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Re: [NTO] IPTC Data - Photo Cataloguing (WAS: RE: [NTB] publishing pictures that are in over 30 folders?)

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  • prog@lomascentral.com
    Greg, I haven t sent this on the lists as it s even more off topic :-) I ve been musing about building myself a picture cataloger for some time (one of the
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 18, 2005
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      Greg,

      I haven't sent this on the lists as it's even more off topic :-)

      I've been musing about building myself a picture cataloger for some time
      (one of the many things that are wandering round the back of my brain
      to be done at some time).

      I haven't yet managed to figure out what I want which is one reason it's
      on the back burner :-)

      This has given a me a couple of ideas I may play with, the IPTC stuff
      may be useful.

      If you have 2 minute spare can you let me know what sort of thing you're
      looking for?

      No guarantee I'm actually going to write anything or that it'll be
      useful if I do. All I can guarantee is that if I do anything it'll be
      free and have an alternative to use Access as the database.

      Tim

      Greg Chapman wrote:
      > Hi Don,
      >
      >
      >>I have no idea what IPTC data is.
      >
      >
      > The International Press Telecommunications Council came up with a standard
      > which allowed press photographers to attach image information to jpg and
      > other files. Windows XP's Explorer will reveal a limited sub-set of all
      > possible fields when you right-click over a jpg file, select Properties and
      > then the Summary tab. The stuff in the Description and Origin sections are
      > from any IPTC data stored in the file.
      >
      > IrfanView, with the IPTC plug-in installed, provides an effective way to
      > read and write what I assume is the full facility. The fields include:
      >
      > Copyright
      > Caption
      > Caption writer
      > Headline
      > Special Instructions
      > Keywords
      > Category
      > Supplemental categories
      > Urgency (1=high 8=low)
      > Byline
      > Byline title
      > Credits
      > Source
      > Object name
      > Date created
      > City
      > Province/State
      > Country
      > Original transmission reference
      >
      > I've yet to start properly indexing my rapidly growing collection of
      > photographs, but hate the idea of using the bloatware "Album" programs that
      > so many vendors provide. These tend to concentrate on indexing for printing
      > or CD and web based albums (Unfortunately, even EasyImager is typical,
      > splattering data all over the place!). They all seem to use proprietary
      > database formats to store the image data and force you always to use their
      > program rather than Explorer if you do any simple file management - or you
      > corrupt the database.
      >
      > I like the idea of instead using IPTC data as it becomes part of the file so
      > you can move files around at whim. Although it does have one disadvantage.
      > You can't search a single database to find which CD the image you are
      > looking for might be on!
      >
      > I have found a small German-authored freeware package "Image Query"
      > (http://www.ArminHanisch.de) which does just what I want (and no more! :-).
      > It wraps a simple SQL style query system for searching all EXIF and IPTC
      > data in jpg files. However, it's still in a very crude early release form.
      > Has anyone else found something a little more developed that is both small
      > and free and does the same job?
      >
      > Greg
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Hugo Paulissen
      ... standard Jason, Don, Thank you for this information. I have left IrfanView as my favorite imageviewer a couple of months ago and see that XnView
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 18, 2005
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        --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Chapman" <greg@e...> wrote:
        > Hi Don,
        >
        > > I have no idea what IPTC data is.
        >
        > The International Press Telecommunications Council came up with a
        standard


        Jason, Don,

        Thank you for this information. I have left IrfanView as my favorite
        imageviewer a couple of months ago and see that XnView incorporates
        functions to show/edit IPTC and EXIF data. The thumbnail view also
        shows a small caption [EXIT][IPTC] underneath the image.

        I visited the IPTC website and downloaded their zip-package that
        includes specs and sample images... It appears that IPTC already is
        surpassed (XMP). Both standards seem to be set by/together with Adobe.

        If, indeed, you can get rid of a databasestructure and include
        descriptions in the files themselves, AND can search these
        descriptions, there is no need to use an image-cataloguing tool
        anymore.

        One of the first sites showing up after searching for [IPTC data
        search] brings up Kalimages... "captioning and searching digital
        images using IPTC/IIM standard".

        I'll look further into this and others...

        http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=iptc+data+search

        Hugo
      • Greg Chapman
        Hi Hugo, ... That s only true if you all your images are available to search and not on CD-Rs sitting on your bookshelf! But otherwise that was my conclusion
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 18, 2005
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          Hi Hugo,

          > If, indeed, you can get rid of a databasestructure and include
          > descriptions in the files themselves, AND can search these
          > descriptions, there is no need to use an image-cataloguing tool
          > anymore.

          That's only true if you all your images are available to search and not on
          CD-Rs sitting on your bookshelf!

          But otherwise that was my conclusion too! I use other tools for printing
          photographs and developing web and CD-based albums.

          Greg
        • John Zeman
          I hadn t checked this forum for a little while, I m glad I did today. I really do not have anything to add to this topic as I no longer have much use for JPGs
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 18, 2005
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            I hadn't checked this forum for a little while, I'm glad I did today. I really do not have anything to add to this topic as I no longer have much use for JPGs (other than as desktop wallpaper or for use in my web sites) except to suggest yet another possible alternative program for managing EXIF/IPTC data in images. A free program called Exifer that's available here:

            http://www.friedemann-schmidt.com/software/exifer/

            To be honest I have barely used Exifer because right after I found this utility I switched to taking all my photos in raw mode and Exifer does not support raw images.

            For anyone reading this who also takes photos in raw mode, if you haven't checked out the following free program for managing raw images, you might take a peek at it:

            http://www.pixmantec.com/index2.html

            The current version of RawShooter is free however a premium version is close to being released. I love the free version so much that I plan to pay for the premium version no matter what it costs.

            John
          • Don - htmlfixit.com
            ... I may not get it. What do you really want to do? Make an index of each folder showing what is in it, including this IPTC info? If a program like
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 18, 2005
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              John Zeman wrote:
              > I hadn't checked this forum for a little while, I'm glad I did today. I really do not have anything to add to this topic as I no longer have much use for JPGs (other than as desktop wallpaper or for use in my web sites) except to suggest yet another possible alternative program for managing EXIF/IPTC data in images. A free program called Exifer that's available here:
              >
              > http://www.friedemann-schmidt.com/software/exifer/
              >
              > To be honest I have barely used Exifer because right after I found this utility I switched to taking all my photos in raw mode and Exifer does not support raw images.
              >
              > For anyone reading this who also takes photos in raw mode, if you haven't checked out the following free program for managing raw images, you might take a peek at it:
              >
              > http://www.pixmantec.com/index2.html
              >
              > The current version of RawShooter is free however a premium version is close to being released. I love the free version so much that I plan to pay for the premium version no matter what it costs.
              >
              > John
              >
              I may not get it. What do you really want to do?
              Make an index of each folder showing what is in it, including this IPTC
              info? If a program like irfanview can show it via a plug in, you can
              probably retrieve it into notetab, do with it what you will and move on
              to the next image.
              Or do you want to make an index page that shows each image and actually
              lists the info below it?

              What is the goal?
            • John Zeman
              ... Sorry for the confusion Don. I meant to convey that I m very satisfied with my current method of cataloging, viewing, editing, and printing images. The
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 18, 2005
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                --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, "Don - htmlfixit.com" <don@h...> wrote:
                > John Zeman wrote:
                > > I hadn't checked this forum for a little while, I'm glad I did today. I really do not have anything to add to this topic as I no longer have much use for JPGs (other than as desktop wallpaper or for use in my web sites) except to suggest yet another possible alternative program for managing EXIF/IPTC data in images. A free program called Exifer that's available here:
                > >
                > > http://www.friedemann-schmidt.com/software/exifer/
                > >
                > > To be honest I have barely used Exifer because right after I found this utility I switched to taking all my photos in raw mode and Exifer does not support raw images.
                > >
                > > For anyone reading this who also takes photos in raw mode, if you haven't checked out the following free program for managing raw images, you might take a peek at it:
                > >
                > > http://www.pixmantec.com/index2.html
                > >
                > > The current version of RawShooter is free however a premium version is close to being released. I love the free version so much that I plan to pay for the premium version no matter what it costs.
                > >
                > > John
                > >
                > I may not get it. What do you really want to do?
                > Make an index of each folder showing what is in it, including this IPTC
                > info? If a program like irfanview can show it via a plug in, you can
                > probably retrieve it into notetab, do with it what you will and move on
                > to the next image.
                > Or do you want to make an index page that shows each image and actually
                > lists the info below it?
                >
                > What is the goal?


                Sorry for the confusion Don. I meant to convey that I'm very satisfied with my current method of cataloging, viewing, editing, and printing images. The only thing that needs improvement is the current RawShooter program only has basic EXIF support at the moment, but better EXIF support for it is coming soon.

                As far as storing general comments about each image (not IPTC), I use the Windows descript.ion file feature where a small text file in each directory holds comment information about any or every file in that directory. I can open and edit that descript.ion file in NoteTab or in any of many other different ways. My file manager (Directory Opus) shows those comments in a column right next to the file name making it easy to find any photo by description.

                RawShooter shows the raw images in thumbnail mode, intermediate mode, or full size, and it's exceptionally fast compared to IrfanView or any other raw converter I've seen. And that's just the start of what all it will do.

                All in all I've never been happier with my digital imaging in general, from the camera to the screen to the printer.

                John
              • Greg Chapman
                Hi Don, ... I have a growing collection of photographs that I store on a range of CDs. Each CD is reserved for a general topic. For example, I have one My
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 19, 2005
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                  Hi Don,

                  > What is the goal?

                  I have a growing collection of photographs that I store on a range of CDs.
                  Each CD is reserved for a general topic. For example, I have one "My
                  Village", "Boating" "Other SeaHawks" "My SeaHawk", "Friends" and "Family"

                  Inevitably, for example, my wife could turn up in the foreground or
                  background on masses of pictures on almost any of these CDs and one day I
                  might want to locate one of these, perhaps to settle an argument about
                  exactly when her hair turned grey! :-)

                  So I want to start listing some keywords to attach to every photograph I
                  take, not just recording the main subject, but anything of note in the
                  background or circumstances of its being taken.

                  Then I want a tool that can query this data and produce a set of thumbnails
                  of this images that match my search criteria.

                  Greg
                • Greg Chapman
                  Hi Jon, ... I wasn t aware that this was a Windows feature . I had only come across its use in connection with Eric s Easy Imager . Am I missing something?
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 19, 2005
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                    Hi Jon,

                    > As far as storing general comments about each image (not IPTC), I
                    > use the Windows descript.ion file feature where a small text file
                    > in each directory holds comment information about any or every
                    > file in that directory. I can open and edit that descript.ion
                    > file in NoteTab or in any of many other different ways.

                    I wasn't aware that this was a "Windows feature". I had only come across
                    its use in connection with Eric's "Easy Imager". Am I missing something?
                    Having said that I hate the approach which scatters description information
                    in every directory. It means you can't move files about without using the
                    program that keeps these files updated when you move files about.

                    Greg
                  • Greg Chapman
                    Hi John, ... Took a look at this page. It certainly looks as if Exifer is good at extracting and restoring EXIF/IPTC data and editing the existing data.
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 19, 2005
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                      Hi John,

                      > to suggest yet another
                      > possible alternative program for managing EXIF/IPTC data in
                      > images. A free program called Exifer that's available here:
                      >
                      > http://www.friedemann-schmidt.com/software/exifer/

                      Took a look at this page. It certainly looks as if Exifer is good at
                      extracting and restoring EXIF/IPTC data and editing the existing data.
                      However, it doesn't appear to offer the key part I'm interested in...
                      searching for files held on a disk which match that data.

                      It also seems to be a program that may have lost some of its raison d'etre.
                      Most modern image editing software does now seem to be aware of EXIF/IPTC
                      data. Perhaps this is why there's been no update since 2002?

                      Greg
                    • Hugo Paulissen
                      ... d etre. ... EXIF/IPTC ... Well Greg, I did try to find a program that matches your (and my) needs yesterday. It seems as if PixVue comes close. It can
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 19, 2005
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                        > extracting and restoring EXIF/IPTC data and editing the existing data.
                        > However, it doesn't appear to offer the key part I'm interested in...
                        > searching for files held on a disk which match that data.
                        >
                        > It also seems to be a program that may have lost some of its raison
                        d'etre.
                        > Most modern image editing software does now seem to be aware of
                        EXIF/IPTC
                        > data. Perhaps this is why there's been no update since 2002?
                        >

                        Well Greg,

                        I did try to find a program that matches your (and my) needs yesterday.
                        It seems as if PixVue comes close. It can create thumbnails locally (I
                        assume these include the metadata), so that you can search your local
                        collection. This requires that you first load all your CD's to PixVue
                        (I did a very quick scan of the app yesterday, you have to open it with
                        the context menu of pictures/folders, it is not regular exe).

                        Searching is done with the standard Windows file search (look for
                        *.jpg's containing the word "Julie" is possible). This implies that
                        other search tools can do the same job, I think...

                        http://www.pixvue.com

                        Hugo
                      • hsavage
                        ... Jon, Greg, I can t argue either way about the descript.ion file being a Windows feature , but, Xnview produces one also when files are edited and I
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 19, 2005
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                          Greg Chapman wrote:
                          > Hi Jon,
                          >
                          >> As far as storing general comments about each image (not IPTC), I
                          >> use the Windows descript.ion file feature where a small text file
                          >
                          > I wasn't aware that this was a "Windows feature". I had only come across
                          > its use in connection with Eric's "Easy Imager". Am I missing something?
                          >
                          > Greg

                          Jon, Greg,

                          I can't argue either way about the descript.ion file being a Windows
                          'feature', but, Xnview produces one also when files are edited and I
                          haven't found a way to turn it off yet.

                          ºvº
                          05.08.19
                          hrs > hsavage@...
                        • Greg Chapman
                          Hi Hugo, ... It s certainly worth a look - and in spite of my reservations about databases, required if you are going to keep records of files on removable
                          Message 12 of 15 , Aug 19, 2005
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                            Hi Hugo,

                            > I did try to find a program that matches your (and my) needs yesterday.
                            > It seems as if PixVue comes close.
                            >
                            > http://www.pixvue.com

                            It's certainly worth a look - and in spite of my reservations about
                            databases, required if you are going to keep records of files on removable
                            media, this one looks as if it does what it can to minimise the bloat.

                            It's three times bigger than Image Query, but offers a lot more. I'm not
                            sure that I need all those extra facilities, but I liked a lot of what the
                            author said on his "About" page so I've decided to download it and
                            investigate further.

                            Thanks for the pointer.

                            Greg Chapman
                            http://www.eastwalton.fsworld.co.uk
                            Images and Memories from a West Norfolk Village - a slowly growing site!
                          • John Zeman
                            ... across ... something? ... information ... using the ... Greg you have a valid point about moving files and their descriptions, without a program to manage
                            Message 13 of 15 , Aug 19, 2005
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                              --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Chapman" <greg@e...> wrote:

                              > I wasn't aware that this was a "Windows feature". I had only come
                              across
                              > its use in connection with Eric's "Easy Imager". Am I missing
                              something?
                              > Having said that I hate the approach which scatters description
                              information
                              > in every directory. It means you can't move files about without
                              using the
                              > program that keeps these files updated when you move files about.
                              >
                              > Greg


                              Greg you have a valid point about moving files and their
                              descriptions, without a program to manage those descriptions it
                              wouldn't be much use to me either. I use two programs (along with
                              NoteTab for manual editing) to manage my file descriptions. The 4NT
                              command shell which sets all the initial file descriptions of my
                              images to the date the photo was taken when it moves them from a
                              photo card to my computer. And Directory Opus, my primary GUI file
                              manager which automatically keeps the images (or any files)
                              synchronized with their descriptions no matter where I move them to.
                              Without those two programs, especially DOpus, the descript.ion
                              feature would have little value to me.

                              What I like about using descript.ion files for descriptions is the
                              fact that they're simple text files, not binary. The principle they
                              use is very simple, and below is a small sample of what their
                              contents can look like:

                              P8051495.jpg (2005-08-05) Falls Park in Sioux Falls
                              P5290982.jpg (2005-05-29) Scenic View near Newcastle

                              The first thing on each line in the file is the name of the file the
                              description is for, and that's followed by the actual description. I
                              can sort, edit add or delete descriptions with NoteTab if I want, and
                              sometimes I do, but mostly I use 4NT or Directory Opus for those jobs.

                              Also, I guess I shouldn't have said descript.ion is a Windows feature
                              for it really has nothing to do with Microsoft. It's just a standard
                              many software companies use to set/manage descriptions for files and
                              folders.

                              I'm not trying to talk anyone into using descript.ion descriptions,
                              only mentioning that they work very well for me.

                              John
                            • John Zeman
                              ... hrs as mentioned in my last post to Greg I wasn t accurate yesterday when I referred to descript.ion files as being a Windows feature. They re not
                              Message 14 of 15 , Aug 19, 2005
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                                --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, hsavage <hsavage@p...> wrote:

                                >
                                > I can't argue either way about the descript.ion file being a Windows
                                > 'feature', but, Xnview produces one also when files are edited and I
                                > haven't found a way to turn it off yet.
                                >
                                > ºvº
                                > 05.08.19
                                > hrs > hsavage@p...

                                hrs as mentioned in my last post to Greg I wasn't accurate yesterday when I referred to descript.ion files as being a Windows feature. They're not actually related to Windows so I apologize for the inaccuracy there.

                                I do not use Xnview so I can't say what it's doing with descriptions but you can delete all the descriptions by simply deleting the descript.ion file in the folder containing the images (or whatever files you are dealing with). If you do not see it then the decript.ion file may have its hidden attribute set.

                                John
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