break... there are just somethings that can't wait so if you want
            something which will only benefit you and add to your potential, give it a
            look-see. Let me know what you think, I'd be totally interested because I
            am such a fan. (you can email me privately if you'd rather) but I'd really
            love to know.

            I LOVE NTB, and Eric and I LOVE INSIGHT and RS.... and RS is very good, not
            unlike Eric... about listening, if there is a feature you would like to see,
            RS too, will weigh the pros and cons and feasibility and if its something
            that can be done, it gets done.

            I hope you get this, Jody, Eric... I appreciate all that you do for us...
            but this is truly as worthy an application as Fookes software is....

            Your ever faithful (sometimes demanding and well, I'm sorry) user :)

            Laurie
            (oops I'm gonna be late... bye)

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Greg Chapman" >
            > I know there's an EXTREME risk of Don having started a "me too" thread
            > with
            > this thread, and I'm about to join it....
            >
            >> You want the syntax highlighting
            >
            > Me too!
            >
            >> tree-view outlines
            >
            > Me too!
            >
            > (The other bits are less important to me, but I recognise may be the core
            > reason for using NoteTab for others)
          • loro
            ... Me too! ... Me not! Boy, I hate those zip folders so much! Am I alone in this? Probably am. Since we are dreaming anyway, I d like multiple panes . I
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 6, 2006
              Greg Chapman wrote:
              > > You want the syntax highlighting
              >
              >Me too!

              Me too!

              > > tree-view outlines
              >
              >Me too!

              Me not! Boy, I hate those "zip folders" so much! Am I alone in this?
              Probably am. Since we are dreaming anyway, I'd like "multiple panes". I
              know this won't happen, but as said, I'm dreaming. What I dislike about
              tree-view, in addition to the clicking-clicking-clicking, is that once
              you've opened a node its content obscures the parent list of topics. The
              way my memory works I need to see as much of topics/subtopics as possible.
              I often remember if what I look for is high up, in the middle or low down,
              but not necessarily exactly under which topic I put it. Not until I see it.

              I mean like this.
              <http://www.urlorg.com/images/screen_maxi.gif>
              Select a topic in the left window. Related sub-topics appear in the middle
              window. Select one of those and sub-sub-topics appear in the right window.
              One can scroll through the topic lists fast. That makes it possible to
              review all sub-topics at a glance, and so on and so on. Oh well.

              Lotta
            • Greg Chapman
              ... There shouldn t be any clickedy-clicking. We re talking a text editor, so it s all done on the keyboard - just like HTMLHelp Contents or My Computer s
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 6, 2006
                > > > tree-view outlines
                > >
                > >Me too!
                >
                > Me not!

                > What I dislike about
                > tree-view, in addition to the clicking-clicking-clicking,

                There shouldn't be any clickedy-clicking. We're talking a text editor, so
                it's all done on the keyboard - just like HTMLHelp Contents or My Computer's
                Files Explorer Bar - using just the cursor keys, CR and Backspace. (And in
                TreePad it's just TAB/CTRL-TAB to move between the topic list and edit pane)
                Couldn't be simpler and totally following Windows conventions!

                > you've opened a node its content obscures the parent list of topics.

                So instead you use a conventional window, page down, and you're in the same
                position - but without the treeview of topics so you can navigate back real
                fast!

                > I mean like this.
                > <http://www.urlorg.com/images/screen_maxi.gif>

                OK! I accept that I don't produce documents that are such a complete
                hotch-potch that I need such extreme sub-division, but I guess that anyone
                who does, would easily lose their stuff anyway!

                What I see in TreePad or WORD's Document Map facilities, which I use while
                NoteTab lacks such facilities, is good enough for me! Roll on "folding" as
                well, as another way of hiding text between headings in a long document!

                Greg
              • loro
                ... Same thing. Explorer is highly annoying. Only use it in folder view. That s what made me hate it. Or what about Regedit? Jesus! ... But I don t see the
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 6, 2006
                  Greg Chapman wrote:
                  >There shouldn't be any clickedy-clicking. We're talking a text editor, so
                  >it's all done on the keyboard - just like HTMLHelp Contents or My Computer's
                  >Files Explorer Bar - using just the cursor keys, CR and Backspace.

                  Same thing. Explorer is highly annoying. Only use it in folder view. That's
                  what made me hate it. Or what about Regedit? Jesus!

                  >So instead you use a conventional window, page down, and you're in the same
                  >position - but without the treeview of topics so you can navigate back real
                  >fast!

                  But I don't see the topics and sub topics at the same time, once the sub
                  topics get too many. A screen can only take so much in one dimension. :-P

                  > > I mean like this.
                  > > <http://www.urlorg.com/images/screen_maxi.gif>
                  >
                  >OK! I accept that I don't produce documents that are such a complete
                  >hotch-potch that I need such extreme sub-division, but I guess that anyone
                  >who does, would easily lose their stuff anyway!

                  LOL Neither do I. It's a bookmark file loaded in the picture. It isn't
                  mine, I should add. But I do use URL Organizer as an extra layer for both
                  OTLs and text files. The downside is the UO's panes can't be dragged
                  totally closed, because of the buttons at the bottom. If they could, it
                  would be an almost perfect setup for me.
                  It can be made to show only the third pane though. In my case those topics
                  would open different OTLs or text files. Or programs or anything else for
                  that matter.
                  <http://www.bookmarkbuddy.net/images/screen_mini.gif>

                  An add-on "table of contents" utility isn't a totally bad idea, actually.
                  Maybe that's what I want. Oh, I also wish the headings could be sorted in
                  descending order. That's about it for me, I think. Syntax highlighting,
                  folding, better split window, better outline sorting (with groups!) and
                  panes. Oh, Unicode too. Not necessary for me, but I think it is for many
                  people. Thank you for listening, Santa! :-)

                  Lotta
                • John Mitchell
                  Saturday, January 7, 2006, 7:15:02 AM, loro wrote: snip... ... snip... I d never heard of URL Organizer before so thanks for the pointer. It already looks like
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 7, 2006
                    Saturday, January 7, 2006, 7:15:02 AM, loro wrote:
                    snip...
                    > I mean like this.
                    > <http://www.urlorg.com/images/screen_maxi.gif>
                    snip...

                    I'd never heard of URL Organizer before so thanks for the pointer. It
                    already looks like becoming a permanent addition to the "must have"
                    list and del.icio.ous will rapidly become redundant. Now of course
                    I'll have to check out Bookmark Buddy as well to determine the
                    required level of investment!
                    --
                    Regards, John M
                  • Subscriber
                    Dear All, ... One more reason to re-launch work on Golden version five is the end of the development of KeyNote. Its users may want to gradually move to
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jan 7, 2006
                      Dear All,

                      > Hi Group and Eric,

                      > For about four years now it has been coming SOON ....
                      > http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fgroups.yahoo.com+notetab+notetab+v5


                      One more reason to re-launch work on "Golden" version five is the end of
                      the development of KeyNote. Its users may want to gradually move to another
                      program of this kind and IF NoteTab has multilevel outlining future
                      and reach text formatting, this could be their choice.

                      NB. It should not be too difficult to implement both, cf. Insight
                      http://www.dataomega.com/insight/index.htm
                      that reads NoteTab otl files.

                      With best New Year wishes to all NoteTabbers,

                      Wojciech
                    • loro
                      ... That s nice. I guess I m not alone in liking this approach after all then. :-) ... Yes, do. It didn t offer enough improvements to warrant an upgrade for
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jan 7, 2006
                        John Mitchell wrote:
                        >I'd never heard of URL Organizer before so thanks for the pointer. It
                        >already looks like becoming a permanent addition to the "must have"
                        >list and del.icio.ous will rapidly become redundant.

                        That's nice. I guess I'm not alone in liking this approach after all then. :-)

                        >Now of course
                        >I'll have to check out Bookmark Buddy as well to determine the
                        >required level of investment!

                        Yes, do. It didn't offer enough improvements to warrant an upgrade for me.
                        IIRC it has better search and some kind of rating system (wouldn't bother
                        with rating anyway). It's also a little bigger. URL Org is very tiny. URL
                        Org also has some problems with one of my browsers. That could be fixed in
                        Buddy.
                        I think you'll like that the bookmark files are plain text files, easy to
                        edit and split in several when the need arises. The only complaints I've
                        had are that the text size can't be changed (maybe it can in Buddy) and
                        that it would be helpful if the lists had alternate row colors.

                        There's also an old version distributed as freeware. Less advanced of
                        course, but it probably works as well as a "table of contents" add-on as
                        the others.
                        <http://www.urlorg.com/freeware/index.html>

                        Lotta
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