Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Carriage Return and Enter: Are these duplicate Keys?

Expand Messages
  • Greg Chapman
    Hi Gang, I ve got into a discussion elsewhere on whether the CR (typing area) and Enter (numeric keypad) keys are duplicates of each other or different. I m
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 8, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Gang,

      I've got into a discussion elsewhere on whether the CR (typing area) and
      Enter (numeric keypad) keys are duplicates of each other or different. I'm
      seeking views and experience to put into the debate....

      I recognise that many people refer to the CR key as the Enter key. Some
      keyboards even have the legend "Enter" with the L-shaped arrow! (Though I
      would claim this is completely wrong - and certainly unhelpful for a IT
      tutor trying to distinguish between the keys!) Now I have come across
      someone who believes that it is legitimate to call the Enter key (numeric
      keypad) the CR key!

      I know that technically they are different and produce different scan codes
      when hit and _can_ be programmed to do different things. However, I can't
      recall any examples of a program where the key have been programmed to do
      things differently. (Though I recall that Excel or some such program may
      behave differently depending on whether the Scroll-Lock is on?)

      It's also been suggested that the two Shift keys are identical. Again, I
      can recall having programs that do different things with right-shift and
      left-shift. Can you recall examples?

      Can anyone help with other examples, history, or more technical details?

      Greg
    • Jeff
      The CR key is a hold over from manual typing. The Coomputer environment makes tyhe key assignments variable depending which program is running. The programmers
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 8, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        The CR key is a hold over from manual typing. The Coomputer environment
        makes tyhe key assignments variable depending which program is running.
        The programmers who setup applications can program the keys within a
        program to perform different functions tan they would in a word
        Processor, or a (exampl) Music program. Also the keys can be assigned
        TOTAL conversion to other international layouts. The only reason your
        keyboard operates in the manner it does is because YOU have your
        computer set up to do it that way through your Keyboard driver.
        --


        ~~~
        Jeff Scism, IBSSG
        Scismgenie@...

        http://blacksheep.rootsweb.com/
        http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~scismfam/
        http://www.rootsweb.com/~inmontgo/
        http://www.rootsweb.com/~nvchurch/

        All outgoing mail scanned for viruses.

        Genealogy, the science of haunting the dead.
      • Greg Chapman
        Hi Jeff, ... Bearing in mind that this discussion was for talking to computer newbies, can you quote me an example popular Music program where this occurs and
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 8, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Jeff,

          > The programmers who setup applications can program the keys within a
          > program to perform different functions tan they would in a word
          > Processor, or a (exampl) Music program.

          Bearing in mind that this discussion was for talking to computer newbies,
          can you quote me an example popular Music program where this occurs and what
          the different actions are that the keyboard does.

          For example I would suggest (though I accept that there are limitations with
          this) that the equivalent of the Carriage Return in NOTEPAD is WORD's
          shift-CR and not CR. by itself. That inserts a paragraph end rather than a
          line end.

          Greg
        • Jeff
          I have had a music writing program where the keyboard actually input to a music sheet the various symbols and notes for composing sheet music, I no longer
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 8, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            I have had a music writing program where the keyboard actually input
            to a music sheet the various symbols and notes for composing sheet
            music, I no longer have that program, but any application can have the
            key input specified differently from the 108 keyboard standard map.

            Lookin your computer for Charmap, it shows you all the different fonts
            in your computer and allows you to copy/paste from different fonts too
            a document, each different font is a new "map" for the keys to perform.
            --


            ~~~
            Jeff Scism, IBSSG
            Scismgenie@...

            http://blacksheep.rootsweb.com/
            http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~scismfam/
            http://www.rootsweb.com/~inmontgo/
            http://www.rootsweb.com/~nvchurch/

            All outgoing mail scanned for viruses.

            Genealogy, the science of haunting the dead.
          • Greg Chapman
            Hi Jeff, ... But charmap doesn t show keys like CR, ENTER, RIGHTSHIFT or LEFTSHIFT. It s examples of the use of those keys for variation in standard
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 8, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Jeff,

              > Lookin your computer for Charmap, it shows you all the different fonts
              > in your computer and allows you to copy/paste from different fonts too
              > a document, each different font is a new "map" for the keys to perform.

              But charmap doesn't show keys like CR, ENTER, RIGHTSHIFT or LEFTSHIFT. It's
              examples of the use of those keys for variation in "standard" behaviour for
              which I am looking. I know that various games can use those for "non-word
              processing" kinds of tasks. I am looking for further examples. Thanks for
              your thoughts though!

              Greg
            • R Shapp
              Hi Greg, The Divx video player version 2.5 ( www.divx.com ) says the Alt+Enter combo will cause a playing video clip to run in full screen mode. It actually
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 8, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Greg,

                The Divx video player version 2.5 ( www.divx.com ) says the Alt+Enter combo
                will cause a playing video clip to run in full screen mode. It actually does
                that only if one uses the Enter key on the alpha part of the keyboard. The
                Divx player doesn't respond at all to Alt+Enter if one uses the Enter key on
                the numeric keypad. It doesn't matter which Alt key is used.

                My environment is a Dell 4500 Pentium IV running WinXP Home SP1, and the
                keyboard is Dell's branded "Enhanced Multimedia keyboard". The keys are
                programmable, but I am using all factory defaults.

                As for other similarly labeled keys that perform dissimilar functions, I seem
                to remember the Shift keys at left and right of the keyboard had opposite
                functions when running one of the very early versions of the MS Flight
                Simulator. I don't remember the details, but my vague recollection is that
                the Shift keys reverted to similar operation when Flight Simulator was
                operated using a joystick.

                HTH

                Ray Shapp
              • Larry Hamilton
                Greg, I support, train, and install accounting and payroll software and the Numeric Enter as we call it works as a tab to simplify moving through data entry
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 8, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  Greg,

                  I support, train, and install accounting and payroll software and the
                  "Numeric Enter" as we call it works as a tab to simplify moving through data
                  entry fields, but when the focus is on a button or other control, it
                  activates it like they pressed the "regular" enter key. This is helpful for
                  an accounting package.

                  I know of some company's offerings that require you to type in a number and
                  then grab the mouse to get to the next field. This is not a good way to do
                  an interface for an accounting package.

                  Related to other key combinations: Due to a quirk in the programming
                  lanquage our product is written in, CTRL+C and CTRL+V do not work for copy
                  and paste, one has to use the older CTRL+INS and SHIFT+INS. If the
                  programmers had time, I am sure they could figure out how to change this,
                  but there is always something more crucial.

                  Larry Hamilton
                • Jim Hall
                  When Eudora downloads an email file, it remembers that it has and doesn t re-download it (even after it has been totally deleted from Eudora) if it is still on
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 9, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    When Eudora downloads an email file, it remembers that it has and doesn't re-download it (even after it has been totally deleted from Eudora) if it is still on the mail server.

                    Does anyone know the file that this info is saved in or how to make it re-download an email file?

                    TIA

                    Jim
                  • Jody
                    Hi Jim, Press the Shift key down when doing the mail check for options. I don t know if that will help or not, never tried it for you particular use. ... Happy
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 9, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Jim,

                      Press the Shift key down when doing the mail check for options. I
                      don't know if that will help or not, never tried it for you
                      particular use.

                      >When Eudora downloads an email file, it remembers that it has and
                      >doesn't re-download it (even after it has been totally deleted
                      >from Eudora) if it is still on the mail server.
                      >
                      >Does anyone know the file that this info is saved in or how to
                      >make it re-download an email file?


                      Happy Topics,
                      Jody

                      The NoteTab Off-Topic List
                      mailto:ntb-OffTopic-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      mailto:ntb-OffTopic-UnSubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ntb-OffTopic
                      All Fookes Software mailing lists:
                      http://www.fookes.us/maillist.htm
                    • Jim Hall
                      Jody et al, I thought I would write this up for anyone who wants to archive it. If you have deleted an email from Eudora but not from your mail server, you can
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 9, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Jody et al,

                        I thought I would write this up for anyone who wants to archive it.

                        If you have deleted an email from Eudora but not from your mail server, you can re-download it using a slightly involved 2 step approach.

                        First step is to press the Shift key down when doing the mail check. This will give you a download options dialog box which allows you to select the account and determine how the download is to work.

                        After selecting the account to check and selecting the "Using Options at Left" radio button check the "Fetch all message headers to In mailbox" check box and pick OK.

                        This will download all message headers (not the entire message) on the mail server for that account and put them in the In box.

                        Now you must fully open the Header that you want to download by double clicking on the Header. Viewing in the preview pane will not work.

                        When the header has been fully opened in the viewing pane, there will be a toggle button on the toolbar for "Retrieve From Server". Set the "Retrieve From Server" button to the depressed mode and then do a regular check mail and this time the entire email will be downloaded.

                        It isn't straight forward but it gets the job done.

                        Regards,

                        Jim
                      • Jody
                        Hi Jim, So, in short, my hunch worked for you? :) ... You must have Leave mail on server checked. Note: You do want to put the amount of days less you meet
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jan 9, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Jim,

                          So, in short, my hunch worked for you? :)

                          >If you have deleted an email from Eudora but not from your mail
                          >server, you can re-download it using a slightly involved 2 step
                          >approach.

                          You must have "Leave mail on server checked." Note: You do want
                          to put the amount of days less you meet your mailbox quota for
                          the amount of disk space used. In most cases, I'd say 7 days is
                          plenty.

                          Happy Topics,
                          Jody

                          The NoteTab Off-Topic List
                          mailto:ntb-OffTopic-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          mailto:ntb-OffTopic-UnSubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ntb-OffTopic
                          All Fookes Software mailing lists:
                          http://www.fookes.us/maillist.htm
                        • Christine
                          It s a shame there aren t any old (age- and experience-wise) legal secretaries here. Most lived on Word Perfect DOS forever and could keyboard so well it would
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jan 9, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment
                            It's a shame there aren't any old (age- and experience-wise) legal
                            secretaries here.
                            Most lived on Word Perfect DOS forever and could keyboard so well it would
                            embarrass the manufacturers. My point is that this question could probably
                            properly be answered by one of these women, who don't know their own
                            talents.

                            When I used to train them on Word, I'd have to unplug their mouse and say,
                            "OK. Now all your keyboard commands will work." It's the "kids" who can't
                            keyboard who are programming these days. Much of this skill is being lost,
                            because the programmers don't know it themselves.

                            Just an observation.
                            Christine
                          • Mike Hopkins
                            ... skill is being lost, because the programmers don t know it themselves. ... How true...how sadly true. It also seems that many of todays programmers are
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jan 9, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              ----- Original Message ----- >

                              >...it's the "kids" who can't
                              > keyboard who are programming these days. Much of this
                              skill is being lost, because the programmers don't know it
                              themselves.
                              >
                              > Just an observation.
                              > Christine


                              How true...how sadly true. It also seems that many of todays
                              "programmers" are skillful in stitching together libraries,
                              packages, objects and modules that others coded
                              who-knows-when, but the basic logic and coding skills seem
                              to being dying.

                              Thirtty-two years this week I started my first programming
                              class on a honeywell 6000 that had a suppport/operations
                              staf of 14 PER SHIFT!

                              I still remember plugboard machines like the IBM 1401.

                              Mike (the greybeard) Hopkins
                              ironmike/at\inav.net
                            • John Zeman
                              Maybe we should start yet another new NoteTab forum for us greybeards! LOL Just kidding, but I can certainly relate to what Christine and Mike say. I ve been
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jan 9, 2004
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Maybe we should start yet another new NoteTab forum for us
                                greybeards! LOL

                                Just kidding, but I can certainly relate to what Christine and Mike
                                say. I've been computin' since the early 70s, had my first schooling
                                in them in 1970 while I was in the navy. The only worthwhile thing I
                                really got from that navy school was a working knowledge of binary
                                and hex numbering which still serves me to this day.

                                The more complex things tend to get, the more the basic fundamentals
                                save me.

                                John
                                (Who is not only off topic here, but as usual, off his greybearded
                                rocker too)


                                --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hopkins" <ironmike@i...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message ----- >
                                >
                                > >...it's the "kids" who can't
                                > > keyboard who are programming these days. Much of this
                                > skill is being lost, because the programmers don't know it
                                > themselves.
                                > >
                                > > Just an observation.
                                > > Christine
                                >
                                >
                                > How true...how sadly true. It also seems that many of todays
                                > "programmers" are skillful in stitching together libraries,
                                > packages, objects and modules that others coded
                                > who-knows-when, but the basic logic and coding skills seem
                                > to being dying.
                                >
                                > Thirtty-two years this week I started my first programming
                                > class on a honeywell 6000 that had a suppport/operations
                                > staf of 14 PER SHIFT!
                                >
                                > I still remember plugboard machines like the IBM 1401.
                                >
                                > Mike (the greybeard) Hopkins
                                > ironmike/at\inav.net
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.