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Mistake in Novial Lexike?

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  • James Chandler
    Hey folks, I think I have just found an error, and a fairly major one, in Novial Lexike. I am running through NL just now in order to complete a dictionary
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 6 12:25 PM
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      Hey folks,
      I think I have just found an error, and a fairly major one, in Novial
      Lexike. I am running through NL just now in order to complete a dictionary
      for my Medilingua project. I am making a small number of changes but
      consistently throughout the lexicon. I am changing a few final -e sbs to
      -a, eg. lingue -> lingua, but at the same time I see no reason for the
      numerous -ia endings on technical words such as biografia, fonologia, so I
      am busy reseting them all to -ie (biografie, fonologie).

      Now, I came to the word: fotokemia. This happens to fall between fotografia
      and fotolitografia.. so J was clearly on a roll at this point. But this is
      where he makes his Freudian slip: I think to myself, hang on a second, the
      Novial word for 'chemistry' is not kemiA, its kemiE. I check ahead and sure
      enough, I'm right! At this point I make 2 assumptions:
      1) fotokemiA is intended to translate 'photochemistry'
      2) J's choice of kemiE is not a mistake: cp. D Chemie, F chimie.

      Conclusion: J's technical sb ending -ia is unjustified, inconsistent and a
      mistake which runs throughout NL. Unless it is a printing error (which I
      doubt) J has revealed an overzealousness to apply his -ia ending which has
      resulted in an impossible pair:

      kemiE = E chemistry
      fotokemiA = E photochemistry

      I now feel entirely justified in setting all such -ia back to -ie in the
      Medilingua dictionary - and as such am also feeling more confident about the
      other changes I am making.

      It is not easy to catch out a linguist of J's stature, or to improve on his
      work, but I think I may now be doing both.

      Kordialim

      Kordiale, James Chandler
      idojc@...
      http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index
      http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home
      http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido

      "We should all stay in touch, we should make a big network on both sides of
      the Atlantic because your country and my country are the biggest problems in
      the world today, we are the biggest rogue states in the world today and the
      citizens have got to take back control of the plane." - George Galloway, MP
      Interviewed on the Alex Jones Show, 31st May 2005

      _________________________________________________________________
      Click Here To Find Your Perfect Match This Valentines!
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    • Wayne Dam
      Hi If, Nov ialist is around he could explain it to you. I had the same question around geografia . His explanation Geografe is a geographer, from which is
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 6 1:55 PM
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        Hi

         

        If, Nov ialist is around he could explain it to you. I had the same question around “geografia”. His explanation ‘"Geografe" is a geographer, from which is derived "geografia" the "domain of geographers".’

         

        Doesn’t solve you chemistry question.

         

        Hope this helps

        Wayne

         


        From: novial-discussion@yahoogroups.com [mailto:novial-discussion@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Chandler
        Sent: 06 February 2007 22:25
        To: novial-discussion@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [SPAM] [novial-discussion] Mistake in Novial Lexike?

         

        Hey folks,
        I think I have just found an error, and a fairly major one, in Novial
        Lexike. I am running through NL just now in order to complete a dictionary
        for my Medilingua project. I am making a small number of changes but
        consistently throughout the lexicon. I am changing a few final -e sbs to
        -a, eg. lingue -> lingua, but at the same time I see no reason for the
        numerous -ia endings on technical words such as biografia, fonologia, so I
        am busy reseting them all to -ie (biografie, fonologie).

        Now, I came to the word: fotokemia. This happens to fall between fotografia
        and fotolitografia. . so J was clearly on a roll at this point. But this is
        where he makes his Freudian slip: I think to myself, hang on a second, the
        Novial word for 'chemistry' is not kemiA, its kemiE. I check ahead and sure
        enough, I'm right! At this point I make 2 assumptions:
        1) fotokemiA is intended to translate 'photochemistry'
        2) J's choice of kemiE is not a mistake: cp. D Chemie, F chimie.

        Conclusion: J's technical sb ending -ia is unjustified, inconsistent and a
        mistake which runs throughout NL. Unless it is a printing error (which I
        doubt) J has revealed an overzealousness to apply his -ia ending which has
        resulted in an impossible pair:

        kemiE = E chemistry
        fotokemiA = E photochemistry

        I now feel entirely justified in setting all such -ia back to -ie in the
        Medilingua dictionary - and as such am also feeling more confident about the
        other changes I am making.

        It is not easy to catch out a linguist of J's stature, or to improve on his
        work, but I think I may now be doing both.

        Kordialim

        Kordiale, James Chandler
        idojc@hotmail. com
        http://www.geocitie s.com/idojc - IALs index
        http://www.geocitie s.com/idojc/ yindex.html - Ido index
        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/idolisto - Idolisto home
        http://io.wikipedia .org - Wikipedio en Ido

        "We should all stay in touch, we should make a big network on both sides of
        the Atlantic because your country and my country are the biggest problems in
        the world today, we are the biggest rogue states in the world today and the
        citizens have got to take back control of the plane." - George Galloway, MP
        Interviewed on the Alex Jones Show, 31st May 2005

        ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
        Click Here To Find Your Perfect Match This Valentines!
        http://msnuk. match.com/

      • dimitryivanov
        I would rather say that J s choice of -e in kemie is a mistake. It is a specific domain, the same as geografia, geologia. _________
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 7 8:47 AM
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          I would rather say that J's choice of -e in kemie is a mistake.
          It is a specific domain, the same as geografia, geologia.

          _________
          http://lingwadeplaneta.info/en/index.shtml
        • dimitryivanov
          By the way, in Russian it is KHIMIA.
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 7 9:04 AM
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            By the way, in Russian it is KHIMIA.
          • James Chandler
            I don t think that can be the right answer. For one thing, I am 99.9% certain that J s choice of kemiE was intentional and not an error (or a printing error).
            Message 5 of 8 , Feb 7 11:46 AM
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              I don't think that can be the right answer. For one thing, I am 99.9%
              certain that J's choice of kemiE was intentional and not an error (or a
              printing error). And if -ia is supposed to be a suffix here meaning
              "country, domain etc." then "chemist" would be keme, which it is not: NL
              itself gives kemiiste for that.

              If there is a single mistake in NL it is fotokemia - it could be a printing
              error but I doubt it. Given where it occurs in relation to other words in
              -ia it seems to me to betray a wider mistake on J's part.


              Kordiale, James Chandler
              idojc@...
              http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index
              http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home
              http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido

              "We should all stay in touch, we should make a big network on both sides of
              the Atlantic because your country and my country are the biggest problems in
              the world today, we are the biggest rogue states in the world today and the
              citizens have got to take back control of the plane." - George Galloway, MP
              Interviewed on the Alex Jones Show, 31st May 2005





              >From: "dimitryivanov" <dimitryivanov@...>
              >Reply-To: novial-discussion@yahoogroups.com
              >To: novial-discussion@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: [novial-discussion] Re: Mistake in Novial Lexike?
              >Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 16:47:13 -0000
              >
              >I would rather say that J's choice of -e in kemie is a mistake.
              >It is a specific domain, the same as geografia, geologia.
              >
              >_________
              >http://lingwadeplaneta.info/en/index.shtml

              _________________________________________________________________
              MSN Hotmail is evolving � check out the new Windows Live Mail
              http://ideas.live.com
            • James Chandler
              I think it is an error to generalize the -ia suffix from the concrete meaning of country etc. (as in angle, Anglia) to abstract domains or fields of study in
              Message 6 of 8 , Feb 7 11:51 AM
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                I think it is an error to generalize the -ia suffix from the concrete
                meaning of "country etc." (as in angle, Anglia) to abstract domains or
                fields of study in this way. There is another reason why I find the -ie
                ending more natural: it coincides with the Eng plural:

                biografies = E biographies

                Medilingua will make this improvement and quite a few more..

                Kordiale, James Chandler
                idojc@...
                http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index
                http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home
                http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido

                "We should all stay in touch, we should make a big network on both sides of
                the Atlantic because your country and my country are the biggest problems in
                the world today, we are the biggest rogue states in the world today and the
                citizens have got to take back control of the plane." - George Galloway, MP
                Interviewed on the Alex Jones Show, 31st May 2005





                >From: "Wayne Dam" <home@...>
                >Reply-To: novial-discussion@yahoogroups.com
                >To: <novial-discussion@yahoogroups.com>
                >Subject: RE: [SPAM] [novial-discussion] Mistake in Novial Lexike?
                >Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 23:55:22 +0200
                >
                >Hi
                >
                >
                >
                >If, Nov ialist is around he could explain it to you. I had the same
                >question
                >around "geografia". His explanation '"Geografe" is a geographer, from which
                >is derived "geografia" the "domain of geographers".'
                >
                >
                >
                >Doesn't solve you chemistry question.
                >
                >
                >
                >Hope this helps
                >
                >Wayne

                _________________________________________________________________
                MSN Hotmail is evolving � check out the new Windows Live Mail
                http://ideas.live.com
              • dimitryivanov
                Just one remark. To my view, it is rather strange to produce a word for a field, or occupation, from the word of person occupied in this field. The name for
                Message 7 of 8 , Feb 7 1:06 PM
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                  Just one remark. To my view, it is rather strange to produce a word
                  for a field, or occupation, from the word of person occupied in this
                  field. The name for occupation is primary, that's common sense. There
                  can not be geographer if there's no geografy, no biologist if there's
                  no biology, etc. So I think that we don't necessarily have to be able
                  to produce these words (biologia, geografia, anatomia etc.) from some
                  others, but we should take them as they are. This is the most natural
                  approach, I believe.
                  ___________
                  www.lingwadeplaneta.info
                • dimitryivanov
                  ... Well, then you have discovered another set of NL mistakes, because there you can find filosofia, anatomia, geologia, geografia, etc. ... Speaking about
                  Message 8 of 8 , Feb 7 1:21 PM
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                    --- In novial-discussion@yahoogroups.com, "James Chandler" <idojc@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > I think it is an error to generalize the -ia suffix from the concrete
                    > meaning of "country etc." (as in angle, Anglia) to abstract domains or
                    > fields of study in this way.

                    Well, then you have discovered another set of NL mistakes, because
                    there you can find filosofia, anatomia, geologia, geografia, etc.


                    >There is another reason why I find the -ie
                    > ending more natural: it coincides with the Eng plural:
                    >
                    > biografies = E biographies

                    Speaking about naturalness, I'd like to remark that this Latin ending
                    -ia is perfectly natural in the words for abstract domains or
                    fields of study in Spanish, Portugese, Italian, and Russian. In all
                    these languages it is "biografia"

                    Kordialim,
                    D.Ivanov
                    www.lingwadeplaneta.info
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