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Re: [novial-discussion] Re: Anglum o novialum?

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  • Kjell Rehnström
    I think we will have to aggrea to disaggrea! I will certainly find the places where I can get the necessary excercice in using Novial. And then we can use this
    Message 1 of 24 , May 2, 2009
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      I think we will have to aggrea to disaggrea! I will certainly find the
      places where I can get the necessary excercice in using Novial. And then
      we can use this group for the necessary discussion about Novial in English.

      Kjell R
    • Donald Gasper
      Me prefere skripte hir per Novial. ... _________________________________________________________________ Drag n’ drop—Get easy photo sharing with Windows
      Message 2 of 24 , May 2, 2009
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        Me prefere skripte hir per Novial.
         
        > To: novial-discussion@yahoogroups.com
        > From: cellus@...
        > Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 14:58:06 +0200
        > Subject: Re: [novial-discussion] Re: Anglum o novialum?
        >
        > I think we will have to aggrea to disaggrea! I will certainly find the
        > places where I can get the necessary excercice in using Novial. And then
        > we can use this group for the necessary discussion about Novial in English.
        >
        > Kjell R
        >
        >


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      • Bruce R. Gilson
        ... I think Kjell is particularly critical of me and those like me who see Novial as a base upon which to build, rather than a final language. But let me quote
        Message 3 of 24 , May 2, 2009
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          --- In novial-discussion@yahoogroups.com, Kjell Rehnström <cellus@...> wrote:
          >
          > [...]
          >
          > My take is that the language has an enormous potential, but it has
          > never had a real chance, as people have just been tinkering with it
          > instead of sticking to one variety of it and trying to propagate it.
          >

          I think Kjell is particularly critical of me and those like me who see Novial as a base upon which to build, rather than a final language.

          But let me quote Otto Jespersen:

          "In regard to some points I have hesitated a good deal before deciding on the form here proposed, and am perfectly willing to accept criticism and new suggestions: though, as I have said in Part I, we are approaching a period of agreement on the principle of language-construction, that period has not yet arrived, and interlinguists must therefore show the widest toleration of each other's systems and provisionally admit alternative forms, which will have to be tested thoroughly in practice before the bad ones are weeded out finally. I shall be happy if it is recognized that I have contributed in some slight measure to bring about the victory of the idea in general and to give its final shape to the International Auxiliary Language of the future." [AIL]

          I have always kept these words in mind in my own "tinkering" (as Kjell would call it), and felt that Jespersen himself would not have objected to the ideas which I have expressed.
        • nov_ialiste
          ... For several years this board has operated in Novial *and* English. It s for both. I would warn beginners that not all Novial written on message boards is
          Message 4 of 24 , May 2, 2009
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            --- In novial-discussion@yahoogroups.com, Kjell Rehnström <cellus@...> wrote:
            >
            > I think we will have to aggrea to disaggrea! I will certainly find the
            > places where I can get the necessary excercice in using Novial. And then
            > we can use this group for the necessary discussion about Novial in English.
            >

            For several years this board has operated in Novial *and* English. It's for both.

            I would warn beginners that not all Novial written on message boards is suitable as an exemplar.

            Salutos,

            nov_ialiste
          • Kjell Rehnström
            ... The positive thing about your position is that you stated clearly that what you worked on was a modernized version of Novial. When I, in a way, felt a new
            Message 5 of 24 , May 2, 2009
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              Bruce R. Gilson skrev:
              > I think Kjell is particularly critical of me and those like me who see
              > Novial as a base upon which to build, rather than a final language.
              > But let me quote Otto Jespersen:
              >
              > "In regard to some points I have hesitated a good deal before deciding on the form here proposed, and am perfectly willing to accept criticism and new suggestions: though, as I have said in Part I, we are approaching a period of agreement on the principle of language-construction, that period has not yet arrived, and interlinguists must therefore show the widest toleration of each other's systems and provisionally admit alternative forms, which will have to be tested thoroughly in practice before the bad ones are weeded out finally. I shall be happy if it is recognized that I have contributed in some slight measure to bring about the victory of the idea in general and to give its final shape to the International Auxiliary Language of the future." [AIL]
              >
              > I have always kept these words in mind in my own "tinkering" (as Kjell would call it), and felt that Jespersen himself would not have objected to the ideas which I have expressed.
              >
              The positive thing about your position is that you stated clearly that
              what you worked on was a modernized version of Novial. When I, in a way,
              felt a new interest in Novial, it was the old form of the language that
              fascinated me. And what in a way triggered my interest was the
              possibility to try and see how far you can get with the original version.

              The advantage in trying to stick with the original version is that there
              are a lot of books in the big libraries throughout Europe and perhaps
              even the world, but that is perhaps a possible exaggeration.

              I will readily agree that there are things that one's fingers itch to
              change, like the treatment of abstract and concrete neuters. If I try
              something like that I will do it under a new name, perhaps my own
              Komunikando version whatever.

              As far as myself is concerned I intend to learn the original Novial as
              well as I can. Only to very practic test it is possible to se what the
              language can do.

              I had some conversations with Valter Alstedt about his contacts with
              Jespersen, and my impression is that Jespersen was a little bit too
              tolerant to the changes suggested. This si my interpretation of what he
              told me.

              My impression is that there was a lot of changing going on all the time.

              During the last time I have had the opportunity of seing how difficult
              language learning can be to some people. If Novial could do the trick,
              it would be worth much.

              The Skype neutral auxlang chat has quite clearly demonstrated how close
              the vocabulary of Esperanto, Ido, Interlingue/Occidental, Latino sine
              flexione and Interlingua is so close. A good analogy is New Norwegian
              and Czech. I can understand these two languages, New Norwegian (Nynorsk)
              through my Swedish mother tongue and Czech via my knowledge of Polish.
              But in neither case I haav very few clues to their grammar, and I woud
              not be able to produce a correct sentence in either language. But it
              doesn't hamper my understanding!

              My impression is that Novial is a summary of the other auxlangs in a
              cronological order. And it is very inspiring.

              Kjell R
            • Kjell Rehnström
              Nov-ialiste ha tre elokventim parla in favore de usa anglum in ti liste por diskuse pri novial. Me ha pensat pri tum e un misaje a un ido-liste donad plu
              Message 6 of 24 , May 9, 2009
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                Nov-ialiste ha tre elokventim parla in favore de usa anglum in ti liste
                por diskuse pri novial. Me ha pensat pri tum e un misaje a un ido-liste
                donad plu amunitione a mi opinione ke pove es persones kel tre fasilim
                aprenda novial ma pro num non es habili in anglum. Europano pove sertim
                sin tro grandi energie aprenda novial, mult plu fasilim ke anglum o
                fransum. Forsan noi exkluse habili novial-parlantes kel ne kuraja
                skripte anglim.

                Me komprenda ke it es natural por un persone kel have anglum kom patrali
                lingue, ma por me lum es totalmen non-importanti, si me skripte anglim o
                novialim - ambi lingues es stranjeri por me! E svedum forsan ne es tant
                komprensivi! Me ne pove usa mi matrilingue, e me pensa ke li uso de
                anglum o novialum es egal a me.

                Ob nu non riska exkluse tro mult de cerebre-potentie?

                Por plu de novial!

                Kjell R
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