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Re: [NTB] Re: Loss of outline pages

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  • Jody
    Hi Paul, ... They are not unreliable. ... That has been mentioned a number of times. Using the same dialog with the Yes/No buttons, how would you word it. To
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 1 7:21 PM
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      Hi Paul,

      > If outline files are touchy and unreliable, I will move my
      > outline files elsewhere. I keep running files here, subject to
      > periodic editing and periodic snail mail deadlines. Until now,
      > I have no complaints about outline files.

      They are not unreliable.

      > The language in this dialog box could be improved. It asks for
      > a positive answer to print the entire outline and a negative
      > answer to print only the current topic.

      That has been mentioned a number of times. Using the same dialog
      with the Yes/No buttons, how would you word it. To make a new box
      for it would be added bloat for no really good reason. It is
      clearly stated on what to answer even though it is a bit awkward
      pressing No and still getting a result other than ending. :)

      > Sorry about that. I read your comments to mean there were
      > options specific to outline files in a separate dialog box, not
      > a part of the familiar, large Print dialog box with four tabs
      > along the top.

      Once you answer the Yes/No question everything is the same as
      printing a regular document. The only reason for the Yes/No
      question is to give you the option of printing the whole Outline
      or only the Topic.

      > I have failed to explain clearly that these choices came in
      > successive boxes, not the same dialog box. Each offered me two
      > and only two choices.

      That is really strange. I have no idea why you would get that.
      If you ever get it again could you take a screen shot of it and
      send it to me private eMail please? Are you doing the printing
      from a Clip by any chance?

      > I think we have just about squeezed all the juice out of this
      > one. I'll post (to the whole list and especially Jody) again
      > only if the error reoccurs.

      Feel free to keep posting until you understand how it works.
      Others know where the delete key is if they are not interested.

      Happy NoteTab'n,
      Jody Adair

      The NoteTabbers Assistant Page
      http://www.sureword.com/notetab

      The NoteTab Basic Discussion List
      mailto:NoteTab-Subscribe@...
      mailto:NoteTab-UnSubscribe@...
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    • Paul King
      Hi Listees: I have found my error which resulted in the loss of some outline text and here suggest a way of avoiding my mistake. It involves the Show Headings
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 2 12:57 AM
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        Hi Listees:

        I have found my error which resulted in the loss of
        some outline text and here suggest a way of avoiding
        my mistake.

        It involves the Show Headings command and has nothing
        to do with printing or the Print dialog box.

        When outline files are active, outline headers appear in
        the left pane with the current topic text one is editing in
        the right pane.

        In my case, a heading appeared at the top of the current
        topic pane. I wanted to remove the heading, but was not
        aware that right clicking in the header pane would activate
        a menu box where I could make this happen.

        Show Heading, the bottom command in this menu
        box, is a toggle switch. Checking it will cause the heading
        to appear in the current topic pane. Unchecking it will delete
        the heading in the current topic pane.

        Instead of doing this, I highlighted the header in the current
        topic pane and hit the delete button. The heading vanished.
        Then I attempted to close the document and got a new dialog
        box: Confirm changes to the file with a yes/no choice.

        When I selected yes, a new Confirm dialog box appeared asking
        if I really meant to remove this file. Again I clicked yes and poof
        went my file. I have confirmed the result twice by repeating these
        steps with a test file.

        The moral is: be alert. Do not attempt to remove a header in the
        current topic pane by highlighting and deleting it. If you do, say
        Sayonara to your current topic file.

        Paul King
      • Jody
        Hi Paul, ... I am sure glad you figured it out! It would be many moons till I guessed at what happened. ;) About your last sentence above: NoteTab does not
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 2 10:14 PM
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          Hi Paul,

          > When outline files are active, outline headers appear in the
          > left pane with the current topic text one is editing in the
          > right pane.
          >
          > In my case, a heading appeared at the top of the current topic
          > pane. I wanted to remove the heading, but was not aware that
          > right clicking in the header pane would activate a menu box
          > where I could make this happen.
          >
          > Show Heading, the bottom command in this menu box, is a toggle
          > switch. Checking it will cause the heading to appear in the
          > current topic pane. Unchecking it will delete the heading in
          > the current topic pane.

          I am sure glad you figured it out! It would be many moons till I
          guessed at what happened. ;) About your last sentence above:
          NoteTab does not delete the Heading as you probably figured, but
          simply hides it from the Topic content pane until Show Headings
          it clicked again. You will notice when you have Show Headings
          off that and Edit Heading appears on the menu, but when Headings
          are showing it is not there. That is because you edit the
          heading in the Topic pane when it is in there.

          I deleted a few a couple years ago like you did myself. <g>

          Happy NoteTab'n,
          Jody Adair

          The NoteTabbers Assistant Page
          http://www.sureword.com/notetab

          The NoteTab Basic Discussion List
          mailto:NoteTab-Subscribe@...
          mailto:NoteTab-UnSubscribe@...
          http://www.egroups.com/group/notetab
        • Paul King
          ... Hi Jody and listees: Hide is indeed the operative word, not delete. But you see I was targeting the header for deletion because I didn t want it in the
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 3 1:11 AM
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            At 12:14 AM 7/3/00 -0500, Jody wrote:
            >Hi Paul,
            >
            >NoteTab does not delete the Heading as you probably figured, but
            >simply hides it from the Topic content pane until Show Headings
            >it clicked again. You will notice when you have Show Headings
            >off that and Edit Heading appears on the menu, but when Headings
            >are showing it is not there. That is because you edit the
            >heading in the Topic pane when it is in there.
            >
            >I deleted a few a couple years ago like you did myself. <g>

            Hi Jody and listees:

            Hide is indeed the operative word, not delete. But you see I
            was targeting the header for deletion because I didn't want it
            in the printed copy. By following this path, I ended up deleting
            the entire text by mistake and went too far to undo the command.
            And I erroneously blamed my mistake on the Print command.

            PK
          • David McIntosh
            Hi Paul Have you checked the recycle bin. thankyou dave
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 3 6:31 AM
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              Hi Paul
              Have you checked the recycle bin.
              thankyou dave

              Paul King wrote:
              >
              > Hi Jody:
              >
              > I have just lost four pages from an outline heading (plus
              > the heading), I have a hard copy, but wish to recover
              > my loss. Any hope?
              >
              > As I recall, I was queried whether I wanted to print the
              > specific heading or the the entire outline file. I chose
              > the specific heading.
              >
              > Then I was asked another question and apparently made
              > the wrong choice. This a new error for me, thus pushing
              > up my grand total to a new high. 8--(
              >
              > Paul King
              >
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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            • Paul King
              ... Hi Dave: I was not ignoring your attempt to help me. For some reason I saw your email for the first time this A. M. As I understand it, there is no
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 3 12:11 PM
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                At 11:31 PM 7/3/00 +1000, you wrote:
                >Hi Paul
                >Have you checked the recycle bin.
                > thankyou dave
                >
                >Paul King wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi Jody:
                > >
                > > I have just lost four pages from an outline heading (plus
                > > the heading), I have a hard copy, but wish to recover
                > > my loss. Any hope?
                > >
                > > Paul King


                Hi Dave:

                I was not ignoring your attempt to help me. For some reason
                I saw your email for the first time this A. M. As I understand
                it, there is no recourse to recovery from the trash bin in ntp.
                The only option for text recovery is the Undo command which,
                of course, you must use immediately after the loss or the copy
                is gone forever. On occasion, Find may locate errant copy if
                it still exists.

                If I have this wrong, I'm sure it will be corrected immediately
                by more than one person on the list. If you have been following
                this thread, you can see how I discovered the cause of my loss.
                It was a puzzling (and thoughtless) mistake on my part,

                Thanks,
                Paul King
              • Larry Thomas
                Hi Paul and Dave, ... There are several ways to lose and recover text and files in NoteTab. In the case of simply deleting the whole file, NoteTab does in
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 3 2:44 PM
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                  Hi Paul and Dave,

                  At 12:11 PM 07/03/2000 -0700, you wrote:
                  >Hi Dave:
                  >
                  >I was not ignoring your attempt to help me. For some reason
                  >I saw your email for the first time this A. M. As I understand
                  >it, there is no recourse to recovery from the trash bin in ntp.
                  >The only option for text recovery is the Undo command which,
                  >of course, you must use immediately after the loss or the copy
                  >is gone forever. On occasion, Find may locate errant copy if
                  >it still exists.
                  >
                  >If I have this wrong, I'm sure it will be corrected immediately
                  >by more than one person on the list. If you have been following
                  >this thread, you can see how I discovered the cause of my loss.
                  >It was a puzzling (and thoughtless) mistake on my part,
                  >
                  >Thanks,
                  >Paul King

                  There are several ways to lose and recover text and files in NoteTab. In
                  the case of simply deleting the whole file, NoteTab does in fact send it to
                  the recycle bin and you can recover it from there. In the case of deleting
                  text from within a file but not the file itself as you did with your
                  outline, there are two possible options.

                  A) If you have not saved the file after deleting the text and the text was
                  in the original file when you opened it, you can reload the file to recover
                  the text.

                  B) If (1) you have set the undo option to "Undo after Save" and (2) you
                  have not deleted an amount of text that is larger than undo can handle and
                  (3) you have not terminated NoteTab and then restarted it (which will clear
                  the undo option) then you can undo it. Undo has a history list and if you
                  have made several text changes but they are not too large for this function
                  then you can undo them one at a time starting with the last change you made
                  and progressively using undo to reverse the previous ones going from the
                  last change to the first one you made.

                  Regards,

                  Larry
                  larryt@...
                • Paul King
                  ... Thanks Larry: It has been some time since I lost text in circumstances which caused me to reexamine recovery methods. Thanks for your lucid explanation. I
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 3 4:07 PM
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                    At 04:44 PM 7/3/00 -0500, you wrote:

                    >Hi Paul and Dave,
                    >
                    >At 12:11 PM 07/03/2000 -0700, you wrote:
                    > >Hi Dave:
                    > >
                    > >I was not ignoring your attempt to help me. For some reason
                    > >I saw your email for the first time this A. M. As I understand
                    > >it, there is no recourse to recovery from the trash bin in ntp.
                    > >The only option for text recovery is the Undo command which,
                    > >of course, you must use immediately after the loss or the copy
                    > >is gone forever. On occasion, Find may locate errant copy if
                    > >it still exists.
                    >
                    > >Thanks,
                    > >Paul King
                    >
                    >There are several ways to lose and recover text and files in NoteTab. In
                    >the case of simply deleting the whole file, NoteTab does in fact send it to
                    >the recycle bin and you can recover it from there. In the case of deleting
                    >text from within a file but not the file itself as you did with your
                    >outline, there are two possible options.
                    >
                    >A) If you have not saved the file after deleting the text and the text was
                    >in the original file when you opened it, you can reload the file to recover
                    >the text.
                    >
                    >B) If (1) you have set the undo option to "Undo after Save" and (2) you
                    >have not deleted an amount of text that is larger than undo can handle and
                    >(3) you have not terminated NoteTab and then restarted it (which will clear
                    >the undo option) then you can undo it. Undo has a history list and if you
                    >have made several text changes but they are not too large for this function
                    >then you can undo them one at a time starting with the last change you made
                    >and progressively using undo to reverse the previous ones going from the
                    >last change to the first one you made.
                    >
                    >Regards,
                    >
                    >Larry
                    >larryt@...


                    Thanks Larry:

                    It has been some time since I lost text in circumstances
                    which caused me to reexamine recovery methods. Thanks
                    for your lucid explanation. I have not only repeated your
                    examples to verify that they work, but I have also printed
                    out your email and posted it above my keyboard for
                    reference. Same for your tips on outline text.

                    Occasionally one can learn more from an error than he
                    suffered from the loss it caused. I am much obliged.

                    Paul King
                  • Larry Thomas
                    Hi Paul, ... You are welcome. I am glad that I could help. A special suggestion for you here for future reference is to go to View|Options and select the File
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 3 8:33 PM
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                      Hi Paul,

                      At 04:07 PM 07/03/2000 -0700, you wrote:
                      >Thanks Larry:
                      >
                      >It has been some time since I lost text in circumstances
                      >which caused me to reexamine recovery methods. Thanks
                      >for your lucid explanation. I have not only repeated your
                      >examples to verify that they work, but I have also printed
                      >out your email and posted it above my keyboard for
                      >reference. Same for your tips on outline text.
                      >
                      >Occasionally one can learn more from an error than he
                      >suffered from the loss it caused. I am much obliged.
                      >
                      >Paul King

                      You are welcome. I am glad that I could help.

                      A special suggestion for you here for future reference is to go to
                      View|Options and select the File tab. Then check the "Make Backups" box
                      and under the drop down list titled "Backup Types" select "incremental".
                      Now whenever you save a file, NoteTab will automatically make a backup of
                      the previous file with an incremental extension (up to 999). Example:
                      Myoutline.otl will be updated when you save it and a backup copy of the old
                      file will be made with the name of Myoutline.001otl. If you update again,
                      another backup will be made of the second file with the name of
                      Myoutline.002otl and so forth. You can write a clip or a batch file to
                      periodically clean out the .???otl files from the NoteTab folders and run
                      it when you want to do this but in the mean time, you will have a copy
                      amonhg these backup files that you can recover lost text from.

                      Regards,

                      Larry
                      larryt@...
                    • Paul King
                      Hi Larry: I like your idea regarding incremental backups. Paul K. ... I have had the .bak extension here since acquiring ntp. But your suggestion makes more
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 4 2:38 PM
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                        Hi Larry:

                        I like your idea regarding incremental backups.

                        Paul K.

                        At 10:33 PM 7/3/00 -0500, you wrote:

                        >Hi Paul,
                        >
                        >At 04:07 PM 07/03/2000 -0700, you wrote:
                        > >Thanks Larry:
                        > >
                        > >It has been some time since I lost text in circumstances
                        > >which caused me to reexamine recovery methods. Thanks
                        > >for your lucid explanation. I have not only repeated your
                        > >examples to verify that they work, but I have also printed
                        > >out your email and posted it above my keyboard for
                        > >reference. Same for your tips on outline text.
                        > >
                        > >Occasionally one can learn more from an error than he
                        > >suffered from the loss it caused. I am much obliged.
                        > >
                        > >Paul King
                        >
                        >
                        >You are welcome. I am glad that I could help.
                        >
                        >A special suggestion for you here for future reference is to go to
                        >View|Options and select the File tab. Then check the "Make Backups" box
                        >and under the drop down list titled "Backup Types" select "incremental".

                        I have had the .bak extension here since acquiring ntp. But
                        your suggestion makes more sense, especially for those
                        files requiring frequent editing, I also print these out from
                        time to time and move the copies along by snail mail. More
                        and more, however, the text travels by email.

                        >Now whenever you save a file, NoteTab will automatically make a backup of
                        >the previous file with an incremental extension (up to 999). Example:
                        >Myoutline.otl will be updated when you save it and a backup copy of the old
                        >file will be made with the name of Myoutline.001otl. If you update again,
                        >another backup will be made of the second file with the name of
                        >Myoutline.002otl and so forth.

                        This is especially appropriate for my outline files. Many tasks
                        I formerly performed in WordPerfect I now perform in ntp
                        because of its speed and flexibility. Note Tab Pro has nearly
                        all of the functions I need for editing text.

                        > You can write a clip or a batch file to
                        >periodically clean out the .???otl files from the NoteTab folders and run
                        >it when you want to do this, but in the mean time, you will have a copy
                        >among these backup files that you can recover lost text from.
                        >
                        >Regards,
                        >
                        >Larry
                        >larryt@...
                      • Jim Hall
                        Paul, Larry and all, ... FWIW Though this thread hasn t quite gotten there yet,it is getting close so just a reminder in case you didn t see the past post
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 4 6:13 PM
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                          Paul, Larry and all,


                          >A special suggestion for you here for future reference is to go to
                          >View|Options and select the File tab. Then check the "Make Backups" box
                          >and under the drop down list titled "Backup Types" select "incremental".
                          >Now whenever you save a file, NoteTab will automatically make a backup of
                          >the previous file with an incremental extension (up to 999). Example:
                          >Myoutline.otl will be updated when you save it and a backup copy of the old
                          >file will be made with the name of Myoutline.001otl. If you update again,
                          >another backup will be made of the second file with the name of
                          >Myoutline.002otl and so forth. You can write a clip or a batch file to
                          >periodically clean out the .???otl files from the NoteTab folders and run
                          >it when you want to do this but in the mean time, you will have a copy
                          >amonhg these backup files that you can recover lost text from.

                          FWIW
                          Though this thread hasn't quite gotten there yet,it is getting close so
                          just a reminder in case you didn't see the past post regarding "UNDO AFTER
                          SAVE" with "AUTOSAVE TURNED ON". For some reason an autosave dumps the undo
                          list in 4.82. Eric is aware of this and it is on the list to be fixed. Just
                          be aware if you are working on something critical that it might be better
                          not to depend on the autosave option. Instead Manual Incremental Saves as
                          Larry has cited will be a lot safer.

                          Regards,

                          Jim
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