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[NTB] Re: Favorites

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  • Eric G.V. Fookes
    Hi Sami, ... Actually, I have spent a good deal of time today improving the Favorites menu. The main changes you will find in the upcoming update is that the
    Message 1 of 16 , Oct 2, 1998
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      Hi Sami,

      >As I mentioned earlier (NoteTab advanced list), the way NoteTab's
      >Favorites menu works is less than ideal. Instead of going into details
      >about the downsides of the current implementation, I'll describe an
      >alternative which I think might be better. Any suggestions, comments and
      >criticism is very much appreciated.

      Actually, I have spent a good deal of time today improving the Favorites
      menu. The main changes you will find in the upcoming update is that the
      Categories listing now branch on to display submenus with their file
      listing. When you pick a file from one of these categories, the category
      becomes the default list (as it is in the current version), and the chosen
      file(s)/directory is opened. Each of these submenus also include a command
      to open all files.

      I hope these changes will make the Favorites feature more appealing to
      NoteTab users.

      Regards,


      Eric G.V. Fookes <fookes@...>
      -----------------------------------------------------------------
      Author of the award-winning NoteTab 4.5 text editors for Windows
      http://www.notetab.com/ or http://www.notetab.ch/
      NoteTab Pro is a winner of the 1998 PC Magazine Shareware Awards
      and the 1998 People's Choice Award

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    • Sami Jarvinen
      As I mentioned earlier (NoteTab advanced list), the way NoteTab s Favorites menu works is less than ideal. Instead of going into details about the downsides of
      Message 2 of 16 , Oct 2, 1998
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        As I mentioned earlier (NoteTab advanced list), the way NoteTab's
        Favorites menu works is less than ideal. Instead of going into details
        about the downsides of the current implementation, I'll describe an
        alternative which I think might be better. Any suggestions, comments and
        criticism is very much appreciated.

        The "categories" would be subdirectories in the Favorites directory.
        These directories would contain shortcuts (!) to the documents contained
        in the category. The Favorites menu would contain submenus for each
        category (directory), and these submenus would show the documents in the
        category (shortcuts in the directory). The submenus would also contain
        the following commands: open all documents, close all documents.
        Clicking on a document in a category listing would of course open that
        file. The categories and files on the menu would also have a popup menu
        (activated by RMB) with the following commands: open, cut, copy, delete.

        The popup menu of the file tabs would contain these commands: add
        document to favorites, add all documents to favorites. When these
        commands are selected, a new dialog would be presented where the
        destination category can be selected.

        I know I missed some necessary commands.

        Pros:
        + easy to use
        + since the favorites are actually directories and shortcuts, they would
        be
        easy to organize outside of NoteTab

        Cons:
        - slower
        - more complex (from programmer's point of view)

        It's the structure of the favorites menu that matters the most to me, I
        will be happy even if the old .fvr files remain :)


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      • R.S.
        Hi Eric, ... They will, for sure. It is certainly a big improvement. But I still think the Categories should be a separate menu. Here are some reasons: A)
        Message 3 of 16 , Oct 2, 1998
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          Hi Eric,

          At 09:38 PM 10/02/98 +0200, you wrote:

          >Actually, I have spent a good deal of time today improving the Favorites
          >menu. The main changes you will find in the upcoming update is that the
          >Categories listing now branch on to display submenus with their file
          >listing. When you pick a file from one of these categories, the category
          >becomes the default list (as it is in the current version), and the chosen
          >file(s)/directory is opened. Each of these submenus also include a command
          >to open all files.
          >
          >I hope these changes will make the Favorites feature more appealing to
          >NoteTab users.

          They will, for sure. It is certainly a big improvement. But I still think
          the Categories should be a separate menu.

          Here are some reasons:

          A) EASIER ACCESSIBILITY.- We often need to access a file in a different
          Category. The procedure now will be:

          1. Click on Favorites
          2. Go down (with the mouse) to Categories
          3. Go to the Left
          4. Go down to the desired Category
          5. Go to the right to choose a file

          While with a Categories menu that would be shortened to:

          1. Click on Categories
          2. Go down to the desired Category
          3. Go to the right to choose a file


          B) CONVENIENCE.- The idea should be to keep the Favorites menu independent
          from the Category menu. In this last one, you access files from other
          Categories, without switching to another Category.

          I don't believe to be the only one that has a "favorite" Favorites category
          that's open most of the time. The other Categories are accessed
          occasionally when the need arises. So the real CONVENIENCE is to keep this
          principal Category open all the time. We don't want to be switched to
          another Category just because we accessed a file in this second one. We
          want the Favorites to keep listing our preferred Category.

          And this is the real advantage of accessing the Categories as submenus:
          that you don't need to switch Categories.

          PLEASE, do not include an undesired auto-switch in it!


          Regards,


          RS

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        • R.S.
          Hi Sami, ... Have you checked Wayne s Project Manager? It gives you greater flexibility for this. http://www2.localaccess.com/waynemv/notetab.htm Regards, RS
          Message 4 of 16 , Oct 2, 1998
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            Hi Sami,

            At 11:55 PM 10/02/98 +0200, you wrote:
            >> That's somewhat harder to implement because Favorite items
            >> can contain wild cards, or references to other Favorite lists. But it
            >is
            >> something I could try to add to the next major release if there is
            >enough
            >> interest for such a feature.
            >
            >At least I think it's very useful. I often have a large project
            >(category) open and some files which are not part of the project. If I
            >want to close the project but not the other files... you see?
            >

            Have you checked Wayne's Project Manager? It gives you greater flexibility
            for this.

            http://www2.localaccess.com/waynemv/notetab.htm


            Regards,


            RS

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          • Eric G.V. Fookes
            Hi Sami, ... That s somewhat harder to implement because Favorite items can contain wild cards, or references to other Favorite lists. But it is something I
            Message 5 of 16 , Oct 2, 1998
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              Hi Sami,

              >> opened. Each of these submenus also include a command to open all
              >files.
              >
              >There should also be a command to close all files which belong to that
              >category.

              That's somewhat harder to implement because Favorite items can contain wild
              cards, or references to other Favorite lists. But it is something I could
              try to add to the next major release if there is enough interest for such a
              feature.

              Regards,


              Eric G.V. Fookes <fookes@...>
              -----------------------------------------------------------------
              Author of the award-winning NoteTab 4.5 text editors for Windows
              http://www.notetab.com/ or http://www.notetab.ch/
              NoteTab Pro is a winner of the 1998 PC Magazine Shareware Awards
              and the 1998 People's Choice Award

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            • mjlohj@hughes.net
              Hi Sami; Your comments are of interest since I am looking at methods to organize groups of files. Does the following text diagram describe what you have in
              Message 6 of 16 , Oct 2, 1998
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                Hi Sami;

                Your comments are of interest since I am looking at methods to
                organize groups of files. Does the following text diagram
                describe what you have in mind?

                Favorites (selected)

                Catagory 1
                Catagory 2-----File a (Catagory 2 selected, typical)
                Catagory 3 File b
                Catagory 4 File c-----Open (File c selected, typical)
                etc. File d Cut
                etc. Copy
                Add Delete
                AddAll
                DeleteAll

                If I understand correctly,
                Favorites would correlate to a directory.
                Each catagory would correlate to a folder in the directory.
                Each folder would contain the files showen in that sub-menu.

                Comments welcome, Len

                At 09:57 PM 10/2/98 +0200, you wrote:
                * As I mentioned earlier (NoteTab advanced list), the way NoteTab's
                * Favorites menu works is less than ideal.
                * Instead of going into details about the downsides of the current
                * implementation, I'll describe an alternative which I think might
                * be better.
                * Any suggestions, comments and criticism is very much appreciated.

                * The "categories" would be subdirectories in the Favorites
                * directory.
                * These directories would contain shortcuts (!) to the documents
                * contained in the category.
                * The Favorites menu would contain submenus for each category
                * (directory),
                * and these submenus would show the documents in the category
                * (shortcuts in the directory).
                * The submenus would also contain the following commands:
                * open all documents,
                * close all documents.
                * Clicking on a document in a category listing would of course open
                * that file.
                * The categories and files on the menu would also have a popup menu
                * (activated by RMB) with the following commands:
                * open, cut, copy, delete.

                * The popup menu of the file tabs would contain these commands:
                * add document to favorites,
                * add all documents to favorites.
                * When these commands are selected, a new dialog would be presented
                * where the destination category can be selected.



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              • Sami Jarvinen
                ... Favorites ... Fantastic! ... files. There should also be a command to close all files which belong to that category.
                Message 7 of 16 , Oct 2, 1998
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                  > Actually, I have spent a good deal of time today improving the
                  Favorites
                  > menu.

                  Fantastic!

                  > opened. Each of these submenus also include a command to open all
                  files.

                  There should also be a command to close all files which belong to that
                  category.


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                • Eric G.V. Fookes
                  Hi Sami, ... I sometimes find myself in that situation, particularly when I want to make changes across all my web pages. All I do is open a second instance of
                  Message 8 of 16 , Oct 2, 1998
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                    Hi Sami,

                    >> That's somewhat harder to implement because Favorite items
                    >> can contain wild cards, or references to other Favorite lists. But it
                    >is
                    >> something I could try to add to the next major release if there is
                    >enough
                    >> interest for such a feature.
                    >
                    >At least I think it's very useful. I often have a large project
                    >(category) open and some files which are not part of the project. If I
                    >want to close the project but not the other files... you see?

                    I sometimes find myself in that situation, particularly when I want to make
                    changes across all my web pages. All I do is open a second instance of
                    NoteTab and load the Favorites files. When I do this, I know I can safely
                    to global search/replace through all open documents without risking to
                    change unrelated files. At least this method works well for me.

                    Regards,


                    Eric G.V. Fookes <fookes@...>
                    -----------------------------------------------------------------
                    Author of the award-winning NoteTab 4.5 text editors for Windows
                    http://www.notetab.com/ or http://www.notetab.ch/
                    NoteTab Pro is a winner of the 1998 PC Magazine Shareware Awards
                    and the 1998 People's Choice Award

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                  • Eric G.V. Fookes
                    Hi R.S., ... I think the preference is very personal. I m sure many user would actually want the auto-switch, and many others would agree with you. I could
                    Message 9 of 16 , Oct 2, 1998
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                      Hi R.S.,

                      >And this is the real advantage of accessing the Categories as submenus:
                      >that you don't need to switch Categories.
                      >
                      >PLEASE, do not include an undesired auto-switch in it!

                      I think the preference is very personal. I'm sure many user would actually
                      want the auto-switch, and many others would agree with you. I could always
                      add another option in NoteTab, but so many people are already complaining
                      that there are too many options... It's impossible to please everybody :-(

                      BTW, have you tried your QuickSort program with the latest pre-release
                      update? Is it faster now?

                      Regards,


                      Eric G.V. Fookes <fookes@...>
                      -----------------------------------------------------------------
                      Author of the award-winning NoteTab 4.5 text editors for Windows
                      http://www.notetab.com/ or http://www.notetab.ch/
                      NoteTab Pro is a winner of the 1998 PC Magazine Shareware Awards
                      and the 1998 People's Choice Award

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                    • Jody Adair
                      Hi Sami, ... I would think that a pull down list with multiple pull down lists from each of them would be nice like some Windows programs have and the
                      Message 10 of 16 , Oct 2, 1998
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                        Hi Sami,

                        >The "categories" would be subdirectories in the Favorites directory.
                        >These directories would contain shortcuts (!) to the documents contained
                        >in the category. The Favorites menu would contain submenus for each
                        >category (directory), and these submenus would show the documents in the
                        >category (shortcuts in the directory).

                        I would think that a pull down list with multiple pull down
                        lists from each of them would be nice like some Windows
                        programs have and the browsers.

                        Have you tried making a Favorites directory called say "Directory?" :)

                        Directory (Category)
                        :Category 1 (Points to Category 1)
                        :Category 2 (Points to Category 2)
                        :Category 3 (Points to Category 3)

                        Those point to other Favorites, or Categories I believe is
                        the correct term. The colon tells NoteTab to look for that
                        Category.

                        Then in each of your Categories you have the files you want
                        to open which can be a whole folder (Path\*.*), file type(s)
                        (Path\*.*htm*), group of files, or another file type(s).

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                      • Sami Jarvinen
                        ... is ... enough ... At least I think it s very useful. I often have a large project (category) open and some files which are not part of the project. If I
                        Message 11 of 16 , Oct 2, 1998
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                          > That's somewhat harder to implement because Favorite items
                          > can contain wild cards, or references to other Favorite lists. But it
                          is
                          > something I could try to add to the next major release if there is
                          enough
                          > interest for such a feature.

                          At least I think it's very useful. I often have a large project
                          (category) open and some files which are not part of the project. If I
                          want to close the project but not the other files... you see?


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                        • Sami Jarvinen
                          ... Not exactly but close enough. ... Correct, except that directory = folder :) ______________________________________________________________________
                          Message 12 of 16 , Oct 2, 1998
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                            > Your comments are of interest since I am looking at methods to
                            > organize groups of files. Does the following text diagram
                            > describe what you have in mind?
                            >
                            > Favorites (selected)
                            >
                            > Catagory 1
                            > Catagory 2-----File a (Catagory 2 selected, typical)
                            > Catagory 3 File b
                            > Catagory 4 File c-----Open (File c selected, typical)
                            > etc. File d Cut
                            > etc. Copy
                            > Add Delete
                            > AddAll
                            > DeleteAll

                            Not exactly but close enough.

                            > If I understand correctly,
                            > Favorites would correlate to a directory.
                            > Each catagory would correlate to a folder in the directory.
                            > Each folder would contain the files showen in that sub-menu.

                            Correct, except that "directory" = "folder" :)

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                          • Sami Jarvinen
                            ... I ... I ve tried it. The problem is that it s too complicated, the GUI is... well, you simply can t do a good GUI with clips.
                            Message 13 of 16 , Oct 2, 1998
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                              >> At least I think it's very useful. I often have a large project
                              >> (category) open and some files which are not part of the project. If
                              I
                              >> want to close the project but not the other files... you see?
                              > Have you checked Wayne's Project Manager? It gives you
                              > greater flexibility
                              > for this.
                              > http://www2.localaccess.com/waynemv/notetab.htm

                              I've tried it. The problem is that it's too complicated, the GUI is...
                              well, you simply can't do a good GUI with clips.


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                            • R.S.
                              Hi Sami, ... I wonder if we are speaking of the same thing. I m the first one to abhor complicated programs, and I have very little patience for those (the
                              Message 14 of 16 , Oct 2, 1998
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                                Hi Sami,

                                At 01:15 AM 10/03/98 +0200, you wrote:

                                >>> I often have a large project
                                >>> (category) open and some files which are not part of the project. If I
                                >>> want to close the project but not the other files... you see?

                                >> Have you checked Wayne's Project Manager? It gives you
                                >> greater flexibility
                                >> for this.
                                >> http://www2.localaccess.com/waynemv/notetab.htm

                                >
                                >I've tried it. The problem is that it's too complicated, the GUI is...
                                >well, you simply can't do a good GUI with clips.

                                I wonder if we are speaking of the same thing. I'm the first one to abhor
                                complicated programs, and I have very little patience for those (the
                                average is five minutes). Project Manager seems very simple and intuitive
                                to me. Its interface, which in the first version was unfriendly and
                                confusing, has improved radically in version 2.22. And I really doubt it
                                can get much better.

                                As for your affirmation that you "can't do a good GUI with clips", I have
                                to disagree. Actually, this is the best Interface I've seen in a Clip.


                                Regards,


                                RS

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                              • R.S.
                                Hi Eric, At 11:18 PM 10/02/98 +0200, you wrote: 1) ... By all means, add an option; and have us all happy. -:) What about the separate menu for Categories? [
                                Message 15 of 16 , Oct 2, 1998
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                                  Hi Eric,

                                  At 11:18 PM 10/02/98 +0200, you wrote:

                                  1)
                                  >>And this is the real advantage of accessing the Categories as submenus:
                                  >>that you don't need to switch Categories.
                                  >>
                                  >>PLEASE, do not include an undesired auto-switch in it!
                                  >
                                  >I think the preference is very personal. I'm sure many user would actually
                                  >want the auto-switch, and many others would agree with you. I could always
                                  >add another option in NoteTab, but so many people are already complaining
                                  >that there are too many options... It's impossible to please everybody :-(
                                  >

                                  By all means, add an option; and have us all happy. -:)

                                  What about the separate menu for Categories?

                                  [ Let me add, lest someone sees faults in what I'm asking for, that there
                                  should always be an option, either in the Favorites or in the Category
                                  menu, for when you want to shift the Category that is displayed in Favorites].

                                  _______________

                                  2)
                                  >BTW, have you tried your QuickSort program with the latest pre-release
                                  >update? Is it faster now?
                                  >


                                  Wow! I just tried it, and it took an staggering two and a half seconds!!!

                                  Here's the comparison chart:

                                  Qsort.exe:
                                  ---------
                                  NTP4.5 : 25"
                                  NTP4.51a : 26"
                                  NTP4.51b : 2" - 3"

                                  Congratulations! And thanks a lot!!



                                  Regards,


                                  RS

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                                • Sami Jarvinen
                                  ... have ... When you re limited to comboboxes and lists, it simply can t be very good. ... Seems to me we re not talking about the same thing here. You seem
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Oct 3, 1998
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                                    > As for your affirmation that you "can't do a good GUI with clips", I
                                    have
                                    > to disagree.

                                    When you're limited to comboboxes and lists, it simply can't be very
                                    good.

                                    > Actually, this is the best Interface I've seen in a Clip.

                                    Seems to me we're not talking about the same thing here. You seem to be
                                    comparing Project Manager's GUI with other clips' GUIs, while I'm
                                    talking about the clip language's GUI design capabilities in general.

                                    What I'm trying to say is that Project Manager's GUI may be as good as
                                    it can be, but it still isn't good because of the limitations of the
                                    clip language.


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