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Re: [NTO] Hard Drive Backup

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  • Larry Thomas
    Hi Phil, ... have most of the disks for the stuff that is on it, but I would like to backup all the stuff I don t have disks for, plus a bunch of games I have
    Message 1 of 17 , May 6, 2000
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      Hi Phil,

      At 07:43 PM 05/05/2000 -0700, you wrote:
      >I have a machine with Win 98-2nd Edition on it, 64 megs ram, 10.8 HD. I
      have most of the disks for the stuff that is on it, but I would like to
      backup all the stuff I don't have disks for, plus a bunch of games I have
      made, and a bunch of other files I would hate to lose.
      >
      >I have another machine with a newly formatted 2.7 gig hard drive. Internal.
      >
      >My thought is: That hard drive would make a great back up disk. Can this
      be done? Is there any way to hook it externally to my new machine and use
      it for a backup?
      >
      >Thanks for your help, even if I can't do it.

      I just purchased a new machine and received it on March 10th. My brother
      installed my old 8.4 Gb hard drive as a secondary master on this machine
      and I purchased a pair of drive trays for the machine. The drive trays
      cost about $25.00 for the two and allow me to easily insert and remove
      drives from my computer. I have no skills at fooling around with hard
      drives and such at all and this is easy for me with the drive trays.

      The drive tray literally turns my hard drive into a removeable media
      device. It comes with a mounting rail that you plug the com ribbon and the
      power cord into instead of the hard drive. In the back of this rail is a
      female connector for the tray which holds your hard drive. You slide the
      tray into this rail and the back of the tray has a male connector that
      matches when you slide it in and and handle on the front closes and latches
      the tray to secure the connection. Inside the tray is another com ribbon
      to connect to the actual drive and another power cord. You connect this to
      the drive and carefully place it into the tray and place the lid/top on the
      tray and the drive can be safely inserted or removed with the power off on
      your computer.

      There is also a key on the front of the tray and I can disable the drive by
      turning the computer off and unlocking the drive with this key. When I
      restart the computer, it cannot see the drive. If I do this with my
      primary master, the computer will boot from the os on my secondary master.
      It makes a great backup drive especially with a software multi-partition os
      manager program that I have called System Commander 2000.

      Good Luck,

      Larry
      larryt@...
    • Marco Bernardini
      *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro* Alle 02.37 Saturday 06/05/2000 -0500, Larry Thomas ha mandato a Marco ... I hear of
      Message 2 of 17 , May 6, 2000
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        *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*

        Alle 02.37 Saturday 06/05/2000 -0500, Larry Thomas ha mandato a Marco
        questo messaggio:

        >The drive tray literally turns my hard drive into a removeable media
        >device.

        I hear of trays locking the disk while computer is turned on: a must, if
        you have kids!

        Bye

        Marco Bernardini
      • Wren McMains
        Hi Paul, ... You need something on the old machine which supports a network. Usually that means at least Windows for Work Groups 3.11. Or assuming you need
        Message 3 of 17 , May 6, 2000
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          Hi Paul,

          > Are there any compatibility problems using say DOS 6.22
          > on a 486dx with WIN98SE on a 300mhz machine?

          You need something on the old machine which supports a network.
          Usually that means at least Windows for Work Groups 3.11. Or
          assuming you need keep long file names Windows 95. (Years ago
          you might have used Lantastic or NetWare, but networking is built
          into all the newer MS OS's.)

          > >For the size data files we deal with today I wouldn't consider
          > >anything except network transfer.
          >
          > Do you mean a LAN setup within your own home?

          Yes. As I said the old machine can be an active backup for a
          critical application that you can't afford to be without for
          a few days while awaiting a repair. I also use it to backup
          ALL data files.

          -Wren
        • Jody
          Hi Marco, ... Should me a url for a freeware Windows utility and I ll check. Bye for now, Jody Adair Prov. 3:5-7; 4:23 http://www.sureword.com/sojourner
          Message 4 of 17 , May 6, 2000
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            Hi Marco,

            > I need some traceroutes from around the world to see where the
            > bottleneck really is: are here some kind souls to make a DOS
            > traceroute to www.cmirl.ge.infn.it and send results to me?

            Should me a url for a freeware Windows utility and I'll check.

            Bye for now,
            Jody Adair
            Prov. 3:5-7; 4:23

            http://www.sureword.com/sojourner
            http://www.sureword.com/kjb1611
            http://www.sureword.com/notetab
          • Lawrence M Hamilton, Jr.
            Hi Jody, ... This is what I used for Marco, lots more than just TraceRoute. http://www.samspade.org/ssw/ Also, If I am not mistaken, TRACERT.EXE is a
            Message 5 of 17 , May 6, 2000
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              Hi Jody,

              On Sat, 06 May 2000 20:06:56 -0500 Jody <KJB1611@...> writes:
              > Hi Marco,
              >
              > > I need some traceroutes from around the world to see where the
              > > bottleneck really is: are here some kind souls to make a DOS
              > > traceroute to www.cmirl.ge.infn.it and send results to me?
              >
              > Should me a url for a freeware Windows utility and I'll check.

              This is what I used for Marco, lots more than just TraceRoute.

              http://www.samspade.org/ssw/

              Also, If I am not mistaken, TRACERT.EXE is a traceroute commandline
              program that comes with(Win 9x/NT). Just go to commanline and type the
              program name and it will give you its options.

              For another free option that is smaller and does what SamSpade does wih a
              batch file and some freeware commandline programs, see:

              http://www.pc-help.org/trace/

              This is another thing that I have thought about enabling NoteTab to do.
              (Boy I really opened myself up with that one, didn't I?)

              HTH,

              Larry Hamilton, Jr. lmhamilton@...
              Hamilton National Genealogical Society, Inc.
              http://www.HamiltonGenSociety.org/
              My Web Site: http://notlimaH.tripod.com



              ________________________________________________________________
              YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
              Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
              Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
              http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
            • Jim Hall
              Hi Phil, FWIW You ve heard all of the other methods but here is an article about mirroring. There is no question that with todays large drives, the best way
              Message 6 of 17 , May 6, 2000
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                Hi Phil,


                FWIW You've heard all of the other methods but here is an article about
                mirroring.

                There is no question that with todays' large drives, the best way to
                backup a hard drive is with another hard drive.

                Aside from Mirror Technology which is continuous and real time, you need
                a scheduler and the upgrade for the standard one in Windows, allows you
                to schedule and backup to several different media. Regardless of the
                media or method (including LAN) it takes time to backup several GB of
                data so scheduling it to occur while you sleep is a good way to avoid
                the inconvenience of waiting for a backup to finish.

                I use all of the methods described on the list at various times for
                various reasons.

                If you would like to know more about the pro's and cons for any given
                method, feel free to send me a private missle.



                For Mirroring:

                http://www.pcworld.com/current_issue/article/0,1212,12315,00.html


                For Backup Exec (formerly Seagate, now Veritas)


                http://www.conner.com/support/software/


                http://www.driverforum.com/tapebackup/385.html



                Regards

                Jim
              • Lawrence M Hamilton, Jr.
                Hi Jim, ... Should such an explosive comment be permitted on the list? Perhaps you meant missive . Bad pun, I know, but I couldn t help myself. (Nor did
                Message 7 of 17 , May 6, 2000
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                  Hi Jim,

                  On Sat, 6 May 2000 19:35:17 -0700 "Jim Hall" <jehall@...> writes:
                  > If you would like to know more about the pro's and cons for any
                  > given
                  > method, feel free to send me a private missle.

                  Should such an "explosive" comment be permitted on the list? <g>

                  Perhaps you meant "missive".

                  Bad pun, I know, but I couldn't help myself. (Nor did I try! <vbg>)

                  Larry

                  "Incorrigible Punster, Do Not Incorrige"
                  ________________________________________________________________
                  YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
                  Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
                  Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
                  http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
                • Jody
                  Hi Lawrence & Marco, ... I m originating in Milton, FL via local access to ATT. 05/07/00 00:10:39 ping www.cmirl.ge.infn.it Ping www.cmirl.ge.infn.it
                  Message 8 of 17 , May 6, 2000
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                    Hi Lawrence & Marco,

                    > www.cmirl.ge.infn.it and send results to me?

                    > http://www.samspade.org/ssw/

                    I'm originating in Milton, FL via local access to ATT.

                    05/07/00 00:10:39 ping www.cmirl.ge.infn.it
                    Ping www.cmirl.ge.infn.it (130.251.168.218) ...
                    1 Addr:130.251.168.218, RTT: 359ms, TTL: 103
                    2 Addr:130.251.168.218, RTT: 349ms, TTL: 103
                    3 Addr:130.251.168.218, RTT: 363ms, TTL: 103
                    4 Addr:130.251.168.218, RTT: 341ms, TTL: 103
                    5 Addr:130.251.168.218, RTT: 337ms, TTL: 103
                    6 Addr:130.251.168.218, RTT: 342ms, TTL: 103
                    7 Addr:130.251.168.218, RTT: 337ms, TTL: 103
                    8 Addr:130.251.168.218, RTT: 336ms, TTL: 103
                    9 Addr:130.251.168.218, RTT: 359ms, TTL: 103
                    10 Addr:130.251.168.218, RTT: 957ms, TTL: 103

                    05/07/00 00:14:38 Fast traceroute www.cmirl.ge.infn.it
                    Trace www.cmirl.ge.infn.it (130.251.168.218) ...
                    1 199.70.249.154 140ms 132ms 135ms TTL: 0 (No rDNS)
                    2 12.77.244.129 150ms 134ms 161ms TTL: 0 (129.jacksonville-05-10rs.fl.dial-access.att.net ok)
                    3 199.70.254.113 141ms 137ms 162ms TTL: 0 (No rDNS)
                    4 12.127.11.89 150ms 136ms 154ms TTL: 0 (gbr1-a31s4.ormfl.ip.att.net bogus rDNS: host not found [authoritative])
                    5 12.122.5.125 143ms 135ms 167ms TTL: 0 (gbr4-p70.ormfl.ip.att.net bogus rDNS: host not found [authoritative])
                    6 12.122.2.181 149ms 147ms 149ms TTL: 0 (gbr3-p20.attga.ip.att.net bogus rDNS: host not found [authoritative])
                    7 12.122.1.142 147ms 167ms 157ms TTL: 0 (gbr4-p60.attga.ip.att.net bogus rDNS: host not found [authoritative])
                    8 12.122.2.178 165ms 160ms 176ms TTL: 0 (gbr4-p80.wswdc.ip.att.net bogus rDNS: host not found [authoritative])
                    9 12.123.9.53 164ms 163ms 164ms TTL: 0 (ggr1-p370.wswdc.ip.att.net bogus rDNS: host not found [authoritative])
                    10 192.205.32.134 173ms 171ms 184ms TTL: 0 (att-gw.dc.uu.net bogus rDNS: host not found [authoritative])
                    11 152.63.35.198 164ms 163ms 162ms TTL: 0 (159.ATM2-0.XR1.DCA8.ALTER.NET ok)
                    12 146.188.163.74 166ms 160ms 164ms TTL: 0 (289.ATM2-0.TR1.DCA8.ALTER.NET ok)
                    13 146.188.138.118 184ms 181ms 194ms TTL: 0 (115.ATM7-0.TR1.NYC1.ALTER.NET ok)
                    14 146.188.179.17 185ms 183ms 241ms TTL: 0 (199.ATM6-0.XR1.NYC4.ALTER.NET ok)
                    15 152.63.21.201 187ms 186ms 193ms TTL: 0 (189.ATM6-0.GW9.NYC4.ALTER.NET ok)
                    16 157.130.19.22 187ms 184ms 183ms TTL: 0 (dante3-gw.customer.ALTER.NET ok)
                    17 212.1.200.106 337ms 317ms 318ms TTL: 0 (ny-na.garr.net bogus rDNS: host not found [authoritative])
                    18 193.206.134.9 328ms 323ms 326ms TTL: 0 (mi-na-1.garr.net ok)
                    19 193.206.134.70 328ms 332ms 345ms TTL: 0 (ge-mi-2.garr.net ok)
                    20 193.206.132.86 336ms 337ms 360ms TTL: 0 (unige-rc.ge.garr.net ok)
                    21 130.251.253.178 337ms 339ms 337ms TTL: 0 (No rDNS)
                    22 130.251.203.2 332ms 337ms 339ms TTL: 0 (No rDNS)
                    23 130.251.206.134 339ms 354ms 342ms TTL: 0 (catapuggia.csita.unige.it ok)
                    24 130.251.168.218 377ms 362ms 337ms TTL:103 (cmeteo.fisica.unige.it ok)

                    Bye for now,
                    Jody Adair
                    Prov. 3:5-7; 4:23

                    http://www.sureword.com/sojourner
                    http://www.sureword.com/kjb1611
                    http://www.sureword.com/notetab
                  • Marco Bernardini
                    *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro* ... Thanks to everybody! I m the only one (I live 100 km from Genoa) having a long
                    Message 9 of 17 , May 7, 2000
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                      *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
                      > I need some traceroutes from around the world to see where the bottleneck
                      > really is

                      Thanks to everybody!
                      I'm the only one (I live 100 km from Genoa) having a long time connection,
                      more than 7 secs, to that site.
                      I make a trace using our server line and I see the signal going to
                      Switzerland before to bounce in Genoa.
                      But from London the line goes to New York to reach Italy: maybe it's better
                      to hire non-alcoholic electricians to make Internet backbones ;-)))

                      A good program for tracing, pinging, whoising (uh! a new verb for my
                      smellchecker!) is the free and fancy CyberKit:
                      http://www.cyberkit.net

                      Have a nice day

                      Marco Bernardini
                    • Jody
                      Hi Marco, ... Maybe it is not the drunkard s problem, at least not his real one. ;) I don t know how they do your routing over there, but the latest and
                      Message 10 of 17 , May 7, 2000
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                        Hi Marco,

                        > I'm the only one (I live 100 km from Genoa) having a long time
                        > connection, more than 7 secs, to that site.
                        > I make a trace using our server line and I see the signal going
                        > to Switzerland before to bounce in Genoa.
                        > But from London the line goes to New York to reach Italy: maybe
                        > it's better to hire non-alcoholic electricians to make Internet
                        > backbones ;-)))

                        Maybe it is not the drunkard's problem, at least not his real
                        one. ;) I don't know how they do your routing over there, but
                        the latest and greatest 10 years ago here when I worked in long
                        distance switching was SS7, a signalling and routing protocol.
                        One of the routing features is called "Look ahead routing." The
                        setup is pretty basic in that there are route choices. They work
                        in a descending order from the best route to least desired. we
                        would set our switches to try at least seven different routes
                        before returning an all circuits busy (ATB) condition. If the
                        route is faulty (no signal received) the next choice is tried.
                        The same with an ATB condition. In reality, all the routes are
                        checked while the call is trying to be connected. There was also
                        time-out options to set for each route. If the those times are
                        too long, perhaps seven seconds even <g>, and under a faulty
                        condition it will hang there until time-out occurs the proceed to
                        the next route.

                        One can place a call from say Miami, FL USA trying to get to NYC,
                        NY which has "express fiber" with no switching involved for first
                        and more route choices. On Mother's Day, it would not be
                        uncommon for that same call to do something wild like go to:

                        Atlanta, GA > Seattle, WA >
                        Honolulu, HI, > Tokyo, JP >
                        Honolulu, HI, San Francisco, CA >
                        Dallas, TX, > Memphis, TN
                        New Orleans, LA > [catch this -->] Miami, FL > NYC, NY.

                        Insane? Nope. Would you rather get an ATB signal or start
                        getting ring back tone (RBT) in less than a couple a seconds. ;)
                        Or would you like to go high and dry just to have DUN time out or
                        connect in 7 seconds until the problem is fixed, if fixable.

                        Of course it is fixable with fiber right into your modem <G>, but
                        is the equipment now being used able to make it quicker. Leaving
                        out of Milton here with old worn out copper till it hits fiber to
                        the local telephone company (TELCO) then shot to a TELCO in
                        Pensacola takes time before even getting switched to an Other
                        Common Carrier (OCC). A five second connect time for me is
                        normal and four of those is just getting to an OCC, or ATT in my
                        case because I use ATT. (Anything other than ATT is an OCC. :) It
                        came about them MCI sued ATT for being a monopoly and then all
                        the *other* companies came about.)

                        Connect time though is going to be different from just running a
                        trace when one is already connected as you know. My guess is,
                        Internet connections are at the bottom of the totem pole, at
                        least over here, because there is no charge to us other than our
                        monthly flat rate. Routing is also done in a priority order,
                        some services and call types get priority of the better route
                        choices over others. Local access can also hang while seeking an
                        available line for dial tone returned or switching out onto the
                        carrier lines. A connect or speed of a connect can only be as
                        fast as its slowest link.

                        Now we could go back to ring down circuits where you crank a
                        generator by hand sending AC to a switchboard where the busy body
                        noisy gossiping operator has to plug into the switchboard and ask
                        you who you want to call, then plug into that persons line and
                        rings them via a generator of course listening in the whole time
                        so others kept getting a ring no answer trying to get the
                        operator. ;) I actually got into the field when they still
                        taught those in school, but I don't think there any left in the
                        field except maybe some real desolate areas.

                        >http://www.cyberkit.net

                        ;)

                        Happy Topics,
                        Jody

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                      • Marco Bernardini
                        *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro* ... I suppose here it s the same. When I tell 7 secs it was traceroute response
                        Message 11 of 17 , May 7, 2000
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                          *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*

                          Alle 14.56 Sunday 07/05/2000 -0500, Jody ha mandato a Marco questo messaggio:

                          >Maybe it is not the drunkard's problem, at least not his real
                          >one. ;) I don't know how they do your routing over there, but
                          >the latest and greatest 10 years ago here when I worked in long
                          >distance switching was SS7, a signalling and routing protocol.

                          I suppose here it's the same.
                          When I tell 7 secs it was traceroute response (7000 msec), not browsing time...

                          Thanks for your interesting infos about US lines.
                          I'm just back from our Telecom site, where I look for a decent permanent
                          line (ADSL aren't still available in our area).

                          For a 64Kb line I must pay:
                          - 300$ for the activation
                          - 180$/monthly fee
                          of course everything + taxes 20%...

                          A 2,4 kb (Yes! 2,4 kb!) is:
                          - 150$ activation
                          - 120$ monthly

                          But there are big discounts for 155 Mb lines connected to Austria...

                          Who understand Italian can laugh at
                          http://www.telecomitalia.it/perlavorare/cdn_768@...

                          An ADSL (where available) is 1000$/yr.

                          So you understand why less than 15% of Italians are using the Internet.

                          Bye!

                          Marco Bernardini
                        • Jody
                          Hi Marco, ... Yes, that is robbery! Bye for now, Jody Adair Prov. 3:5-7; 4:23 http://www.sureword.com/sojourner http://www.sureword.com/kjb1611
                          Message 12 of 17 , May 7, 2000
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                            Hi Marco,

                            >For a 64Kb line I must pay:
                            >- 300$ for the activation
                            >- 180$/monthly fee
                            >of course everything + taxes 20%...
                            >
                            >A 2,4 kb (Yes! 2,4 kb!) is:
                            >- 150$ activation
                            >- 120$ monthly

                            >So you understand why less than 15% of Italians are using the Internet.

                            Yes, that is robbery!

                            Bye for now,
                            Jody Adair
                            Prov. 3:5-7; 4:23

                            http://www.sureword.com/sojourner
                            http://www.sureword.com/kjb1611
                            http://www.sureword.com/notetab
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