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Re: [NTO] Beta Test Invite from Ramon Silvera?

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  • Larry Hamilton
    He is a long time user of NoteTab and probably sent it to the active posters on the various lists. He also developed a program for programming complex NoteTab
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 19, 2003
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      He is a long time user of NoteTab and probably sent it to the active posters
      on the various lists.

      He also developed a program for programming complex NoteTab clips.

      Larry

      alice ttlg - koyaanisqatsi wrote:
      > Did anyone else get a Beta Test Invitation from Ramon C. Silvera,
      > Author of ClipWriter? Website at:
      > http://ptools.home.att.net/ClipWriter/cw.htm
      >
      > If so, do you know or have any ideas on where/how he obtained the
      > email addresses that he sent the invite to?
      >
      > alice ttlg
    • alice ttlg - koyaanisqatsi
      ... I was afraid of that, unfortunately that s called harvesting and sending his invite to those harvested email addresses is called spam. While I think what
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 19, 2003
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        Larry Hamilton wrote:
        > He is a long time user of NoteTab and probably sent it to the
        > active posters on the various lists.

        I was afraid of that, unfortunately that's called harvesting and
        sending his invite to those harvested email addresses is called spam.

        While I think what he's doing, developing stuff for NoteTab, is great,
        it would be much better if he didn't spam people, much better to ask
        for volunteers on the lists (with the permission of the listowner of
        course) or ask for volunteers at his website. Then people would be
        opting in for something they asked for and he could easily pick and
        choose from the volunteers whichever ones he wanted for his beta test.
        My action of posting to a mailing list isn't an open invitation for
        anyone to grab my email address and send me unsolicited bulk email
        (aka spam), regardless of how much it may relate to the mailing list.

        Harvesting email addresses from lists and/or spamming them is also a
        violation of the Yahoo TOS and Guidelines.

        Thanks much for the info, I've emailed Ramon and I'll discuss it with
        him further privately.

        alice ttlg

        --
        LJ: http://alicettlg.livejournal.com/
        Blog: http://coda.populli.org/
        Idiot Box: http://idiotbox.populli.org/

        ...a user was complaining that there was something wrong with the
        archive for a group because it looked like it was in Chinese.....It
        was in Chinese.
        - Brandon Long, eGroups.com
      • Jody
        Hi Alice and Others, ... Perhaps I m wrong, but don t you think harvesting and spam is a bit to harsh/strong for what he did? **I m not trying to start a
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 20, 2003
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          Hi Alice and Others,

          >> He is a long time user of NoteTab and probably sent it to the
          >> active posters on the various lists.
          >
          >I was afraid of that, unfortunately that's called harvesting and
          >sending his invite to those harvested email addresses is called
          >spam.

          Perhaps I'm wrong, but don't you think "harvesting" and "spam" is
          a bit to harsh/strong for what he did? **I'm not trying to start
          a fight, put anybody down,** or stick up for RS, but to me,
          harvesting is gathering a lot of eMail addresses and even more so
          with bots.

          Perhaps I've been on the lists for too long, but I have grown to
          know you all as friends and if I were invited to test something
          SPAM and/or harvesting wouldn't have entered my mind. I would
          almost feel a bit hurt if I did not get the invite, which I
          didn't this time. Well, not really, but perhaps borderline. <g>
          I don't know, but I think it would be an honour to get selected
          for private beta testing. In the past I've let RS make a short
          post to a few of the lists for announcements of CW and he is
          still welcome to do that. And, you are probably right in that he
          should have asked me to make a post, but he probably did not want
          the "whole world" in on it. His program is listed in NoteTab's
          Help under Third Party Products, FWIW.

          In fact, I guess I am guilty of the same thing. There has been a
          lot of times that Eric and I have invited (in private eMail,
          sometimes through a yahoogroups invite or regular private mail)
          6-12 or so list members to help to do private beta testing before
          we would go to public. I did it just the other day too.

          I've always considered the lists to be public domain since they
          are open to anybody, except for minimal SPAM precautions. I hate
          SPAM as much as the next guy/gal I suppose, but in the past year
          I tried pretty hard to not get all bent out of shape about it
          like I use to and to just realize there is not much I can do
          about it. Life's been much nicer now as far a eMail/spam goes.
          I use to report them all the time, and would just get angrier.
          Now, I get in the neighborhood 500+ spam messages a week.

          Well, got to get some rest. I hope you took this as just chit-chat
          and not to argue with you Alice; just my two cents worth. :)

          Happy Topics,
          Jody

          The NoteTab Off-Topic List
          mailto:ntb-OffTopic-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          mailto:ntb-OffTopic-UnSubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        • RS
          Hi Jody and Others, My initial intention was to start with a quiet, private beta testing, before involving everybody in a public beta. I selected and emailed
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 21, 2003
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            Hi Jody and Others,

            My initial intention was to start with a quiet, private beta testing, before involving everybody in a public beta.

            I selected and emailed ten people. Therefore, you or others who might also think I should have invited them, should not feel like you were left aside. I simply couldn't include every one in the first stage. In fact, too many were left out that I would have liked to count with.

            Since I wanted the beta process to be objective and free of any bias due to my personal preferences, I decided that four of those ten people should be *new faces*, that is, people I knew from the list but with whom I didn't have any direct acquaintance or personal inclination towards them. This idea wasn't much of a success: two of those four were expired addresses and bounced, one never replied, and another initiated the present thread on this list.

            Now that the cat is out of the bag, I might as well go for a public beta, and accept your offer to announce it on the lists. That way nobody will feel excluded.

            I want to add that Alice seems to be a very gentle and educated person, as transpired from our private communications. So let's move on.


            Best regards,

            Ramon C. Silvera
            Author of ClipWriter
            http://ptools.home.att.net/ClipWriter/cw.htm


            At 08:55 PM 03/20/03 -0600 you wrote:
            >Hi Alice and Others,
            > [...] I would
            >almost feel a bit hurt if I did not get the invite, which I
            >didn't this time. Well, not really, but perhaps borderline. <g>
            >I don't know, but I think it would be an honour to get selected
            >for private beta testing. In the past I've let RS make a short
            >post to a few of the lists for announcements of CW and he is
            >still welcome to do that. And, you are probably right in that he
            >should have asked me to make a post, but he probably did not want
            >the "whole world" in on it. His program is listed in NoteTab's
            >Help under Third Party Products, FWIW.
            >
            >In fact, I guess I am guilty of the same thing. There has been a
            >lot of times that Eric and I have invited (in private eMail,
            >sometimes through a yahoogroups invite or regular private mail)
            >6-12 or so list members to help to do private beta testing before
            >we would go to public. I did it just the other day too.
            >
            > [...]
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