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Re: [nslu2-linux] Re: Low power / quiet drive

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  • Mike Westerhof
    ... Exactly right! But not a single comment on the solution that allows one to use RAID for the rootfs. So, is it worth continuing to support RAID in SlugOS?
    Message 1 of 25 , Jan 6, 2011
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      M.J. Johnson wrote:
      > The amount of discussion this topic has generated is astounding.
      > Many of the messages have debated the merits and shortcomings of solid
      > state vs. microdrives. Bottom line: all drives fail. ALL. ("On a
      > long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.")
      > Which leaves you with a mitigation strategy (RAID or some kind of
      > failover) or a backup strategy.

      Exactly right!

      But not a single comment on the solution that allows one to use RAID for
      the rootfs.

      So, is it worth continuing to support RAID in SlugOS? I ask because I'm
      currently struggling to fit stuff into the next SlugOS release, and
      something needs to be tossed...

      -Mike (mwester)
    • stanley_p_miller_qaz
      ... For me RAID is not of interest, I m looking at low power 24x7 operation and it is easy for me to make backups of my slug to another higher power system and
      Message 2 of 25 , Jan 6, 2011
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        --- In nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com, Mike Westerhof <mwester@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Exactly right!
        >
        > But not a single comment on the solution that allows one to use RAID for
        > the rootfs.
        >
        > So, is it worth continuing to support RAID in SlugOS? I ask because I'm
        > currently struggling to fit stuff into the next SlugOS release, and
        > something needs to be tossed...
        >
        > -Mike (mwester)
        >

        For me RAID is not of interest, I'm looking at low power 24x7 operation and it is easy for me to make backups of my slug to another higher power system and keep the slug's power budget low.

        What are the other options on what should stay/go for the next version?
      • jon pounder
        ... I have to agree on this one - if I am going to start doing raid etc., its not going to be on a device without a console, if my data is that important, I
        Message 3 of 25 , Jan 6, 2011
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          On 01/06/2011 12:49 PM, stanley_p_miller_qaz wrote:
          > --- In nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com, Mike Westerhof<mwester@...> wrote:
          >>
          >> Exactly right!
          >>
          >> But not a single comment on the solution that allows one to use RAID for
          >> the rootfs.
          >>
          >> So, is it worth continuing to support RAID in SlugOS? I ask because I'm
          >> currently struggling to fit stuff into the next SlugOS release, and
          >> something needs to be tossed...
          >>
          >> -Mike (mwester)
          >>
          > For me RAID is not of interest, I'm looking at low power 24x7 operation and it is easy for me to make backups of my slug to another higher power system and keep the slug's power budget low.

          I have to agree on this one - if I am going to start doing raid etc.,
          its not going to be on a device without a console, if my data is that
          important, I want to be able to get in there when I have to to fix
          things and bring it back from the dead. My preference is always where
          possible a generic boot system that can be replaced completely, and the
          data on raid drives that could be put in a completely new system and
          brought back to life if necessary. I don't see the nslu2 as fitting the
          bill for this at all - its niche is a low power solution thats pretty
          much disposable when it breaks, and focus should be on backup of
          whatever matters, and ease of just dumping it back into new hardware
          when needed.




          > What are the other options on what should stay/go for the next version?
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Stephen Miller
          I have been running one-wire for 5 years now on OpenSlug 2.7 using a 30G drive out of my old laptop. No special treatment at all. I have had owwnogui hang,
          Message 4 of 25 , Jan 6, 2011
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            I have been running one-wire for 5 years now on OpenSlug 2.7 using a 30G
            drive out of my old laptop. No special treatment at all. I have had
            owwnogui hang, usually due to the barometric sensor, but it all works.
            Last year I finally put it on a UPS after giving up on solar power and
            have consistently gotten 3 month uptimes (119 days, this run). I have
            rebuilt the power supply of course (maybe twice). A storage drive is a
            Maxtor 3.5" 160G one that spins down and it works fine too.

            Also, I have never actually had a USB stick fail. I have a second slug
            with a USB stick soldered directly to one of the unused internal ports.
            It works fine too. I have also tried to kill a CF by writing blocks
            repeatedly for days; something like approximately 16 million writes if I
            remember. I got bored with it after about 4 days. I still use that same
            CF card for my work. It was a Sandisk unit and I have a lot of respect
            for their products.

            It seems to me that this discussion is creating the impression that the
            storage devices cannot be trusted but my experience is otherwise. I see
            no reason to put RAID into the firmware and if you are that concerned
            about your data, perhaps the slug is a poor choice. There are backup
            solutions that are a better choice IMO. Since almost all slug hardware
            problems are due to power issues, I think any concern should start there.

            Steve




            On 11-01-06 8:22 AM, Mike Westerhof wrote:
            > M.J. Johnson wrote:
            >> The amount of discussion this topic has generated is astounding.
            >> Many of the messages have debated the merits and shortcomings of solid
            >> state vs. microdrives. Bottom line: all drives fail. ALL. ("On a
            >> long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.")
            >> Which leaves you with a mitigation strategy (RAID or some kind of
            >> failover) or a backup strategy.
            > Exactly right!
            >
            > But not a single comment on the solution that allows one to use RAID for
            > the rootfs.
            >
            > So, is it worth continuing to support RAID in SlugOS? I ask because I'm
            > currently struggling to fit stuff into the next SlugOS release, and
            > something needs to be tossed...
            >
            > -Mike (mwester)
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • dystopianrebel
            ... Terribly sorry, I thought this was a discussion group. I ll amend my behaviour... after the next two lines. (o: It is possible to find Hitachi microdrives
            Message 5 of 25 , Jan 6, 2011
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              --- In nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com, "M.J. Johnson" <threeeyedtoad@...> wrote:
              >
              > The amount of discussion this topic has generated is astounding.

              Terribly sorry, I thought this was a discussion group. I'll amend my behaviour... after the next two lines. (o:

              It is possible to find Hitachi microdrives for a fraction of the cost that you cite.

              In the end, the cheapness of Flash memory is both its advantage and its disadvantage.
            • Robert Vassar
              FWIW - I have been running a NSLU2 on flash thumb drives for years. I use mine as a a kind of network watchdog & utility server. It lives in a neglected
              Message 6 of 25 , Jan 7, 2011
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                FWIW - I have been running a NSLU2 on flash thumb drives for years.  I use mine as a a kind of network watchdog & utility server.  It lives in a neglected corner running simple scripts and cron jobs, BIND (I have a split-horizon zone), etc... The first drive, a brand name 1Gb stick, lasted ~1 year and then failed very suddenly.  It gave no warning at all, and just suddenly stopped working.   If any errors were logged they were lost, as the device became completely unreadable.  I've been running on a cheap no name 512mb stick that I found too small for desktop use for more than 2 years now.  I do use the "noatime" mount option and run without swap.  


                My guess is a new / modern 4 - 32Gb will likely outlast any remaining usefulness in the NSLU2.  


                Rob


                On Jan 1, 2011, at 7:59 PM, Doug wrote:

                 

                I wonder what the groups experience has been with low power drives under Linux
                on the nslu2? I see there are a lot of complaints about the WD Cavier Green
                drives but others seem to have no problems. I want a drive that runs cool, draws
                less power, and does not require a cooling fan. 64G would be fine but I know
                that 500G is probably a minimum now days.

                I am also interested in experiences with flash drives. I would go that route but
                the uncertainty of write cycle life leaves me a little concerned. I can remember
                way back when 10K writes was the norm life, then 100K, 1M, 10M but just what
                is the write life of these 8-64G USB sticks now and are some better than
                others? I know you can do things to extend the life but what have real
                experiences been? Has anyone "burned" one of these useless on an nslu2?

                Doug Crompton
                WA3DSP
                www.crompton.com


              • d0nv
                FYI as a data point, mine is still running on the original 512MB PNY Attache drive installed in November 2006. It served as my sole CUPS print server up until
                Message 7 of 25 , Jan 8, 2011
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                  FYI as a data point, mine is still running on the original 512MB PNY Attache drive installed in November 2006. It served as my sole CUPS print server up until last year, then primarily small scale NAS duty only until the recent conversion to a dedicated 1-wire network controller.

                  I did the .ext3flash approach to minimize wear from day 1.

                  --- In nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com, Robert Vassar <rvassar@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > FWIW - I have been running a NSLU2 on flash thumb drives for years.
                  > I use mine as a a kind of network watchdog & utility server. It
                  > lives in a neglected corner running simple scripts and cron jobs,
                  > BIND (I have a split-horizon zone), etc... The first drive, a brand
                  > name 1Gb stick, lasted ~1 year and then failed very suddenly. It
                  > gave no warning at all, and just suddenly stopped working. If any
                  > errors were logged they were lost, as the device became completely
                  > unreadable. I've been running on a cheap no name 512mb stick that I
                  > found too small for desktop use for more than 2 years now. I do use
                  > the "noatime" mount option and run without swap.
                  >
                  >
                  > My guess is a new / modern 4 - 32Gb will likely outlast any remaining
                  > usefulness in the NSLU2.
                  >
                  >
                  > Rob
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