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Re: [NTB] Unlocking files on vr 6.1 pro

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  • Andy M
    GDay Art, See my response below. -- Regards Andy M ... As for John, I found his attempt at humour to be inept and offensive. There was no need for it at all,
    Message 1 of 19 , Jul 24 6:04 PM
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      GDay Art,

      See my response below.

      --
      Regards
      Andy M



      Art Kocsis wrote:
      > At 7/23/2013 04:23 PM, Andy M wrote:
      > John was trying to point out the inappropriateness and incompleteness of
      > the original question as well as the laziness of a lot of posters.

      As for John, I found his attempt at humour to be inept and offensive.
      There was no need for it at all, hence my response.

      > To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln: It is better to remain a lurker than to
      > post a dumb question and remove all doubt. All too often I see posts on
      > forums asking simple questions such as the meaning of a word that are
      > easily and accurately answered by a simple Google search.

      I very much doubt that 'Abe' had anything to say on the matter ... lol

      Why would you resort to Google if you were thinking 'Notetab' and you
      were in a Notetab related forum?

      While I agree in principle that it is often more productive to use
      Google, sometimes one's perceptions are coloured by one's lack of
      knowledge. That may apply to anyone ;)

      > And when the question is appropriate for the forum, all too often it is
      > like the stereotypical automobile question: "It doesn't work. What is
      > wrong?"

      Yes, some people lack the skills to attack such a problem and rely on
      'others' to answer the question for them. Information is always required
      but if you don't answer the question asked you will never get to that
      information.

      > It is a losing battle but John was still trying to improve the world.

      I'm sure you could think of a better way of addressing the issue?

      > And FYI, a "locked" file is NOT controlled by the UAC. A file is
      > "locked" by an application to gain sole access in order to avoid file
      > corruption. It is an individual file/application level (file system),
      > access control declaring the current "in use" status of a file. It is a
      > file system/application access control mechanism for individual file
      > access. This is a standard IT definition in use long before the idea of
      > Windows was stolen from GEM by Gates in the early 80s.

      In this instance the locked file IS controlled by the UAC. The file is
      locked because it's access is deemed 'unauthorised'. This often occurs
      when UAC is turned on and third party programs access restricted
      folders. It will also occur if a file is downloaded from the net
      directly into a Windows controlled folder other than the 'Downloads' folder.

      Yes, it wasn't the only thing 'acquired' by Mr. Gates in the early years
      ... lol

      > The UAC and ACL are system level access control mechanisms for system
      > objects such as entire folders, file groups, keys as well as single
      > files and apply to individual users. Their purpose is system security
      > not file corruption and may trigger the dreaded "Access denied"
      > messages. Access to system objects is based on user status, policy
      > settings, file ownership, etc. I.e., access depends on the current
      > "security clearance" of the user with respect to the specific object.

      Yes, you are correct about that but it is usually the ACL that is
      involved when files are locked because of anti-corruption and 'in use'
      mechanisms within some programs. In this case though, it is the UAC that
      does the locking.

      > Art
    • Andy M
      GDay Wayne, Corruption of the ACL can occur when transferring files but in this case the files are locked by the UAC because access to them has been deemed
      Message 2 of 19 , Jul 24 6:29 PM
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        GDay Wayne,

        Corruption of the ACL can occur when transferring files but in this case
        the files are locked by the UAC because access to them has been deemed
        'unauthorised'. This occurs because the third party program has been
        given an incorrect ID or access level or that ID is somehow corrupted
        and it does not match the expected ID or access level at the time of
        writing the file to disk.

        It is part of the UAC and turning off UAC resolves the issue. However,
        it is often better to leave the UAC on and simply elevate the related
        program to administrator status by setting the 'Run as administrator'
        option or simply right clicking on a programs shortcut and choosing that
        option.

        Unfortunately, in Windows, there are many ways in which the ACL becomes
        corrupted or 'out of sync' as you have found and described.

        There is also some malware that will corrupt the ACL as well and that
        can be a nightmare to resolve, I can tell ya ... lol

        --
        Regards
        Andy M



        Wayne VanWeerthuizen wrote:
        > On 7/23/2013 9:03 AM, iteambiz wrote:
        > > I have been trying to transfer my files from one computer to my
        > laptop with negative results. I can transfer all the old files that are
        > unlocked but my new files are all locked and will not transfer. I don't
        > understand why all new files are locked. I know it has something to do
        > with property and permissions but how do I unlock the files or insure
        > all new files are not locked? I am using 6.1 full version. Any help
        > would be appreciated.
        > >
        >
        > If your problem is the same as what I've seen before (when transferring
        > files using external USB
        > harddrives permissions can get messed up this way) this should fix it.
        > But try to make sure you
        > know what you are doing, Google for more information if need be, since
        > this could also mess things
        > up worse if done wrong.
        >
        > It sounds like the ownership of the files may have got corrupted. Each
        > file and folder is "owned"
        > by a particular user account on its machine. (Even if accounts on
        > different machines have the same
        > user name, they can still have different hidden user ID numbers for the
        > owners of the files.) On
        > rare occasions this problem occurs when files are owned by an account
        > created on different machine
        > than the where the files are actually located. This can occur with files
        > written by another machine
        > to a folder on an external drive that doesn't have default security
        > settings.
        >
        > Try going to a folder that contains all the files you are concerned
        > about (but which if possible,
        > doesn't contain any system folders, as you don't want to weaken the
        > security on them. The steps
        > below are generally safe to do with your My Documents folder, but could
        > cause security weaknesses
        > if done on the Windows folder or the Program Files folder.) Then select
        > that folder's properties,
        > and then click the Security tab, then clicked advanced, then click the
        > owner tab. Click edit at
        > the bottom, then change the owner to your user name, and make sure
        > replace user on subcontainers
        > and objects is checked. Then it will fix the owner of all the files at
        > once when you click okay,
        > and it may take several minutes.
        >
        > Then close windows until you are back to the security tab. Click edit.
        > If your username is not
        > in the list that appears, use add to add it. Give yourself full control
        > then click okay. Now
        > wait again while the permissions are fixed on all the files in the
        > selected folder and its
        > subfolders.
        >
        > Next go back to the general properties tab for the folder, and make sure
        > read only is cleared.
        > Click ok and then click "apply to this folder, subfolders, and files."
        > Wait again for Windows
        > to process the files.
        >
        > Now all there shouldn't be any permission settings preventing you from
        > reading and writing
        > any file in that folder.
      • iteambiz
        ... I have fixed my problem with the locked files. I really do appreciate the extensive explanations given by all. Tks again for your help.
        Message 3 of 19 , Jul 24 8:22 PM
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          --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Andy M <trumpy81@...> wrote:
          >
          > GDay Wayne,
          >
          > Corruption of the ACL can occur when transferring files but in this case
          > the files are locked by the UAC because access to them has been deemed
          > 'unauthorised'. This occurs because the third party program has been
          > given an incorrect ID or access level or that ID is somehow corrupted
          > and it does not match the expected ID or access level at the time of
          > writing the file to disk.
          >
          > It is part of the UAC and turning off UAC resolves the issue. However,
          > it is often better to leave the UAC on and simply elevate the related
          > program to administrator status by setting the 'Run as administrator'
          > option or simply right clicking on a programs shortcut and choosing that
          > option.
          >
          > Unfortunately, in Windows, there are many ways in which the ACL becomes
          > corrupted or 'out of sync' as you have found and described.
          >
          > There is also some malware that will corrupt the ACL as well and that
          > can be a nightmare to resolve, I can tell ya ... lol
          >
          > --
          > Regards
          > Andy M
          >
          >
          >
          > Wayne VanWeerthuizen wrote:
          > > On 7/23/2013 9:03 AM, iteambiz wrote:
          > > > I have been trying to transfer my files from one computer to my
          > > laptop with negative results. I can transfer all the old files that are
          > > unlocked but my new files are all locked and will not transfer. I don't
          > > understand why all new files are locked. I know it has something to do
          > > with property and permissions but how do I unlock the files or insure
          > > all new files are not locked? I am using 6.1 full version. Any help
          > > would be appreciated.
          > > >
          > >
          > > If your problem is the same as what I've seen before (when transferring
          > > files using external USB
          > > harddrives permissions can get messed up this way) this should fix it.
          > > But try to make sure you
          > > know what you are doing, Google for more information if need be, since
          > > this could also mess things
          > > up worse if done wrong.
          > >
          > > It sounds like the ownership of the files may have got corrupted. Each
          > > file and folder is "owned"
          > > by a particular user account on its machine. (Even if accounts on
          > > different machines have the same
          > > user name, they can still have different hidden user ID numbers for the
          > > owners of the files.) On
          > > rare occasions this problem occurs when files are owned by an account
          > > created on different machine
          > > than the where the files are actually located. This can occur with files
          > > written by another machine
          > > to a folder on an external drive that doesn't have default security
          > > settings.
          > >
          > > Try going to a folder that contains all the files you are concerned
          > > about (but which if possible,
          > > doesn't contain any system folders, as you don't want to weaken the
          > > security on them. The steps
          > > below are generally safe to do with your My Documents folder, but could
          > > cause security weaknesses
          > > if done on the Windows folder or the Program Files folder.) Then select
          > > that folder's properties,
          > > and then click the Security tab, then clicked advanced, then click the
          > > owner tab. Click edit at
          > > the bottom, then change the owner to your user name, and make sure
          > > replace user on subcontainers
          > > and objects is checked. Then it will fix the owner of all the files at
          > > once when you click okay,
          > > and it may take several minutes.
          > >
          > > Then close windows until you are back to the security tab. Click edit.
          > > If your username is not
          > > in the list that appears, use add to add it. Give yourself full control
          > > then click okay. Now
          > > wait again while the permissions are fixed on all the files in the
          > > selected folder and its
          > > subfolders.
          > >
          > > Next go back to the general properties tab for the folder, and make sure
          > > read only is cleared.
          > > Click ok and then click "apply to this folder, subfolders, and files."
          > > Wait again for Windows
          > > to process the files.
          > >
          > > Now all there shouldn't be any permission settings preventing you from
          > > reading and writing
          > > any file in that folder.
          >


          I have fixed my problem with the locked files. I really do appreciate the extensive explanations given by all. Tks again for your help.
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