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Re: [NTB] Unlocking files on vr 6.1 pro

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  • Andy M
    GDay John, You are correct in that many people do not ask the right questions, but sometimes what is the right question? Your question for example should have
    Message 1 of 19 , Jul 23, 2013
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      GDay John,

      You are correct in that many people do not ask the right questions, but
      sometimes what is the right question?

      Your question for example should have included the fact that you want to
      stream the video, in which case I would have suggested checking that
      your firewall and router are open on the port/s that you use to stream
      the video out. Don't rely on the program/s you use to do that for you as
      they may well be closing the port/s when you quit those programs.

      On the subject of Off Topic questions, I don't see any problem with them
      at all, particularly when they are not so off topic as this one was.

      Most people join a group and as part of interacting with that group
      questions are asked and answers given. This builds a certain amount of
      trust between individuals and that trust is often the driver behind OT
      questions.

      I believe the OP felt comfortable enough to ask trusted members of this
      group about a problem he had. As it turns out, the question he had was
      not completely off topic as it involves files saved with NOTETAB. Just
      because the cause of that problem is NOT Notetab and is in fact Windows
      could not be foreseen by the OP could it?

      You on the other hand were knowledgeable enough to realise where the
      problem lay and so deemed the OP's question to be off topic.

      Without the needed knowledge though, the question could be regarded as
      ON TOPIC.

      Stop and think before you criticise because it may well turn out that
      the egg is on your face.

      And speaking of Off Topic, what do these links have to do with Notetab?

      RecipeTools Web Site: <http://recipetools.gotdns.com/>
      John's Mags Yahoo Group: <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnsmags/>

      --
      Regards
      Andy M



      John Shotsky wrote:
      > I guess my attempt at dry humor escaped you. I thought maybe this group had become the operating system tech support group, thus my
      > question. Mebbe it is still a text editor group, and operating system questions should be directed elsewhere.
      >
      > In any event, a statement like 'it doesn't work' is never going to get a satisfactory result, unless you want the result to be 'it
      > depends'. It depends on what operating system you are running, what you have already tried, in detail, and at the very least, 'I
      > have searched for an answer on Google', and still can't solve this problem. The original problem is not, of course, a NoteTab
      > problem, so why ask here? The answer is one of the most basic functions of Windows itself, and that's how it should be approached.
      >
      > And my webcam problem isn't as simple as it seems either - it is streamed to my web page automatically, and that is what is not
      > working. I can start it manually, but it doesn't start by itself. Of course, since I left those details out, I could never get the
      > correct response unless people asked me questions. That's the point - ask half an off-topic question and get half an off-topic
      > answer that is wrong.
      >
      > For every 'How do you' question people have, the very, very first action should be to plug those words into Google. Why directly ask
      > several hundred people an off topic question, when the answer is there for you to find, if ONLY you would first LOOK FOR IT.
      >
      > Regards,
      > John
      > RecipeTools Web Site: <http://recipetools.gotdns.com/> http://recipetools.gotdns.com/
      > John's Mags Yahoo Group: <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnsmags/> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnsmags/
    • Andy M
      GDay John, FYI, a locked file is NOT controlled by a folder s permissions. It is set by the UAC and in most cases can only be turned off from the properties
      Message 2 of 19 , Jul 23, 2013
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        GDay John,

        FYI, a locked file is NOT controlled by a folder's permissions. It is
        set by the UAC and in most cases can only be turned off from the
        properties dialog.

        Now get off your soap box John and learn something before demonstrating
        to everyone your ineptitude.

        --
        Regards
        Andy M



        John Shotsky wrote:
        > If you look on Google for your answer, you will find that you can make a whole folder or a whole drive read/write in a single
        > operation. But that's not a NoteTab issue, as I explained earlier. Seek, and you shall receive. Ask, and you may not, especially if
        > you withhold the key information that is needed. In this case, you should find out WHY your files are read only. That is something
        > that has to do with your operating system, your user status, and many other potential things that have nothng to do with NoteTab.
        > You need WINDOWS help, not several hundred text editor users who can only guess at your situation.
        >
        > Regards,
        > John
        > RecipeTools Web Site: <http://recipetools.gotdns.com/> http://recipetools.gotdns.com/
        > John's Mags Yahoo Group: <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnsmags/> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnsmags/
        >
        > From: notetab@yahoogroups.com [mailto:notetab@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of iteambiz
        > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 15:48
        > To: notetab@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [NTB] Unlocking files on vr 6.1 pro
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com <mailto:notetab%40yahoogroups.com> , Andy M <trumpy81@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks a lot! Using the Administrator worked. However, I have to use "Save As" on all the locked files and replace them. Thats the
        > only way I can transfer the files. Tks again.
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Fookes Software: http://www.fookes.com/
        > NoteTab website: http://www.notetab.com/
        > NoteTab Discussion Lists: http://www.notetab.com/groups.php
        >
        > ***
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • John Shotsky
        If anyone has a soap box, it is you. I just said that people should try to find their own answers before asking hundreds of people an off-topic question,
        Message 3 of 19 , Jul 23, 2013
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          If anyone has a soap box, it is you. I just said that people should try to find their own answers before asking hundreds of people
          an off-topic question, without providing enough information to even be answered. Now, I'm done with this subject.

          Regards,
          John
          RecipeTools Web Site: <http://recipetools.gotdns.com/> http://recipetools.gotdns.com/
          John's Mags Yahoo Group: <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnsmags/> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnsmags/

          From: notetab@yahoogroups.com [mailto:notetab@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy M
          Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 16:23
          To: notetab@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [NTB] Unlocking files on vr 6.1 pro


          GDay John,

          FYI, a locked file is NOT controlled by a folder's permissions. It is
          set by the UAC and in most cases can only be turned off from the
          properties dialog.

          Now get off your soap box John and learn something before demonstrating
          to everyone your ineptitude.

          --
          Regards
          Andy M

          John Shotsky wrote:
          > If you look on Google for your answer, you will find that you can make a whole folder or a whole drive read/write in a single
          > operation. But that's not a NoteTab issue, as I explained earlier. Seek, and you shall receive. Ask, and you may not, especially
          if
          > you withhold the key information that is needed. In this case, you should find out WHY your files are read only. That is something
          > that has to do with your operating system, your user status, and many other potential things that have nothng to do with NoteTab.
          > You need WINDOWS help, not several hundred text editor users who can only guess at your situation.
          >
          > Regards,
          > John
          > RecipeTools Web Site: <http://recipetools.gotdns.com/> http://recipetools.gotdns.com/
          > John's Mags Yahoo Group: <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnsmags/> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnsmags/
          >
          > From: notetab@yahoogroups.com <mailto:notetab%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:notetab@yahoogroups.com
          <mailto:notetab%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of iteambiz
          > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 15:48
          > To: notetab@yahoogroups.com <mailto:notetab%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Subject: Re: [NTB] Unlocking files on vr 6.1 pro
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com <mailto:notetab%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:notetab%40yahoogroups.com> , Andy M <trumpy81@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Thanks a lot! Using the Administrator worked. However, I have to use "Save As" on all the locked files and replace them. Thats the
          > only way I can transfer the files. Tks again.
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Fookes Software: http://www.fookes.com/
          > NoteTab website: http://www.notetab.com/
          > NoteTab Discussion Lists: http://www.notetab.com/groups.php
          >
          > ***
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Art Kocsis
          ... John was trying to point out the inappropriateness and incompleteness of the original question as well as the laziness of a lot of posters. To paraphrase
          Message 4 of 19 , Jul 24, 2013
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            At 7/23/2013 04:23 PM, Andy M wrote:
            >GDay John,
            >FYI, a locked file is NOT controlled by a folder's permissions. It is
            >set by the UAC and in most cases can only be turned off from the
            >properties dialog.
            >
            >Now get off your soap box John and learn something before demonstrating
            >to everyone your ineptitude.

            John was trying to point out the inappropriateness and incompleteness of the original question as well as the laziness of a lot of posters.

            To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln: It is better to remain a lurker than to post a dumb question and remove all doubt. All too often I see posts on forums asking simple questions such as the meaning of a word that are easily and accurately answered by a simple Google search.

            And when the question is appropriate for the forum, all too often it is like the stereotypical automobile question: "It doesn't work. What is wrong?"

            It is a losing battle but John was still trying to improve the world.

            And FYI, a "locked" file is NOT controlled by the UAC. A file is "locked" by an application to gain sole access in order to avoid file corruption. It is an individual file/application level (file system), access control declaring the current "in use" status of a file. It is a file system/application access control mechanism for individual file access. This is a standard IT definition in use long before the idea of Windows was stolen from GEM by Gates in the early 80s.

            The UAC and ACL are system level access control mechanisms for system objects such as entire folders, file groups, keys as well as single files and apply to individual users. Their purpose is system security not file corruption and may trigger the dreaded "Access denied" messages. Access to system objects is based on user status, policy settings, file ownership, etc. I.e., access depends on the current "security clearance" of the user with respect to the specific object.

            Art
          • Wayne VanWeerthuizen
            ... If your problem is the same as what I ve seen before (when transferring files using external USB harddrives permissions can get messed up this way) this
            Message 5 of 19 , Jul 24, 2013
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              On 7/23/2013 9:03 AM, iteambiz wrote:
              > I have been trying to transfer my files from one computer to my laptop with negative results. I can transfer all the old files that are unlocked but my new files are all locked and will not transfer. I don't understand why all new files are locked. I know it has something to do with property and permissions but how do I unlock the files or insure all new files are not locked? I am using 6.1 full version. Any help would be appreciated.
              >

              If your problem is the same as what I've seen before (when transferring files using external USB
              harddrives permissions can get messed up this way) this should fix it. But try to make sure you
              know what you are doing, Google for more information if need be, since this could also mess things
              up worse if done wrong.

              It sounds like the ownership of the files may have got corrupted. Each file and folder is "owned"
              by a particular user account on its machine. (Even if accounts on different machines have the same
              user name, they can still have different hidden user ID numbers for the owners of the files.) On
              rare occasions this problem occurs when files are owned by an account created on different machine
              than the where the files are actually located. This can occur with files written by another machine
              to a folder on an external drive that doesn't have default security settings.

              Try going to a folder that contains all the files you are concerned about (but which if possible,
              doesn't contain any system folders, as you don't want to weaken the security on them. The steps
              below are generally safe to do with your My Documents folder, but could cause security weaknesses
              if done on the Windows folder or the Program Files folder.) Then select that folder's properties,
              and then click the Security tab, then clicked advanced, then click the owner tab. Click edit at
              the bottom, then change the owner to your user name, and make sure replace user on subcontainers
              and objects is checked. Then it will fix the owner of all the files at once when you click okay,
              and it may take several minutes.

              Then close windows until you are back to the security tab. Click edit. If your username is not
              in the list that appears, use add to add it. Give yourself full control then click okay. Now
              wait again while the permissions are fixed on all the files in the selected folder and its
              subfolders.

              Next go back to the general properties tab for the folder, and make sure read only is cleared.
              Click ok and then click "apply to this folder, subfolders, and files." Wait again for Windows
              to process the files.

              Now all there shouldn't be any permission settings preventing you from reading and writing
              any file in that folder.
            • Andy M
              GDay Art, See my response below. -- Regards Andy M ... As for John, I found his attempt at humour to be inept and offensive. There was no need for it at all,
              Message 6 of 19 , Jul 24, 2013
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                GDay Art,

                See my response below.

                --
                Regards
                Andy M



                Art Kocsis wrote:
                > At 7/23/2013 04:23 PM, Andy M wrote:
                > John was trying to point out the inappropriateness and incompleteness of
                > the original question as well as the laziness of a lot of posters.

                As for John, I found his attempt at humour to be inept and offensive.
                There was no need for it at all, hence my response.

                > To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln: It is better to remain a lurker than to
                > post a dumb question and remove all doubt. All too often I see posts on
                > forums asking simple questions such as the meaning of a word that are
                > easily and accurately answered by a simple Google search.

                I very much doubt that 'Abe' had anything to say on the matter ... lol

                Why would you resort to Google if you were thinking 'Notetab' and you
                were in a Notetab related forum?

                While I agree in principle that it is often more productive to use
                Google, sometimes one's perceptions are coloured by one's lack of
                knowledge. That may apply to anyone ;)

                > And when the question is appropriate for the forum, all too often it is
                > like the stereotypical automobile question: "It doesn't work. What is
                > wrong?"

                Yes, some people lack the skills to attack such a problem and rely on
                'others' to answer the question for them. Information is always required
                but if you don't answer the question asked you will never get to that
                information.

                > It is a losing battle but John was still trying to improve the world.

                I'm sure you could think of a better way of addressing the issue?

                > And FYI, a "locked" file is NOT controlled by the UAC. A file is
                > "locked" by an application to gain sole access in order to avoid file
                > corruption. It is an individual file/application level (file system),
                > access control declaring the current "in use" status of a file. It is a
                > file system/application access control mechanism for individual file
                > access. This is a standard IT definition in use long before the idea of
                > Windows was stolen from GEM by Gates in the early 80s.

                In this instance the locked file IS controlled by the UAC. The file is
                locked because it's access is deemed 'unauthorised'. This often occurs
                when UAC is turned on and third party programs access restricted
                folders. It will also occur if a file is downloaded from the net
                directly into a Windows controlled folder other than the 'Downloads' folder.

                Yes, it wasn't the only thing 'acquired' by Mr. Gates in the early years
                ... lol

                > The UAC and ACL are system level access control mechanisms for system
                > objects such as entire folders, file groups, keys as well as single
                > files and apply to individual users. Their purpose is system security
                > not file corruption and may trigger the dreaded "Access denied"
                > messages. Access to system objects is based on user status, policy
                > settings, file ownership, etc. I.e., access depends on the current
                > "security clearance" of the user with respect to the specific object.

                Yes, you are correct about that but it is usually the ACL that is
                involved when files are locked because of anti-corruption and 'in use'
                mechanisms within some programs. In this case though, it is the UAC that
                does the locking.

                > Art
              • Andy M
                GDay Wayne, Corruption of the ACL can occur when transferring files but in this case the files are locked by the UAC because access to them has been deemed
                Message 7 of 19 , Jul 24, 2013
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                  GDay Wayne,

                  Corruption of the ACL can occur when transferring files but in this case
                  the files are locked by the UAC because access to them has been deemed
                  'unauthorised'. This occurs because the third party program has been
                  given an incorrect ID or access level or that ID is somehow corrupted
                  and it does not match the expected ID or access level at the time of
                  writing the file to disk.

                  It is part of the UAC and turning off UAC resolves the issue. However,
                  it is often better to leave the UAC on and simply elevate the related
                  program to administrator status by setting the 'Run as administrator'
                  option or simply right clicking on a programs shortcut and choosing that
                  option.

                  Unfortunately, in Windows, there are many ways in which the ACL becomes
                  corrupted or 'out of sync' as you have found and described.

                  There is also some malware that will corrupt the ACL as well and that
                  can be a nightmare to resolve, I can tell ya ... lol

                  --
                  Regards
                  Andy M



                  Wayne VanWeerthuizen wrote:
                  > On 7/23/2013 9:03 AM, iteambiz wrote:
                  > > I have been trying to transfer my files from one computer to my
                  > laptop with negative results. I can transfer all the old files that are
                  > unlocked but my new files are all locked and will not transfer. I don't
                  > understand why all new files are locked. I know it has something to do
                  > with property and permissions but how do I unlock the files or insure
                  > all new files are not locked? I am using 6.1 full version. Any help
                  > would be appreciated.
                  > >
                  >
                  > If your problem is the same as what I've seen before (when transferring
                  > files using external USB
                  > harddrives permissions can get messed up this way) this should fix it.
                  > But try to make sure you
                  > know what you are doing, Google for more information if need be, since
                  > this could also mess things
                  > up worse if done wrong.
                  >
                  > It sounds like the ownership of the files may have got corrupted. Each
                  > file and folder is "owned"
                  > by a particular user account on its machine. (Even if accounts on
                  > different machines have the same
                  > user name, they can still have different hidden user ID numbers for the
                  > owners of the files.) On
                  > rare occasions this problem occurs when files are owned by an account
                  > created on different machine
                  > than the where the files are actually located. This can occur with files
                  > written by another machine
                  > to a folder on an external drive that doesn't have default security
                  > settings.
                  >
                  > Try going to a folder that contains all the files you are concerned
                  > about (but which if possible,
                  > doesn't contain any system folders, as you don't want to weaken the
                  > security on them. The steps
                  > below are generally safe to do with your My Documents folder, but could
                  > cause security weaknesses
                  > if done on the Windows folder or the Program Files folder.) Then select
                  > that folder's properties,
                  > and then click the Security tab, then clicked advanced, then click the
                  > owner tab. Click edit at
                  > the bottom, then change the owner to your user name, and make sure
                  > replace user on subcontainers
                  > and objects is checked. Then it will fix the owner of all the files at
                  > once when you click okay,
                  > and it may take several minutes.
                  >
                  > Then close windows until you are back to the security tab. Click edit.
                  > If your username is not
                  > in the list that appears, use add to add it. Give yourself full control
                  > then click okay. Now
                  > wait again while the permissions are fixed on all the files in the
                  > selected folder and its
                  > subfolders.
                  >
                  > Next go back to the general properties tab for the folder, and make sure
                  > read only is cleared.
                  > Click ok and then click "apply to this folder, subfolders, and files."
                  > Wait again for Windows
                  > to process the files.
                  >
                  > Now all there shouldn't be any permission settings preventing you from
                  > reading and writing
                  > any file in that folder.
                • iteambiz
                  ... I have fixed my problem with the locked files. I really do appreciate the extensive explanations given by all. Tks again for your help.
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jul 24, 2013
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                    --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Andy M <trumpy81@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > GDay Wayne,
                    >
                    > Corruption of the ACL can occur when transferring files but in this case
                    > the files are locked by the UAC because access to them has been deemed
                    > 'unauthorised'. This occurs because the third party program has been
                    > given an incorrect ID or access level or that ID is somehow corrupted
                    > and it does not match the expected ID or access level at the time of
                    > writing the file to disk.
                    >
                    > It is part of the UAC and turning off UAC resolves the issue. However,
                    > it is often better to leave the UAC on and simply elevate the related
                    > program to administrator status by setting the 'Run as administrator'
                    > option or simply right clicking on a programs shortcut and choosing that
                    > option.
                    >
                    > Unfortunately, in Windows, there are many ways in which the ACL becomes
                    > corrupted or 'out of sync' as you have found and described.
                    >
                    > There is also some malware that will corrupt the ACL as well and that
                    > can be a nightmare to resolve, I can tell ya ... lol
                    >
                    > --
                    > Regards
                    > Andy M
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Wayne VanWeerthuizen wrote:
                    > > On 7/23/2013 9:03 AM, iteambiz wrote:
                    > > > I have been trying to transfer my files from one computer to my
                    > > laptop with negative results. I can transfer all the old files that are
                    > > unlocked but my new files are all locked and will not transfer. I don't
                    > > understand why all new files are locked. I know it has something to do
                    > > with property and permissions but how do I unlock the files or insure
                    > > all new files are not locked? I am using 6.1 full version. Any help
                    > > would be appreciated.
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > If your problem is the same as what I've seen before (when transferring
                    > > files using external USB
                    > > harddrives permissions can get messed up this way) this should fix it.
                    > > But try to make sure you
                    > > know what you are doing, Google for more information if need be, since
                    > > this could also mess things
                    > > up worse if done wrong.
                    > >
                    > > It sounds like the ownership of the files may have got corrupted. Each
                    > > file and folder is "owned"
                    > > by a particular user account on its machine. (Even if accounts on
                    > > different machines have the same
                    > > user name, they can still have different hidden user ID numbers for the
                    > > owners of the files.) On
                    > > rare occasions this problem occurs when files are owned by an account
                    > > created on different machine
                    > > than the where the files are actually located. This can occur with files
                    > > written by another machine
                    > > to a folder on an external drive that doesn't have default security
                    > > settings.
                    > >
                    > > Try going to a folder that contains all the files you are concerned
                    > > about (but which if possible,
                    > > doesn't contain any system folders, as you don't want to weaken the
                    > > security on them. The steps
                    > > below are generally safe to do with your My Documents folder, but could
                    > > cause security weaknesses
                    > > if done on the Windows folder or the Program Files folder.) Then select
                    > > that folder's properties,
                    > > and then click the Security tab, then clicked advanced, then click the
                    > > owner tab. Click edit at
                    > > the bottom, then change the owner to your user name, and make sure
                    > > replace user on subcontainers
                    > > and objects is checked. Then it will fix the owner of all the files at
                    > > once when you click okay,
                    > > and it may take several minutes.
                    > >
                    > > Then close windows until you are back to the security tab. Click edit.
                    > > If your username is not
                    > > in the list that appears, use add to add it. Give yourself full control
                    > > then click okay. Now
                    > > wait again while the permissions are fixed on all the files in the
                    > > selected folder and its
                    > > subfolders.
                    > >
                    > > Next go back to the general properties tab for the folder, and make sure
                    > > read only is cleared.
                    > > Click ok and then click "apply to this folder, subfolders, and files."
                    > > Wait again for Windows
                    > > to process the files.
                    > >
                    > > Now all there shouldn't be any permission settings preventing you from
                    > > reading and writing
                    > > any file in that folder.
                    >


                    I have fixed my problem with the locked files. I really do appreciate the extensive explanations given by all. Tks again for your help.
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