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Re: [NTB] Re: Loss of outline pages

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  • Paul King
    Hi Jody: ... I am resigned to the loss of the text and that is really of little concern to me. My real need is to avoid repetition of my error. If outline
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 1 6:36 PM
      Hi Jody:

      At 04:04 PM 7/1/00 -0500, you wrote:
      >Hi Paul,
      >
      > > I have just lost four pages from a current topic I have hard
      > > copy, but wish to recover my loss. Any hope?
      >
      >If they are no longer there and you do not have a backup, then
      >there is no hope. If you are still sitting there though waiting
      >for an answer before you close the Outline, just close it without
      >saving (unless you have Auto-save turned on). If by some chance
      >you did not close the file yet, see if you can use the Undo tool.
      >A few things could have caused text to be deleted, but I haven't
      >heard of NoteTab doing it and it has never happened to me except
      >on rare occasion during beta testing, but it was fixed.

      I am resigned to the loss of the text and that is really
      of little concern to me. My real need is to avoid repetition
      of my error. If outline files are touchy and unreliable, I
      will move my outline files elsewhere. I keep running files
      here, subject to periodic editing and periodic snail mail
      deadlines. Until now, I have no complaints about outline
      files.

      You have several times mentioned the large and prominent
      Print dialog box which does not figure at all in the error
      that caused my problem. I never saw it when the text
      vanished, but would have recognized it had it been there.

      I think we are communicating imperfectly here, Jody, but I
      thank you for the tips you have given me. I am responsible
      for failing to render a complete and lucid description of what
      I was doing and what I saw.

      > > As I recall, ntp asked whether I wanted to print the current
      > > topic or the the entire outline file. I chose current topic.
      >
      >OK.

      The language in this dialog box could be improved.
      It asks for a positive answer to print the entire outline
      and a negative answer to print only the current topic.

      > > I am unable to duplicate my subsequent error. I fail to find in
      > > Help any reference to printing options for Outline files.
      >
      >Once you answer the Topic/whole Outline question the options are
      >the same.
      Sorry about that. I read your comments to mean there were
      options specific to outline files in a separate dialog box, not
      a part of the familiar, large Print dialog box with four tabs along
      the top.


      > > Using Find failed to produce my copy.
      >
      >Try again and make sure you type in the search criteria correctly
      >and do not cross over hard line breaks if they are in the document.
      >It can be done easily in the search, but let's don't confuse things.
      >
      > > I never saw a dialog with more than two options
      > > nor can I make one appear.
      You said in your first post:

      >"As I recall, I was queried whether I wanted to print the specific
      >heading or the the entire outline file....Then I was asked
      >another question and apparently made the wrong choice."

      I have failed to explain clearly that these choices
      came in successive boxes, not the same dialog box.
      Each offered me two and only two choices.

      >The second question was probably the Print dialog.
      >
      >Do this. Open an Outline or focus one. Press Ctrl+P, use your
      >Print icon, or choose File | Print...
      >
      >At the time you will see your Topic or whole Outline question.
      >Next, the Print dialog should come up with your print options.
      >
      >Happy NoteTab'n,
      >Jody Adair

      I think we have just about squeezed all the juice out of this one.
      I'll post (to the whole list and especially Jody) again only if the
      error reoccurs.

      Paul King
    • Jody
      Hi Paul, ... They are not unreliable. ... That has been mentioned a number of times. Using the same dialog with the Yes/No buttons, how would you word it. To
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 1 7:21 PM
        Hi Paul,

        > If outline files are touchy and unreliable, I will move my
        > outline files elsewhere. I keep running files here, subject to
        > periodic editing and periodic snail mail deadlines. Until now,
        > I have no complaints about outline files.

        They are not unreliable.

        > The language in this dialog box could be improved. It asks for
        > a positive answer to print the entire outline and a negative
        > answer to print only the current topic.

        That has been mentioned a number of times. Using the same dialog
        with the Yes/No buttons, how would you word it. To make a new box
        for it would be added bloat for no really good reason. It is
        clearly stated on what to answer even though it is a bit awkward
        pressing No and still getting a result other than ending. :)

        > Sorry about that. I read your comments to mean there were
        > options specific to outline files in a separate dialog box, not
        > a part of the familiar, large Print dialog box with four tabs
        > along the top.

        Once you answer the Yes/No question everything is the same as
        printing a regular document. The only reason for the Yes/No
        question is to give you the option of printing the whole Outline
        or only the Topic.

        > I have failed to explain clearly that these choices came in
        > successive boxes, not the same dialog box. Each offered me two
        > and only two choices.

        That is really strange. I have no idea why you would get that.
        If you ever get it again could you take a screen shot of it and
        send it to me private eMail please? Are you doing the printing
        from a Clip by any chance?

        > I think we have just about squeezed all the juice out of this
        > one. I'll post (to the whole list and especially Jody) again
        > only if the error reoccurs.

        Feel free to keep posting until you understand how it works.
        Others know where the delete key is if they are not interested.

        Happy NoteTab'n,
        Jody Adair

        The NoteTabbers Assistant Page
        http://www.sureword.com/notetab

        The NoteTab Basic Discussion List
        mailto:NoteTab-Subscribe@...
        mailto:NoteTab-UnSubscribe@...
        http://www.egroups.com/group/notetab
      • Paul King
        Hi Listees: I have found my error which resulted in the loss of some outline text and here suggest a way of avoiding my mistake. It involves the Show Headings
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 2 12:57 AM
          Hi Listees:

          I have found my error which resulted in the loss of
          some outline text and here suggest a way of avoiding
          my mistake.

          It involves the Show Headings command and has nothing
          to do with printing or the Print dialog box.

          When outline files are active, outline headers appear in
          the left pane with the current topic text one is editing in
          the right pane.

          In my case, a heading appeared at the top of the current
          topic pane. I wanted to remove the heading, but was not
          aware that right clicking in the header pane would activate
          a menu box where I could make this happen.

          Show Heading, the bottom command in this menu
          box, is a toggle switch. Checking it will cause the heading
          to appear in the current topic pane. Unchecking it will delete
          the heading in the current topic pane.

          Instead of doing this, I highlighted the header in the current
          topic pane and hit the delete button. The heading vanished.
          Then I attempted to close the document and got a new dialog
          box: Confirm changes to the file with a yes/no choice.

          When I selected yes, a new Confirm dialog box appeared asking
          if I really meant to remove this file. Again I clicked yes and poof
          went my file. I have confirmed the result twice by repeating these
          steps with a test file.

          The moral is: be alert. Do not attempt to remove a header in the
          current topic pane by highlighting and deleting it. If you do, say
          Sayonara to your current topic file.

          Paul King
        • Jody
          Hi Paul, ... I am sure glad you figured it out! It would be many moons till I guessed at what happened. ;) About your last sentence above: NoteTab does not
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 2 10:14 PM
            Hi Paul,

            > When outline files are active, outline headers appear in the
            > left pane with the current topic text one is editing in the
            > right pane.
            >
            > In my case, a heading appeared at the top of the current topic
            > pane. I wanted to remove the heading, but was not aware that
            > right clicking in the header pane would activate a menu box
            > where I could make this happen.
            >
            > Show Heading, the bottom command in this menu box, is a toggle
            > switch. Checking it will cause the heading to appear in the
            > current topic pane. Unchecking it will delete the heading in
            > the current topic pane.

            I am sure glad you figured it out! It would be many moons till I
            guessed at what happened. ;) About your last sentence above:
            NoteTab does not delete the Heading as you probably figured, but
            simply hides it from the Topic content pane until Show Headings
            it clicked again. You will notice when you have Show Headings
            off that and Edit Heading appears on the menu, but when Headings
            are showing it is not there. That is because you edit the
            heading in the Topic pane when it is in there.

            I deleted a few a couple years ago like you did myself. <g>

            Happy NoteTab'n,
            Jody Adair

            The NoteTabbers Assistant Page
            http://www.sureword.com/notetab

            The NoteTab Basic Discussion List
            mailto:NoteTab-Subscribe@...
            mailto:NoteTab-UnSubscribe@...
            http://www.egroups.com/group/notetab
          • Paul King
            ... Hi Jody and listees: Hide is indeed the operative word, not delete. But you see I was targeting the header for deletion because I didn t want it in the
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 3 1:11 AM
              At 12:14 AM 7/3/00 -0500, Jody wrote:
              >Hi Paul,
              >
              >NoteTab does not delete the Heading as you probably figured, but
              >simply hides it from the Topic content pane until Show Headings
              >it clicked again. You will notice when you have Show Headings
              >off that and Edit Heading appears on the menu, but when Headings
              >are showing it is not there. That is because you edit the
              >heading in the Topic pane when it is in there.
              >
              >I deleted a few a couple years ago like you did myself. <g>

              Hi Jody and listees:

              Hide is indeed the operative word, not delete. But you see I
              was targeting the header for deletion because I didn't want it
              in the printed copy. By following this path, I ended up deleting
              the entire text by mistake and went too far to undo the command.
              And I erroneously blamed my mistake on the Print command.

              PK
            • David McIntosh
              Hi Paul Have you checked the recycle bin. thankyou dave
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 3 6:31 AM
                Hi Paul
                Have you checked the recycle bin.
                thankyou dave

                Paul King wrote:
                >
                > Hi Jody:
                >
                > I have just lost four pages from an outline heading (plus
                > the heading), I have a hard copy, but wish to recover
                > my loss. Any hope?
                >
                > As I recall, I was queried whether I wanted to print the
                > specific heading or the the entire outline file. I chose
                > the specific heading.
                >
                > Then I was asked another question and apparently made
                > the wrong choice. This a new error for me, thus pushing
                > up my grand total to a new high. 8--(
                >
                > Paul King
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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              • Paul King
                ... Hi Dave: I was not ignoring your attempt to help me. For some reason I saw your email for the first time this A. M. As I understand it, there is no
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 3 12:11 PM
                  At 11:31 PM 7/3/00 +1000, you wrote:
                  >Hi Paul
                  >Have you checked the recycle bin.
                  > thankyou dave
                  >
                  >Paul King wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi Jody:
                  > >
                  > > I have just lost four pages from an outline heading (plus
                  > > the heading), I have a hard copy, but wish to recover
                  > > my loss. Any hope?
                  > >
                  > > Paul King


                  Hi Dave:

                  I was not ignoring your attempt to help me. For some reason
                  I saw your email for the first time this A. M. As I understand
                  it, there is no recourse to recovery from the trash bin in ntp.
                  The only option for text recovery is the Undo command which,
                  of course, you must use immediately after the loss or the copy
                  is gone forever. On occasion, Find may locate errant copy if
                  it still exists.

                  If I have this wrong, I'm sure it will be corrected immediately
                  by more than one person on the list. If you have been following
                  this thread, you can see how I discovered the cause of my loss.
                  It was a puzzling (and thoughtless) mistake on my part,

                  Thanks,
                  Paul King
                • Larry Thomas
                  Hi Paul and Dave, ... There are several ways to lose and recover text and files in NoteTab. In the case of simply deleting the whole file, NoteTab does in
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 3 2:44 PM
                    Hi Paul and Dave,

                    At 12:11 PM 07/03/2000 -0700, you wrote:
                    >Hi Dave:
                    >
                    >I was not ignoring your attempt to help me. For some reason
                    >I saw your email for the first time this A. M. As I understand
                    >it, there is no recourse to recovery from the trash bin in ntp.
                    >The only option for text recovery is the Undo command which,
                    >of course, you must use immediately after the loss or the copy
                    >is gone forever. On occasion, Find may locate errant copy if
                    >it still exists.
                    >
                    >If I have this wrong, I'm sure it will be corrected immediately
                    >by more than one person on the list. If you have been following
                    >this thread, you can see how I discovered the cause of my loss.
                    >It was a puzzling (and thoughtless) mistake on my part,
                    >
                    >Thanks,
                    >Paul King

                    There are several ways to lose and recover text and files in NoteTab. In
                    the case of simply deleting the whole file, NoteTab does in fact send it to
                    the recycle bin and you can recover it from there. In the case of deleting
                    text from within a file but not the file itself as you did with your
                    outline, there are two possible options.

                    A) If you have not saved the file after deleting the text and the text was
                    in the original file when you opened it, you can reload the file to recover
                    the text.

                    B) If (1) you have set the undo option to "Undo after Save" and (2) you
                    have not deleted an amount of text that is larger than undo can handle and
                    (3) you have not terminated NoteTab and then restarted it (which will clear
                    the undo option) then you can undo it. Undo has a history list and if you
                    have made several text changes but they are not too large for this function
                    then you can undo them one at a time starting with the last change you made
                    and progressively using undo to reverse the previous ones going from the
                    last change to the first one you made.

                    Regards,

                    Larry
                    larryt@...
                  • Paul King
                    ... Thanks Larry: It has been some time since I lost text in circumstances which caused me to reexamine recovery methods. Thanks for your lucid explanation. I
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 3 4:07 PM
                      At 04:44 PM 7/3/00 -0500, you wrote:

                      >Hi Paul and Dave,
                      >
                      >At 12:11 PM 07/03/2000 -0700, you wrote:
                      > >Hi Dave:
                      > >
                      > >I was not ignoring your attempt to help me. For some reason
                      > >I saw your email for the first time this A. M. As I understand
                      > >it, there is no recourse to recovery from the trash bin in ntp.
                      > >The only option for text recovery is the Undo command which,
                      > >of course, you must use immediately after the loss or the copy
                      > >is gone forever. On occasion, Find may locate errant copy if
                      > >it still exists.
                      >
                      > >Thanks,
                      > >Paul King
                      >
                      >There are several ways to lose and recover text and files in NoteTab. In
                      >the case of simply deleting the whole file, NoteTab does in fact send it to
                      >the recycle bin and you can recover it from there. In the case of deleting
                      >text from within a file but not the file itself as you did with your
                      >outline, there are two possible options.
                      >
                      >A) If you have not saved the file after deleting the text and the text was
                      >in the original file when you opened it, you can reload the file to recover
                      >the text.
                      >
                      >B) If (1) you have set the undo option to "Undo after Save" and (2) you
                      >have not deleted an amount of text that is larger than undo can handle and
                      >(3) you have not terminated NoteTab and then restarted it (which will clear
                      >the undo option) then you can undo it. Undo has a history list and if you
                      >have made several text changes but they are not too large for this function
                      >then you can undo them one at a time starting with the last change you made
                      >and progressively using undo to reverse the previous ones going from the
                      >last change to the first one you made.
                      >
                      >Regards,
                      >
                      >Larry
                      >larryt@...


                      Thanks Larry:

                      It has been some time since I lost text in circumstances
                      which caused me to reexamine recovery methods. Thanks
                      for your lucid explanation. I have not only repeated your
                      examples to verify that they work, but I have also printed
                      out your email and posted it above my keyboard for
                      reference. Same for your tips on outline text.

                      Occasionally one can learn more from an error than he
                      suffered from the loss it caused. I am much obliged.

                      Paul King
                    • Larry Thomas
                      Hi Paul, ... You are welcome. I am glad that I could help. A special suggestion for you here for future reference is to go to View|Options and select the File
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 3 8:33 PM
                        Hi Paul,

                        At 04:07 PM 07/03/2000 -0700, you wrote:
                        >Thanks Larry:
                        >
                        >It has been some time since I lost text in circumstances
                        >which caused me to reexamine recovery methods. Thanks
                        >for your lucid explanation. I have not only repeated your
                        >examples to verify that they work, but I have also printed
                        >out your email and posted it above my keyboard for
                        >reference. Same for your tips on outline text.
                        >
                        >Occasionally one can learn more from an error than he
                        >suffered from the loss it caused. I am much obliged.
                        >
                        >Paul King

                        You are welcome. I am glad that I could help.

                        A special suggestion for you here for future reference is to go to
                        View|Options and select the File tab. Then check the "Make Backups" box
                        and under the drop down list titled "Backup Types" select "incremental".
                        Now whenever you save a file, NoteTab will automatically make a backup of
                        the previous file with an incremental extension (up to 999). Example:
                        Myoutline.otl will be updated when you save it and a backup copy of the old
                        file will be made with the name of Myoutline.001otl. If you update again,
                        another backup will be made of the second file with the name of
                        Myoutline.002otl and so forth. You can write a clip or a batch file to
                        periodically clean out the .???otl files from the NoteTab folders and run
                        it when you want to do this but in the mean time, you will have a copy
                        amonhg these backup files that you can recover lost text from.

                        Regards,

                        Larry
                        larryt@...
                      • Paul King
                        Hi Larry: I like your idea regarding incremental backups. Paul K. ... I have had the .bak extension here since acquiring ntp. But your suggestion makes more
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 4 2:38 PM
                          Hi Larry:

                          I like your idea regarding incremental backups.

                          Paul K.

                          At 10:33 PM 7/3/00 -0500, you wrote:

                          >Hi Paul,
                          >
                          >At 04:07 PM 07/03/2000 -0700, you wrote:
                          > >Thanks Larry:
                          > >
                          > >It has been some time since I lost text in circumstances
                          > >which caused me to reexamine recovery methods. Thanks
                          > >for your lucid explanation. I have not only repeated your
                          > >examples to verify that they work, but I have also printed
                          > >out your email and posted it above my keyboard for
                          > >reference. Same for your tips on outline text.
                          > >
                          > >Occasionally one can learn more from an error than he
                          > >suffered from the loss it caused. I am much obliged.
                          > >
                          > >Paul King
                          >
                          >
                          >You are welcome. I am glad that I could help.
                          >
                          >A special suggestion for you here for future reference is to go to
                          >View|Options and select the File tab. Then check the "Make Backups" box
                          >and under the drop down list titled "Backup Types" select "incremental".

                          I have had the .bak extension here since acquiring ntp. But
                          your suggestion makes more sense, especially for those
                          files requiring frequent editing, I also print these out from
                          time to time and move the copies along by snail mail. More
                          and more, however, the text travels by email.

                          >Now whenever you save a file, NoteTab will automatically make a backup of
                          >the previous file with an incremental extension (up to 999). Example:
                          >Myoutline.otl will be updated when you save it and a backup copy of the old
                          >file will be made with the name of Myoutline.001otl. If you update again,
                          >another backup will be made of the second file with the name of
                          >Myoutline.002otl and so forth.

                          This is especially appropriate for my outline files. Many tasks
                          I formerly performed in WordPerfect I now perform in ntp
                          because of its speed and flexibility. Note Tab Pro has nearly
                          all of the functions I need for editing text.

                          > You can write a clip or a batch file to
                          >periodically clean out the .???otl files from the NoteTab folders and run
                          >it when you want to do this, but in the mean time, you will have a copy
                          >among these backup files that you can recover lost text from.
                          >
                          >Regards,
                          >
                          >Larry
                          >larryt@...
                        • Jim Hall
                          Paul, Larry and all, ... FWIW Though this thread hasn t quite gotten there yet,it is getting close so just a reminder in case you didn t see the past post
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jul 4 6:13 PM
                            Paul, Larry and all,


                            >A special suggestion for you here for future reference is to go to
                            >View|Options and select the File tab. Then check the "Make Backups" box
                            >and under the drop down list titled "Backup Types" select "incremental".
                            >Now whenever you save a file, NoteTab will automatically make a backup of
                            >the previous file with an incremental extension (up to 999). Example:
                            >Myoutline.otl will be updated when you save it and a backup copy of the old
                            >file will be made with the name of Myoutline.001otl. If you update again,
                            >another backup will be made of the second file with the name of
                            >Myoutline.002otl and so forth. You can write a clip or a batch file to
                            >periodically clean out the .???otl files from the NoteTab folders and run
                            >it when you want to do this but in the mean time, you will have a copy
                            >amonhg these backup files that you can recover lost text from.

                            FWIW
                            Though this thread hasn't quite gotten there yet,it is getting close so
                            just a reminder in case you didn't see the past post regarding "UNDO AFTER
                            SAVE" with "AUTOSAVE TURNED ON". For some reason an autosave dumps the undo
                            list in 4.82. Eric is aware of this and it is on the list to be fixed. Just
                            be aware if you are working on something critical that it might be better
                            not to depend on the autosave option. Instead Manual Incremental Saves as
                            Larry has cited will be a lot safer.

                            Regards,

                            Jim
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