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Re: [NTO] Pop-Ups

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  • Fay
    Google Toolbar. Or use FireFox. Both have pop stoppers built in. You can allow any that you do want--demos and stuff. Fay
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 13, 2004
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      Google Toolbar. Or use FireFox.
      Both have pop stoppers built in. You can allow any that you do want--demos
      and stuff.

      Fay
    • Alec Burgess
      Mordecai: Are you using native IE? If so, I d strongly recommend using any of the IE-based tabbed browsers (MyIE2 recently renamed Maxthon, Sleipnir,
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 13, 2004
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        Mordecai:

        Are you using "native" IE?
        If so, I'd strongly recommend using any of the IE-based tabbed browsers
        (MyIE2 recently renamed Maxthon, Sleipnir, NetCaptor etc.) or
        Mozilla-Firefox or Opera. All have built-in popup blockers and AFAIK catch
        most if not all popups.

        Failing that either AdMuncher or Proxomitron. Proxomitron is free - used
        "out of the box" it does a very good job or filtering popups and a lot of
        other crap. If you invest the time in learning how to tune it you can do a
        myriad of the other "neat" stuff too. AdMuncher is somewhat easier to
        install and set up but not free.

        Regards ... Alec
        --


        ---- Original Message ----
        From: "Mordechai" <airflow@...>
        To: <ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 22:36
        Subject: [gla: [NTO] Pop-Ups

        > Hello Everybody,
        > I would like to ask your help about a good 'Anti pop-up'
        > program you know / use.
        > I have some old program called "Pop-Up Stopper" version
        > 2.2 and it works fine as far as 'normal' windows are
        > involved.
        > But it does not stop those small windows poping and
        > asking to install something or change the home-page.
        > Sometimes the 'fight' with those popups cause me to use
        > the task manager to close IE.
        > Recently found a "Popup Blocker Pro" program, it
        > described what it can do, so I installed it, the results
        > were bad and it was removed after one day - I would not
        > recomend it. So, if anyone knows / uses such a program
        > and is 'happy' with it, please let me know.
        > Many thanks in advance.
      • rbmooney
        Hi Mordechai, I just became a convinced follower of the anti-spam and anti-popup add program, QURB. I was amazing to watch it settle down my computer. I
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 13, 2004
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          Hi Mordechai,
          I just became a convinced follower of the anti-spam and anti-popup add program, QURB. I was amazing to watch it settle down my computer. I downloaded it last month and was quick to stop everything! I controlled what it stopped! That was the best part. Here's the URL and a brief blurb on QURB. Try it, along with Jason's suggestions. QURB looks like an excellent high-quality program with little or no weird glitches or bugs that I can tell. < http://www.qurb.com/get/ >.
          Blake
          rbmooney

          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


          Download FREE Qurb 2.1 Evaluation

          DOWNLOAD

          Q-Setup-Full.exe
          Size: 1377K
          Version: 2.1.213.2
          Press the DOWNLOAD button to the right to get the latest version of Qurb.

          Instructions

          When prompted, save the file to a convenient location on your computer.
          Open the file. The setup program will lead you through the rest of the process.
          The first time you start Outlook or Outlook Express after installing Qurb, there will be a short delay as Qurb automatically builds your list of Approved Senders. This delay may be longer if you have a large number of contacts or saved e-mail messages.

          Will Qurb Work With My Computer?

          Qurb supports Microsoft Outlook Express 5.5 and 6.0, Microsoft Outlook 2000, Microsoft Outlook XP, and Microsoft Outlook 2003. See our FAQ page for more information about system requirements.

          Qurb does not currently support Hotmail or IMAP mailboxes. Please register to be notified when Qurb supports these mailbox types.


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Mordechai" <airflow@...>
          To: <ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 9:36 PM
          Subject: [NTO] Pop-Ups


          > Hello Everybody,
          > I would like to ask your help about a good 'Anti pop-up' program you know / use.
          > I have some old program called "Pop-Up Stopper" version 2.2 and it works fine as far as 'normal' windows are involved.
          > But it does not stop those small windows poping and asking to install something or change the home-page.

          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Brian Binder
          I don t disagree, as I ve praised Qurb several times and I also use it. Though, if I was looking for a free one, I d go with SpamBayes if you are using
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 13, 2004
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            I don't disagree, as I've praised Qurb several times and I also use
            it. Though, if I was looking for a free one, I'd go with SpamBayes if
            you are using Outlook, like Qurb was designed for.

            But the thread was based more on popups than SPAM, which Qurb has
            nothing to do with.


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: rbmooney <rbmooney@...>
            Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 22:28:56 -0500
            Subject: Re: [NTO] Pop-Ups
            To: ntb-offtopic@yahoogroups.com

            Hi Mordechai,
            I just became a convinced follower of the anti-spam and anti-popup add
            program, QURB. I was amazing to watch it settle down my computer. I
            downloaded it last month and was quick to stop everything! I
            controlled what it stopped! That was the best part. Here's the URL
            and a brief blurb on QURB. Try it, along with Jason's suggestions.
            QURB looks like an excellent high-quality program with little or no
            weird glitches or bugs that I can tell. < http://www.qurb.com/get/ >.
            Blake
            rbmooney

            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


            Download FREE Qurb 2.1 Evaluation

            DOWNLOAD

            Q-Setup-Full.exe
            Size: 1377K
            Version: 2.1.213.2
            Press the DOWNLOAD button to the right to get the latest version of Qurb.

            Instructions

            When prompted, save the file to a convenient location on your computer.
            Open the file. The setup program will lead you through the rest of the process.
            The first time you start Outlook or Outlook Express after installing
            Qurb, there will be a short delay as Qurb automatically builds your
            list of Approved Senders. This delay may be longer if you have a large
            number of contacts or saved e-mail messages.

            Will Qurb Work With My Computer?

            Qurb supports Microsoft Outlook Express 5.5 and 6.0, Microsoft Outlook
            2000, Microsoft Outlook XP, and Microsoft Outlook 2003. See our FAQ
            page for more information about system requirements.

            Qurb does not currently support Hotmail or IMAP mailboxes. Please
            register to be notified when Qurb supports these mailbox types.


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Mordechai" <airflow@...>
            To: <ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 9:36 PM
            Subject: [NTO] Pop-Ups


            > Hello Everybody,
            > I would like to ask your help about a good 'Anti pop-up' program you know / use.
            > I have some old program called "Pop-Up Stopper" version 2.2 and it works fine as far as 'normal' windows are involved.
            > But it does not stop those small windows poping and asking to install something or change the home-page.

            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



            ADVERTISEMENT


            ________________________________
            Yahoo! Groups Links

            To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ntb-OffTopic/

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            ntb-OffTopic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          • rbmooney
            Neil I suggested QURB for popups & spam. Some here disagree. I still believe no one can prove there is a diff. between the 2! Blake rbmooney ... From: Brian
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 13, 2004
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              Neil
              I suggested QURB for popups & spam. Some here disagree. I still believe no
              one can prove there is a diff. between the 2!
              Blake
              rbmooney


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Brian Binder" <brian.binder@...>
              To: <ntb-offtopic@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 11:14 PM
              Subject: Re: [NTO] Pop-Ups


              > I don't disagree, as I've praised Qurb several times and I also use
              > it. Though, if I was looking for a free one, I'd go with SpamBayes if
              > you are using Outlook, like Qurb was designed for.
              >
              > But the thread was based more on popups than SPAM, which Qurb has
              > nothing to do with.
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: rbmooney <rbmooney@...>
              > Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 22:28:56 -0500
              > Subject: Re: [NTO] Pop-Ups
              > To: ntb-offtopic@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Hi Mordechai,
              > I just became a convinced follower of the anti-spam and anti-popup add
              > program, QURB. I was amazing to watch it settle down my computer. I
              > downloaded it last month and was quick to stop everything! I
              > controlled what it stopped! That was the best part. Here's the URL
              > and a brief blurb on QURB. Try it, along with Jason's suggestions.
              > QURB looks like an excellent high-quality program with little or no
              > weird glitches or bugs that I can tell. < http://www.qurb.com/get/ >.
              > Blake
              > rbmooney
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
              ------
              >
              >
              > Download FREE Qurb 2.1 Evaluation
              >
              > DOWNLOAD
              >
              > Q-Setup-Full.exe
              > Size: 1377K
              > Version: 2.1.213.2
              > Press the DOWNLOAD button to the right to get the latest version of Qurb.
              >
              > Instructions
              >
              > When prompted, save the file to a convenient location on your computer.
              > Open the file. The setup program will lead you through the rest of the
              process.
              > The first time you start Outlook or Outlook Express after installing
              > Qurb, there will be a short delay as Qurb automatically builds your
              > list of Approved Senders. This delay may be longer if you have a large
              > number of contacts or saved e-mail messages.
              >
              > Will Qurb Work With My Computer?
              >
              > Qurb supports Microsoft Outlook Express 5.5 and 6.0, Microsoft Outlook
              > 2000, Microsoft Outlook XP, and Microsoft Outlook 2003. See our FAQ
              > page for more information about system requirements.
              >
              > Qurb does not currently support Hotmail or IMAP mailboxes. Please
              > register to be notified when Qurb supports these mailbox types.
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Mordechai" <airflow@...>
              > To: <ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 9:36 PM
              > Subject: [NTO] Pop-Ups
              >
              >
              > > Hello Everybody,
              > > I would like to ask your help about a good 'Anti pop-up' program you
              know / use.
              > > I have some old program called "Pop-Up Stopper" version 2.2 and it works
              fine as far as 'normal' windows are involved.
              > > But it does not stop those small windows poping and asking to install
              something or change the home-page.
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              >
              >
              >
              > ADVERTISEMENT
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ntb-OffTopic/
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > ntb-OffTopic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Brian Binder
              What are you talking about? Of course there is a difference between the 2. SPAM (Solicitaion of Pornographic Advertising and Marketing) deals with email in
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 14, 2004
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                What are you talking about? Of course there is a difference between the 2.

                "SPAM" (Solicitaion of Pornographic Advertising and Marketing) deals
                with email in your inbox.

                "Popups" are a result of going out on the Internet and having to deal
                with excessive website advertisements or as a result of being infected
                by numerous spyware programs.

                QURB does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about popups. It was designed for SPAM
                relief only. It filters out junk mail. It doesn't protect you AT ALL
                if you are online surfing the Internet.

                I'll be more than happy to show you that there are numerous
                differences between the 2. I can't believe that you would go as far
                as to say that you don't think anyone can prove there is a difference
                between the 2. If there wasn't a difference, then why don't I just go
                out and download "Free Surfer" popup stopper for SPAM protection?
                Well, that's because it's made for popups, not SPAM. It makes as much
                sense as using QURB for popups. QURB does NOTHING when you are using
                a web browser and surfing the Internet. Look at what it integrates
                with. Outlook versions. It has nothing to do with web browser
                protection at all. It's not designed for that.

                Regarding this comment "I still believe no
                one can prove there is a diff. between the 2!"... Start a new thread
                and I'll be happy to prove it to you.

                Brian

                Neil
                I suggested QURB for popups & spam. Some here disagree. I still believe no
                one can prove there is a diff. between the 2!
                Blake
                rbmooney
              • Jason Wellband
                ... Spam isn t an acronym. Keep in mind that when you capitalize it, you re referring to the meat product by Hormel[1]. The term for abuse of resources to
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 14, 2004
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                  : -----Original Message-----
                  : From: Brian Binder [mailto:brian.binder@...]
                  : Subject: Re: [NTO] Pop-Ups
                  :
                  : What are you talking about? Of course there is a difference
                  : between the 2.
                  :
                  : "SPAM" (Solicitaion of Pornographic Advertising and Marketing) deals
                  : with email in your inbox.

                  Spam isn't an acronym. Keep in mind that when you capitalize it, you're
                  referring to the meat product by Hormel[1]. The term for abuse of resources
                  to promote advertising is "spam" (no caps unless it's grammatically
                  correct).

                  Second, spam in a general sense does *not* have to be email based. Spam can
                  be posting ads to a newsgroups, sending a user ads over the Messenger
                  service under 2k/XP, sending people ads over IM, etc...

                  The key thing is spam is unsolicited. The terms UBE and UCE go hand in hand.
                  But those two terms only refer to email spam, not IM spam, messenger popup
                  spam, etc.

                  Some people (on a list called SPAM-L[2]), think email spam is only a symptom
                  of the problem. I agree to an extent. Once email spamming becomes too much
                  trouble for the spammers, they'll move on to some other means of getting
                  their ads in front of users.

                  :
                  : "Popups" are a result of going out on the Internet and having to deal
                  : with excessive website advertisements or as a result of being infected
                  : by numerous spyware programs.

                  It definitely is a grey area. You asked for the content (whatever's on the
                  web page) and you got a popup. Assuming the website designers included that
                  popup, it'd be analogous to you conversing with someone over email and them
                  sending you an ad you didn't want. If it's because you have spyware/adware
                  on your computer, then all bets are off since it's not that website's fault
                  you got an ad.

                  : I'll be more than happy to show you that there are numerous
                  : differences between the 2. I can't believe that you would go as far
                  : as to say that you don't think anyone can prove there is a difference
                  : between the 2. If there wasn't a difference, then why don't I just go
                  : out and download "Free Surfer" popup stopper for SPAM protection?

                  As above, email isn't the only way to spam people.

                  : Regarding this comment "I still believe no
                  : one can prove there is a diff. between the 2!"... Start a new thread
                  : and I'll be happy to prove it to you.

                  Done altho I'm not the OP :)

                  Hth, hanw, ymmv, imho..

                  Jason

                  [1] http://www.cybernothing.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq.html#2.1

                  [2] http://www.claws-and-paws.com/spam-l/
                • Brian Binder
                  Spam isn t an acronym. Keep in mind that when you capitalize it, you re referring to the meat product by Hormel[1]. The term for abuse of resources to promote
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 14, 2004
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                    Spam isn't an acronym. Keep in mind that when you capitalize it, you're
                    referring to the meat product by Hormel[1]. The term for abuse of resources
                    to promote advertising is "spam" (no caps unless it's grammatically
                    correct).

                    >It was used for emphasis only.

                    Second, spam in a general sense does *not* have to be email based.

                    >I never once said that "spam" ONLY applied to email. I used email as the
                    >example simply because I was looking at 2 viewpoints. Why bring in NG's?
                    >It's pointless.

                    Spam can be posting ads to a newsgroups, sending a user ads over the Messenger
                    service under 2k/XP, sending people ads over IM, etc...

                    >Wrong. Posting to a NG *is* known as spam (in the sense of the topic).
                    >Posting over Messenger services is known as "spim" or "spIM" if you are
                    >critiquing grammar and usage.

                    The key thing is spam is unsolicited. The terms UBE and UCE go hand in hand.
                    But those two terms only refer to email spam, not IM spam, messenger popup
                    spam, etc.

                    Some people (on a list called SPAM-L[2]), think email spam is only a symptom
                    of the problem. I agree to an extent. Once email spamming becomes too much
                    trouble for the spammers, they'll move on to some other means of getting
                    their ads in front of users.

                    >spIM being a prime example at this point...

                    :
                    : "Popups" are a result of going out on the Internet and having to deal
                    : with excessive website advertisements or as a result of being infected
                    : by numerous spyware programs.

                    It definitely is a grey area. You asked for the content (whatever's on the
                    web page) and you got a popup. Assuming the website designers included that
                    popup, it'd be analogous to you conversing with someone over email and them
                    sending you an ad you didn't want. If it's because you have spyware/adware
                    on your computer, then all bets are off since it's not that website's fault
                    you got an ad.

                    >I don't see any grey area, but that's just me. People receive ads in
                    their email
                    >or what look like web pages because they have HTML support enabled in their
                    >browsers. If they are using plain text, they don't have that
                    problem, nor do they
                    >have to worry about popups in an email client. Ask any GroupWise user for
                    >instance. They receive messages in plain text, so no script is automatically
                    >executed, like those of you who use Microsoft's products with default settings.
                    >Plus, is more cases than not, it *is* the wesite's fault if you get the ads, no
                    >matter if you have spyware or not. Just because you have spyware doesn't make
                    >you exempt from the debate. At one time you visited a website or had a program
                    >installed on your PC that displays ads. When they call home, it's to a website
                    >online. If I visited a known spyware website and got infected
                    because I was using
                    >IE, how would it not be the website's fault that I got an ad? They
                    are the ones
                    >infecting users, they are the ones running the advertisements, they
                    are the ones
                    >controlling the software responsible for it. I don't disagree that
                    your settings
                    >should be nice and secure to prevent against it, but many aren't.

                    >Popups were not designed for email. Ask one (again I use) GroupWise user if
                    >they get popups through email and they'll look at you like you're out
                    of your mind.
                    >Popups aren't executed through the email client. Popups are executed through
                    >browsers.

                    >If popups and spam were all the same, why would there be separate products for
                    >each? (As stated below)

                    : I'll be more than happy to show you that there are numerous
                    : differences between the 2. I can't believe that you would go as far
                    : as to say that you don't think anyone can prove there is a difference
                    : between the 2. If there wasn't a difference, then why don't I just go
                    : out and download "Free Surfer" popup stopper for SPAM protection?

                    As above, email isn't the only way to spam people.

                    >Never said that once. They are 2 entirely different things. When was the last
                    >time you heard someone advertising a popup blocker that uses Bayesian
                    filtering?
                    >You never did. Bayesian filtering is used for spam and not popups. The 2 are
                    >not interchangeable terms.

                    >If a customer complained that they were being bombarded with spam email,
                    >would you install a popup filter on their PC? Nope. And if they
                    said that they
                    >were sick and tired of seeing popups while surfing the Internet, would you
                    >go ahead and install a spam filtering product? I think not.

                    >Outlook 2003 has spam filtering built into it. I'll bet that people
                    who use it don't
                    >benefit from blocked popups while on the Internet now, do they? Nope. Then,
                    >when people make the move to Firefox so they can stop popups while surfing,
                    >do they receive less spam in their inboxes? Absolutely not, as they aren't the
                    >same.

                    Brian
                  • Jason Wellband
                    ... [Jason] ... [Brian] ... No, it s not pointless. Newsgroup spam is spam just as much as UCE is considered spam. The discussion isn t specifically about one
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 14, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      : From: Brian Binder [mailto:brian.binder@...]
                      :

                      [Jason]
                      : Second, spam in a general sense does *not* have to be email based.
                      :
                      [Brian]
                      : >I never once said that "spam" ONLY applied to email. I used
                      : email as the
                      : >example simply because I was looking at 2 viewpoints. Why
                      : bring in NG's?
                      : >It's pointless.

                      No, it's not pointless. Newsgroup spam is spam just as much as UCE is
                      considered spam. The discussion isn't specifically about one or two
                      forms of spams. It's how each form is related to another.

                      [Jason]
                      : Spam can be posting ads to a newsgroups, sending a user ads
                      : over the Messenger
                      : service under 2k/XP, sending people ads over IM, etc...
                      :
                      [Brian]
                      : >Wrong. Posting to a NG *is* known as spam (in the sense of
                      : the topic).

                      How can you come to that conclusion? One can legitimately post to a
                      newsgroup and the post isn't spam.

                      [Brian]
                      : >Posting over Messenger services is known as "spim" or "spIM"
                      : if you are
                      : >critiquing grammar and usage.

                      I've never seen that term used but the important thing is that it is
                      still a form of spam - *regardless* of the medium used to send the ads.

                      [Jason]
                      : The key thing is spam is unsolicited. The terms UBE and UCE
                      : go hand in hand.

                      [Brian]
                      : But those two terms only refer to email spam, not IM spam,
                      : messenger popup
                      : spam, etc.

                      Only the E on the end denotes email. One could as easily say unsolicted
                      commercial IM's or unsolicted bulk IM's. The medium isn't the focus
                      here. The fact that the user did not give CONSENT to receive the ads is
                      the focus.

                      [Brian]
                      : : "Popups" are a result of going out on the Internet and
                      : having to deal
                      : : with excessive website advertisements or as a result of
                      : being infected
                      : : by numerous spyware programs.

                      Maybe, maybe not. Don't forget that websites themselves will give you
                      popup ads. I'm not talking about adware at this point. You go to a
                      webpage and that page uses Javascript's
                      window.open("http://some.ad.company/some/ad.gif")

                      [Jason]
                      : It definitely is a grey area. You asked for the content
                      : (whatever's on the
                      : web page) and you got a popup. Assuming the website designers
                      : included that
                      : popup, it'd be analogous to you conversing with someone over
                      : email and them
                      : sending you an ad you didn't want. If it's because you have
                      : spyware/adware
                      : on your computer, then all bets are off since it's not that
                      : website's fault
                      : you got an ad.

                      [Brian]
                      : >I don't see any grey area, but that's just me. People

                      The grey area is you wanted the website content but you didn't want the
                      ad. Yet the website has to pay for itself so ads are used to offset that
                      cost...

                      [Brian]
                      : their email
                      : >or what look like web pages because they have HTML support
                      : enabled in their
                      : >browsers. If they are using plain text, they don't have that
                      : problem, nor do they

                      Sure they do. Spam is sent in plain text all the time.

                      [Brian]
                      : >have to worry about popups in an email client. Ask any
                      : GroupWise user for
                      : >instance. They receive messages in plain text, so no script
                      : is automatically
                      : >executed, like those of you who use Microsoft's products
                      : with default settings.

                      I won't debate this. What I will say is that ANY email client user
                      should understand how their clients work and understand how to deal with
                      spam safely.

                      [Brian]
                      : >Plus, is more cases than not, it *is* the wesite's fault if
                      : you get the ads, no
                      : >matter if you have spyware or not. Just because you have
                      : spyware doesn't make
                      : >you exempt from the debate. At one time you visited a
                      : website or had a program
                      : >installed on your PC that displays ads. When they call

                      I had left adware out of the example because that involves a third party
                      and in some instances, the adware will react to a webpage you visit
                      WITHOUT the website doing anything to cause that.

                      [Brian]
                      : home, it's to a website
                      : >online. If I visited a known spyware website and got infected
                      : because I was using
                      : >IE, how would it not be the website's fault that I got an ad? They

                      It's the user's fault for allowing the adware to get on his/her computer
                      in the first place :)

                      : are the ones
                      : >infecting users, they are the ones running the advertisements, they
                      : are the ones
                      : >controlling the software responsible for it. I don't disagree that
                      : your settings
                      : >should be nice and secure to prevent against it, but many aren't.

                      But I doubt you can eliminate ALL spyware that's out there. That's why
                      it's the users' responsibility to protect themselves.

                      [Brian]
                      : >If popups and spam were all the same, why would there be
                      : separate products for
                      : >each? (As stated below)

                      Nobody said they're the same. They are different forms of spam. A Ford
                      and a Toyota aren't the same but they are different types of cars. Same
                      type of hierchical structure where spam is at the top and e-mail spam,
                      IM spam, NetBIOS messenger spam, newsgroup spam, etc. are below it.

                      [Brian]
                      : >You never did. Bayesian filtering is used for spam and not
                      : popups. The 2 are
                      : >not interchangeable terms.

                      See above...

                      Hth, imo, hanw, ymmv

                      Jason
                    • Brian Binder
                      [Jason] No, it s not pointless. Newsgroup spam is spam just as much as UCE is considered spam. The discussion isn t specifically about one or two forms of
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 14, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        [Jason]
                        No, it's not pointless. Newsgroup spam is spam just as much as UCE is
                        considered spam. The discussion isn't specifically about one or two
                        forms of spams. It's how each form is related to another.

                        >Great, I see nothing to debate about that issue. Spam occurs in NG's as
                        >much as in email. You won't hear me disagree. I spend more time in NG's
                        >than anywhere else, so I'm definitely aware of the spam.

                        [Brian]
                        : >Wrong. Posting to a NG *is* known as spam (in the sense of
                        : the topic).

                        [Jason]
                        How can you come to that conclusion? One can legitimately post to a
                        newsgroup and the post isn't spam.

                        >C'mon - read the sentence again. (in the sense of the topic) I'm not
                        telling you
                        >that anytime someone posts in the NG it's spam. I'm saying that as a
                        >spammer, posting his/her crap to a NG is the same thing. I agreed with
                        >you on the NG spam entirely, it's the spIM that I disagreed with.

                        [Brian]
                        : >Posting over Messenger services is known as "spim" or "spIM"
                        : if you are
                        : >critiquing grammar and usage.

                        I've never seen that term used but the important thing is that it is
                        still a form of spam - *regardless* of the medium used to send the ads.

                        >That's fine if you want to put it that way. I'm not going to debate spam
                        >versus spIM because it's splitting hairs.

                        [Jason]
                        Only the E on the end denotes email. One could as easily say unsolicited
                        commercial IM's or unsolicited bulk IM's. The medium isn't the focus
                        here. The fact that the user did not give CONSENT to receive the ads is
                        the focus.

                        >Which hasn't been proven. I never went down that path. Install
                        programs, visit
                        >web sites and use software as a whole. Every one of them has a disclaimer
                        >on you fully accepting responsibility for your actions and that the
                        site, owner,
                        >program, etc. is not responsible for life and limb, dumb decisions,
                        your consent,
                        >etc. It's the END USER'S responsibility. People out there don't realize that
                        >they gave consent when they entered the site, installed the app, etc.
                        >It's a problem, no doubt, but it's not being controlled at top levels at this
                        >stage in the game.

                        [Brian]
                        : : "Popups" are a result of going out on the Internet and
                        : having to deal
                        : : with excessive website advertisements or as a result of
                        : being infected
                        : : by numerous spyware programs.

                        [Jason]
                        Maybe, maybe not. Don't forget that websites themselves will give you
                        popup ads. I'm not talking about adware at this point. You go to a
                        webpage and that page uses Javascript's
                        window.open("http://some.ad.company/some/ad.gif")

                        >Of course they will. Didn't I say that above? "Website advertisements?"
                        >I understand a window popping up. There's windows that you prompt to open
                        >and windows that open because you simply entered the site. Either way,
                        >a spam filter isn't going to help you in either situation which is what I was
                        >getting at.

                        [Brian]
                        : >I don't see any grey area, but that's just me. People

                        [Jason]
                        The grey area is you wanted the website content but you didn't want the
                        ad. Yet the website has to pay for itself so ads are used to offset that
                        cost...

                        >You assume the responsibility by entering the site, no matter what. No one
                        >forced you to go there. It doesn't matter if you wanted it or not.
                        Since there's
                        >nothing you can legally do about it it's just another argument. Visit websites
                        >that don't use ads that you dislike seeing or try Proxomitron.

                        [Brian]
                        : their email
                        : >or what look like web pages because they have HTML support
                        : enabled in their
                        : >browsers. If they are using plain text, they don't have that
                        : problem, nor do they

                        [Jason]
                        Sure they do. Spam is sent in plain text all the time.

                        >I never said it wasn't. That would be the easiest thing in the world to solve
                        >if that was the fix. I'm not talking about "web links". I'm talking
                        about HTML
                        >code that is automatically opened by using a mail client that support very
                        >relaxed restrictions, such as Outlook or Outlook Express. You cannot do
                        >that nor do you have that problem if you are using a mail client that supports
                        >plain text only. Can you get spam with plain text? Of course you can.

                        [Brian]
                        : >have to worry about popups in an email client. Ask any
                        : GroupWise user for
                        : >instance. They receive messages in plain text, so no script
                        : is automatically
                        : >executed, like those of you who use Microsoft's products
                        : with default settings.

                        [Jason]
                        I won't debate this. What I will say is that ANY email client user
                        should understand how their clients work and understand how to deal with
                        spam safely.

                        >Agreed

                        [Brian]
                        : >Plus, is more cases than not, it *is* the website's fault if
                        : you get the ads, no
                        : >matter if you have spyware or not. Just because you have
                        : spyware doesn't make
                        : >you exempt from the debate. At one time you visited a
                        : website or had a program
                        : >installed on your PC that displays ads. When they call

                        [Jason]
                        I had left adware out of the example because that involves a third party
                        and in some instances, the adware will react to a webpage you visit
                        WITHOUT the website doing anything to cause that.

                        >I see where you are coming from.

                        [Brian]
                        : home, it's to a website
                        : >online. If I visited a known spyware website and got infected
                        : because I was using
                        : >IE, how would it not be the website's fault that I got an ad? They

                        [Jason]
                        It's the user's fault for allowing the adware to get on his/her computer
                        in the first place :)

                        >I don't disagree. I'm all for better web practices. That's why I love using
                        >Proxomitron. That wasn't quite my point, but using a popup killer simply
                        >isn't enough.

                        : are the ones
                        : >infecting users, they are the ones running the advertisements, they
                        : are the ones
                        : >controlling the software responsible for it. I don't disagree that
                        : your settings
                        : >should be nice and secure to prevent against it, but many aren't.

                        [Jason]
                        But I doubt you can eliminate ALL spyware that's out there. That's why
                        it's the users' responsibility to protect themselves.

                        >Right again. That's where safer computing comes into play. After I started
                        >using Proxomitron years ago I barely got anything spyware and popup related.
                        >It was fantastic, and still is to this day. Not every program is as easy as
                        >installing and hitting a button. Some need to be read and configured.
                        >Proxomitron is one of them. But Proxomitron never protected me from
                        >spam in my inbox which is what qurb does. That was my argument. The
                        >wrong tool was recommended for the job, plain and simple.

                        [Brian]
                        : >If popups and spam were all the same, why would there be
                        : separate products for
                        : >each? (As stated below)

                        [Jason]
                        Nobody said they're the same.

                        >Neil did: "I suggested QURB for popups & spam. Some here disagree.
                        >I still believe no one can prove there is a diff. between the 2!"
                        >Qurb has nothing to do with popups, only spam.

                        [Jason]
                        They are different forms of spam. A Ford
                        and a Toyota aren't the same but they are different types of cars. Same
                        type of hierchical structure where spam is at the top and e-mail spam,
                        IM spam, NetBIOS messenger spam, newsgroup spam, etc. are below it.

                        >The OP asked for a replacement for his popup blocker. Obviously Qurb
                        >is not a popup blocker, stopper, killer, etc. It stops spam, not popups.
                        >Fine and dandy if you want to say that popups are spam. If I argued
                        >every case, I'd surely lose because there are too many different examples.
                        >I don't care how anyone looks at the pyramid. The OP asked for a
                        >replacement to his popup killer and Qurb gets recommended? It's not
                        >used for that purpose. That was the basis of the first argument.
                        >The basis of the second one was differentiating between the 2 of them.
                        >No one will ever be convinced that popups are or are not spam simply because
                        >there are too many different types of popups and the disclaimers that go with
                        >seeing them / entering sites / using the Internet, etc. Spam is
                        spam. If popups
                        >were so similar, they'd be calling them "spamups" or something stupid
                        like that.
                        >They are different enough to be categorized on their own WITHOUT the word
                        >spam incorporated anywhere in the field.

                        [Brian]
                        : >You never did. Bayesian filtering is used for spam and not
                        : popups. The 2 are
                        : >not interchangeable terms.

                        [Jason]
                        See above...

                        >As I've stated before...They are different enough to require totally different
                        >products to prevent them, so my opinion is still the same.
                      • jeff scism
                        Spam- unsolicited advertising transmitted by electronic means, generally broadcast via e-mail to a number of blind recipients in the hopes of enticing a
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 14, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Spam- unsolicited advertising transmitted by electronic means, generally
                          broadcast via e-mail to a number of "blind" recipients in the hopes of
                          enticing a percentage of the recipients to respond to the advertising.
                          (See "UCE" - Unsolicited Commercial E-mail)

                          Chain-letters- often mis-called spam, Chain letters are letters which
                          are broadcast to a list of electronic email addresses, without prior
                          solicitation, but do not have advertising as a primary goal, usually
                          "chain" letters tell a proverb, and urban legend, or have a political or
                          "hidden" agenda. The "chain" letter designation comes from the
                          traditional phrase imploring recipiuents to "forward this to everyone
                          you know". A common Chain letter subject is false or imagined Virus
                          warnings, false "missing" child letters, and political or religious
                          "feel good" stories designed to elicit an EMOTIONAL reaction, and desire
                          to "share" SOMETIMES these can have embedded mal-ware, or hostile
                          executables (virii).

                          Pop-up- a function whereas an advertiser, or other individual will
                          initiate an advertisement to over-ride the web address your browser was
                          set to view, usually obscuring the desired page, may contain
                          advertising, contests, news, or other annoying,. or functional content,
                          which may or may not be a function of the site targetted. ISPs, and
                          other server owners often use POP-UPS to sell ad space to pay for free
                          or low cost services, in some instances a User Agreement is required to
                          use a free service, which requires the user to accept the pop-ups. These
                          are normal function of the web browser being abused by an outside
                          party, to force you to view their content.

                          Hijacking- Many illicit advertisers, and hackers who want to disrupt
                          YOUR web usage, can Hijack your browser, causing it to be under their
                          control, continuously "popinbg-up" a series of websites when ever a
                          browser is closed or a new address is activated. (The best protection
                          from these is a firewall, and specifically one which will shut down the
                          web access quickly, so yopu can manually kill the pop-ups, and stop more
                          from propagating) PORNOGRAPHY sites use these commonly, and a never
                          ending display of pornography can be quite disturbing to your internet
                          usage.

                          Mal-ware - (Mal (Bad) Ware (software))- Mal ware is hostile software
                          embedded in other programs, documents and even graphics files, which
                          entice you to view, download or use a program, while the hidden
                          software is installled adn runs without your Knowledge, VIRUSES are a
                          common Mal-ware, but a lot of concern is on SPYING/Reporting software
                          embedded in functional programs, Mal-ware can record your keystrokes
                          and passwords ( Trojan) and report the recorded information to a
                          website, email it to a third party, or send data from your Hard drive
                          to advertisers, Identity thieves, and others who you would not normally
                          share your web habits and information with WILLINGLY. Mal-ware removers
                          and blockers are available.
                        • Dart Chris
                          From a university piece on the subject: SPAM is named after the Monty Python comedy sketch about the canned meat product of the same name. Much of this mail is
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 15, 2004
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                            From a university piece on the subject:

                            SPAM is named after the Monty Python comedy sketch about the canned meat
                            product of the same name. Much of this mail is offensive and most people
                            want it stopped.

                            Chris


                            _____


                            From: Jason Wellband [mailto:jwellband-lists@...]
                            Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 9:22 PM
                            To: ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [NTO] Are spam & popups the same?


                            : -----Original Message-----
                            : From: Brian Binder [mailto:brian.binder@...]
                            : Subject: Re: [NTO] Pop-Ups
                            :
                            : What are you talking about? Of course there is a difference
                            : between the 2.
                            :
                            : "SPAM" (Solicitaion of Pornographic Advertising and Marketing) deals
                            : with email in your inbox.

                            Spam isn't an acronym. Keep in mind that when you capitalize it, you're
                            referring to the meat product by Hormel[1]. The term for abuse of resources
                            to promote advertising is "spam" (no caps unless it's grammatically
                            correct).

                            Second, spam in a general sense does *not* have to be email based. Spam can
                            be posting ads to a newsgroups, sending a user ads over the Messenger
                            service under 2k/XP, sending people ads over IM, etc...

                            The key thing is spam is unsolicited. The terms UBE and UCE go hand in hand.
                            But those two terms only refer to email spam, not IM spam, messenger popup
                            spam, etc.

                            Some people (on a list called SPAM-L[2]), think email spam is only a symptom
                            of the problem. I agree to an extent. Once email spamming becomes too much
                            trouble for the spammers, they'll move on to some other means of getting
                            their ads in front of users.

                            :
                            : "Popups" are a result of going out on the Internet and having to deal
                            : with excessive website advertisements or as a result of being infected
                            : by numerous spyware programs.

                            It definitely is a grey area. You asked for the content (whatever's on the
                            web page) and you got a popup. Assuming the website designers included that
                            popup, it'd be analogous to you conversing with someone over email and them
                            sending you an ad you didn't want. If it's because you have spyware/adware
                            on your computer, then all bets are off since it's not that website's fault
                            you got an ad.

                            : I'll be more than happy to show you that there are numerous
                            : differences between the 2. I can't believe that you would go as far
                            : as to say that you don't think anyone can prove there is a difference
                            : between the 2. If there wasn't a difference, then why don't I just go
                            : out and download "Free Surfer" popup stopper for SPAM protection?

                            As above, email isn't the only way to spam people.

                            : Regarding this comment "I still believe no
                            : one can prove there is a diff. between the 2!"... Start a new thread
                            : and I'll be happy to prove it to you.

                            Done altho I'm not the OP :)

                            Hth, hanw, ymmv, imho..

                            Jason

                            [1] http://www.cybernothing.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq.html#2.1
                            <http://www.cybernothing.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq.html#2.1>

                            [2] http://www.claws-and-paws.com/spam-l/
                            <http://www.claws-and-paws.com/spam-l/>



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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • alice ttlg
                            ... Actually the general definition of spam is UBE (Unsolicited Bulk Email). Spam is not about content, it s about *consent*. Someone who wants pornographic
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 16, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:52:11 -0500, Brian Binder <brian.binder@...> wrote:
                              > What are you talking about? Of course there is a difference between the 2.
                              >
                              > "SPAM" (Solicitaion of Pornographic Advertising and Marketing) deals
                              > with email in your inbox.

                              Actually the general definition of spam is UBE (Unsolicited Bulk
                              Email). Spam is not about content, it's about *consent*. Someone who
                              wants pornographic advertising is more than welcome to get it.
                              Someone who wants religious or political advertising or advertising
                              for pills or toner cartridges is also welcome to get it. But I don't
                              want some or all of that, then it's spam to me because I never gave my
                              consent.

                              (and SPAM - all caps - is that canned stuff you buy in the grocery store. :))

                              --
                              alice ttlg

                              Me, Blog/LJ, Links, Whatever:
                              http://alice.ttlg.net/

                              It's off in the distance.
                              It came into the room.
                              It's here in the circle.
                            • rbmooney
                              Alice, I just now backed out of NYTIMES and FORBES sites--again--and encountered several pop-ups on both BUT only temporarily. Since QURB and Avast! are the
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 16, 2004
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Alice,
                                I just now backed out of NYTIMES and FORBES sites--again--and encountered several pop-ups on both BUT only temporarily. Since QURB and Avast! are the only things I run all the time I can only assume that the "pop-ups" are part of either or both FIRMS' algorithms and the startegies of these two firms. In other words, they're allowed there by those two firms but are stopped and dropped by one of my two LIVE "safety net" programs. In any event, I agree with you that one can call "pop-ups" and "spam" [(l.c.) "a disruptive message posted on a computer network," Webster's Dict.] "whachamacallits" or "doohickeys," the fact is they are "interlopers" and about "consent." I don't want them to intrude or thrust themselves into my life . . . even for a second. If I like to watch heads rolling in Baghdad [I DON'T!] and another person doesn't then it seems to me that we are in a circle argument that we cannot solve. I say this because the person "liking beheading films" [if blocked at one site] will simply go to one of possibly hundreds of other sites that do show all manner of depraved human activities. And "forbidden fruit" is always the most attractive to "some" people!

                                The same goes for all other "repulsive" subject matter: 'beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.' Another person may not consider my idea or site on "flowers" as top drawer and delete me and my site because they found my displays "vulgar." He or she, therefore, "takes charge" by withdrawing their consent. It doesn't matter how "ideas" and "sites" come to be or how owners submit references to their "ideas" and "sites"-- email or pop-ups--both come under the heading of "unwanted intruders" to many people. Unfortunately, it seems that in both cases the number of resistant people grows as does the number of sites dedicated to submitting "thought intruding" spam and pop-ups. Even MS...drags banner ads and/or pop-ups everywhere it goes. You can't trust anyone these days.
                                Blake
                                rbmooney

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "alice ttlg" <alice.ttlg@...>
                                To: <ntb-offtopic@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 12:40 PM
                                Subject: Re: [NTO] Pop-Ups


                                > On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:52:11 -0500, Brian Binder <brian.binder@...> wrote:
                                > > What are you talking about? Of course there is a difference between the 2.
                                > >
                                > > "SPAM" (Solicitaion of Pornographic Advertising and Marketing) deals
                                > > with email in your inbox.
                                >
                                > Actually the general definition of spam is UBE (Unsolicited Bulk
                                > Email). Spam is not about content, it's about *consent*. Someone who
                                > wants pornographic advertising is more than welcome to get it.
                                >> alice ttlg
                                >
                                > Me, Blog/LJ, Links, Whatever:
                                > http://alice.ttlg.net/
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Jody
                                Hi Alice ttlg, ... ®
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jul 17, 2004
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi Alice ttlg,

                                  >Brian Binder <brian.binder@...> wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >> "SPAM" (Solicitaion of Pornographic Advertising and Marketing)
                                  >> deals with email in your inbox.
                                  >
                                  >Actually the general definition of spam is UBE (Unsolicited Bulk
                                  >Email). Spam is not about content, it's about *consent*.
                                  >Someone who wants pornographic advertising is more than welcome
                                  >to get it. Someone who wants religious or political advertising
                                  >or advertising for pills or toner cartridges is also welcome to
                                  >get it. But I don't want some or all of that, then it's spam to
                                  >me because I never gave my consent.
                                  >
                                  >(and SPAM - all caps - is that canned stuff you buy in the
                                  >grocery store. :))
                                  ® <-- registered, well, you get the point. ;)
                                  I'd add my spam word to it: SPAM is that disgusting stuff...
                                  SPAM is the name that Hormel registered for the canned meat.
                                  As far as it being an acronym like Brian said above - don't
                                  know myself.

                                  I am very much guilty of using SPAM for the eMail kind and Spam
                                  as well. I learned from this thread. :) I did check the Hormel SPAM®
                                  out when at the grocery store yesterday.

                                  Happy Topics,
                                  Jody

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                                • alice ttlg
                                  ... I never encounter popups at all. :) I use Firefox and it blocks all of them, without my ever seeing them and without installing any extra software. I use
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jul 17, 2004
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 19:35:34 -0500, rbmooney <rbmooney@...> wrote:
                                    > Alice,
                                    > I just now backed out of NYTIMES and FORBES sites--again--and encountered several
                                    > pop-ups on both BUT only temporarily. Since QURB and Avast! are the only things I run
                                    > all the time I can only assume that the "pop-ups" are part of either or both FIRMS'
                                    > algorithms and the startegies of these two firms.

                                    I never encounter popups at all. :)

                                    I use Firefox and it blocks all of them, without my ever seeing them
                                    and without installing any extra software. I use Avast to protect me
                                    from email viruses. Along with my router firewall, that's it and I'm
                                    fully protected.

                                    <snip explanation of why Blake thinks popups are spam>

                                    You can define spam anyway you like, I was simply passing on the
                                    generally accepted definiton. If you define grass as that paving
                                    material on the road, that may work for you but will cause some
                                    confusion when talking with other people. :)

                                    --
                                    alice ttlg

                                    Me, Blog/LJ, Links, Whatever:
                                    http://alice.ttlg.net/

                                    It's off in the distance.
                                    It came into the room.
                                    It's here in the circle.
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.