Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [nslu2-linux] DST change

Expand Messages
  • Steve Bennett
    I am running debian sid, installed about a year ago (uptime 329 days!). To install the latest timezone data, this seems to have done the trick: # apt-get
    Message 1 of 25 , Feb 2, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      I am running debian sid, installed about a year ago (uptime 329 days!).

      To install the latest timezone data, this seems to have done the trick:
      # apt-get update
      # apt-get install tzdata

      Cheers,
      Steve

      On 03/02/2007, at 5:29 AM, Brian Wood wrote:

      >
      >
      > On Feb 2, 2007, at 9:58 AM, Mr Doug - wrote:
      >
      >> The Daylight Saving TIme rules have changed and this year in the
      >> US (for the
      >> most part) DST will change on March 11. Many OSes as well as
      >> firmware devices
      >> will be effected by this change. Are there any updates for the
      >> NSLU2 regarding
      >> this?
      >
      >
      >>
      >
      >
      > You didn't mention what firmware you were running, but I can give
      > you some general info. I'm running Debian on a test slug and have
      > discovered the following:
      >
      > The first thing to do is figure out if your tzdata is up to date, run:
      >
      > date --date="Mar 11 15:00:00 UTC 2007"
      >
      > Your system will respond with what it thinks the date/time should
      > be then. If the response indicates daylight savings time (ie: EDT,
      > CDT, MDT etc.) then your timezone data is up to date and reflects
      > the latest screwing around by the US government.
      >
      > If the response is a standard time indication (EST, CST, MST etc.)
      > then your timezone data needs to be updated to account for the
      > recent changes, by updating your "tzdata" or whatever your
      > particular system is using to determine the time offset from GMT
      > (UCT). For OpenSlug this is /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/<city
      > name>. It's the "tzdata" for Debian systems.
      >
      > I'm not sure how UnSlung deals with this as I don't run it.
      >
      > Wish I could me more help but that's what I know at this point.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Mr Doug -
      No Package by that name exists for the ipkg method under unslung. Could one be created? Or is there another way to update for the unslung? Doug ...
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 2, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        No Package by that name exists for the ipkg method under unslung.
        Could one be created? Or is there another way to update for the unslung?

        Doug

        --- Steve Bennett <steveb+nslu2@...> wrote:

        > I am running debian sid, installed about a year ago (uptime 329 days!).
        >
        > To install the latest timezone data, this seems to have done the trick:
        > # apt-get update
        > # apt-get install tzdata
        >
        > Cheers,
        > Steve
        >
        > On 03/02/2007, at 5:29 AM, Brian Wood wrote:
        >
        > >
        > >
        > > On Feb 2, 2007, at 9:58 AM, Mr Doug - wrote:
        > >
        > >> The Daylight Saving TIme rules have changed and this year in the
        > >> US (for the
        > >> most part) DST will change on March 11. Many OSes as well as
        > >> firmware devices
        > >> will be effected by this change. Are there any updates for the
        > >> NSLU2 regarding
        > >> this?
        > >
        > >
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > > You didn't mention what firmware you were running, but I can give
        > > you some general info. I'm running Debian on a test slug and have
        > > discovered the following:
        > >
        > > The first thing to do is figure out if your tzdata is up to date, run:
        > >
        > > date --date="Mar 11 15:00:00 UTC 2007"
        > >
        > > Your system will respond with what it thinks the date/time should
        > > be then. If the response indicates daylight savings time (ie: EDT,
        > > CDT, MDT etc.) then your timezone data is up to date and reflects
        > > the latest screwing around by the US government.
        > >
        > > If the response is a standard time indication (EST, CST, MST etc.)
        > > then your timezone data needs to be updated to account for the
        > > recent changes, by updating your "tzdata" or whatever your
        > > particular system is using to determine the time offset from GMT
        > > (UCT). For OpenSlug this is /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/<city
        > > name>. It's the "tzdata" for Debian systems.
        > >
        > > I'm not sure how UnSlung deals with this as I don't run it.
        > >
        > > Wish I could me more help but that's what I know at this point.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >




        ____________________________________________________________________________________
        Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know.
        Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com
      • Mike (mwester)
        Always something... and if it isn t technology or new functionality, it s the government trying to improve our lives... Off the top of my head I don t know
        Message 3 of 25 , Feb 2, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Always something... and if it isn't technology or new functionality, it's
          the government trying to "improve" our lives...

          Off the top of my head I don't know where/how Unslung manages the DST change
          data. I'll add this as an item for investigation, and, um -- submit it to
          one of the Unslung developers for further examination ;)

          (I don't suppose anyone can claim a tax credit for the effort involved in
          fixing something that's only broken because of the meddling of the US
          Government, can they? Good grief, you'd think the politicians have better
          things to do than mess up the clocks for thousands upon thousands of
          otherwise perfectly functional embedded devices and computers...)

          **mutter*mutter**grumble*grumble**

          Mike (mwester)

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Mr Doug -" <dsc3507@...>
          To: <nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:20 PM
          Subject: Re: [nslu2-linux] DST change


          > No Package by that name exists for the ipkg method under unslung.
          > Could one be created? Or is there another way to update for the unslung?
          >
          > Doug
        • Brian Wood
          ... Coul couldn t have put it better myself. Perhaps we can thank King George II ? But didn t Australia just change the DST rules there as well?
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 2, 2007
          • 0 Attachment

            On Feb 2, 2007, at 11:36 PM, Mike ((mwester)) wrote:

            Always something... and if it isn't technology or new functionality, it's
            the government trying to "improve" our lives...

            Off the top of my head I don't know where/how Unslung manages the DST change
            data. I'll add this as an item for investigation, and, um -- submit it to
            one of the Unslung developers for further examination ;)

            (I don't suppose anyone can claim a tax credit for the effort involved in
            fixing something that's only broken because of the meddling of the US
            Government, can they? Good grief, you'd think the politicians have better
            things to do than mess up the clocks for thousands upon thousands of
            otherwise perfectly functional embedded devices and computers...)

            **mutter*mutter**grumble*grumble**



















            Coul couldn't have put it better myself. Perhaps we can thank King George II ? 

            But didn't Australia just change the DST rules there as well?








          • Brian Wood
            ... OK, that s fine for debian. I have a mail server running OpenSlug 2.7. I really don t want to mess with it because it s running just fine, but: date -d
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 2, 2007
            • 0 Attachment

              On Feb 2, 2007, at 6:58 PM, Steve Bennett wrote:

              I am running debian sid, installed about a year ago (uptime 329 days!).

              To install the latest timezone data, this seems to have done the trick:
              # apt-get update
              # apt-get install tzdata

              Cheers,
              Steve




              .
               






              OK, that's fine for debian.

              I have a mail server running  OpenSlug 2.7. I really don't want to mess with it because it's running just fine, but:

              date -d 031115002007

              Indicates that it thinks that date is MST, not MDT which it should be after the governments latest "improvement" to things.

              I did ipkg update, after which I tried ipkg install timezones and ipkg install timezones-america. The system says that both packages are up to date.

              I realize that 2.7 is out of date, and is a beta to boot, but as I said I really hate to have to mess with something that's working fine just because the govt has "helped" me.

              Is there going to be some update to these openslug packages? Do I have to grab a package from a newer openslug? I'm guessing I'm not the only one with this problem. The other problem is that this little box is my main NTP server for the house as well as a pop/imap smtp box.

              Should I just move to Arizona? (they don't have DST).
            • Adam Baker
              ... Unslung keeps the timezone data in /usr/zoneinfo/ That data is generated by the firmware build process when it builds glibc-2.2.5 The zoneinfo data is
              Message 6 of 25 , Feb 3, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Mike (mwester <mwester@...> writes:

                > Off the top of my head I don't know where/how Unslung manages the DST change
                > data. I'll add this as an item for investigation, and, um -- submit it to
                > one of the Unslung developers for further examination ;)
                >

                Unslung keeps the timezone data in /usr/zoneinfo/ That data is generated by the
                firmware build process when it builds glibc-2.2.5 The zoneinfo data is endian
                dependent so you can't just copy the files from another machine. If you have
                built the unslung firmware source there is a copy of the zomeinfo compiler at

                unslung/tmp/work/glibc-2.2.5-r5/build-armeb-linux/timezone/zic

                which you could use to compile a fixed copy of the zone data.

                Because this is part of the firmware it can't easily be fixed with ipkg.
              • Mr Doug -
                Well this obviously is going to be a problem. There probably should be a WIKI on the procedure or maybe a IPKG that would download the required files,
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 3, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Well this obviously is going to be a problem. There probably should be a WIKI
                  on the procedure or maybe a IPKG that would download the required files,
                  compiler, etc., do the compile, and install the resulting zone file. If that is
                  feasible.

                  This is another reason the pundits could use to put down Lionux. This obviously
                  is not as big a problem in Windows. Why does this have to be so buried in the
                  OS? It could be a simple text file that is read.

                  On August 8, 2005, President George W. Bush signed the Energy Policy Act of
                  2005. This Act changed the time change dates for Daylight Saving Time in the
                  U.S. Beginning in 2007, DST will begin on the second Sunday in March and end
                  the first Sunday in November. The Secretary of Energy will report the impact of
                  this change to Congress. Congress retains the right to resume the 2005 Daylight
                  Saving Time schedule once the Department of Energy study is complet

                  Doug


                  --- Adam Baker <slug@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > Unslung keeps the timezone data in /usr/zoneinfo/ That data is generated by
                  > the
                  > firmware build process when it builds glibc-2.2.5 The zoneinfo data is endian
                  > dependent so you can't just copy the files from another machine. If you have
                  > built the unslung firmware source there is a copy of the zomeinfo compiler at
                  >
                  > unslung/tmp/work/glibc-2.2.5-r5/build-armeb-linux/timezone/zic
                  >
                  > which you could use to compile a fixed copy of the zone data.
                  >
                  > Because this is part of the firmware it can't easily be fixed with ipkg.
                  >
                  >




                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
                  Yahoo! Music Unlimited
                  Access over 1 million songs.
                  http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
                • Brian Wood
                  This fully featured and improved message format really stinks as a real MUA has trouble dealing with it (yes, I just changed it to traditional but
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 3, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    This "fully featured" and "improved" message format really stinks as a real MUA has trouble dealing with it (yes, I just changed it to "traditional" but somehow Yahoo keeps changing it back, probably to make sure I view their ads.)

                    So please forgive the top post.

                    They are probably trying to "help" me the same way King George II has "helped" me with the DST change, which also stinks.

                    I seriously doubt that *anyone* will benefit from the DST change, another case of the government doing something without thinking through the implications (like Iraq ?).

                    So: It's not a problem with Debian. 

                    Openslug will require someone to create a new timezones-america package, whether this will happen for 2.7 is open to question right now.

                    UnSlung will require a new firmware image.

                    And: Most folks hear are running UnSlung.

                    Thanks again George.



                    On Feb 3, 2007, at 8:34 AM, Mr Doug - wrote:

                    Well this obviously is going to be a problem. There probably should be a WIKI
                    on the procedure or maybe a IPKG that would download the required files,
                    compiler, etc., do the compile, and install the resulting zone file. If that is
                    feasible.

                    This is another reason the pundits could use to put down Lionux. This obviously
                    is not as big a problem in Windows. Why does this have to be so buried in the
                    OS? It could be a simple text file that is read.

                    On August 8, 2005, President George W. Bush signed the Energy Policy Act of
                    2005. This Act changed the time change dates for Daylight Saving Time in the
                    U.S. Beginning in 2007, DST will begin on the second Sunday in March and end
                    the first Sunday in November. The Secretary of Energy will report the impact of
                    this change to Congress. Congress retains the right to resume the 2005 Daylight
                    Saving Time schedule once the Department of Energy study is complet

                    Doug

                    --- Adam Baker <slug@baker-net.org.uk> wrote:

                    >
                    > Unslung keeps the timezone data in /usr/zoneinfo/ That data is generated by
                    > the
                    > firmware build process when it builds glibc-2.2.5 The zoneinfo data is endian
                    > dependent so you can't just copy the files from another machine. If you have
                    > built the unslung firmware source there is a copy of the zomeinfo compiler at
                    >
                    > unslung/tmp/work/glibc-2.2.5-r5/build-armeb-linux/timezone/zic
                    >
                    > which you could use to compile a fixed copy of the zone data.
                    >
                    > Because this is part of the firmware it can't easily be fixed with ipkg.
                    >
                    >

                    __________________________________________________________

                    .
                     

                  • braydw
                    ... Those system using ntp should not matter. ntp should correct the time. --David
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 3, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com, Brian Wood <beww@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > This "fully featured" and "improved" message format really stinks as
                      > a real MUA has trouble dealing with it (yes, I just changed it to
                      > "traditional" but somehow Yahoo keeps changing it back, probably to
                      > make sure I view their ads.)
                      >
                      > So please forgive the top post.
                      >
                      > They are probably trying to "help" me the same way King George II has
                      > "helped" me with the DST change, which also stinks.
                      >
                      > I seriously doubt that *anyone* will benefit from the DST change,
                      > another case of the government doing something without thinking
                      > through the implications (like Iraq ?).
                      >
                      > So: It's not a problem with Debian.
                      >
                      > Openslug will require someone to create a new timezones-america
                      > package, whether this will happen for 2.7 is open to question right now.
                      >
                      > UnSlung will require a new firmware image.
                      >
                      > And: Most folks hear are running UnSlung.
                      >
                      > Thanks again George.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On Feb 3, 2007, at 8:34 AM, Mr Doug - wrote:
                      >
                      > > Well this obviously is going to be a problem. There probably should
                      > > be a WIKI
                      > > on the procedure or maybe a IPKG that would download the required
                      > > files,
                      > > compiler, etc., do the compile, and install the resulting zone
                      > > file. If that is
                      > > feasible.
                      > >
                      > > This is another reason the pundits could use to put down Lionux.
                      > > This obviously
                      > > is not as big a problem in Windows. Why does this have to be so
                      > > buried in the
                      > > OS? It could be a simple text file that is read.
                      > >
                      > > On August 8, 2005, President George W. Bush signed the Energy
                      > > Policy Act of
                      > > 2005. This Act changed the time change dates for Daylight Saving
                      > > Time in the
                      > > U.S. Beginning in 2007, DST will begin on the second Sunday in
                      > > March and end
                      > > the first Sunday in November. The Secretary of Energy will report
                      > > the impact of
                      > > this change to Congress. Congress retains the right to resume the
                      > > 2005 Daylight
                      > > Saving Time schedule once the Department of Energy study is complet
                      > >
                      > > Doug
                      > >
                      > > --- Adam Baker <slug@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Unslung keeps the timezone data in /usr/zoneinfo/ That data is
                      > > generated by
                      > > > the
                      > > > firmware build process when it builds glibc-2.2.5 The zoneinfo
                      > > data is endian
                      > > > dependent so you can't just copy the files from another machine.
                      > > If you have
                      > > > built the unslung firmware source there is a copy of the zomeinfo
                      > > compiler at
                      > > >
                      > > > unslung/tmp/work/glibc-2.2.5-r5/build-armeb-linux/timezone/zic
                      > > >
                      > > > which you could use to compile a fixed copy of the zone data.
                      > > >
                      > > > Because this is part of the firmware it can't easily be fixed
                      > > with ipkg.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > __________________________________________________________
                      > >> .
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      Those system using ntp should not matter. ntp should correct the time.

                      --David
                    • Brian Wood
                      ... I thought ntp kept the system clock (in UTC) synced correctly but had nothing to do with the offset from UTC to local time, which is the problem with the
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 3, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment

                        On Feb 3, 2007, at 10:32 AM, braydw wrote:


                        Those system using ntp should not matter. ntp should correct the time.

                        --David


                        I thought ntp kept the system clock (in UTC) synced correctly but had nothing to do with the offset from UTC to local time, which is the problem with the DST change.

                        Am I wrong here? (very possible) 
                      • Mike (mwester)
                        [snip] ... AFAIK, NTP just ensures that the local system s concept of GMT is correct -- NTP knows nothing of daylight savings time, so the local time will
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 3, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          [snip]
                          > Those system using ntp should not matter. ntp should correct the time.

                          AFAIK, NTP just ensures that the local system's concept of GMT is correct --
                          NTP knows nothing of daylight savings time, so the local time will still be
                          wrong.

                          Actually, if it were just the displayed time that was wrong, it would be
                          just an inconvenience. But it would affect cron jobs and other operations
                          that might be more sensitive. So this is something we do need to address
                          for Unslung users who would be concerned about this. It's possible, but
                          unlikely, that we'll have a new Unslung release by then -- so I think
                          perhaps a new timezone file for the Americas and a wiki article will do the
                          job. Now all we need is a volunteer to create the necessary timezone file,
                          and test the procedure.

                          Mike (mwester)
                        • Mr Doug -
                          Thanks Mike, Sorry for causing all the hopla but it looks like this is going to be a real issue when it happens. They are likening it to the 2000 event, but
                          Message 12 of 25 , Feb 3, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Thanks Mike, Sorry for causing all the hopla but it looks like this is going to
                            be a real issue when it happens. They are likening it to the 2000 event, but
                            then that turned out to be a bust. We do know however that if you do nothing
                            about this one your time will be off an hour. Wether that effects any
                            particuliar user will have to be their determination.

                            Regards, Doug

                            --- "Mike (mwester)" <mwester@...> wrote:

                            > [snip]
                            > > Those system using ntp should not matter. ntp should correct the time.
                            >
                            > AFAIK, NTP just ensures that the local system's concept of GMT is correct --
                            > NTP knows nothing of daylight savings time, so the local time will still be
                            > wrong.
                            >
                            > Actually, if it were just the displayed time that was wrong, it would be
                            > just an inconvenience. But it would affect cron jobs and other operations
                            > that might be more sensitive. So this is something we do need to address
                            > for Unslung users who would be concerned about this. It's possible, but
                            > unlikely, that we'll have a new Unslung release by then -- so I think
                            > perhaps a new timezone file for the Americas and a wiki article will do the
                            > job. Now all we need is a volunteer to create the necessary timezone file,
                            > and test the procedure.
                            >
                            > Mike (mwester)
                            >
                            >
                            >




                            ____________________________________________________________________________________
                            Don't pick lemons.
                            See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                            http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
                          • Mr Doug -
                            see... http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=0&q1=T1010301&uid=isg3T1010301&loc=en_US&cs=utf-8&cc=us&lang=en and...
                            Message 13 of 25 , Feb 3, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              see...

                              http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=0&q1=T1010301&uid=isg3T1010301&loc=en_US&cs=utf-8&cc=us&lang=en

                              and...

                              http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=518752

                              --- Brian Wood <beww@...> wrote:

                              >
                              > On Feb 3, 2007, at 10:32 AM, braydw wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Those system using ntp should not matter. ntp should correct the time.
                              > >
                              > > --David
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > I thought ntp kept the system clock (in UTC) synced correctly but had
                              > nothing to do with the offset from UTC to local time, which is the
                              > problem with the DST change.
                              >
                              > Am I wrong here? (very possible)




                              ____________________________________________________________________________________
                              No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                              with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                              http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
                            • Brian Wood
                              OK, those references seem to confirm what I thought. The timezone information needs to be updated as ntp only keeps the system clock correct for UTC and does
                              Message 14 of 25 , Feb 3, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                OK, those references seem to confirm what I thought. The timezone
                                information needs to be updated as ntp only keeps the system clock
                                correct for UTC and does nothing to correct the offset for the local
                                timezone.

                                So the questions still stand. Will there be an updated package for
                                openslug 2.7?, will I have to upgrade to 3.1? Will there be a package
                                for 3.1? Can I use a package from 3.1 on a 2.7 system?

                                Or do I have to go mucking around with a system that's working
                                perfectly well thanks to George?


                                On Feb 3, 2007, at 4:34 PM, Mr Doug - wrote:

                                > see...
                                >
                                > http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?
                                > rs=0&q1=T1010301&uid=isg3T1010301&loc=en_US&cs=utf-8&cc=us&lang=en
                                >
                                > and...
                                >
                                > http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=518752
                                >
                                > --- Brian Wood <beww@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >>
                                >> On Feb 3, 2007, at 10:32 AM, braydw wrote:
                                >>>
                                >>> Those system using ntp should not matter. ntp should correct the
                                >>> time.
                                >>>
                                >>> --David
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>
                                >> I thought ntp kept the system clock (in UTC) synced correctly but had
                                >> nothing to do with the offset from UTC to local time, which is the
                                >> problem with the DST change.
                                >>
                                >> Am I wrong here? (very possible)
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ______________________________________________________________________
                                > ______________
                                > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                                > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                                > http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Wayne Topa
                                ... This may seem like a dumb way to solve this problem, but. If the slug is connected to a system that has the correct timezone, like mine does, why not just
                                Message 15 of 25 , Feb 3, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Mr Doug -(dsc3507@...) is reported to have said:
                                  > Thanks Mike, Sorry for causing all the hopla but it looks like this is going to
                                  > be a real issue when it happens. They are likening it to the 2000 event, but
                                  > then that turned out to be a bust. We do know however that if you do nothing
                                  > about this one your time will be off an hour. Wether that effects any
                                  > particuliar user will have to be their determination.
                                  >
                                  > Regards, Doug
                                  >
                                  > --- "Mike (mwester)" <mwester@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > [snip]
                                  > > > Those system using ntp should not matter. ntp should correct the time.
                                  > >
                                  > > AFAIK, NTP just ensures that the local system's concept of GMT is correct --
                                  > > NTP knows nothing of daylight savings time, so the local time will still be
                                  > > wrong.
                                  > >
                                  > > Actually, if it were just the displayed time that was wrong, it would be
                                  > > just an inconvenience. But it would affect cron jobs and other operations
                                  > > that might be more sensitive. So this is something we do need to address
                                  > > for Unslung users who would be concerned about this. It's possible, but
                                  > > unlikely, that we'll have a new Unslung release by then -- so I think
                                  > > perhaps a new timezone file for the Americas and a wiki article will do the
                                  > > job. Now all we need is a volunteer to create the necessary timezone file,
                                  > > and test the procedure.
                                  > >
                                  > > Mike (mwester)

                                  This may seem like a dumb way to solve this problem, but. If the slug
                                  is connected to a system that has the correct timezone, like mine
                                  does, why not just install rdate on the slug? I did that instead of
                                  installing ntp on my slug and just have a cron job setting the time
                                  from my server. rdate is a much smaller package the ntp and the slug
                                  time is always synced to my server time.

                                  my 0.02 cents.

                                  Wayne

                                  --
                                  One good reason why computers can do more work than people is that they
                                  never have to stop and answer the phone.
                                  _______________________________________________________
                                • Mike (mwester)
                                  ... In general, this is a very good suggestion for devices like the slug -- running a full NTP daemon can be a less-than-ideal situation with regard to memory.
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Feb 3, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    > This may seem like a dumb way to solve this problem, but. If the slug
                                    > is connected to a system that has the correct timezone, like mine
                                    > does, why not just install rdate on the slug? I did that instead of
                                    > installing ntp on my slug and just have a cron job setting the time
                                    > from my server. rdate is a much smaller package the ntp and the slug
                                    > time is always synced to my server time.

                                    In general, this is a very good suggestion for devices like the slug --
                                    running a full NTP daemon can be a less-than-ideal situation with regard to
                                    memory. But it doesn't solve the daylight-savings time problem.

                                    What makes this such a nasty problem is that there are *two* ideas of time
                                    on Linux: GMT, which is what well-behaved applications use whenever they
                                    read/write or exchange date and time information, and there's local time,
                                    which is what humans use. For a period of time, in a matter of weeks from
                                    now, the slug will be presenting (bad) and reading (even worse!) dates
                                    incorrectly in user interactions -- we'll be entering a date/time in
                                    daylight-savings time, it will be reading it sans DST. If you attempt to
                                    fix it by "correcting" the displayed date (local time) so that it matches
                                    DST, then the internal clock will be instead be off by an hour. The
                                    problem, then, is that for this period of time (the difference between the
                                    new DST and the old DST start time), the delta between these two times will
                                    be wrong, and there's no fiddling the user can do that won't make something
                                    wrong somewhere.

                                    And to compound it further, it's not easily predictable what may be affected
                                    by this. Many folks will find nothing will happen -- at least nothing of
                                    consequence on the slug. Some will probably notice issues with cron jobs
                                    running an hour off. Log messages may be misleading. How big a deal this
                                    is just depends on what people are using the slug for.

                                    (Side note: Slug-related issues pale in comparison to the vast number of
                                    other embedded devices containing DST-aware clocks -- such as environmental
                                    controls, consumer electronics, personal organizers, etc -- that may all be
                                    confused as they attempt to exchange information... it'll probably be quite
                                    entertaining for a while (as people show up at work an hour late/early), but
                                    then become really inconvenient (as automatic security alarms arm themselves
                                    an hour early or an hour late, for example). Ah well. It'll provide the
                                    vendors of such devices a vast opportunity to sell upgrades and support
                                    contracts... ;)

                                    Mike (mwester)
                                  • Bob
                                    Is there any progress on this issue? ... From: Mike (mwester ) To: nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:[nslu2-linux] Re: DST change
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Feb 23, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Is there any progress on this issue?

                                      -------- Original Message --------
                                      From: "Mike \(mwester\)" <mwester@...>
                                      To: nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re:[nslu2-linux] Re: DST change
                                      Date: 2/3/2007 1:44 PM
                                      >
                                      > [snip]
                                      > > Those system using ntp should not matter. ntp should correct the time.
                                      >
                                      > AFAIK, NTP just ensures that the local system's concept of GMT is
                                      > correct --
                                      > NTP knows nothing of daylight savings time, so the local time will
                                      > still be
                                      > wrong.
                                      >
                                      > Actually, if it were just the displayed time that was wrong, it would be
                                      > just an inconvenience. But it would affect cron jobs and other operations
                                      > that might be more sensitive. So this is something we do need to address
                                      > for Unslung users who would be concerned about this. It's possible, but
                                      > unlikely, that we'll have a new Unslung release by then -- so I think
                                      > perhaps a new timezone file for the Americas and a wiki article will
                                      > do the
                                      > job. Now all we need is a volunteer to create the necessary timezone file,
                                      > and test the procedure.
                                      >
                                      > Mike (mwester)
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Brian Zhou
                                      For unslung, I ve created a tz package, which contains up-to-date zoneinfo. Preliminary instruction can be found
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Feb 23, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        For unslung, I've created a tz package, which contains up-to-date
                                        zoneinfo. Preliminary instruction can be found

                                        http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Profiles/BrianZhou

                                        I personally don't use linksys web interface at all, a potential
                                        problem is when you set a timezone using the web UI - that probably
                                        will overwrite /usr/local/localtime.

                                        I don't think there is a way around that other than not using that
                                        part of the web UI.

                                        -Brian Zhou

                                        --- In nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com, Bob <bobejr@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Is there any progress on this issue?
                                        >
                                        > -------- Original Message --------
                                        > From: "Mike \(mwester\)" <mwester@...>
                                        > To: nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: Re:[nslu2-linux] Re: DST change
                                        > Date: 2/3/2007 1:44 PM
                                        > >
                                        > > [snip]
                                        > > > Those system using ntp should not matter. ntp should correct the
                                        time.
                                        > >
                                        > > AFAIK, NTP just ensures that the local system's concept of GMT is
                                        > > correct --
                                        > > NTP knows nothing of daylight savings time, so the local time will
                                        > > still be
                                        > > wrong.
                                        > >
                                        > > Actually, if it were just the displayed time that was wrong, it
                                        would be
                                        > > just an inconvenience. But it would affect cron jobs and other
                                        operations
                                        > > that might be more sensitive. So this is something we do need to
                                        address
                                        > > for Unslung users who would be concerned about this. It's
                                        possible, but
                                        > > unlikely, that we'll have a new Unslung release by then -- so I think
                                        > > perhaps a new timezone file for the Americas and a wiki article will
                                        > > do the
                                        > > job. Now all we need is a volunteer to create the necessary
                                        timezone file,
                                        > > and test the procedure.
                                        > >
                                        > > Mike (mwester)
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • braydw
                                        Brian -- I have installed your tz package in a Unslung and it appears to work. I set my TZ to America/New_York. I followed your preliminary instructions and
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Feb 27, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Brian -- I have installed your tz package in a Unslung and it appears
                                          to work. I set my TZ to America/New_York.
                                          I followed your preliminary instructions and then tested it by the
                                          command:
                                          date --utc 031106592007.50 ; date ; sleep 20 ; date

                                          I am curious how this got actived by the install process. I did not
                                          reboot.
                                          Could you please explain the process to me.

                                          Thank you for your great work.
                                          --David

                                          --- In nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Zhou" <b88zhou@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > For unslung, I've created a tz package, which contains up-to-date
                                          > zoneinfo. Preliminary instruction can be found
                                          >
                                          > http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Profiles/BrianZhou
                                          >
                                          > I personally don't use linksys web interface at all, a potential
                                          > problem is when you set a timezone using the web UI - that probably
                                          > will overwrite /usr/local/localtime.
                                          >
                                          > I don't think there is a way around that other than not using that
                                          > part of the web UI.
                                          >
                                          > -Brian Zhou
                                          >
                                          > --- In nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com, Bob <bobejr@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Is there any progress on this issue?
                                          > >
                                        • Brian Zhou
                                          It is a feature of glibc to translate machine hardware time to the time zone you want. The date command uses this libc service. You can specify your localtime
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Feb 27, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            It is a feature of glibc to translate machine hardware time to the
                                            time zone you want. The date command uses this libc service. You can
                                            specify your localtime in a couple of ways:

                                            1. TZ environment variable
                                            2. /etc/localtime file in compiled zoneinfo format (zoneinfo file
                                            contains things like gmt offset, when does DST start/end for which
                                            year, what is the DST gmt offset, etc.)

                                            On unslung, /etc/localtime is a link to /usr/local/localtime. The tz
                                            package provides up-to-date compiled zoneinfo files for all the
                                            timezones, and the key step is just "cp the-right-zoneinfo
                                            /usr/local/localtime".

                                            For detail see
                                            http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/TZ-Variable.html ,
                                            especially the following paragraph:

                                            If the TZ environment variable does not have a value, the operation
                                            chooses a time zone by default. In the GNU C library, the default time
                                            zone is like the specification `TZ=:/etc/localtime' (or
                                            `TZ=:/usr/local/etc/localtime', depending on how GNU C library was
                                            configured; see Installation). Other C libraries use their own rule
                                            for choosing the default time zone, so there is little we can say
                                            about them.

                                            Regards,

                                            -Brian Zhou

                                            --- In nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com, "braydw" <braydw@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Brian -- I have installed your tz package in a Unslung and it appears
                                            > to work. I set my TZ to America/New_York.
                                            > I followed your preliminary instructions and then tested it by the
                                            > command:
                                            > date --utc 031106592007.50 ; date ; sleep 20 ; date
                                            >
                                            > I am curious how this got actived by the install process. I did not
                                            > reboot.
                                            > Could you please explain the process to me.
                                            >
                                            > Thank you for your great work.
                                            > --David
                                            >
                                            > --- In nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Zhou" <b88zhou@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > For unslung, I've created a tz package, which contains up-to-date
                                            > > zoneinfo. Preliminary instruction can be found
                                            > >
                                            > > http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Profiles/BrianZhou
                                            > >
                                            > > I personally don't use linksys web interface at all, a potential
                                            > > problem is when you set a timezone using the web UI - that probably
                                            > > will overwrite /usr/local/localtime.
                                            > >
                                            > > I don't think there is a way around that other than not using that
                                            > > part of the web UI.
                                            > >
                                            > > -Brian Zhou
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com, Bob <bobejr@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Is there any progress on this issue?
                                            > > >
                                            >
                                          • Mr Doug -
                                            Yes the package works great. Not sure what your test method is but you only have to do the following to test - date --date= Mar 11 15:00:00 UTC 2007 If it
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Feb 27, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Yes the package works great. Not sure what your test method is but you only
                                              have to do the following to test -

                                              date --date="Mar 11 15:00:00 UTC 2007"

                                              If it reads EDT (or your local zone daylight savings) then it is working.

                                              Sun Mar 11 11:00:00 EDT 2007

                                              --- braydw <braydw@...> wrote:

                                              > Brian -- I have installed your tz package in a Unslung and it appears
                                              > to work. I set my TZ to America/New_York.
                                              > I followed your preliminary instructions and then tested it by the
                                              > command:
                                              > date --utc 031106592007.50 ; date ; sleep 20 ; date
                                              >
                                              > I am curious how this got actived by the install process. I did not
                                              > reboot.
                                              > Could you please explain the process to me.
                                              >
                                              > Thank you for your great work.
                                              > --David
                                              >
                                              > --- In nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Zhou" <b88zhou@...> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > For unslung, I've created a tz package, which contains up-to-date
                                              > > zoneinfo. Preliminary instruction can be found
                                              > >
                                              > > http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Profiles/BrianZhou
                                              > >
                                              > > I personally don't use linksys web interface at all, a potential
                                              > > problem is when you set a timezone using the web UI - that probably
                                              > > will overwrite /usr/local/localtime.
                                              > >
                                              > > I don't think there is a way around that other than not using that
                                              > > part of the web UI.
                                              > >
                                              > > -Brian Zhou
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com, Bob <bobejr@> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Is there any progress on this issue?
                                              > > >
                                              >
                                              >




                                              ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                              We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                              (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                              http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
                                            • Brian Zhou
                                              http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Unslung/TimeZoneUpdate More than two people have tested the procedure and it is working. -Brian Zhou ... time. ... would be ...
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Feb 27, 2007
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Unslung/TimeZoneUpdate

                                                More than two people have tested the procedure and it is working.

                                                -Brian Zhou

                                                --- In nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com, Bob <bobejr@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Is there any progress on this issue?
                                                >
                                                > -------- Original Message --------
                                                > From: "Mike \(mwester\)" <mwester@...>
                                                > To: nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Subject: Re:[nslu2-linux] Re: DST change
                                                > Date: 2/3/2007 1:44 PM
                                                > >
                                                > > [snip]
                                                > > > Those system using ntp should not matter. ntp should correct the
                                                time.
                                                > >
                                                > > AFAIK, NTP just ensures that the local system's concept of GMT is
                                                > > correct --
                                                > > NTP knows nothing of daylight savings time, so the local time will
                                                > > still be
                                                > > wrong.
                                                > >
                                                > > Actually, if it were just the displayed time that was wrong, it
                                                would be
                                                > > just an inconvenience. But it would affect cron jobs and other
                                                operations
                                                > > that might be more sensitive. So this is something we do need to
                                                address
                                                > > for Unslung users who would be concerned about this. It's
                                                possible, but
                                                > > unlikely, that we'll have a new Unslung release by then -- so I think
                                                > > perhaps a new timezone file for the Americas and a wiki article will
                                                > > do the
                                                > > job. Now all we need is a volunteer to create the necessary
                                                timezone file,
                                                > > and test the procedure.
                                                > >
                                                > > Mike (mwester)
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                              • Bob
                                                On V2.3R29-uNSLUng-5.5-beta, with the addition of the diversion script rc.rstimezone described in
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Feb 27, 2007
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  On V2.3R29-uNSLUng-5.5-beta, with the addition of the diversion script rc.rstimezone described in http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/HowTo/FixTheClockUsingAdjtimexAndNtpclient , the fix does not survive a reboot.

                                                  My guess is that the line "/usr/sbin/Set_TimeZone" is restoring the linksys configuration.  Is it better to fix this script by commenting out this line,  change this script to establish a hard coded "TZ=America/Los_Angeles" or write another script that includes your fix on startup?

                                                  Bob
                                                  --------- Original Message --------
                                                  From: "Brian Zhou" <b88zhou@...>
                                                  To: nslu2-linux@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: [nslu2-linux] Re: DST change
                                                  Date: 2/27/2007 5:35 PM

                                                  http://www.nslu2- linux.org/ wiki/Unslung/ TimeZoneUpdate

                                                  More than two people have tested the procedure and it is working.

                                                  -Brian Zhou

                                                  --- In nslu2-linux@ yahoogroups. com, Bob <bobejr@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Is there any progress on this issue?
                                                  >
                                                  > -------- Original Message --------
                                                  > From: "Mike \(mwester\)" <mwester@... >
                                                  > To: nslu2-linux@ yahoogroups. com
                                                  > Subject: Re:[nslu2-linux] Re: DST change
                                                  > Date: 2/3/2007 1:44 PM
                                                  > >
                                                  > > [snip]
                                                  > > > Those system using ntp should not matter. ntp should correct the
                                                  time.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > AFAIK, NTP just ensures that the local system's concept of GMT is
                                                  > > correct --
                                                  > > NTP knows nothing of daylight savings time, so the local time will
                                                  > > still be
                                                  > > wrong.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Actually, if it were just the displayed time that was wrong, it
                                                  would be
                                                  > > just an inconvenience. But it would affect cron jobs and other
                                                  operations
                                                  > > that might be more sensitive. So this is something we do need to
                                                  address
                                                  > > for Unslung users who would be concerned about this. It's
                                                  possible, but
                                                  > > unlikely, that we'll have a new Unslung release by then -- so I think
                                                  > > perhaps a new timezone file for the Americas and a wiki article will
                                                  > > do the
                                                  > > job. Now all we need is a volunteer to create the necessary
                                                  timezone file,
                                                  > > and test the procedure.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Mike (mwester)
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >



                                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.