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Identities in MSOE

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  • Ray
    Hi Group, I just installed broadband internet at home using a second ISP. Now I have dial-up and cable, and I want to share one address book between them. I
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 2 10:03 PM
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      Hi Group,

      I just installed broadband internet at home using a second ISP. Now I have
      dial-up and cable, and I want to share one address book between them. I may
      have messed up by creating a separate identity for each service.

      Is it possible to share one address book for use with two separate ISPs?
      Constant importing address books from one account to the other is not a good
      solution. I use one instance of MSOE V6 on a stand-alone PC running WinXP
      Home.

      What is a good source of info on this topic?

      Thanks for the help.

      Ray Shapp
    • Bob Janes
      Hi Ray, ... It s no problem to use Outlook to work with more than one ISP (I regularly check mail from half-a-dozen). I m using Outlook 2002 which may have
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 3 12:32 AM
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        Hi Ray,

        > Is it possible to share one address book for use with two
        > separate ISPs?

        It's no problem to use Outlook to work with more than one ISP (I regularly
        check mail from half-a-dozen).

        I'm using Outlook 2002 which may have different options to yours. The basic
        principle is to have one ISP - probably your broad-band server for sending
        mail and use the rest to collect mail only. In Outlook 2002 I can create an
        e-mail group and use check boxes to enable send and receive. In the past
        I've used my main ISP's smtp address in my secondary ISP's accounts so it
        looks like 'collect from: pop.isp2.com - send to smtp.isp1.com'

        You'll also need to manually make sure that you send e-mail to the right
        account. Outlook defaults to reply to the account an e-mail was received
        from.

        Best wishes

        Bob

        --

        Bob Janes
        +44 (20) 8444-7274
        bob<at>bobjanes.com
        www.webster-and-janes.co.uk

        One must never lose time in vainly regretting the past nor in complaining
        about the changes which cause us discomfort, for change is the very essence
        of life. ~ Anatole France (1844-1924)
      • Greg Chapman
        Hi Ray, ... Yes! Here s what OE Help says... ================ What are identities? Creating identities is a way for several people to use Outlook Express
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 3 1:57 AM
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          Hi Ray,

          > I just installed broadband internet at home using a second ISP.
          > Now I have dial-up and cable, and I want to share one address
          > book between them. I may have messed up by creating a separate
          > identity for each service.
          >
          > Is it possible to share one address book for use with two separate ISPs?

          Yes! Here's what OE Help says...

          ================
          What are identities?
          Creating "identities" is a way for several people to use Outlook Express and
          the Address Book on the same computer. For example, you and a family member
          may share a computer. If you each create an "identity," you would each see
          your own mail and your own contacts when you log on under your identity.
          Once your identity is created, you can organize your contacts the way you
          want them by creating subfolders.

          Usually, you will create identities while you are using Outlook Express (or
          other applications that use identities). You can create identities from your
          address book only when you open your address book from the Start menu rather
          than from Outlook Express. To open Address Book from the Start menu, click
          Start, Programs, Accessories, Address Book.
          ================

          So identities in Outlook Express are designed for different people using the
          same machine, not for one person using different ISPs. By creating two
          identities you have told OE to hide the contacts of the other identity.

          What you should have is two accounts, not two identities.

          Open TOOLS > ACCOUNTS and click the MAIL tab, then the PROPERTIES button for
          each account. Confirm that you have the appropriate details for each ISP.

          Once you have done that, then when composing messages you should find that
          the FROM: line now has a drop-down list so you can pick the address you wish
          to send your message from.

          You can use the message rules facilities to create separate folders for
          inbound mail so you can keep mail sent to your various addresses separately.

          > What is a good source of info on this topic?

          I found Outlook Express's Help very easy to read. Open the INDEX tab and
          type "identities". The quote above comes from "About identities" and there
          are further links there about setting up contacts for each identity.
          However, none of that should be relevant to you....

          http://www.tomsterdam.com/ is the best site I know for finding answers about
          OE.

          I'll try to answer any other questions you may have, before you go off
          there, as I don't mind adding more information about this topic to my own
          site. It is aimed at my students (rank beginners) so has a rather specific
          UK-based audience in mind (using OE v5), so may not be ideal. Likely to be
          of most interest is:
          http://www.claithelp.fsworld.co.uk/moreusers.htm
          but look also at:
          http://www.claithelp.fsworld.co.uk/oe.htm
          http://www.claithelp.fsworld.co.uk/unit3.htm

          Greg Chapman
          http://www.claithelp.fsworld.co.uk
          Help, Handouts and Guidance for OCR's New CLAIT course
        • Jim Hall
          Ray, ... Trust me that won t last long :-) After a week of Broadband, you won t want to use dialup unless you have absolutely no other alternative. :-) As to
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 3 2:51 AM
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            Ray,

            At 01:03 AM 7/3/2003 -0400, you wrote:
            >Hi Group,
            >
            >I just installed broadband internet at home using a second ISP. Now I have
            >dial-up and cable, and I want to share one address book between them. I may
            >have messed up by creating a separate identity for each service.
            >
            >Is it possible to share one address book for use with two separate ISPs?
            >Constant importing address books from one account to the other is not a good
            >solution. I use one instance of MSOE V6 on a stand-alone PC running WinXP
            >Home.


            Trust me that won't last long :-)

            After a week of Broadband, you won't want to use dialup unless you have absolutely no other alternative. :-)

            As to OE, it doesn't care how you access the net as far as your address book and downloading your email is concerned. You should only have 1 OE and 1 address book regardless of how many ISP's you can connect to.

            The real problem comes with sending email and this can be tricky and it varies a lot with ISP's.

            Many of the Dialup services have stopped providing POP mail and they won't let you use their SMTP server - you are just stuck with their web mail. UGH!!

            All of the broadband services that I have used and know of provide POP mail and a SMTP server.

            The major problem you will have if both of your services have POP mail and a SMTP server is logging on to the SMTP server for whichever service you are currently using for access to the net.

            The easiest way to do this is to create an OE account for yourself, for each service, and just switch back and forth between them as your "DEFAULT ACCOUNT" (this has your SMTP logon and email sending info in it) depending on which ISP you are using. Again, this only has to do with logging on to the SMTP server.

            Just open OE and go to TOOLS>ACCOUNTS and create a new account for yourname+ISP initials for each ISP with the correct logon info in each one. Then select which you want to be the default.

            Also, today most of the ISP's are using POP before SMTP which means that you have to log on to their POP server BEFORE you are logged on to the SMTP server. This basically means that you usually have to check for your POP mail before you can send mail with their SMTP server.

            As to POP mail, I check 32 accounts on about 20 different POP servers. Of those 20 none are on my ISP. As to sending mail, I can only use my broadband ISP's SMTP server because this particular ISP won't let me transfer thru them to another SMTP server.

            This varies with ISP's but in general they are all tightening up on what tricky things you can do when it comes to sending email due to SPAM and Virii concerns. A couple of years ago, I could have sent an email (perhaps with a virus attached) to someone and used your name and info and for all intents and purposes no one could have proved that you didn't send it and that I actually did. Today, you can't do those sorts of things, or at least not through normal email services.

            I have a different ISP at my shop and I can go through them and use my own SMTP server (on my website) or others with no problem.

            I have MSN dialup on my laptop and I can use OE or Eudora to download my mail but if I want to send an email, I can only do so using MSN's web mail. And I hate using webmail!! :-)

            BTW, you will have broadband 100% of the time (unless you disconnect the cable) PLUS dialup when you use it.

            Yup, you will have both running at the same time (gets a little confusing sometimes) :-)

            I don't understand why you would want to use both Broadband and dialup other than having dialup as a backup in case your broadband is down for some reason.

            This is confusing for some people when they go to broadband but you have to separate in your mind what you are really doing.

            Basically, you are using one or the other ISP just to get connected to the internet - period.

            After you are connected, regardless of how you get connected, you can go to the same sites and do the same things with either connection.

            For example, if you had an MSN dialup account then got a Broadband cable service through your cable TV company, you can use the cable service to connect to the internet and once you are connected, you can still go to MSN and log on and do the same things you can do when you use dialup to connect to MSN - only about 100 times faster. :-)

            The difference is that when you use MSN dialup, you AUTOMATICALLY get the MSN homepage and their browser (which you can close and use whichever browser and homepage you like). If you are connected with your cable service, you have to go to MSN.com and then logon.

            Of course, if you want to continue to use MSN's (or AOL or any of the others) services, you still have to pay their monthly fee to be able to logon and access whatever it is you use their service for, regardless of how you access the internet.

            Bottom line here is that connecting to the internet is one thing, using the services offered by the ISP is another, and sending email is yet another.

            For sending email via a SMTP server (as opposed to using WebMail which does in fact use a SMTP server but you can't access it directly) you will have to do a little experimentation to find out exactly how your ISP works and what it will let you get away with. You will also find that it can be challenging to find the actual web address of SMTP servers.

            This is a bit more than you asked for but hopefully it gives you a little more insight into the similarities and differences between Dialup and Broadband when it comes to email (and other things)

            Hope it helps,

            If you have more specific questions, feel free to email me directly at jehall@... (yup, that is my own POP server)

            Jim
          • Greg Chapman
            Hi Jim, ... Ah! Yes, I forgot to mention that bit in my response! I can t speak for your part of the world, but here in the UK all ISPs I know still offer POP
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 3 7:22 AM
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              Hi Jim,

              > The real problem comes with sending email and this can be tricky
              > and it varies a lot with ISP's.

              Ah! Yes, I forgot to mention that bit in my response!

              I can't speak for your part of the world, but here in the UK all ISPs I know
              still offer POP mail and only offer web-mail as an additional (free)
              service.

              As for sending mail, all ISPs here do seem to block traffic for SMTP servers
              other than their own.

              I have an unmetered ISP account which I can use during the day, when I send
              most of my mail, but at night I use a different ISP.

              No trouble with POP (inbound) mail, but if I want to send anything in the
              evening, I have to set the SMTP server for the account on which I am sending
              mail to my evening ISPs server and then return it to my daytime ISP the
              following morning.

              Messy, but it is tolerable with my level of evening sendings!

              Greg
            • Don Passenger
              I have written a clip that I use in the morning to set my outgoing pop and other I use in the evening to set my other outgoing pop. It checks if outlooks
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 3 9:18 AM
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                I have written a clip that I use in the morning to set my outgoing pop and
                other I use in the evening to set my other outgoing pop.

                It checks if outlooks express is open, and if not opens it. After it is
                open, it steps through the account settings for two accounts and sets the
                outgoing smtp to match what I wish it to be.

                Also, I have sometimes used http://www.web2mail.com or
                http://www.hotmail.com to check a pop3 with "net" mail type of capability.
                Of course you have to decide you are willing to give up username and
                password to the sites. I think both are reputable, however, there still may
                be risks in transmission.

                I don't know if it is appropriate to post a clip here ... so I won't, but I
                can share my clip if you wish.

                --

                Don Passenger

                If you need an html fix visit
                http://www.htmlfixit.com

                html/perl/php/xhtml/javascript presented
                in easy tutorials with live help and forums
                to fix your problems
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Greg Chapman" <greg@...>
                To: <ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 10:22 AM
                Subject: RE: [NTO] Broadband vs Dialup Email was Identities in MSOE


                > Hi Jim,
                >
                > > The real problem comes with sending email and this can be tricky
                > > and it varies a lot with ISP's.
                >
                > Ah! Yes, I forgot to mention that bit in my response!
                >
                > I can't speak for your part of the world, but here in the UK all ISPs I
                know
                > still offer POP mail and only offer web-mail as an additional (free)
                > service.
                >
                > As for sending mail, all ISPs here do seem to block traffic for SMTP
                servers
                > other than their own.
                >
                > I have an unmetered ISP account which I can use during the day, when I
                send
                > most of my mail, but at night I use a different ISP.
                >
                > No trouble with POP (inbound) mail, but if I want to send anything in the
                > evening, I have to set the SMTP server for the account on which I am
                sending
                > mail to my evening ISPs server and then return it to my daytime ISP the
                > following morning.
                >
                > Messy, but it is tolerable with my level of evening sendings!
                >
                > Greg
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
              • Greg Chapman
                Hi Don, ... I m not on the clips list and won t join it just to wait for a single post, so I d love a copy privately, please. It might even get me into writing
                Message 7 of 8 , Jul 3 3:53 PM
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                  Hi Don,

                  > I have written a clip that I use in the morning to set my outgoing pop and
                  > other I use in the evening to set my other outgoing pop.
                  >
                  > It checks if outlooks express is open, and if not opens it. After it is
                  > open, it steps through the account settings for two accounts and sets the
                  > outgoing smtp to match what I wish it to be.

                  I'm not on the clips list and won't join it just to wait for a single post,
                  so I'd love a copy privately, please.

                  It might even get me into writing clips properly, about all I've done is
                  amend the "Format Email" one to suit my way of working and added a character
                  or two to the HTML "Special Character" clipbar button.

                  > Also, I have sometimes used http://www.web2mail.com

                  Swear by that one! Works fast, very clean interface, and you can customise
                  it to pick up almost any POP account.

                  Greg
                • R Shapp
                  Bob J, Don P., and Greg C. Thank you for your responses. Bob said: Although I m using Outlook
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jul 4 4:57 PM
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                    Bob J, Don P., and Greg C.

                    Thank you for your responses.

                    Bob said:
                    <<no problem to use Outlook to work with more than one ISP>>

                    Although I'm using Outlook Express v6, your point is still valid.

                    Greg said:
                    <<What you should have is two accounts, not two identities.>>

                    That's exactly the info I needed.

                    <<http://www.tomsterdam.com/ is the best site I know for finding answers about
                    OE.>>

                    That's a very useful site. Your claithelp pages are very well written.

                    My initial problem was caused by my uncritically accepting the "help" of a
                    very rushed tech at the broadband company. That's how I ended up with a
                    separate identity. He also told me I had to export my address book from the
                    old account (dial-up) and import it into the new one (broadband). I realized
                    it wasn't necessary to export/import because I merely moved all my addresses
                    into the shared folder. I wasn't able to see a comparable way to share all my
                    mail rules, however. This is now moot because I just created a new account
                    for broadband under the original identity.

                    It wasn't working because I was naming the POP3 and SMTP servers incorrectly.
                    The naming conventions are very different at the two ISPs. (This is a point
                    Greg made, and I would emphasize.)

                    Don said:
                    <<I have written a clip that I use in the morning to set my outgoing pop and
                    other I use in the evening to set my other outgoing pop.>>

                    I am subscribed on the ntb-clips group, and I would be interested in seeing
                    the clip. Until I gain confidence in this new setup, I'll continue to make
                    necessary switches manually, but I do appreciate the offer.

                    This email, itself is a bit of a test because I'm using the broadband account
                    to send it. I have been successfully sending test messages to myself, but
                    this one involves Yahoo. I may not get to see this posted until later
                    tonight because the dial-up phone is in use for another purpose.

                    Thanks again for your help

                    Ray Shapp
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