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RE: [NTO] Motherboard and Processor

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  • J. Michael Mollohan
    Jody, You mentioned in your original posting that you might need ISA on the new Mommyboard, but all the MBs you listed only specify *two* PCI. Whether there
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 4, 2001
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      Jody,

      You mentioned in your original posting that you 'might' need ISA on the new
      Mommyboard, but all the MBs you listed only specify *two* PCI. Whether
      there are ISAs on that MB in addition to the PCIs or not is a question to be
      resolved. At any rate two PCIs on a new MB seems a little sparse. I'd
      check CDW or TigerDirect or USItek Online. They tend to carry a better
      quality MB and have the CPUs either separately or bundled. Gigahertz
      machines are now close to $800 for the name brand machines. You might want
      to just consider holding off for a while and buying a whole new machine --
      say 600 or 700 MHz, which can be had on the cheap. Trying to patch things
      together from a 486 machine is difficult and is usually only a stopgap
      measure. For starters, all 486 machines have an AT chassis. Nearly, if not
      all, Athlon MBs only fit an ATX chassis. Unless you've upgraded major
      components recently on it, going for a whole new machine is probably a
      better idea, particularly if you're building a machine for non-geek users.

      HTH,
      Michael
    • Len
      Hi Jody, Forrest, Carl, Harvey, et al; Are Jim Hill (very good info in the past) and other systems types in the audience? A comment about the trade off on
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 4, 2001
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        Hi Jody, Forrest, Carl, Harvey, et al;

        Are Jim Hill (very good info in the past) and other systems types in the audience? A comment about the trade off on CPU, Memory, harddrive controller speeds and 7200 rpm drives versus types of programs used would be very helpful.

        I have been looking toward building a companion for my PIII, 667MHz, 128 MB system (which is limited by the motherboard) and have come up with the following ideas (not conclusions). This system does almost everything I need but because of my background I am really getting into the high performance specs.

        Go with a top of the line motherboard (~$140) for future component upgrades.
        Asus, Abit, Via, Gigabite, FIC (in that order?) with an ATA/UDMA 100 IDE hard drive controller (SCSI is faster but significantly more expensive(?), AGP 4x slot, 4 or more PCI slots and an ISA slot(?). If the sound and video are built-in, make sure they can be replaced with AGP and PCI cards, respectfuly, which are available with many more options. These motherboards have outputs for system voltages and CPU, MB and other temperatures. They also have outputs for CPU, case and other fan speeds if the three wire fans are used.

        I'm not sure about the range of clock speeds but a 66 to 150 MHz range seems to be the standard. I'm also not sure about the 200/266 Double Data Rate (DDR) memory but a comment at http://www.tomshardware.com indicated that they saw an increase of performance of only about 10%. I gather these rates are for overclocked systems. 150 MHz memory is the fastest I've seen other than the DDR and Rambus 200, 400, 800 Mhz memory. The AMD CPUs seem to be very tolerent of overclocking however heat is a problem as with the 800 to 1000 MHz CPU's. BTW, how can a CPU be overclocked without screwing up the PCI bus?

        I'm using a set of D-Link network cards with a crossover cable for a 2 system network and they seem to be good and inexpensive.

        My preference in cases would be a mid ATX case with several 5.5 and 3.5 bays and a 300 watt power supply.

        The Thunderbird and Duron(?) 700-750 MHz systems seem to offer the most "bang for the buck" right now. I've recommended these to several people. Did I goof up?

        Let us know what you come up with. Len

        At 01:33 AM 3/4/01 -0600, you wrote:
        >I am looking for a MB and a processor, say about 850MHz-1GHz in
        >an AMD. I really do not know much about this, but it appears
        >from just hitting some pages at www.pricewatch.com that I want a
        >socket A to support it.
      • Jody
        Hi Len, Forrest, Carl, Harvey, et al; Any objections? ;) FIC AZ11E RETAIL BOX 2 YR WARRANTY AZ-11-E ATA100 Socket A 1a/1cnr/5p/3d/ 2usb AZ11-E iNSTOCK with cpu
        Message 3 of 18 , Mar 4, 2001
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          Hi Len, Forrest, Carl, Harvey, et al;

          Any objections? ;)

          FIC AZ11E RETAIL BOX 2 YR WARRANTY AZ-11-E ATA100 Socket A
          1a/1cnr/5p/3d/ 2usb AZ11-E iNSTOCK with cpu - AMD Thunderbird
          1.1Ghz 1100Mhz Socket A, 3DNow! (K7) & Heatsink and Cooling Fan
          Complete Set INSTOCK $ 306 Shipping: Starts Between $12-$15
          Tufshop.com 888-919-1101

          It would cost me about $75 more to go with ABit in a comparable
          MB and the 1.1Ghz. I figured I'd go ahead and get a mid-tower
          w/300W power supply and it will make it much easier for me that
          way.

          Happy Topics,
          Jody

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        • Len
          Hi Jody; Your selection should make a good base for a mid/high-level system. I found the mid-tower case to be much easier to work in and it will have more
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 5, 2001
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            Hi Jody;

            Your selection should make a good base for a mid/high-level system. I found the mid-tower case to be much easier to work in and it will have more ports and bays than a mini-tower. Everything inside will be more accessable and the footprint is only slightly larger than the mini-tower.

            Have fun, Len

            At 07:58 PM 3/4/01 -0600, you wrote:
            >Hi Len, Forrest, Carl, Harvey, et al;
            >
            >Any objections? ;)
            >
            >FIC AZ11E RETAIL BOX 2 YR WARRANTY AZ-11-E ATA100 Socket A
            >1a/1cnr/5p/3d/ 2usb AZ11-E iNSTOCK with cpu - AMD Thunderbird
            >1.1Ghz 1100Mhz Socket A, 3DNow! (K7) & Heatsink and Cooling Fan
            >Complete Set INSTOCK $ 306 Shipping: Starts Between $12-$15
            >Tufshop.com 888-919-1101
            >
            >It would cost me about $75 more to go with ABit in a comparable
            >MB and the 1.1Ghz. I figured I'd go ahead and get a mid-tower
            >w/300W power supply and it will make it much easier for me that
            >way.
            >
            >Happy Topics,
            >Jody
            >
            >The NoteTab Off-Topic List
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            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Jody
            Hi Len, ... Thanks, and I do have a mid-tower now and like it. It only has 3 5 1/4 access places, but that is all I need - only use two. :) It has two 3.5
            Message 5 of 18 , Mar 5, 2001
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              Hi Len,

              >Your selection should make a good base for a mid/high-level
              >system. I found the mid-tower case to be much easier to work in
              >and it will have more ports and bays than a mini-tower.
              >Everything inside will be more accessable and the footprint is
              >only slightly larger than the mini-tower.

              Thanks, and I do have a mid-tower now and like it. It only has 3
              5 1/4" access places, but that is all I need - only use two. :)
              It has two 3.5" also so I am aware of the size of a mid-tower.
              Never has a mini - they just look too small.

              Happy Topics,
              Jody

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            • thefrank
              Hey Jody, (...don t take any wooden motherboards...) Decay is inherent in all compound things. Strive on with diligence -- Sid warm regards, tf
              Message 6 of 18 , Mar 5, 2001
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                Hey Jody,

                (...don't take any wooden motherboards...)

                "Decay is inherent in all compound things. Strive on with diligence"
                -- Sid

                warm regards,

                tf
              • Jody
                Hi thefrank, ... So, does that mean go with the cheapest and hope for the best? Happy Topics, Jody The NoteTab Off-Topic List
                Message 7 of 18 , Mar 5, 2001
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                  Hi thefrank,

                  >(...don't take any wooden motherboards...)
                  >
                  >"Decay is inherent in all compound things. Strive on with diligence"
                  >-- Sid

                  So, does that mean go with the cheapest and hope for the best?

                  Happy Topics,
                  Jody

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                • thefrank
                  Hi Jody, ... Not at all. Just a (dumb) joke to illustrate that whatever you get now will be obsolete and overpriced compared to what you can get in 6 months
                  Message 8 of 18 , Mar 5, 2001
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                    Hi Jody,

                    > So, does that mean...

                    Not at all. Just a (dumb) joke to illustrate that whatever you get
                    now will be obsolete and overpriced compared to what you can get in 6
                    months (or weeks)...but will still get the work done.

                    My AMD-K62 350 still operates faster than I do (as a fellow tabber
                    mentioned). I think the difference is the 256mb RAM (also mentioned).

                    What mb does AMD recommend for their processors? I use FIC although
                    Azuz and Abit get rave reviews. Whichever board you prefer, I suggest
                    getting a config to accommodate the most RAM. 20 bucks for another
                    slot lets you add another 256 (or better) later on, and in 6 months
                    there could be a Terrabyte (or whatever) stick available.

                    Note: A techie advised me about 4ply and 2ply RAM boards (the stick
                    the RAM chips are fastened to), saying the 2ply sticks do not
                    dissipate the heat as well and degrade faster. Pay (a little) extra
                    for RAM with a lifetime guarantee (should be 4ply). (I know, it
                    sounds like toilet paper...)

                    It sure is fun though...

                    regards,

                    tf
                  • Scott Fordin
                    So true. Buying technology is like putting your foot in a stream... The stream is always going to be rushing past, but you re just trying to get to the other
                    Message 9 of 18 , Mar 5, 2001
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                      So true. Buying technology is like putting your foot
                      in a stream... The stream is always going to be rushing
                      past, but you're just trying to get to the other side
                      (hoping to at least not drop your machine in the water
                      and electrocute yourself).

                      Well, before I torture that metaphor anymore, let me
                      just add, FWIW, that I'm currently running an AMD Athlon
                      "Thunderbird" at 1Ghz, with 256MB PC133 RAM, and an
                      NVidia GeForce 2 MX video card with 32MB RAM. I dual
                      boot between Windows 2000 Pro and Red Hat Linux 7, and
                      except for the initial trials of getting the appropriate
                      drivers for all components and both operating systems,
                      things now go swimmingly. I've long been a fan of AMD
                      -- three out of the five main machines in the house run
                      AMD: the Athlon 1Ghz, a K6-2/300 and a K6-2/500. I think
                      AMD simply provides more of the proverbial bang for the
                      proverbial buck.

                      Back to the stream for a moment: my current machine cost
                      me at least three times *less* than what I paid for my
                      Gateway 386 or Leading Edge Model "D" oh so many years
                      ago. Back when chads were chads, and nerds were really
                      nerdy...

                      Scott
                      "Resist the force before it forces you to resist."

                      At 02:14 3/6/2001 +0000, you wrote:
                      >Hi Jody,
                      >
                      > > So, does that mean...
                      >
                      >Not at all. Just a (dumb) joke to illustrate that whatever you get
                      >now will be obsolete and overpriced compared to what you can get in 6
                      >months (or weeks)...but will still get the work done.
                      >
                      >My AMD-K62 350 still operates faster than I do (as a fellow tabber
                      >mentioned). I think the difference is the 256mb RAM (also mentioned).
                      >
                      >What mb does AMD recommend for their processors? I use FIC although
                      >Azuz and Abit get rave reviews. Whichever board you prefer, I suggest
                      >getting a config to accommodate the most RAM. 20 bucks for another
                      >slot lets you add another 256 (or better) later on, and in 6 months
                      >there could be a Terrabyte (or whatever) stick available.
                      >
                      >Note: A techie advised me about 4ply and 2ply RAM boards (the stick
                      >the RAM chips are fastened to), saying the 2ply sticks do not
                      >dissipate the heat as well and degrade faster. Pay (a little) extra
                      >for RAM with a lifetime guarantee (should be 4ply). (I know, it
                      >sounds like toilet paper...)
                      >
                      >It sure is fun though...
                      >
                      >regards,
                      >
                      >tf
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • Jody
                      Hi thefrank, ... OK. ... That is the proc I have now. I put in my 256MB today from 128MB and don t see any difference just like I did not going from 64 to
                      Message 10 of 18 , Mar 5, 2001
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                        Hi thefrank,

                        >Not at all. Just a (dumb) joke to illustrate that whatever you
                        >get now will be obsolete and overpriced compared to what you can
                        >get in 6 months (or weeks)...but will still get the work done.

                        OK.

                        >My AMD-K62 350 still operates faster than I do (as a fellow
                        >tabber mentioned). I think the difference is the 256mb RAM (also
                        >mentioned).

                        That is the proc I have now. I put in my 256MB today from 128MB
                        and don't see any difference just like I did not going from 64 to
                        128MB RAM.

                        >What mb does AMD recommend for their processors? I use FIC
                        >although Azuz and Abit get rave reviews. Whichever board you
                        >prefer, I suggest getting a config to accommodate the most RAM.
                        >20 bucks for another slot lets you add another 256 (or better)
                        >later on, and in 6 months there could be a Terrabyte (or
                        >whatever) stick available.

                        So, what in the world do I need for speed? I can afford 1.1Ghz
                        and perhaps 516MB RAM and might just spend the extra bucks to get
                        the Abit or Asus. I want some speed!!! Where is my Win3.11 like
                        Sleepless was complaining about. NoteTab still takes 2-3 seconds
                        to open with the extra RAM - no difference.

                        >Pay (a little) extra for RAM with a lifetime guarantee (should be
                        >4ply). (I know, it sounds like toilet paper...)

                        hahahaha

                        Happy Topics,
                        Jody

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                      • Jody
                        Hi Scott and Jim, Thanks much for the 1.1Mhz tip Jim and Doc - that is certainly what I wanted to hear. Now I can tell the wife, but the experts say... haha.
                        Message 11 of 18 , Mar 5, 2001
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                          Hi Scott and Jim,

                          Thanks much for the 1.1Mhz tip Jim and Doc - that is certainly
                          what I wanted to hear. Now I can tell the wife, but the experts
                          say... haha.

                          >Well, before I torture that metaphor anymore, let me just add,
                          >FWIW, that I'm currently running an AMD Athlon "Thunderbird" at
                          >1Ghz, with 256MB PC133 RAM, and an NVidia GeForce 2 MX video card
                          >with 32MB RAM. I dual boot between Windows 2000 Pro and Red Hat
                          >Linux 7, and except for the initial trials of getting the
                          >appropriate drivers for all components and both operating
                          >systems, things now go swimmingly. I've long been a fan of AMD --
                          >three out of the five main machines in the house run AMD: the
                          >Athlon 1Ghz, a K6-2/300 and a K6-2/500. I think AMD simply
                          >provides more of the proverbial bang for the proverbial buck.

                          Thanks! So, I ought to fare well with a 1.0 or 1.1Ghz (five
                          stars on the 1.1), 256-528MB RAM and any half way decent MB. I'll
                          push for 528MB. Gee, I just bought a 256 stick, so I only need
                          to buy one more and leave the wife and kids with the 128MB, nice
                          guy, eh? :) I'd better get some more for them, but the problem
                          is I don't have anymore room on that/this board for more sticks.
                          They are two 64MB 166pin DIMM/SDRAM PC100 now with no extra slot.
                          I do have the shorter white slots next to them. Uh, will
                          something go in there an be compatible?

                          >Back to the stream for a moment: my current machine cost me at
                          >least three times *less* than what I paid for my Gateway 386 or
                          >Leading Edge Model "D" oh so many years ago. Back when chads were
                          >chads, and nerds were really nerdy...

                          ROFL!!! My first PC was the 486dx80 I had mentioned earlier. I
                          paid, with 14" monitor, over $800.00. For that, one can get a
                          complete screaming system today if built themselves and not a bad
                          Gateway at all with $400.00 rebate if he signs up for MSN or the
                          like totalling about $450.00 for a mid-range computer - HP stuff
                          at that. So, why am I buying an MB and proc for about the same
                          that is just a tad bit better specs than the $450.00? I will pay
                          because I want the joy of the hassles and more learning
                          experience if something should go wrong. Plus, I want complete
                          control, at least as what MS and others will give me, and as much
                          understanding of my machine as I can get. I cannot get that with
                          a ready made system and when you call tech support (after hours
                          and hours of frustration - I live for it BG) they tell you to
                          plug in the rescue CD.

                          Dual boot equals two ways of booting up; same drive or two
                          different drives? I would like to give Linux another try or
                          install WinME but will not on the same drive as Win98SE again.
                          Please reply with new topic if you do on that. tanX.

                          Happy Topics,
                          Jody

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                        • Harvey R. Savage
                          ... Hi Jody, Has anyone recommended this site, http://k7v.com. It s mostly about ASUS and AMD. Several forums to look at. You might get some ideas about
                          Message 12 of 18 , Mar 5, 2001
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                            >
                            > So, what in the world do I need for speed? I can afford 1.1Ghz
                            > and perhaps 516MB RAM and might just spend the extra bucks to get
                            > the Abit or Asus. I want some speed!!! Where is my Win3.11 like
                            > Sleepless was complaining about. NoteTab still takes 2-3 seconds
                            > to open with the extra RAM - no difference.
                            >
                            > hahahaha
                            >
                            > Happy Topics,
                            > Jody
                            >
                            Hi Jody,

                            Has anyone recommended this site, http://k7v.com It's mostly
                            about ASUS and AMD. Several forums to look at. You might get
                            some ideas about MB's and processors from there.

                            Most of the respondents are serious gamers and, or,
                            overclockers. You can catch some good info on cpu's and periphal
                            cards, and a few other things.

                            hrs
                          • Harvey R. Savage
                            ... Hi Jody, PERIPHERAL is the word I was looking for. Somehow it got past my spell checker, I don t know how. hrs
                            Message 13 of 18 , Mar 5, 2001
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                              Harvey R Savage wrote:
                              > Hi Jody,
                              >
                              > Has anyone recommended this site, http://k7v.com It's mostly
                              > about ASUS and AMD. Several forums to look at. You might get
                              > some ideas about MB's and processors from there.
                              >
                              > Most of the respondents are serious gamers and, or,
                              > overclockers. You can catch some good info on cpu's and periphal
                              > cards, and a few other things.
                              >
                              >
                              Hi Jody,

                              PERIPHERAL is the word I was looking for. Somehow it got past my
                              spell checker, I don't know how.


                              hrs
                            • thefrank
                              Hi Jody, The RAM thingy: More RAM becomes noticeable to me when I have many apps open at the same time and am doing work in all. Typically, during my work
                              Message 14 of 18 , Mar 5, 2001
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                                Hi Jody,

                                The RAM thingy:

                                More RAM becomes noticeable to me when I have many apps open at the
                                same time and am doing work in all.

                                Typically, during my work routine, I will have 2 or 3 NoteTabPros
                                (each with different filesets of 10 to 30 files, clipbooks and
                                clipbars), MSWord, Excel, Xara, WS_FTP, SecureCRT (telnet), XnView,
                                GifAnimator, and maybe 4 browsers all open and working at the same
                                time. No hiccups, no waiting. They are all loaded into, and operate
                                from RAM!

                                A (good) rule of thumb is when you have alot open and try to do
                                something, if you hear (or see: blink, blink) your hard drive getting
                                hit during your work just to process the task, then more RAM will
                                definitely help. RAM is faster, it doesn't spin and wear out (like a
                                hd), and right now its cheap.

                                Having the RAM to do the work saves wear and tear on the hd. After
                                the apps are open you should not need the hd for anything but storage.

                                The *smaller slots* thingy:

                                On one of my systems the board has 2 DIMM slots and 4 EDO SIMM slots.
                                The board book says in BOLD print to use one type or the other, but
                                NOT to mix. So...I mixed (of course) just to see. The difference I
                                noticed is that all the RAM runs at the slower (EDO) speed, which is
                                still a thousand times faster that the hd and a zillion times faster
                                than I can type. Been working fine for 2 years now...

                                regards,

                                tf
                              • Jody
                                Hi thefrank, Thanks for the link Harvey - I certainly see there is support. :) ... Uh, well, duh! What can I say. Thanks. I check my RAM quite a bit at
                                Message 15 of 18 , Mar 5, 2001
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                                  Hi thefrank,

                                  Thanks for the link Harvey - I certainly see there is support. :)

                                  >More RAM becomes noticeable to me when I have many apps open at the
                                  >same time and am doing work in all.
                                  >Having the RAM to do the work saves wear and tear on the hd.
                                  >After the apps are open you should not need the hd for anything
                                  >but storage.

                                  Uh, well, duh! What can I say. Thanks. I check my RAM quite a
                                  bit at times especially when running slow and know exactly what
                                  you are talking about. I use a small utility called AppBar
                                  (freeware) that I keep on top in autohide. I use it to launch
                                  programs with. It is completely configurable and is nothing more
                                  than a menu bar. You make your main menu: Apps, Image, Browsers,
                                  Fookes, etc. and then underneath them you add your programs.
                                  http://www.notetab.net/zip/appbar.zip Anyway, it has a resource
                                  meter on it.

                                  >The *smaller slots* thingy:
                                  >
                                  >On one of my systems the board has 2 DIMM slots and 4 EDO SIMM
                                  >slots. The board book says in BOLD print to use one type or the
                                  >other, but NOT to mix. So...I mixed (of course) just to see. The
                                  >difference I noticed is that all the RAM runs at the slower (EDO)
                                  >speed, which is still a thousand times faster that the hd and a
                                  >zillion times faster than I can type. Been working fine for 2
                                  >years now...

                                  Hey, hey - my kind of guy! <bg> I figured it was one or the other,
                                  but too lazy to pull out the specs.

                                  Happy Topics,
                                  Jody

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                                • Scott Fordin
                                  ... PartitionMagic and BootMagic do all the, er, magic for me. I ve had it configured both ways: both operating systems in their own partitions on the same
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Mar 5, 2001
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                                    At 22:03 3/5/2001 -0600, you wrote:
                                    >Dual boot equals two ways of booting up; same drive or two
                                    >different drives? I would like to give Linux another try or
                                    >install WinME but will not on the same drive as Win98SE again.
                                    >Please reply with new topic if you do on that. tanX.

                                    PartitionMagic and BootMagic do all the, er, magic for me.
                                    I've had it configured both ways: both operating systems
                                    in their own partitions on the same drive or, currently,
                                    W2K on one drive and Linux on the other. In all cases, both
                                    operating systems are accessing both drives. I use the same
                                    data directories for everything. For a while I was *triple*
                                    booting between Windows 98, NT 4.0, and Caldera Linux, each
                                    in its own partition. The main catch is that each operating
                                    system can be picky in terms of where its boot loader is
                                    installed on the disk. The good news is that PartitionMagic
                                    handles all of this nastiness with aplomb.

                                    BTW, from everything I've read, I would avoid WinME like the
                                    plague. Go right to Win2K instead (but buy Win2K at auction
                                    or suchlike to get a good price).

                                    Scott
                                  • Jody
                                    Hi Scott, Thanks for the info. I couldn t even get PQMagic to read my drives when I tried installing Linux. I had more headaches with that Mandrake 4.72 load
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Mar 6, 2001
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                                      Hi Scott,

                                      Thanks for the info. I couldn't even get PQMagic to read my
                                      drives when I tried installing Linux. I had more headaches with
                                      that Mandrake 4.72 load than 5 years of PC'n and don't wish that
                                      on anybody. It will probably be a very long time till I try
                                      installing it again and then it will be on its own drive. I
                                      think I agree with you about WinME, but then I heard Win2000 is a
                                      bit hard to get going and harder to use. I'm pretty happy with
                                      Win98SE so might just hang around till I'm forced by the industry
                                      changes to upgrade.

                                      >At 22:03 3/5/2001 -0600, you wrote:
                                      >>Dual boot equals two ways of booting up; same drive or two
                                      >>different drives? I would like to give Linux another try or
                                      >>install WinME but will not on the same drive as Win98SE again.
                                      >>Please reply with new topic if you do on that. tanX.
                                      >
                                      >PartitionMagic and BootMagic do all the, er, magic for me. I've
                                      >had it configured both ways: both operating systems in their own
                                      >partitions on the same drive or, currently, W2K on one drive and
                                      >Linux on the other. In all cases, both operating systems are
                                      >accessing both drives. I use the same data directories for
                                      >everything. For a while I was *triple* booting between Windows
                                      >98, NT 4.0, and Caldera Linux, each in its own partition. The
                                      >main catch is that each operating system can be picky in terms of
                                      >where its boot loader is installed on the disk. The good news is
                                      >that PartitionMagic handles all of this nastiness with aplomb.
                                      >
                                      >BTW, from everything I've read, I would avoid WinME like the
                                      >plague. Go right to Win2K instead (but buy Win2K at auction or
                                      >suchlike to get a good price).


                                      Happy Topics,
                                      Jody

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