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RE: [NTB] Unlocking files on vr 6.1 pro

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  • John Shotsky
    If anyone has a soap box, it is you. I just said that people should try to find their own answers before asking hundreds of people an off-topic question,
    Message 1 of 19 , Jul 23, 2013
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      If anyone has a soap box, it is you. I just said that people should try to find their own answers before asking hundreds of people
      an off-topic question, without providing enough information to even be answered. Now, I'm done with this subject.

      Regards,
      John
      RecipeTools Web Site: <http://recipetools.gotdns.com/> http://recipetools.gotdns.com/
      John's Mags Yahoo Group: <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnsmags/> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnsmags/

      From: notetab@yahoogroups.com [mailto:notetab@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy M
      Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 16:23
      To: notetab@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [NTB] Unlocking files on vr 6.1 pro


      GDay John,

      FYI, a locked file is NOT controlled by a folder's permissions. It is
      set by the UAC and in most cases can only be turned off from the
      properties dialog.

      Now get off your soap box John and learn something before demonstrating
      to everyone your ineptitude.

      --
      Regards
      Andy M

      John Shotsky wrote:
      > If you look on Google for your answer, you will find that you can make a whole folder or a whole drive read/write in a single
      > operation. But that's not a NoteTab issue, as I explained earlier. Seek, and you shall receive. Ask, and you may not, especially
      if
      > you withhold the key information that is needed. In this case, you should find out WHY your files are read only. That is something
      > that has to do with your operating system, your user status, and many other potential things that have nothng to do with NoteTab.
      > You need WINDOWS help, not several hundred text editor users who can only guess at your situation.
      >
      > Regards,
      > John
      > RecipeTools Web Site: <http://recipetools.gotdns.com/> http://recipetools.gotdns.com/
      > John's Mags Yahoo Group: <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnsmags/> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnsmags/
      >
      > From: notetab@yahoogroups.com <mailto:notetab%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:notetab@yahoogroups.com
      <mailto:notetab%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of iteambiz
      > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 15:48
      > To: notetab@yahoogroups.com <mailto:notetab%40yahoogroups.com>
      > Subject: Re: [NTB] Unlocking files on vr 6.1 pro
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com <mailto:notetab%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:notetab%40yahoogroups.com> , Andy M <trumpy81@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Thanks a lot! Using the Administrator worked. However, I have to use "Save As" on all the locked files and replace them. Thats the
      > only way I can transfer the files. Tks again.
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Fookes Software: http://www.fookes.com/
      > NoteTab website: http://www.notetab.com/
      > NoteTab Discussion Lists: http://www.notetab.com/groups.php
      >
      > ***
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Art Kocsis
      ... John was trying to point out the inappropriateness and incompleteness of the original question as well as the laziness of a lot of posters. To paraphrase
      Message 2 of 19 , Jul 24, 2013
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        At 7/23/2013 04:23 PM, Andy M wrote:
        >GDay John,
        >FYI, a locked file is NOT controlled by a folder's permissions. It is
        >set by the UAC and in most cases can only be turned off from the
        >properties dialog.
        >
        >Now get off your soap box John and learn something before demonstrating
        >to everyone your ineptitude.

        John was trying to point out the inappropriateness and incompleteness of the original question as well as the laziness of a lot of posters.

        To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln: It is better to remain a lurker than to post a dumb question and remove all doubt. All too often I see posts on forums asking simple questions such as the meaning of a word that are easily and accurately answered by a simple Google search.

        And when the question is appropriate for the forum, all too often it is like the stereotypical automobile question: "It doesn't work. What is wrong?"

        It is a losing battle but John was still trying to improve the world.

        And FYI, a "locked" file is NOT controlled by the UAC. A file is "locked" by an application to gain sole access in order to avoid file corruption. It is an individual file/application level (file system), access control declaring the current "in use" status of a file. It is a file system/application access control mechanism for individual file access. This is a standard IT definition in use long before the idea of Windows was stolen from GEM by Gates in the early 80s.

        The UAC and ACL are system level access control mechanisms for system objects such as entire folders, file groups, keys as well as single files and apply to individual users. Their purpose is system security not file corruption and may trigger the dreaded "Access denied" messages. Access to system objects is based on user status, policy settings, file ownership, etc. I.e., access depends on the current "security clearance" of the user with respect to the specific object.

        Art
      • Wayne VanWeerthuizen
        ... If your problem is the same as what I ve seen before (when transferring files using external USB harddrives permissions can get messed up this way) this
        Message 3 of 19 , Jul 24, 2013
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          On 7/23/2013 9:03 AM, iteambiz wrote:
          > I have been trying to transfer my files from one computer to my laptop with negative results. I can transfer all the old files that are unlocked but my new files are all locked and will not transfer. I don't understand why all new files are locked. I know it has something to do with property and permissions but how do I unlock the files or insure all new files are not locked? I am using 6.1 full version. Any help would be appreciated.
          >

          If your problem is the same as what I've seen before (when transferring files using external USB
          harddrives permissions can get messed up this way) this should fix it. But try to make sure you
          know what you are doing, Google for more information if need be, since this could also mess things
          up worse if done wrong.

          It sounds like the ownership of the files may have got corrupted. Each file and folder is "owned"
          by a particular user account on its machine. (Even if accounts on different machines have the same
          user name, they can still have different hidden user ID numbers for the owners of the files.) On
          rare occasions this problem occurs when files are owned by an account created on different machine
          than the where the files are actually located. This can occur with files written by another machine
          to a folder on an external drive that doesn't have default security settings.

          Try going to a folder that contains all the files you are concerned about (but which if possible,
          doesn't contain any system folders, as you don't want to weaken the security on them. The steps
          below are generally safe to do with your My Documents folder, but could cause security weaknesses
          if done on the Windows folder or the Program Files folder.) Then select that folder's properties,
          and then click the Security tab, then clicked advanced, then click the owner tab. Click edit at
          the bottom, then change the owner to your user name, and make sure replace user on subcontainers
          and objects is checked. Then it will fix the owner of all the files at once when you click okay,
          and it may take several minutes.

          Then close windows until you are back to the security tab. Click edit. If your username is not
          in the list that appears, use add to add it. Give yourself full control then click okay. Now
          wait again while the permissions are fixed on all the files in the selected folder and its
          subfolders.

          Next go back to the general properties tab for the folder, and make sure read only is cleared.
          Click ok and then click "apply to this folder, subfolders, and files." Wait again for Windows
          to process the files.

          Now all there shouldn't be any permission settings preventing you from reading and writing
          any file in that folder.
        • Andy M
          GDay Art, See my response below. -- Regards Andy M ... As for John, I found his attempt at humour to be inept and offensive. There was no need for it at all,
          Message 4 of 19 , Jul 24, 2013
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            GDay Art,

            See my response below.

            --
            Regards
            Andy M



            Art Kocsis wrote:
            > At 7/23/2013 04:23 PM, Andy M wrote:
            > John was trying to point out the inappropriateness and incompleteness of
            > the original question as well as the laziness of a lot of posters.

            As for John, I found his attempt at humour to be inept and offensive.
            There was no need for it at all, hence my response.

            > To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln: It is better to remain a lurker than to
            > post a dumb question and remove all doubt. All too often I see posts on
            > forums asking simple questions such as the meaning of a word that are
            > easily and accurately answered by a simple Google search.

            I very much doubt that 'Abe' had anything to say on the matter ... lol

            Why would you resort to Google if you were thinking 'Notetab' and you
            were in a Notetab related forum?

            While I agree in principle that it is often more productive to use
            Google, sometimes one's perceptions are coloured by one's lack of
            knowledge. That may apply to anyone ;)

            > And when the question is appropriate for the forum, all too often it is
            > like the stereotypical automobile question: "It doesn't work. What is
            > wrong?"

            Yes, some people lack the skills to attack such a problem and rely on
            'others' to answer the question for them. Information is always required
            but if you don't answer the question asked you will never get to that
            information.

            > It is a losing battle but John was still trying to improve the world.

            I'm sure you could think of a better way of addressing the issue?

            > And FYI, a "locked" file is NOT controlled by the UAC. A file is
            > "locked" by an application to gain sole access in order to avoid file
            > corruption. It is an individual file/application level (file system),
            > access control declaring the current "in use" status of a file. It is a
            > file system/application access control mechanism for individual file
            > access. This is a standard IT definition in use long before the idea of
            > Windows was stolen from GEM by Gates in the early 80s.

            In this instance the locked file IS controlled by the UAC. The file is
            locked because it's access is deemed 'unauthorised'. This often occurs
            when UAC is turned on and third party programs access restricted
            folders. It will also occur if a file is downloaded from the net
            directly into a Windows controlled folder other than the 'Downloads' folder.

            Yes, it wasn't the only thing 'acquired' by Mr. Gates in the early years
            ... lol

            > The UAC and ACL are system level access control mechanisms for system
            > objects such as entire folders, file groups, keys as well as single
            > files and apply to individual users. Their purpose is system security
            > not file corruption and may trigger the dreaded "Access denied"
            > messages. Access to system objects is based on user status, policy
            > settings, file ownership, etc. I.e., access depends on the current
            > "security clearance" of the user with respect to the specific object.

            Yes, you are correct about that but it is usually the ACL that is
            involved when files are locked because of anti-corruption and 'in use'
            mechanisms within some programs. In this case though, it is the UAC that
            does the locking.

            > Art
          • Andy M
            GDay Wayne, Corruption of the ACL can occur when transferring files but in this case the files are locked by the UAC because access to them has been deemed
            Message 5 of 19 , Jul 24, 2013
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              GDay Wayne,

              Corruption of the ACL can occur when transferring files but in this case
              the files are locked by the UAC because access to them has been deemed
              'unauthorised'. This occurs because the third party program has been
              given an incorrect ID or access level or that ID is somehow corrupted
              and it does not match the expected ID or access level at the time of
              writing the file to disk.

              It is part of the UAC and turning off UAC resolves the issue. However,
              it is often better to leave the UAC on and simply elevate the related
              program to administrator status by setting the 'Run as administrator'
              option or simply right clicking on a programs shortcut and choosing that
              option.

              Unfortunately, in Windows, there are many ways in which the ACL becomes
              corrupted or 'out of sync' as you have found and described.

              There is also some malware that will corrupt the ACL as well and that
              can be a nightmare to resolve, I can tell ya ... lol

              --
              Regards
              Andy M



              Wayne VanWeerthuizen wrote:
              > On 7/23/2013 9:03 AM, iteambiz wrote:
              > > I have been trying to transfer my files from one computer to my
              > laptop with negative results. I can transfer all the old files that are
              > unlocked but my new files are all locked and will not transfer. I don't
              > understand why all new files are locked. I know it has something to do
              > with property and permissions but how do I unlock the files or insure
              > all new files are not locked? I am using 6.1 full version. Any help
              > would be appreciated.
              > >
              >
              > If your problem is the same as what I've seen before (when transferring
              > files using external USB
              > harddrives permissions can get messed up this way) this should fix it.
              > But try to make sure you
              > know what you are doing, Google for more information if need be, since
              > this could also mess things
              > up worse if done wrong.
              >
              > It sounds like the ownership of the files may have got corrupted. Each
              > file and folder is "owned"
              > by a particular user account on its machine. (Even if accounts on
              > different machines have the same
              > user name, they can still have different hidden user ID numbers for the
              > owners of the files.) On
              > rare occasions this problem occurs when files are owned by an account
              > created on different machine
              > than the where the files are actually located. This can occur with files
              > written by another machine
              > to a folder on an external drive that doesn't have default security
              > settings.
              >
              > Try going to a folder that contains all the files you are concerned
              > about (but which if possible,
              > doesn't contain any system folders, as you don't want to weaken the
              > security on them. The steps
              > below are generally safe to do with your My Documents folder, but could
              > cause security weaknesses
              > if done on the Windows folder or the Program Files folder.) Then select
              > that folder's properties,
              > and then click the Security tab, then clicked advanced, then click the
              > owner tab. Click edit at
              > the bottom, then change the owner to your user name, and make sure
              > replace user on subcontainers
              > and objects is checked. Then it will fix the owner of all the files at
              > once when you click okay,
              > and it may take several minutes.
              >
              > Then close windows until you are back to the security tab. Click edit.
              > If your username is not
              > in the list that appears, use add to add it. Give yourself full control
              > then click okay. Now
              > wait again while the permissions are fixed on all the files in the
              > selected folder and its
              > subfolders.
              >
              > Next go back to the general properties tab for the folder, and make sure
              > read only is cleared.
              > Click ok and then click "apply to this folder, subfolders, and files."
              > Wait again for Windows
              > to process the files.
              >
              > Now all there shouldn't be any permission settings preventing you from
              > reading and writing
              > any file in that folder.
            • iteambiz
              ... I have fixed my problem with the locked files. I really do appreciate the extensive explanations given by all. Tks again for your help.
              Message 6 of 19 , Jul 24, 2013
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                --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Andy M <trumpy81@...> wrote:
                >
                > GDay Wayne,
                >
                > Corruption of the ACL can occur when transferring files but in this case
                > the files are locked by the UAC because access to them has been deemed
                > 'unauthorised'. This occurs because the third party program has been
                > given an incorrect ID or access level or that ID is somehow corrupted
                > and it does not match the expected ID or access level at the time of
                > writing the file to disk.
                >
                > It is part of the UAC and turning off UAC resolves the issue. However,
                > it is often better to leave the UAC on and simply elevate the related
                > program to administrator status by setting the 'Run as administrator'
                > option or simply right clicking on a programs shortcut and choosing that
                > option.
                >
                > Unfortunately, in Windows, there are many ways in which the ACL becomes
                > corrupted or 'out of sync' as you have found and described.
                >
                > There is also some malware that will corrupt the ACL as well and that
                > can be a nightmare to resolve, I can tell ya ... lol
                >
                > --
                > Regards
                > Andy M
                >
                >
                >
                > Wayne VanWeerthuizen wrote:
                > > On 7/23/2013 9:03 AM, iteambiz wrote:
                > > > I have been trying to transfer my files from one computer to my
                > > laptop with negative results. I can transfer all the old files that are
                > > unlocked but my new files are all locked and will not transfer. I don't
                > > understand why all new files are locked. I know it has something to do
                > > with property and permissions but how do I unlock the files or insure
                > > all new files are not locked? I am using 6.1 full version. Any help
                > > would be appreciated.
                > > >
                > >
                > > If your problem is the same as what I've seen before (when transferring
                > > files using external USB
                > > harddrives permissions can get messed up this way) this should fix it.
                > > But try to make sure you
                > > know what you are doing, Google for more information if need be, since
                > > this could also mess things
                > > up worse if done wrong.
                > >
                > > It sounds like the ownership of the files may have got corrupted. Each
                > > file and folder is "owned"
                > > by a particular user account on its machine. (Even if accounts on
                > > different machines have the same
                > > user name, they can still have different hidden user ID numbers for the
                > > owners of the files.) On
                > > rare occasions this problem occurs when files are owned by an account
                > > created on different machine
                > > than the where the files are actually located. This can occur with files
                > > written by another machine
                > > to a folder on an external drive that doesn't have default security
                > > settings.
                > >
                > > Try going to a folder that contains all the files you are concerned
                > > about (but which if possible,
                > > doesn't contain any system folders, as you don't want to weaken the
                > > security on them. The steps
                > > below are generally safe to do with your My Documents folder, but could
                > > cause security weaknesses
                > > if done on the Windows folder or the Program Files folder.) Then select
                > > that folder's properties,
                > > and then click the Security tab, then clicked advanced, then click the
                > > owner tab. Click edit at
                > > the bottom, then change the owner to your user name, and make sure
                > > replace user on subcontainers
                > > and objects is checked. Then it will fix the owner of all the files at
                > > once when you click okay,
                > > and it may take several minutes.
                > >
                > > Then close windows until you are back to the security tab. Click edit.
                > > If your username is not
                > > in the list that appears, use add to add it. Give yourself full control
                > > then click okay. Now
                > > wait again while the permissions are fixed on all the files in the
                > > selected folder and its
                > > subfolders.
                > >
                > > Next go back to the general properties tab for the folder, and make sure
                > > read only is cleared.
                > > Click ok and then click "apply to this folder, subfolders, and files."
                > > Wait again for Windows
                > > to process the files.
                > >
                > > Now all there shouldn't be any permission settings preventing you from
                > > reading and writing
                > > any file in that folder.
                >


                I have fixed my problem with the locked files. I really do appreciate the extensive explanations given by all. Tks again for your help.
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