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Re: [NTO] Outpost by Agnitium

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  • Larry Hamilton
    The only problem I have seen that appears to be an issue with the freeware ZoneAlarm is preventing WinXP Home from shutting down correctly. It is usually slow
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 8, 2002
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      The only problem I have seen that appears to be an issue with the freeware
      ZoneAlarm is preventing WinXP Home from shutting down correctly. It is
      usually slow to shut down, or sometimes does not shut down.

      I switched to freeware Outpost just yesterday to try it. At www.grc.com it
      reports my PC the same way that running Zonealarm does.

      I also use Norton Antivirus too and have not noticed anything odd yet.

      The one thing I like about it is that it appears to have more options that
      the user can choose to tweak. I also like that it does not have a splash
      screen like ZoneAlarm. It takes long enough to boot, a long splash screen
      just drags it out.

      I had planned to stick with ZoneAlarm until I learned of other alternatives
      that are also free or low cost and do not hang Windows on shutdown.

      Larry

      DA wrote:
      > Hi Greg,
      >
      > Thanks for the info. Especially since your summary is all I have.
      > I never could find the report at pcplus.
      >
      > I e-mailed Agnitum question about the coexistence of Norton
      > AntiVirus e-=mail protection with their firewall protection.
      > (As of this moment, NAV has my trust since it has saved me a few
      > times already.) If I get an answer that will be my trigger to
      > go ahead and buy Outpost.
      >
      > DA
    • DA
      Hi Larry, Have you noticed any computer performance reduction since using Outpost? I got an e-mail reply from Agnitum saying that they suggest disabling
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 9, 2002
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        Hi Larry,

        Have you noticed any computer performance reduction since
        using Outpost?

        I got an e-mail reply from Agnitum saying that they suggest
        disabling Symantec SystemWorks before installing Outpost.

        The only thing I use from SystemWorks is the NAV part. The
        rest is redundant or useless to me. But, Agnitum says that
        they are "completely compatible with any AV/AT programs."
        So why disable SystemWorks? Maybe they meant disable NAV
        since that is all that can be disabled?

        Vague e-mails ... Oh well.

        I think they might not know what SystemWorks is, or there
        should be many utilities that do not work with Outpost.
        The only part that should routinely interact with Outpost
        is the NAV part since there is some sort of virus detection
        in Outpost -- Or am I wrong about this?

        They also won't let you buy the single license then upgrade
        to the "family" version. The lower resource usage of the
        Pro version was appealing to me, so I was going to buy the
        Pro version. I guess I will just use the freebie instead.

        DA


        Larry Hamilton wrote:
        >
        > I switched to freeware Outpost just yesterday to try it. At www.grc.com it
        > reports my PC the same way that running Zonealarm does.
        >
        > I also use Norton Antivirus too and have not noticed anything odd yet.
      • Larry Hamilton
        I do not have System Works, just the straight Norton antivirus. I have not noticed any issues. The issue with switching between WinXP Home accounts I
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 9, 2002
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          I do not have System Works, just the straight Norton antivirus.

          I have not noticed any issues. The issue with switching between WinXP Home
          accounts I experienced with ZoneAlarm appears to be resolved.

          Larry

          DA wrote:
          > Hi Larry,
          >
          > Have you noticed any computer performance reduction since
          > using Outpost?
          >
          > I got an e-mail reply from Agnitum saying that they suggest
          > disabling Symantec SystemWorks before installing Outpost.
          >
          > The only thing I use from SystemWorks is the NAV part. The
          > rest is redundant or useless to me. But, Agnitum says that
          > they are "completely compatible with any AV/AT programs."
          > So why disable SystemWorks? Maybe they meant disable NAV
          > since that is all that can be disabled?
          >
          > Vague e-mails ... Oh well.
          >
          > I think they might not know what SystemWorks is, or there
          > should be many utilities that do not work with Outpost.
          > The only part that should routinely interact with Outpost
          > is the NAV part since there is some sort of virus detection
          > in Outpost -- Or am I wrong about this?
          >
          > They also won't let you buy the single license then upgrade
          > to the "family" version. The lower resource usage of the
          > Pro version was appealing to me, so I was going to buy the
          > Pro version. I guess I will just use the freebie instead.
        • Brian Binder
          I uninstalled Symantec Client Firewall Enterprise 5.0 Corporate Edition (long name!!!) so hat I could try the pro version of Outpost. All looks fine so far.
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 9, 2002
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            I uninstalled Symantec Client Firewall Enterprise 5.0 Corporate Edition
            (long name!!!) so hat I could try the pro version of Outpost.

            All looks fine so far. SystemWorks uses so many monitoring features
            that it creates workstation traffic that is picked up by many firewalls.

            This is probably why they recommend disabling it.

            Many times SystemWorks will show a message regarding a program wanting
            to access a resource and most users will be asking what the heck it is
            and what it wants to do.

            Other than that, I use Symantec Anti-Virus 8.0 Corporate Edition and
            Outpost hasn't barked about it yet. Very smooth runner.

            Personally, I think it needs a different icon in the system tray instead
            of a blue dot with a question mark in the middle. I think that's kinda
            foul.

            I was thinking of changing it myself, but maybe I'll send them an email
            on it.

            If you guys DO want to use SystemWorks, I HIGHLY recommend staying with
            the 2002 version, because in many of my tests on various machines with
            or without a previous version of NSW installed, 2003 did more harm than
            good on the PC.

            There seems to be more overhead in the new version. Not very cool.

            Brian

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Larry Hamilton [mailto:lmh@...]
            Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 5:55 PM
            To: ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [NTO] Outpost by Agnitium

            I do not have System Works, just the straight Norton antivirus.

            I have not noticed any issues. The issue with switching between WinXP
            Home
            accounts I experienced with ZoneAlarm appears to be resolved.

            Larry

            DA wrote:
            > Hi Larry,
            >
            > Have you noticed any computer performance reduction since
            > using Outpost?
            >
            > I got an e-mail reply from Agnitum saying that they suggest
            > disabling Symantec SystemWorks before installing Outpost.
            >
            > The only thing I use from SystemWorks is the NAV part. The
            > rest is redundant or useless to me. But, Agnitum says that
            > they are "completely compatible with any AV/AT programs."
            > So why disable SystemWorks? Maybe they meant disable NAV
            > since that is all that can be disabled?
            >
            > Vague e-mails ... Oh well.
            >
            > I think they might not know what SystemWorks is, or there
            > should be many utilities that do not work with Outpost.
            > The only part that should routinely interact with Outpost
            > is the NAV part since there is some sort of virus detection
            > in Outpost -- Or am I wrong about this?
            >
            > They also won't let you buy the single license then upgrade
            > to the "family" version. The lower resource usage of the
            > Pro version was appealing to me, so I was going to buy the
            > Pro version. I guess I will just use the freebie instead.






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          • Jan Rosenstreich
            ... That may be vague but it also may mean to just disable it during the install. Many programs ask you to exit all running programs before installing their
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 9, 2002
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              On Mon, 09 Dec 2002 13:19:33 -0800, you wrote:

              >I got an e-mail reply from Agnitum saying that they suggest
              >disabling Symantec SystemWorks before installing Outpost.

              That may be vague but it also may mean to just disable it during the
              install. Many programs ask you to exit all running programs before
              installing their software. This prevents possible conflicts with shared
              files, lockups during the installation process and/or other fun things.
              They may have specifically mentioned Symantec SystemWorks since they
              found that it does cause problems during the installation process.

              If you are unclear about the meaning of disable Symantec SystemWorks
              before installing Output, you might be able to clarify it with Agnitum.

              Jan
              --
              Jan Rosenstreich
              Independent Distributor #130-646
              Multi-Pure Drinking Water Filtration Systems
              http://www.castle.net/~mystic/pages/multintr.html
            • DA
              Hi Brian, ... Thanks. Nice to know this! DA
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 10, 2002
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                Hi Brian,

                > If you guys DO want to use SystemWorks, I HIGHLY recommend staying with
                > the 2002 version, because in many of my tests on various machines with
                > or without a previous version of NSW installed, 2003 did more harm than
                > good on the PC.

                >
                > There seems to be more overhead in the new version. Not very cool.

                Thanks. Nice to know this!

                DA
              • DA
                Hi Jan, As far as I know, SystemWorks is just a collection of utilities such as Norton Utilities, CleanSweep, Ghost and WinFax. You have to execute them
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 10, 2002
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                  Hi Jan,

                  As far as I know, SystemWorks is just a collection of utilities
                  such as Norton Utilities, CleanSweep, Ghost and WinFax. You
                  have to execute them before they do anything.

                  Norton AntiVirus is the only one of these that lurks in the background
                  of the system and thus can have conflict with Outpost.

                  They must mean disable Norton AntiVirus, not SystemWorks, because
                  all I can do is uninstall, not disable, the rest of SystemWorks.

                  I'll try another e-mail to agnitum anyhow.

                  DA

                  > They may have specifically mentioned Symantec SystemWorks since they
                  > found that it does cause problems during the installation process.
                  >
                  > If you are unclear about the meaning of disable Symantec SystemWorks
                  > before installing Output, you might be able to clarify it with Agnitum.
                • Brian Binder
                  No prob. I actually got a NFR copy from them. I wasn t to impressed with it. Seems that to FULLY install the 2003 version, you have to first use a previous
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 10, 2002
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                    No prob.

                    I actually got a NFR copy from them.

                    I wasn't to impressed with it.

                    Seems that to FULLY install the 2003 version, you have to first use a
                    "previous version wiping utility"

                    That's not their exact terminology, but that's what it is. In addition
                    to actually uninstalling a previous version, you must run a system
                    cleaner to get rid of older registry files that could conflict.

                    I don't know about you guys, but I work with the registry like every day
                    of my life. I know all about the different hives and handles, etc. and
                    I don't like another program doing my dirty work for me.

                    You're trusting that a program written for a million users is going to
                    clean your registry in a "tailor-made" fashion.

                    Installers like InstallShield are GOOD, but they aren't that good to do
                    intelligent scanning yet - not to THAT effect.

                    I realize that it's strictly for their product, but I didn't like it.

                    Plus, if you just want to install certain modules, like the Anti-Virus;
                    it's hard to perform it.

                    It will install, but you'll know something is amiss, especially after
                    rebooting the machine and finding out that it won't start correctly and
                    barks at you about it.

                    People can call me crazy, but I have tried it on [1] Win2000 machine,
                    [1] Win98 machine, and [1] WinXP Pro machine.

                    Yes, one machine of each. Different hardware in all 3. The XP was from
                    scratch, and the Win98 had a previous version of NAV. The 2000 had just
                    the SystemWorks bits and pieces.

                    Most people are never going to install it on a "clean machine", but my
                    results for the 3 were so distasteful that I didn't want to mess around
                    with it anymore.

                    I stuck with 2002 because of it. They didn't do good with 2003 IMO.
                    Even the Norton Internet Security 2003 - did you hear about it?

                    There's a flaw in it that people found out about. Turns out it deleted
                    all of your emails. Lovely. I'm a fan of the Corporate Editions of
                    their products and such, but I can't give a thumbs-up to the 2003 suite
                    of products.

                    Just one person's opinion.

                    Brian

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: DA [mailto:daoki01@...]
                    Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 2:01 PM
                    To: ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [NTO] Outpost by Agnitium

                    Hi Brian,

                    > If you guys DO want to use SystemWorks, I HIGHLY recommend staying
                    with
                    > the 2002 version, because in many of my tests on various machines with
                    > or without a previous version of NSW installed, 2003 did more harm
                    than
                    > good on the PC.

                    >
                    > There seems to be more overhead in the new version. Not very cool.

                    Thanks. Nice to know this!

                    DA





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                  • Greg Chapman
                    Hi DA, ... Not quite true. Some of the utilities are memory resident if you run them, the Norton System Doctor and Norton Registry Tracker for example. I
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 11, 2002
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                      Hi DA,

                      > As far as I know, SystemWorks is just a collection of utilities
                      > such as Norton Utilities, CleanSweep, Ghost and WinFax. You
                      > have to execute them before they do anything.
                      >
                      > Norton AntiVirus is the only one of these that lurks in the background
                      > of the system and thus can have conflict with Outpost.

                      Not quite true. Some of the utilities are memory resident if you run them,
                      the "Norton System Doctor" and "Norton Registry Tracker" for example. I
                      can't recall if they are enabled in a default installation. It that might
                      be the reason they just off the blanket guidance to disable System Works.

                      BTW, for whoever started this thread, Agnitum only has one "i"?

                      Greg
                    • DA
                      Hi Greg, That s right about SystemWorks. I forgot about that because I never use it that way. I find the SystemWorks package pretty useless except for the
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 11, 2002
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                        Hi Greg,

                        That's right about SystemWorks. I forgot about that because I
                        never use it that way. I find the SystemWorks package pretty
                        useless except for the AntiVirus.

                        I'm the culprit that typo'd the extra "i". I Couldn't fix it or the
                        thread title would have been changed.

                        DA


                        Greg Chapman wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi DA,
                        >
                        > > As far as I know, SystemWorks is just a collection of utilities
                        > > such as Norton Utilities, CleanSweep, Ghost and WinFax. You
                        > > have to execute them before they do anything.
                        > >
                        > > Norton AntiVirus is the only one of these that lurks in the background
                        > > of the system and thus can have conflict with Outpost.
                        >
                        > Not quite true. Some of the utilities are memory resident if you run them,
                        > the "Norton System Doctor" and "Norton Registry Tracker" for example. I
                        > can't recall if they are enabled in a default installation. It that might
                        > be the reason they just off the blanket guidance to disable System Works.
                        >
                        > BTW, for whoever started this thread, Agnitum only has one "i"?
                      • Len
                        Hi Brian, Greg, DA, et al; Re: System Works 2003 I have used System Works for a number of years with good results. There is a custom installation that allows
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 11, 2002
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                          Hi Brian, Greg, DA, et al;

                          Re: System Works 2003
                          I have used System Works for a number of years with good results.
                          There is a custom installation that allows the user to set some
                          of the programs to not run at startup and I uncheck any others
                          in the MSCONFIG Startup list so no NSW programs are running in the
                          background. I then run each program when desired.
                          Each year they update the programs it seems to become less capable.
                          The System Check program isn't loaded with the 2003 version but it
                          is on the CD and can be loaded manually. Also the NAV takes about
                          twice as long as the 2002 version to check for viruses. I think
                          it may be running a new test.

                          Re: Outpost
                          I downloaded and installed the free program and found I need to learn
                          more about the types of protocols and intrusion methods before I can
                          set it up correctly. I don't think the default settings will be
                          sufficient. I un-installed and went back to Zone Alarm Free.
                          I'll re-test Outpost after I thoroughly read the User's Guide.
                          All the firewalls report blocked intrusions but they can't report
                          those that get through the firewall. :-))

                          Thanks for bringing Outpost to my attention, Len
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