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Re: [NTO] W2K Pro or XP

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  • Jim Hall
    Christine, ... How many pages would you like? :-) The best way I can put it is that Windows XP Pro is what Windows always should have been. Install it and
    Message 1 of 11 , May 3 11:14 PM
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      Christine,
      At 10:51 PM 5/3/2004, you wrote:

      >Stay with W2K Pro, which I know well, or move to XP.
      >
      >What do you think? And why?


      How many pages would you like? :-)

      The best way I can put it is that Windows XP Pro is what Windows always should have been.

      Install it and learn the differences and you will hate having to use a computer that is running anything else.

      If you know 2K well, you will have no problem making the transition since much is simular.

      The major difference is that everytime you go to do something in XP that you used to do in 2K you will find yourself saying, WOW that is cool, why didn't they do that years ago.

      A word of caution, If you do move up to XP, don't immediately start loading all of those utilities that you had to have with 9X and 2K until you use XP for a few weeks. It has many of them incorporated.

      After you learn the differences in XP and what all it does, then you might want to add a few things along the way.

      Generally speaking, XP is the final flushed out and polished version of 2K without the old 98 hangers on.

      XP Pro costs a bit more than the Home Edition but in my opinion, it is the only way to go, primarily for the Restore feature.

      Regards,

      Jim
    • Scott Fordin
      ... I understand that XP has some nice features, but there are several reasons why I ve stuck with 2000: 1. I object to the phone home features and the
      Message 2 of 11 , May 4 10:13 AM
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        Christine wrote:

        >Ok,
        >Here I am again.
        >I have to rebuild my system due to just plain basic corruption. (Shareware,
        >messy NVidia drivers that should be for W2K Pro, missing MSInstaller, and
        >evidently many other issues.)
        >
        >Should I bite the bullet and install XP? What would the good reasons be? I
        >could care less about security, to be disgustingly honest, but I do care
        >about NAV compatibility, since I've had trouble with that on W2K.
        >
        >Stay with W2K Pro, which I know well, or move to XP.
        >
        >What do you think? And why?
        >
        >
        I understand that XP has some nice features, but there are several
        reasons why I've stuck with 2000:

        1. I object to the "phone home" features and the frequent
        proddings to sign up for Passport (which is evil).

        2. I object to the thuggish and arrogant lack of support for
        Java and Netscape-style plugins. Oh, you can get a Java
        runtime for XP, but it's pretty crippled. Now that there's
        an accord between Microsoft and Sun, maybe some better
        Java runtimes will be developed.

        3. I object to the licensing scheme, which screws home users
        in particular. If you have a few machines in your home,
        you'll need to purchase a full, separate license for each;
        any volume price breaks, as weak as they are, are for
        corporate users only. I think this is a scam.

        4. The number of security breaches and bugs in XP are more
        numerous than in Win2K.

        5. Hardware compatibility in XP is supposed to be better,
        but from what I've seen and heard, there are lots of
        older programs and many older peripherals that do not
        work with XP.

        6. I don't know what kind of machine you're running, but
        Win2K consumes fewer resources by default than XP.

        Win2K has been pretty good for me. Not perfect, but to me, the
        incremental advancements in XP are worth neither the cost nor
        disadvantages.

        Scott

        >Christine
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Larry Hamilton
        Jim/Christine, Windows XP Home DOES have System Restore. It does not install MS Backup, and you can only get it if you get a regular Win XP Home CD. I bought
        Message 3 of 11 , May 4 5:00 PM
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          Jim/Christine,

          Windows XP Home DOES have System Restore. It does not install MS Backup, and
          you can only get it if you get a regular Win XP Home CD. I bought an
          eMachine a couple of years ago and their OEM CD does not include the
          "extras", that in my opinion should be basic. From what I hear other brands
          of OEM CDs also are like this. Other than this I have been pleased with my
          eMachine. (I fear now that Gateway has bought them, they will kill the
          golden goose, since they seem to be wasting the rest of their company on
          poor decisions. Dell now has some pretty good deals, that compete with
          eMachines. We use Dell at work and I would buy a Dell in a minute, if I had
          the cash.)

          XP Home also does not have some of the security features so you can set up
          users as Power Users, they are either a full-blown admin or what XP Home
          calls a Limited user. There are some games my kids can't play unless I log
          them in as admin.

          If you don't need the power of XP Pro, XP Home is much cheaper, but if you
          are just buying XP to upgrade, and have the cash, I would recommend XP Pro.

          One thing to keep in mind. XP was designed so that it requires at least 15%
          free space on the hard drive. If you do not have at least this much free,
          disk defragmentation is not efficient. This is one of my biggest gripes, why
          can't I use any part of that 15%? A 20 GB hard drive wastes 3 GB. I have
          found if I dip into this 15% that Windows slows down. (I dual boot Linux and
          that partition only has about 100 MB free and it flies. Usually free does
          not mean better. Oh, well....)

          Larry Hamilton

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Jim Hall" <jehall@...>
          To: <ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 2:14 AM
          Subject: Re: [NTO] W2K Pro or XP


          > XP Pro costs a bit more than the Home Edition but in my opinion, it is the
          only way to go, primarily for the Restore feature.
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Jim
        • Alec Burgess
          Hi Christine: Sound reasoning (both pro and con) from the other guys on whether to go to WinXP from Win2K ... I used to use NAV and (intensively) all the
          Message 4 of 11 , May 4 9:37 PM
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            Hi Christine:

            Sound reasoning (both pro and con) from the other guys on whether to go to
            WinXP from Win2K

            Re your primary reservation:
            > I do care about NAV compatibility, since I've had trouble with that
            > on W2K.

            I used to use NAV and (intensively) all the utilities that go with it, and
            then when my subscription ran out, switched to (in succession) AVG and then
            Avast free versions for virus checking. Both were perfectly good and update
            frequently which AFAIK is the key thing to look out for. I've since found
            (free) utility replacements for all the functions that Symantec System
            provides except for GhostIt which I haven't had cause to use yet - no
            writeable CD on either system - both laptops:-(

            FWIW - about 6 months after starting with NAV I bought into the idea that
            virus checking email on the way in isn't necessary - all that's needed is to
            make sure you are scanning EXE's and DLL's as they get started (usually
            called AutoProtect or some variant thereof)

            I'm currently running Avast in "display details mode" - it shows a one liner
            indicating each EXE that starts has been scanned which gives me a nice,
            warm, fuzzy feeling :-)

            Regards ... Alec
            --

            ---- Original Message ----
            From: "Christine" <christine@...>
            To: "Note Tab Off-Topic" <ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 01:51
            Subject: [gla: [NTO] W2K Pro or XP

            > Ok,
            > Here I am again.
            > I have to rebuild my system due to just plain basic corruption.
            > (Shareware, messy NVidia drivers that should be for W2K Pro, missing
            > MSInstaller, and evidently many other issues.)
            >
            > Should I bite the bullet and install XP? What would the good reasons
            > be? I could care less about security, to be disgustingly honest, but
            > I do care about NAV compatibility, since I've had trouble with that
            > on W2K.
            >
            > Stay with W2K Pro, which I know well, or move to XP.
            >
            > What do you think? And why?
          • Christine
            Thanks, guys. You ve kind of confirmed the things I either already knew or have read. I just hated XP Pro so much the 1st time I installed it, I was furious.
            Message 5 of 11 , May 6 3:58 AM
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              Thanks, guys.
              You've kind of confirmed the things I either already knew or have read. I
              just hated XP Pro so much the 1st time I installed it, I was furious. I am
              going to have to find the settings that make it stop protecting me from
              myself. I prefer the ease of W2K, but being a share/freeware utility
              junkie, I keep whacking out my system. Recently the W2K Nvidia drivers
              really put a kabash on a lot of basic functions, so I'm about ready to give
              W2K the heave-ho and move on to something not 4, almost 5 years old. C'est
              la vie, I guess.

              Alec, thanks for the Avast endorsement. Un/reinstalling NAV had a really
              weird thing happen, where I would have told my clients (with barely
              disguised disgust), could NOT happen: Uninstall deleted my profile. Not
              just the NAV info, but everything. After working with a back-up copy of a 5
              year calendar, contacts, etc., being instructed yet again to un/reinstall
              NAV? When it couldn't locate my profile, it evidently took the initiative
              to search the networked drives, because it took my 2 back-ups with it. So
              if NAV gives me the least hint of trouble, it's history.

              I'll probably be back with questions. Particularly the security ones. I
              seem to recall there is a setting that will let me share Program Files, but
              I have to dig for it....

              Never a dull moment.

              Christine
            • Ed Brown
              I use the free version of ZoneAlarm and have it set to never let XP call home or for that matter call anyone, in fact only the apps that I want to call out
              Message 6 of 11 , May 6 7:16 AM
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                I use the free version of ZoneAlarm and have it set to never let XP call home or for that matter call anyone, in fact only the apps that I want to call out have the freedom to call out and only my browser have that freedom, most everything else I must approve or disapprove.
                Ed
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Christine
                To: ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 5:58 AM
                Subject: RE: [NTO] W2K Pro or XP


                Thanks, guys.
                You've kind of confirmed the things I either already knew or have read. I
                just hated XP Pro so much the 1st time I installed it, I was furious. I am
                going to have to find the settings that make it stop protecting me from
                myself. I prefer the ease of W2K, but being a share/freeware utility
                junkie, I keep whacking out my system. Recently the W2K Nvidia drivers
                really put a kabash on a lot of basic functions, so I'm about ready to give
                W2K the heave-ho and move on to something not 4, almost 5 years old. C'est
                la vie, I guess.

                Alec, thanks for the Avast endorsement. Un/reinstalling NAV had a really
                weird thing happen, where I would have told my clients (with barely
                disguised disgust), could NOT happen: Uninstall deleted my profile. Not
                just the NAV info, but everything. After working with a back-up copy of a 5
                year calendar, contacts, etc., being instructed yet again to un/reinstall
                NAV? When it couldn't locate my profile, it evidently took the initiative
                to search the networked drives, because it took my 2 back-ups with it. So
                if NAV gives me the least hint of trouble, it's history.

                I'll probably be back with questions. Particularly the security ones. I
                seem to recall there is a setting that will let me share Program Files, but
                I have to dig for it....

                Never a dull moment.

                Christine


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              • Jim Hall
                Christine, At 03:58 AM 5/6/2004, you wrote: Thanks, guys. You ve kind of confirmed the things I either already knew or have read. I just hated XP Pro so much
                Message 7 of 11 , May 6 9:49 PM
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                  Christine,
                  At 03:58 AM 5/6/2004, you wrote:
                  Thanks, guys.
                  You've kind of confirmed the things I either already knew or have read. I
                  just hated XP Pro so much the 1st time I installed it, I was furious.

                  My guess is that you didn't spend enough time with it to learn it.

                  The same people who said Win 98 was lousy and 95 was great are still out there saying that XP is lousy and 2K is great.

                  From my experience, most of them either have not spent the time to learn XP or have several systems and don't want to pay the license fees for their systems so they stay with a pirated version of 2K and put it on all their systems without paying for each system.


                  I am going to have to find the settings that make it stop protecting me from
                  myself. I prefer the ease of W2K, but being a share/freeware utility
                  junkie, I keep whacking out my system. Recently the W2K Nvidia drivers
                  really put a kabash on a lot of basic functions, so I'm about ready to give
                  W2K the heave-ho and move on to something not 4, almost 5 years old. C'est
                  la vie, I guess.

                  Fortunately those days are over for you. XP will not let that happen to you.]
                  I use Nvidia drivers with dual monitors with no problems.


                  Alec, thanks for the Avast endorsement. Un/reinstalling NAV had a really
                  weird thing happen, where I would have told my clients (with barely
                  disguised disgust), could NOT happen: Uninstall deleted my profile. Not
                  just the NAV info, but everything. After working with a back-up copy of a 5
                  year calendar, contacts, etc., being instructed yet again to un/reinstall
                  NAV? When it couldn't locate my profile, it evidently took the initiative
                  to search the networked drives, because it took my 2 back-ups with it. So
                  if NAV gives me the least hint of trouble, it's history.

                  I have been using CA's EZ Armor for several years now with great results.

                  I chose it initially because most virii were directed towards NAV and McAfee, and no one paid attention to CA.



                  I'll probably be back with questions. Particularly the security ones. I
                  seem to recall there is a setting that will let me share Program Files, but
                  I have to dig for it....


                  Christine, I don't know all of the settings, but I do know a lot of them and you are free to contact me privately any time for info on those that you have questions about.

                  Regards,

                  Jim
                • Christine
                  Jim, You re absolutely correct in that I didn t spend enough time learning XP. I had the disc in my drive and didn t look. I thought I was reinstalling 2K, so
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 7 7:03 AM
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                    Jim,
                    You're absolutely correct in that I didn't spend enough time learning XP.
                    I had the disc in my drive and didn't look. I thought I was reinstalling
                    2K, so was not mentally prepared to add anything new at that point. I was
                    afraid something I needed would fall out of my brain if I stuck anything new
                    in there. (a la Homer Simpson, I think.)

                    I am glad to hear about the Nvidia drivers. This is a good video card that
                    I hate to toss. I had a difficult time with a Jaton for several years
                    previously, so I am used to being a little behind in my hardware
                    installation!

                    I had already decided I'd keep my remaining systems W2K, since I own those
                    licenses and they're operating smoothly. I'm also keeping this thread for
                    when I decide to try out new AntiVirus. I've kind of had it with Symantec.
                    Reminds me of several other vendors that had great products and have gotten
                    lazy. Plus, bless their soul, the kids in India have been trained to
                    apologize (I hate gratuitous apologies) and send out inapplicable form
                    letters. I get enough of that crap with my bank, don't want it with my
                    software!

                    I might be in touch, Jim. As I indicated to you earlier, I've completed my
                    installation and am already receiving Windows-crashing errors when I try to
                    rename a file or copy files to the hard drive. :(

                    Thanks, all! I appreciate your opinions and experience!
                    Christine
                  • Wayne VanWeerthuizen
                    ... I seem to be missing something here. Why would you want to use the old Java runtime from Win2000 rather than the current runtime from Sun s site? Sun
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 9 10:08 AM
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                      Scott wrote:

                      > 2. I object to the thuggish and arrogant lack of support for
                      > Java and Netscape-style plugins. Oh, you can get a Java
                      > runtime for XP, but it's pretty crippled. Now that there's
                      > an accord between Microsoft and Sun, maybe some better
                      > Java runtimes will be developed.

                      I seem to be missing something here. Why would you want
                      to use the old Java runtime from Win2000 rather than the
                      current runtime from Sun's site? Sun updates the class
                      libraries every so often, and various new web applets
                      require the newer classes.


                      Wayne VanWeerthuizen
                    • Scott Fordin
                      ... My apologies for not making myself clear here. I m referring to the crippling of Java and Netscape-style plugins in IE6, which is (still) an integral part
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 10 7:26 AM
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                        Wayne VanWeerthuizen wrote:

                        >Scott wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >> 2. I object to the thuggish and arrogant lack of support for
                        >> Java and Netscape-style plugins. Oh, you can get a Java
                        >> runtime for XP, but it's pretty crippled. Now that there's
                        >> an accord between Microsoft and Sun, maybe some better
                        >> Java runtimes will be developed.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >I seem to be missing something here. Why would you want
                        >to use the old Java runtime from Win2000 rather than the
                        >current runtime from Sun's site? Sun updates the class
                        >libraries every so often, and various new web applets
                        >require the newer classes.
                        >
                        >
                        My apologies for not making myself clear here. I'm referring
                        to the crippling of Java and Netscape-style plugins in IE6,
                        which is (still) an integral part of XP. Java support in Win2K
                        is fine. I regularly update my Java VM with Sun's latest, but
                        Java in XP and IE6 simply does or did not work as well as it
                        does in Win2K. Admittedly, it can be argued that since the
                        latest Windows/IE service pack, Java works somewhat better,
                        but the fact remains that Microsoft did try to kill Java in
                        XP by means of lack of support, Java is not supported in XP
                        out of the box (and my mother is not going to download Sun's
                        latest VM), and even with the latest VM, Java under XP can be
                        dicier than with other OSs. What this means is that the Wal-
                        Mart/BestBuy/family/grandma crowd are going to get machines
                        that by default do not run Java well, which was Microsoft's
                        intention. That is the arrogance and thuggishness to which I
                        refer; Microsoft using monopoly advantage to cripple millions
                        of web pages and undermine a worthwhile technology.

                        Scott
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