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  • Fay
    I have a long article (about 7,000 words I think) which I ve made into a web page and it isn t good. I work on 640 x 480 and it seemed fine, but when I
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 19, 2003
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      I have a long article (about 7,000 words I think) which I've made into a web
      page and it isn't good.
      I work on 640 x 480 and it seemed fine, but when I maximised to my 17"
      screen it was practically unreadable--like a broadsheet without columns. I
      went to the style sheet and said paragraphs had to be 500px. That's too
      narrow, but as it's a maximum as well as a minimum I couldn't risk anything
      wider. I don't think it's the answer.

      I have some parts in tables, and to me they look better, but Tidy goes crook
      about that.
      Tidy actually hates the whole thing, and says it's "Proprietorial HTML".
      I'd find it easier to put everything into tables, but I'm trying to obey the
      rules when I can.

      Whatever, I've got wide bits and narrow bits and a real mess. I like the
      article, and I want to have it up, but where do I start with getting it
      looking right ? Please help.

      http://www.netspace.net.au/~feigh/paint.html
    • Jody
      Hi Fay, You might want to post on the HTML list instead of this one. There are some HTML pros (geeks, and I say that in honour;) on this list, but there are
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 19, 2003
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        Hi Fay,

        You might want to post on the HTML list instead of this one.
        There are some HTML pros (geeks, and I say that in honour;) on
        this list, but there are some real pros on the html list. See my
        sig-line or go to:

        http://www.notetab.net/html/maillist.htm
        If you sign up for any, please do not post questions about Clips and
        scripting languages on the Basic list. More difficult tasks like
        regular expressions and other scripting code should be posted on the
        Clips or Scripts lists. HTML should be posted on the HTML list. In
        short, please leave the Basic list for the very basic use of NoteTab.
        Thanks!!!

        >I have a long article (about 7,000 words I think) which I've made
        >into a web page and it isn't good.
        >I work on 640 x 480 and it seemed fine, but when I maximised to
        >my 17" screen it was practically unreadable--like a broadsheet
        >without columns. I went to the style sheet and said paragraphs
        >had to be 500px. That's too narrow, but as it's a maximum as well
        >as a minimum I couldn't risk anything wider. I don't think it's
        >the answer.
        >
        >I have some parts in tables, and to me they look better, but Tidy
        >goes crook about that.
        >Tidy actually hates the whole thing, and says it's "Proprietorial
        >HTML". I'd find it easier to put everything into tables, but I'm
        >trying to obey the rules when I can.
        >
        >Whatever, I've got wide bits and narrow bits and a real mess. I
        >like the article, and I want to have it up, but where do I start
        >with getting it looking right ? Please help.
        >
        ><http://www.netspace.net.au/~feigh/paint.html>http://www.netspace.net.au/~feigh/paint.html


        Happy Tab'n!
        Jody

        mailto:ntb-html-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        mailto:ntb-html-UnSubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ntb-html
        www.notetab.net www.clean-funnies.com

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Adrian/ Rosemary Worsfold
        It looked alright on my 640 by 480. Why do you have to say how many pixels there are? Give percentages. If Tidy says this is wrong, but it is right, leave it
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 19, 2003
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          It looked alright on my 640 by 480. Why do you have to say how many pixels there are? Give percentages. If Tidy says this is wrong, but it is right, leave it right.

          Adrian Worsfold

          http://www.pluralist.co.uk
        • Fay
          Sorry, Jody. Should I post the same letter again?
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 19, 2003
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            Sorry, Jody.
            Should I post the same letter again?
          • Fay
            Thank you Adrian The trouble with percentages (as I see it) is that 100% of the 640 x 480 screen is a nice readable width, but 100% of 1,024 is just too wide
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 19, 2003
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              Thank you Adrian
              The trouble with percentages (as I see it) is that 100% of the 640 x 480
              screen is a nice readable width, but 100% of 1,024 is just too wide to read
              comfortably.

              (I tried to switch this to the other list, but it bounced.)
            • Ed Brown
              They should fit both screens exactly one hundred per cent a perfect page on each size screen no matter what the pixel size as I see it. Ed ... From: Fay
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 19, 2003
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                They should fit both screens exactly one hundred per cent a perfect page on
                each size screen no matter what the pixel size as I see it.
                Ed
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Fay" <feigh@...>
                To: <ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 10:08 PM
                Subject: Re: [NTO] page looks bad


                Thank you Adrian
                The trouble with percentages (as I see it) is that 100% of the 640 x 480
                screen is a nice readable width, but 100% of 1,024 is just too wide to read
                comfortably.

                (I tried to switch this to the other list, but it bounced.)




                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • Bob Janes
                Hi Fay, ... Here s a quick attempt to work out what s happening with your page. As you guessed you ve got a mixture of stuff here. Your page is being formatted
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 20, 2003
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                  Hi Fay,

                  > Whatever, I've got wide bits and narrow bits and a real mess.
                  > I like the article, and I want to have it up, but where do I
                  > start with getting it looking right ? Please help.

                  Here's a quick attempt to work out what's happening with your page.

                  As you guessed you've got a mixture of stuff here. Your page is being
                  formatted by two things: the HTML mark-up and the CSS file white.css.

                  In white.css you've got a 'width: 500px' set for your 'p' paragraph setting
                  and this is what gives you the narrow column. However, in the HTML mark-up
                  you've used lots of <br>s and very few <p>s so the css isn't being applied
                  consistently.

                  If you want to go for a clean set up try this:

                  A) go through your HTML and clean up the mark-up. Put each paragraph in a
                  set of <p></p> tags. Similarly for each heading, image etc. Tidy will do
                  this for you if you let it but you'll need to make sure that the Tidy
                  configuration gives you what you want. There are a whole string of settings.
                  I don't see why Strict XHTML won't work on your page.

                  B) go through your HTML again and check on the 'class=' elements to make
                  sure that they make sense. Class elements should group things that are
                  similar in layout. If you have unique elements then use id= elements
                  instead.

                  C) go through your CSS and simplify it. Remember that CSS inherits most
                  properties so if you set a font-family for <body> you don't need to repeat
                  it for all the elements in the body. This will make your CSS much simpler
                  and easier to understand.

                  D) Go through and tweak what's left till you get just what you want . . .


                  Best wishes

                  Bob

                  --

                  Bob Janes
                  +44 (20) 8444-7274
                  bob<at>bobjanes.com
                  www.webster-and-janes.co.uk

                  Men learn while they teach. ~ Seneca (3 BC-65 AD)
                • hugo_paulissen
                  Fay, (Jody, this is OT for the OT-list, we know.) There were some answers to your question, and indeed, the best way is to clean out your original html as much
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 20, 2003
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                    Fay,

                    (Jody, this is OT for the OT-list, we know.)

                    There were some answers to your question, and indeed, the best way is
                    to clean out your original html as much as possible. BTW: TopStyle
                    (Lite) reports an error in your body section of your css-file:
                    font_size should be font-size.

                    You want some consistent whitespace on the right, I believe?

                    Without much pain you can achieve that by setting the margin-right
                    (of body for example) to, say, 25%. There are (many) other options,
                    but this one gives you direct control over the general page-layout.

                    You know you can use a different css-file for print-outs? That way
                    you can set different margins for screen and for paper, meaning that
                    the paper-version of that page doesn't have to have that 25% margin...

                    Hugo
                  • Jody
                    Hi Hugo and Fay... ... It can surely be discussed here, I was just saying she might get more feedback on the HTML list. :) Happy Tab n! Jody
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 20, 2003
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                      Hi Hugo and Fay...

                      >(Jody, this is OT for the OT-list, we know.)

                      It can surely be discussed here, I was just saying
                      she might get more feedback on the HTML list. :)

                      Happy Tab'n!
                      Jody

                      mailto:ntb-html-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      mailto:ntb-html-UnSubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ntb-html
                      www.notetab.net www.clean-funnies.com
                    • Fay
                      Thanks Bob, for your full and helpful answer.
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 22, 2003
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                        Thanks Bob, for your full and helpful answer.
                      • Fay
                        Thanks Hugo, No, I didn t know that (about printing). I thought you had to have a duplicate page. A year ago I thought I understood CSS, but getting into CSS
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 22, 2003
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                          Thanks Hugo,
                          No, I didn't know that (about printing). I thought you had to have a
                          duplicate page.
                          A year ago I thought I understood CSS, but getting into CSS Help for this
                          has told me otherwise.
                          I'll take notice of everyone's good advice and hopefully learn a bit along
                          the way.
                          Fay
                        • Fay
                          Jody, I m sorry, but I ve screwed up my nh list. One day a few weeks ago I was getting TWELVE copies of each post, so unsubscribed. Haven t been successful in
                          Message 12 of 16 , Mar 22, 2003
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                            Jody, I'm sorry, but I've screwed up my nh list. One day a few weeks ago I
                            was getting TWELVE copies of each post, so unsubscribed. Haven't been
                            successful in resubscribing.
                            Any day now, no doubt.
                          • Fay
                            Hugo wrote
                            Message 13 of 16 , Mar 22, 2003
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                              Hugo wrote <You know you can use a different css-file for print-outs?

                              Please, how do I do that?
                              Where do I write this?
                            • hugo_paulissen
                              ... outs? ... Hi Fay, Here is an example. Please note that you can use the print-preview option of your browser to see the difference. I hope it comes through.
                              Message 14 of 16 , Mar 23, 2003
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                                --- In ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com, "Fay" <feigh@n...> wrote:
                                > Hugo wrote <You know you can use a different css-file for print-
                                outs?
                                >
                                > Please, how do I do that?
                                > Where do I write this?



                                Hi Fay,

                                Here is an example. Please note that you can use the print-preview
                                option of your browser to see the difference. I hope it comes through.
                                Read more on this at http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/media.html

                                Hugo


                                <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
                                <html>
                                <head>
                                <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-
                                1">
                                <meta name="generator" content="NoteTab Pro">
                                <style>

                                body {margin-left: 10%; margin-right: 30%;}
                                p {font-family: sans-serif}
                                p.note {color: gray;}

                                @media print {
                                /* style sheet for print goes here */
                                body {margin: 0%;}
                                p {font-family: serif}
                                p.note {border-top: 1px solid black;}
                                div.navigation {display: none;}
                                }

                                </style>

                                <title>Introduction to NoteTab</title>
                                </head>
                                <body>

                                <div class="navigation"><a href="bla.htm">Top</a> | <a
                                href="bla.htm">Next</a></div>

                                <h1>Introduction</h1>

                                <p><p>NoteTab™ is a leading-edge Windows text editor and HTML coding
                                tool, and an excellent Notepad replacement. Winner of top software
                                industry awards since 1998, this application does it all: you can
                                handle multiple large files with a simple tabbed interface, use a
                                spell-checker and thesaurus (*), format text, extract detailed word
                                statistics, and bookmark documents. You can build document templates,
                                use powerful system-wide searches, and do global multi-line
                                replacements. NoteTab has a fully configurable toolbar with more than
                                90 commands available, and a Clipbar feature that lets you create
                                your own toolbar buttons to execute custom scripts and wizards.</p>

                                <p>Its Clipbook feature lets you create and organize clips, macros
                                that can range from text replacement to complete mini-applications,
                                using a simple scripting language with enough features to satisfy any
                                power user; a bunch of handy clip libraries is included. Web authors
                                will love the HTML clip library, just one of a load of features that
                                make NoteTab a great code-based HTML editor. Other gems include text-
                                to-HTML conversion, tag stripping, powerful regular expression
                                handling, and tools for adding links and color codes.</p>

                                <p class="note">* The spell checker and thesaurus tools are not
                                available in NoteTab Light and the trial version of NoteTab Pro.</p>
                                </body>
                                </html>
                              • Fay
                                Hugo wrote
                                Message 15 of 16 , Mar 23, 2003
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                                  Hugo wrote <Here is an example.

                                  Thank you.
                                • Jody
                                  Hi Fay, ... No problem at all, except with yahoogroups as of late. Happy Tab n! Jody mailto:ntb-html-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Mar 24, 2003
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                                    Hi Fay,

                                    >Jody, I'm sorry, but I've screwed up my nh list. One day a few
                                    >weeks ago I was getting TWELVE copies of each post, so
                                    >unsubscribed. Haven't been successful in resubscribing.
                                    >Any day now, no doubt.

                                    No problem at all, except with yahoogroups as of late.

                                    Happy Tab'n!
                                    Jody

                                    mailto:ntb-html-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    mailto:ntb-html-UnSubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ntb-html
                                    www.notetab.net www.clean-funnies.com
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