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Elisiones

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  • CppGuy
    Ob akseptiblim usa elisione de -e de substantives?  P. ex: Half a league, half a league, half a league onward! Medileug, medileug, medileug insitim! It s
    Message 1 of 3 , May 5, 2013

      Ob akseptiblim usa elisione de "-e" de substantives?  P. ex:

      Half a league, half a league, half a league onward!

      Medileug, medileug, medileug insitim!

      It's late and I don't have quite the mental energy to finish this in Novial. Tennyson wrote "The Charge of the Light Brigade" to have the rhythm of a gallop: "bah-bah-BUM bah-bah-BUM bah-bah-BUM bah-BUM." (Ok, I cheated a little with my translation for the final phrase; sue me. :-) Also, the word "league" (Latin "leuga" = 1.5 roman miles) doesn't exist in the N28-N30 dictionary, but more on that presently.

      One of the things I never liked about Esperanto was the awkwardness of meter and rhyme. Yes, I've seen the (one and only) poem that rhymes nouns, verbs, adjectives, etc. But it's a contrivance and uses elision that simply isn't normally permissible in E-o. You just can't write common poetry in E-o.

      OTOH, Novial seems to have a heart for poetry. Well, that is, if it's ok to drop the -e or -o of nouns, provided it it's clear from context. After all, the same is described for -i on adjectives.

      Permit me to ramble for a moment. I'm going to quickly eyeball my Novial word list for examples. Unlike E-o, Novial verbs don't necessarily rhyme with all others (and I think this is a good thing.) For example, "Espera" doesn't rhyme other verbs ending with "-eru" or "-ero." But with verbs using 4 different endings, there are plenty of ways to have varying rhymes.

      It's also possible (again, at a glance, I'm sure there are dozens of other possibilities) that "burgesi" with the "i" dropped (and any adjective ending with -esi") can rhyme with plural nouns ending with "-eges" (though, emphasis is at odds).

      Anyways, let me return to the question I had at the start: Is elision of the -e (or, in some cases, -o) acceptable for nouns if there is otherwise no confusion?

      [I changed my mind about "leuga" and will create a separate topic. I've found this group only handles one topic per thread.]

    • Kjell Rehnström
      Omni lingue have su ritme. Exemplim li poloni nationali epikum Pan Tadeusz blid belim tradukteti en esperanto, den li prelasti aksento in esperantum es simili
      Message 2 of 3 , May 6, 2013
        Omni lingue have su ritme. Exemplim
        li poloni nationali epikum Pan
        Tadeusz blid belim tradukteti en
        esperanto, den li prelasti aksento
        in esperantum es simili a tu in
        polonum. Ma es tre desfasili
        tradukte poloni poesie en svedum,
        den nusen lingue have altri longeso
        de vordes e li aksente fala en
        diferenti silabes in vordes.

        Kjell R

        Elisione pove es bon instrument por
        in Novial.

        B
        CppGuy skrev 2013-05-06 07:17:
        >
        > Ob akseptiblim usa elisione de
        > "-e" de substantives? P. ex:
        >
        > Half a league, half a league,
        > half a league onward!
        >
        > Medileug, medileug, medileug
        > insitim!
        >
        > It's late and I don't have quite
        > the mental energy to finish this
        > in Novial. Tennyson wrote "The
        > Charge of the Light Brigade" to
        > have the rhythm of a gallop:
        > "bah-bah-BUM bah-bah-BUM
        > bah-bah-BUM bah-BUM." (Ok, I
        > cheated a little with my
        > translation for the final phrase;
        > sue me. :-) Also, the word
        > "league" (Latin "leuga" = 1.5
        > roman miles) doesn't exist in the
        > N28-N30 dictionary, but more on
        > that presently.
        >
        > One of the things I never liked
        > about Esperanto was the
        > awkwardness of meter and rhyme.
        > Yes, I've seen the (one and only)
        > poem that rhymes nouns, verbs,
        > adjectives, etc. But it's a
        > contrivance and uses elision that
        > simply isn't normally permissible
        > in E-o. You just can't write
        > common poetry in E-o.
        >
        > OTOH, Novial seems to have a
        > heart for poetry. Well, that is,
        > if it's ok to drop the -e or -o
        > of nouns, provided it it's clear
        > from context. After all, the same
        > is described for -i on adjectives.
        >
        > Permit me to ramble for a moment.
        > I'm going to quickly eyeball my
        > Novial word list for examples.
        > Unlike E-o, Novial verbs don't
        > necessarily rhyme with all others
        > (and I think this is a good
        > thing.) For example, "Espera"
        > doesn't rhyme other verbs ending
        > with "-eru" or "-ero." But with
        > verbs using 4 different endings,
        > there are plenty of ways to have
        > varying rhymes.
        >
        > It's also possible (again, at a
        > glance, I'm sure there are dozens
        > of other possibilities) that
        > "burgesi" with the "i" dropped
        > (and any adjective ending with
        > -esi") can rhyme with plural
        > nouns ending with "-eges"
        > (though, emphasis is at odds).
        >
        > Anyways, let me return to the
        > question I had at the start: Is
        > elision of the -e (or, in some
        > cases, -o) acceptable for nouns
        > if there is otherwise no confusion?
        >
        > [I changed my mind about "leuga"
        > and will create a separate topic.
        > I've found this group only
        > handles one topic per thread.]
        >
        >
      • Bruce R. Gilson
        ... I think that because you *are* allowed to drop the adjectival -i ending, you *cannot* drop the noun endings. But, of course, this is my logical mind
        Message 3 of 3 , May 6, 2013
          On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 1:17 AM, CppGuy <cppguy@...> wrote:
           

          Ob akseptiblim usa elisione de "-e" de substantives?  P. ex:

          Half a league, half a league, half a league onward!

          Medileug, medileug, medileug insitim!

          It's late and I don't have quite the mental energy to finish this in Novial. Tennyson wrote "The Charge of the Light Brigade" to have the rhythm of a gallop: "bah-bah-BUM bah-bah-BUM bah-bah-BUM bah-BUM." (Ok, I cheated a little with my translation for the final phrase; sue me. :-) Also, the word "league" (Latin "leuga" = 1.5 roman miles) doesn't exist in the N28-N30 dictionary, but more on that presently.

          One of the things I never liked about Esperanto was the awkwardness of meter and rhyme. Yes, I've seen the (one and only) poem that rhymes nouns, verbs, adjectives, etc. But it's a contrivance and uses elision that simply isn't normally permissible in E-o. You just can't write common poetry in E-o.

          OTOH, Novial seems to have a heart for poetry. Well, that is, if it's ok to drop the -e or -o of nouns, provided it it's clear from context. After all, the same is described for -i on adjectives.

           

          I think that because you are allowed to drop the adjectival -i ending, you cannot
           
          drop the noun endings. But, of course, this is my logical mind speaking, the same one that insisted that N98 have the -r ending on verbs, because otherwise verbs in -a could be confused with feminine nouns, and similarly for the other verbs with endings that looked like other endings. Certainly you can't in N98 -- we put in a specific rule that you could not drop the -i after the letters -d, -r, and -s, for this very reason. But AIL is silent about this, and one needs to guess about the rule in N28/30. For myself, I wouldn't do it!
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