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RE: [NTO] Are spam & popups the same?

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  • Dart Chris
    From a university piece on the subject: SPAM is named after the Monty Python comedy sketch about the canned meat product of the same name. Much of this mail is
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 15, 2004
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      From a university piece on the subject:

      SPAM is named after the Monty Python comedy sketch about the canned meat
      product of the same name. Much of this mail is offensive and most people
      want it stopped.

      Chris


      _____


      From: Jason Wellband [mailto:jwellband-lists@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 9:22 PM
      To: ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [NTO] Are spam & popups the same?


      : -----Original Message-----
      : From: Brian Binder [mailto:brian.binder@...]
      : Subject: Re: [NTO] Pop-Ups
      :
      : What are you talking about? Of course there is a difference
      : between the 2.
      :
      : "SPAM" (Solicitaion of Pornographic Advertising and Marketing) deals
      : with email in your inbox.

      Spam isn't an acronym. Keep in mind that when you capitalize it, you're
      referring to the meat product by Hormel[1]. The term for abuse of resources
      to promote advertising is "spam" (no caps unless it's grammatically
      correct).

      Second, spam in a general sense does *not* have to be email based. Spam can
      be posting ads to a newsgroups, sending a user ads over the Messenger
      service under 2k/XP, sending people ads over IM, etc...

      The key thing is spam is unsolicited. The terms UBE and UCE go hand in hand.
      But those two terms only refer to email spam, not IM spam, messenger popup
      spam, etc.

      Some people (on a list called SPAM-L[2]), think email spam is only a symptom
      of the problem. I agree to an extent. Once email spamming becomes too much
      trouble for the spammers, they'll move on to some other means of getting
      their ads in front of users.

      :
      : "Popups" are a result of going out on the Internet and having to deal
      : with excessive website advertisements or as a result of being infected
      : by numerous spyware programs.

      It definitely is a grey area. You asked for the content (whatever's on the
      web page) and you got a popup. Assuming the website designers included that
      popup, it'd be analogous to you conversing with someone over email and them
      sending you an ad you didn't want. If it's because you have spyware/adware
      on your computer, then all bets are off since it's not that website's fault
      you got an ad.

      : I'll be more than happy to show you that there are numerous
      : differences between the 2. I can't believe that you would go as far
      : as to say that you don't think anyone can prove there is a difference
      : between the 2. If there wasn't a difference, then why don't I just go
      : out and download "Free Surfer" popup stopper for SPAM protection?

      As above, email isn't the only way to spam people.

      : Regarding this comment "I still believe no
      : one can prove there is a diff. between the 2!"... Start a new thread
      : and I'll be happy to prove it to you.

      Done altho I'm not the OP :)

      Hth, hanw, ymmv, imho..

      Jason

      [1] http://www.cybernothing.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq.html#2.1
      <http://www.cybernothing.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq.html#2.1>

      [2] http://www.claws-and-paws.com/spam-l/
      <http://www.claws-and-paws.com/spam-l/>



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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • alice ttlg
      ... Actually the general definition of spam is UBE (Unsolicited Bulk Email). Spam is not about content, it s about *consent*. Someone who wants pornographic
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 16, 2004
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        On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:52:11 -0500, Brian Binder <brian.binder@...> wrote:
        > What are you talking about? Of course there is a difference between the 2.
        >
        > "SPAM" (Solicitaion of Pornographic Advertising and Marketing) deals
        > with email in your inbox.

        Actually the general definition of spam is UBE (Unsolicited Bulk
        Email). Spam is not about content, it's about *consent*. Someone who
        wants pornographic advertising is more than welcome to get it.
        Someone who wants religious or political advertising or advertising
        for pills or toner cartridges is also welcome to get it. But I don't
        want some or all of that, then it's spam to me because I never gave my
        consent.

        (and SPAM - all caps - is that canned stuff you buy in the grocery store. :))

        --
        alice ttlg

        Me, Blog/LJ, Links, Whatever:
        http://alice.ttlg.net/

        It's off in the distance.
        It came into the room.
        It's here in the circle.
      • rbmooney
        Alice, I just now backed out of NYTIMES and FORBES sites--again--and encountered several pop-ups on both BUT only temporarily. Since QURB and Avast! are the
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 16, 2004
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          Alice,
          I just now backed out of NYTIMES and FORBES sites--again--and encountered several pop-ups on both BUT only temporarily. Since QURB and Avast! are the only things I run all the time I can only assume that the "pop-ups" are part of either or both FIRMS' algorithms and the startegies of these two firms. In other words, they're allowed there by those two firms but are stopped and dropped by one of my two LIVE "safety net" programs. In any event, I agree with you that one can call "pop-ups" and "spam" [(l.c.) "a disruptive message posted on a computer network," Webster's Dict.] "whachamacallits" or "doohickeys," the fact is they are "interlopers" and about "consent." I don't want them to intrude or thrust themselves into my life . . . even for a second. If I like to watch heads rolling in Baghdad [I DON'T!] and another person doesn't then it seems to me that we are in a circle argument that we cannot solve. I say this because the person "liking beheading films" [if blocked at one site] will simply go to one of possibly hundreds of other sites that do show all manner of depraved human activities. And "forbidden fruit" is always the most attractive to "some" people!

          The same goes for all other "repulsive" subject matter: 'beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.' Another person may not consider my idea or site on "flowers" as top drawer and delete me and my site because they found my displays "vulgar." He or she, therefore, "takes charge" by withdrawing their consent. It doesn't matter how "ideas" and "sites" come to be or how owners submit references to their "ideas" and "sites"-- email or pop-ups--both come under the heading of "unwanted intruders" to many people. Unfortunately, it seems that in both cases the number of resistant people grows as does the number of sites dedicated to submitting "thought intruding" spam and pop-ups. Even MS...drags banner ads and/or pop-ups everywhere it goes. You can't trust anyone these days.
          Blake
          rbmooney

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "alice ttlg" <alice.ttlg@...>
          To: <ntb-offtopic@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 12:40 PM
          Subject: Re: [NTO] Pop-Ups


          > On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:52:11 -0500, Brian Binder <brian.binder@...> wrote:
          > > What are you talking about? Of course there is a difference between the 2.
          > >
          > > "SPAM" (Solicitaion of Pornographic Advertising and Marketing) deals
          > > with email in your inbox.
          >
          > Actually the general definition of spam is UBE (Unsolicited Bulk
          > Email). Spam is not about content, it's about *consent*. Someone who
          > wants pornographic advertising is more than welcome to get it.
          >> alice ttlg
          >
          > Me, Blog/LJ, Links, Whatever:
          > http://alice.ttlg.net/
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jody
          Hi Alice ttlg, ... ®
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 17, 2004
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            Hi Alice ttlg,

            >Brian Binder <brian.binder@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> "SPAM" (Solicitaion of Pornographic Advertising and Marketing)
            >> deals with email in your inbox.
            >
            >Actually the general definition of spam is UBE (Unsolicited Bulk
            >Email). Spam is not about content, it's about *consent*.
            >Someone who wants pornographic advertising is more than welcome
            >to get it. Someone who wants religious or political advertising
            >or advertising for pills or toner cartridges is also welcome to
            >get it. But I don't want some or all of that, then it's spam to
            >me because I never gave my consent.
            >
            >(and SPAM - all caps - is that canned stuff you buy in the
            >grocery store. :))
            ® <-- registered, well, you get the point. ;)
            I'd add my spam word to it: SPAM is that disgusting stuff...
            SPAM is the name that Hormel registered for the canned meat.
            As far as it being an acronym like Brian said above - don't
            know myself.

            I am very much guilty of using SPAM for the eMail kind and Spam
            as well. I learned from this thread. :) I did check the Hormel SPAM®
            out when at the grocery store yesterday.

            Happy Topics,
            Jody

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          • alice ttlg
            ... I never encounter popups at all. :) I use Firefox and it blocks all of them, without my ever seeing them and without installing any extra software. I use
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 17, 2004
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              On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 19:35:34 -0500, rbmooney <rbmooney@...> wrote:
              > Alice,
              > I just now backed out of NYTIMES and FORBES sites--again--and encountered several
              > pop-ups on both BUT only temporarily. Since QURB and Avast! are the only things I run
              > all the time I can only assume that the "pop-ups" are part of either or both FIRMS'
              > algorithms and the startegies of these two firms.

              I never encounter popups at all. :)

              I use Firefox and it blocks all of them, without my ever seeing them
              and without installing any extra software. I use Avast to protect me
              from email viruses. Along with my router firewall, that's it and I'm
              fully protected.

              <snip explanation of why Blake thinks popups are spam>

              You can define spam anyway you like, I was simply passing on the
              generally accepted definiton. If you define grass as that paving
              material on the road, that may work for you but will cause some
              confusion when talking with other people. :)

              --
              alice ttlg

              Me, Blog/LJ, Links, Whatever:
              http://alice.ttlg.net/

              It's off in the distance.
              It came into the room.
              It's here in the circle.
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