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  • tlhackque
    The wiki HowTo force power always on (name is not longer descriptive, but c est la guerre) article has been updated with my solution. Thanks to Rod for
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 27, 2005
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      The wiki HowTo force power always on (name is not longer descriptive,
      but c'est la guerre) article has been updated with my solution.

      Thanks to Rod for uploading the files. As those of you interested in
      the subject will see, I needed them to provide a decent description.
      Sorry about the delay.

      I hope others find it useful.

      Enjoy.

      --tlhackque

      ---------------------------------------------------------
      This communication may not represent my employer's views,
      if any, on the matters discussed.
    • Jim Tucker
      ... Here s a naive suggestion that is (sort of) related to this thread. I have little desire (and even less ability) to open up my slug and do hardware
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 27, 2005
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        On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:43:48 -0000, tlhackque <tlhackque@...> wrote:
        > The wiki HowTo force power always on (name is not longer descriptive,
        > but c'est la guerre) article has been updated with my solution.

        Here's a naive suggestion that is (sort of) related to this thread. I
        have little desire (and even less ability) to open up my slug and do
        hardware modifications. However, I do want my slug to come back on
        line automatically after a power outage.

        My solution was to buy a $50 (CAD) UPS backup unit and plug the slug
        into it. My theory (yet to be tested empirically) is that the UPS
        should be able to keep the slug ticking for at least several hours,
        since it was meant to keep a desktop PC and monitor running for at
        least 10 or 15 minutes, and since the slug draws a small fraction of
        the power that a real PC does.

        Has anyone else tried something like this? Can anyone think of a good
        reason why this will (or will not) work? My router, the slug's HDD,
        etc. will all come back on line by themselves when power returns, so
        this solution is meant to keep the slug chugging until it can
        rediscover the hard drive and continue working.

        Of course, I don't expect this solution to work through a very long
        power outage, but I cannot remember a power outage in our
        neighbourhood lasting more than a few hours in the twelve years that
        we have lived here.
      • Jon Pounder
        The way I look at it, the less things I have to go around and reset after a power outage the better. some other things to think about : Are you aware most
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 27, 2005
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          The way I look at it, the less things I have to go around and reset after
          a power outage the better.


          some other things to think about :

          Are you aware most cheap ups's just crowbar themselves off when faced with
          a sustained power surge ? They have no facility for boost and trim, only
          line or battery modes, and their control and charging circuits can't
          handle a sustained line overvoltage so they just let the fuse pop, end of
          story. Others have a breaker or thermister that will reset and try again
          later on its own.

          A very good reason you might want to have a computer turn on when power is
          applied is when all else fails you can signal your ups remotely to cycle
          power to reset a crashed machine. Another reason is when the ups batteries
          are needing replacement, battery tests (which might be scheduled to happen
          automatically), often accidentally kick off the power.

          That 20min ups might also only be good for a few seconds with weak batteries.

          It depends what the slug is doing - is it serving mp3's whose loss might
          be mildly annoying after a power failure until reset, or is it actually
          running something that is semi-critical, and which you might not be there
          to reset it ? Is anyone going to be there to reset it ?, that is probably
          the biggest factor right there.


          >
          > On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:43:48 -0000, tlhackque <tlhackque@...> wrote:
          >> The wiki HowTo force power always on (name is not longer descriptive,
          >> but c'est la guerre) article has been updated with my solution.
          >
          > Here's a naive suggestion that is (sort of) related to this thread. I
          > have little desire (and even less ability) to open up my slug and do
          > hardware modifications. However, I do want my slug to come back on
          > line automatically after a power outage.
          >
          > My solution was to buy a $50 (CAD) UPS backup unit and plug the slug
          > into it. My theory (yet to be tested empirically) is that the UPS
          > should be able to keep the slug ticking for at least several hours,
          > since it was meant to keep a desktop PC and monitor running for at
          > least 10 or 15 minutes, and since the slug draws a small fraction of
          > the power that a real PC does.
          >
          > Has anyone else tried something like this? Can anyone think of a good
          > reason why this will (or will not) work? My router, the slug's HDD,
          > etc. will all come back on line by themselves when power returns, so
          > this solution is meant to keep the slug chugging until it can
          > rediscover the hard drive and continue working.
          >
          > Of course, I don't expect this solution to work through a very long
          > power outage, but I cannot remember a power outage in our
          > neighbourhood lasting more than a few hours in the twelve years that
          > we have lived here.
          >
          >
          > [ Moderator Note: All static information is slowly moving to the Wiki at
          > http://www.nslu2-linux.org ]
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


          Jon Pounder

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          Inline Internet Systems Inc.
          Thorold, Ontario, Canada

          Tools to Power Your e-Business Solutions
          www.inline.net
          www.ihtml.com
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        • Rick Huang
          I strongly suggest that you actually test the entire setup and time the amount of time your UPS can stay up. It is true that slug does not take much power to
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 28, 2005
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            I strongly suggest that you actually test the entire setup and time the
            amount of time your UPS can stay up. It is true that slug does not take
            much power to run (Last time I tested was around 5W), but UPS is very
            inefficient, even without load, it suck up around 12W of power.

            I currently have a similar setup where I have a 400VA UPS with 12V 7AH
            battery attached to my router and modem, the amount of time it stays up
            is around 40min. The battery has capacity of (12 x 7) 84 WH, if the UPS
            is 100% efficient, it should run the setup for 5 hours (15W total load
            from router and modem), but reality is not even close to that.

            Jim Tucker wrote:

            > On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:43:48 -0000, tlhackque <tlhackque@...> wrote:
            > > The wiki HowTo force power always on (name is not longer descriptive,
            > > but c'est la guerre) article has been updated with my solution.
            >
            > Here's a naive suggestion that is (sort of) related to this thread. I
            > have little desire (and even less ability) to open up my slug and do
            > hardware modifications. However, I do want my slug to come back on
            > line automatically after a power outage.
            >
            > My solution was to buy a $50 (CAD) UPS backup unit and plug the slug
            > into it. My theory (yet to be tested empirically) is that the UPS
            > should be able to keep the slug ticking for at least several hours,
            > since it was meant to keep a desktop PC and monitor running for at
            > least 10 or 15 minutes, and since the slug draws a small fraction of
            > the power that a real PC does.
            >
            > Has anyone else tried something like this? Can anyone think of a good
            > reason why this will (or will not) work? My router, the slug's HDD,
            > etc. will all come back on line by themselves when power returns, so
            > this solution is meant to keep the slug chugging until it can
            > rediscover the hard drive and continue working.
            >
            > Of course, I don't expect this solution to work through a very long
            > power outage, but I cannot remember a power outage in our
            > neighbourhood lasting more than a few hours in the twelve years that
            > we have lived here.
          • John Bowler
            From: Rick Huang [mailto:rhuang@newsguy.com] ... But it doesn t really help - how long is a power outage? ;-) I.e. knowing that the UPS will stay up for
            Message 5 of 8 , Feb 28, 2005
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              From: Rick Huang [mailto:rhuang@...]
              >I strongly suggest that you actually test the entire setup and time the
              >amount of time your UPS can stay up.

              But it doesn't really help - how long is a power outage? ;-)

              I.e. knowing that the UPS will stay up for 4hours 33.5minutes is no help at
              all 4 1/2 hours into a power outage.

              Most of the power supply problems I see are less than 1 second. Sometimes,
              but not always, that's long enough to reset some or other piece of
              equipment. So I use the UPS to stop this happening, but if the power is out
              for 15 minutes I assume that the UPS won't be sufficient. At this point all
              I need is enough power to shut everything down safely. (In fact the APS UPS
              came with Linux support, so the shutdown can be automated, unfortunately the
              driver needs a 2.6 kernel so I haven't done it yet...)

              Now auto power on might be convenient but a UPS is still essential unless
              you are absolutely confident that pulling the power on every file system
              (jffs2, ext2, ext3, nfs, samba/cifs) is absolutely safe. I'm fairly
              confident about journalled file systems (jffs2, ext3) and network file
              systems have to be robust anyway because of network failures, but I still
              want a controlled shutdown 'cause I'm not that confident.

              So my conclusion is that I have to have a UPS and the auto power on is just
              icing on the cake.

              One thing that *would* be nice though is to run everything off battery - all
              the PSUs are 5V or 12V, it seems pointless and highly inefficient to convert
              the UPS 6V or 12V to 120V then back to 12/5.

              John Bowler <jbowler@...>
            • Voight
              ... Were did you get it?
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 1, 2005
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                > (In fact the APS UPS came with Linux support, so the shutdown can be
                > automated, unfortunately the driver needs a 2.6 kernel so I haven't done it
                > yet...)

                Were did you get it?
              • Jon Pounder
                ... check the NUT project for linux, there are drivers for lots of ups s. some ups s also have snmp built in or support an add on box that handles it via their
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 1, 2005
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                  >
                  >> (In fact the APS UPS came with Linux support, so the shutdown can be
                  >> automated, unfortunately the driver needs a 2.6 kernel so I haven't done
                  >> it
                  >> yet...)
                  >
                  > Were did you get it?

                  check the NUT project for linux, there are drivers for lots of ups's.
                  some ups's also have snmp built in or support an add on box that handles
                  it via their serial port. (circuitry is actually very similar to a slug)

                  I am interested in porting netsnmp to the slug but just havn't got to it
                  yet. If no one else has got to it yet, I expect to have a bunch of time
                  available end of April/May timeframe so will work on that then. It should
                  be a pretty straightforward port though.


                  >
                  >
                  > [ Moderator Note: All static information is slowly moving to the Wiki at
                  > http://www.nslu2-linux.org ]
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  Jon Pounder

                  _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/
                  _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/_/
                  _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/
                  _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/


                  Inline Internet Systems Inc.
                  Thorold, Ontario, Canada

                  Tools to Power Your e-Business Solutions
                  www.inline.net
                  www.ihtml.com
                  www.ihtmlmerchant.com
                  www.opayc.com
                • John Bowler
                  From: Voight [mailto:voights@adelphia.net] ... it ... I meant the APC UPS - APC back-ups XS1500 (www.apc.com) but that doesn t mention an XS1500 - I think
                  Message 8 of 8 , Mar 1, 2005
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                    From: Voight [mailto:voights@...]
                    >jbowler:
                    >> (In fact the APS UPS came with Linux support, so the shutdown can be
                    >> automated, unfortunately the driver needs a 2.6 kernel so I haven't done
                    it
                    >> yet...)
                    >
                    >Were did you get it?

                    I meant 'the APC UPS' - APC back-ups XS1500 (www.apc.com) but that doesn't
                    mention an XS1500 - I think it's actually a BR1500.

                    I used a Belkin 1200VA UPS before, the controller board seems to have failed
                    on it (definately not the battery!) I guess it worked for a couple of
                    years... (I do have a leviton surge protector at the main power
                    distribution panel.)

                    Both the Belkin and the APC have USB interfaces. I got the Linux drivers
                    from the APC web site. The supplied software is Windows/SNMP stuff in both
                    cases, but the APC web site claims their PowerChute software supports Linux.

                    It seems logical to me to plug the UPS into a slug - the disk server is the
                    most important thing to protect and the slug should be able to handle SNMP
                    for the other clients. Since the slug supports USB this seems ideal.

                    John Bowler <jbowler@...>
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