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Re: [NTB] Basic Clip "Move cursor position" question

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  • Robert Bull
    Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 11:25:07 PM, you wrote: D ^!MoveCursor +4 I consider it a failure in NTP s Help that searching for ^!MoveCursor gives No topics
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 22, 2012
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      Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 11:25:07 PM, you wrote:

      D> ^!MoveCursor +4

      I consider it a failure in NTP's Help that searching for
      "^!MoveCursor" gives "No topics found." It might not be a topic in
      itself, but it's included in the "Select, Copy, and Insert Text" topic
      under "Clip Programming." It would be helpful if NTP's search were
      more effective.


      --
      Regards,

      Robert Bull
      mailto:barlennan@...
    • Marcelo Bastos
      ... After checking, I have to admit that I have taken the lazy way out and used ^!Keyboard a number of times in my clips, for these keypresses: Shift+Ctrl+J
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 22, 2012
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        Interviewed by CNN on 22/11/2012 19:30, Robert Bull told the world:
        > Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 11:25:07 PM, you wrote:
        >
        > D> ^!MoveCursor +4
        >
        > I consider it a failure in NTP's Help that searching for
        > "^!MoveCursor" gives "No topics found." It might not be a topic in
        > itself, but it's included in the "Select, Copy, and Insert Text" topic
        > under "Clip Programming." It would be helpful if NTP's search were
        > more effective.
        >

        After checking, I have to admit that I have taken the lazy way out and
        used ^!Keyboard a number of times in my clips, for these keypresses:

        Shift+Ctrl+J (Join lines)
        SHIFT+CTRL+k (capitalize words)
        DELETE
        UP (move one line up)
        CTRL+N (new document)
        CTRL+X (cut)
        CTRL+V (paste)
        Shift+DOWN (extend selection by one line)

        A quick check through the help file suggests at least some of them
        (Ctrl+N, Ctrl+V, could be replaced by native Clip commands with a bit of
        tweaking. But I didn't find anything equivalent to Shift+Ctrl+J,
        SHIFT+CTRL+k, UP or Shift+Down. (I didn't find the specific command to
        replace Ctrl+X or DELETE, but I believe there must be one, it's just a
        matter of finding its syntax...)

        --
        MCBastos

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      • Alec Burgess
        ... Most of them can be replaced with ^!Menu {main entry}/{sub-entry}/sub-sub-entry (where entries containing blanks must be enclosed in quotes. ... eg. ^!Menu
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 22, 2012
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          On 2012-11-22 18:12, Marcelo Bastos wrote:
          > After checking, I have to admit that I have taken the lazy way out and
          > used ^!Keyboard a number of times in my clips, for these keypresses:
          >
          > Shift+Ctrl+J (Join lines)
          > SHIFT+CTRL+k (capitalize words)
          > DELETE
          > UP (move one line up)
          > CTRL+N (new document)
          > CTRL+X (cut)
          > CTRL+V (paste)
          > Shift+DOWN (extend selection by one line)
          >
          > A quick check through the help file suggests at least some of them
          > (Ctrl+N, Ctrl+V, could be replaced by native Clip commands with a bit of
          > tweaking. But I didn't find anything equivalent to Shift+Ctrl+J,
          > SHIFT+CTRL+k, UP or Shift+Down. (I didn't find the specific command to
          > replace Ctrl+X or DELETE, but I believe there must be one, it's just a
          > matter of finding its syntax...)
          Most of them can be replaced with ^!Menu {main
          entry}/{sub-entry}/sub-sub-entry (where entries containing blanks must
          be enclosed in quotes.
          > ^!Menu NameSequence (added in v4.9)
          >
          > You can use this command to activate any enabled command from the main
          > program menu. The first menu name in the sequence is the one that
          > appears at the top of the main menu, followed by submenu names (if
          > any), and then the name of the final menu item to activate. You must
          > separate submenu items with a forward slash and leave out any
          > ellipsis. You should put double quotes around a menu name if it
          > contains one or more forward slash characters. The case of characters
          > does not have to be the same as the actual menu commands.
          > The following example opens the Font dialog box for the active document:
          > ^!MENU Document/Font/Change Font
          > The example below inserts the date and time from the menu command
          > (notice the use of double quotes):
          > ^!MENU Document/"Insert Date/Time"
          eg. ^!Menu Modify/Lines/"Split Lines" and ^!Menu Edit/Delete.
          For: Shift+DOWN (extend selection by one line) I think ^!Select nnn and
          ^!Select +/-nnn specifically ^!Select +1 will do what you want.

          Also don't forget ^!Toolbar tooltip-text eg. ^!Toolbar "Split Lines"
          (not checked but assume it also requires quotes) (... later ... maybe
          not per the examples in Help for ^!Toolbar)



          --
          Regards ... Alec (buralex@gmail & WinLiveMess - alec.m.burgess@skype)
        • Marcelo Bastos
          ... I suppose so. But then, I don t see what s the difference, conceptually, in accessing a feature that s not native to the Clip language via keyboard
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 22, 2012
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            Interviewed by CNN on 22/11/2012 21:48, Alec Burgess told the world:
            >
            > Most of them can be replaced with ^!Menu {main
            > entry}/{sub-entry}/sub-sub-entry (where entries containing blanks must
            > be enclosed in quotes.

            I suppose so. But then, I don't see what's the difference, conceptually,
            in accessing a feature that's not native to the Clip language via
            keyboard shortcut or via menus, in terms of reliability. I have vague
            memories of attempting to use ^!Menu and giving up that approach as
            unsatisfactory for some reason. I have to test it again to see if it's
            any improvement. I must say that I never had problems using keyboard
            shortcuts in clips...
            > For: Shift+DOWN (extend selection by one line) I think ^!Select nnn
            > and ^!Select +/-nnn specifically ^!Select +1 will do what you want.
            > Also don't forget ^!Toolbar tooltip-text eg. ^!Toolbar "Split Lines"
            > (not checked but assume it also requires quotes) (... later ... maybe
            > not per the examples in Help for ^!Toolbar)
            I don't think so. The help file is pretty specific about ^!Select +nnn
            enlarging the selection by nnn CHARACTERS, not lines.

            --
            MCBastos

            This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized use will be prosecuted under the DMCA.
            -=-=-
            ... Sent from my DeLorean DMC-12, parked in 1955.
            * Added by TagZilla 0.7a1 running on Seamonkey 2.14 *
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          • John Shotsky
            The menu commands can be tricky. The command is not necessarily the words in the menu, but what is shown in the balloon help for that command. That got me a
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 22, 2012
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              The menu commands can be tricky. The command is not necessarily the words in the menu, but what is shown in the balloon
              help for that command. That got me a few times. It's very hard for me to remember to look at that first.

              Regards,
              John
              RecipeTools Web Site: <http://recipetools.gotdns.com/> http://recipetools.gotdns.com/

              From: notetab@yahoogroups.com [mailto:notetab@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marcelo Bastos
              Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 16:21
              To: notetab@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [NTB] Basic Clip "Move cursor position" question


              Interviewed by CNN on 22/11/2012 21:48, Alec Burgess told the world:
              >
              > Most of them can be replaced with ^!Menu {main
              > entry}/{sub-entry}/sub-sub-entry (where entries containing blanks must
              > be enclosed in quotes.

              I suppose so. But then, I don't see what's the difference, conceptually,
              in accessing a feature that's not native to the Clip language via
              keyboard shortcut or via menus, in terms of reliability. I have vague
              memories of attempting to use ^!Menu and giving up that approach as
              unsatisfactory for some reason. I have to test it again to see if it's
              any improvement. I must say that I never had problems using keyboard
              shortcuts in clips...
              > For: Shift+DOWN (extend selection by one line) I think ^!Select nnn
              > and ^!Select +/-nnn specifically ^!Select +1 will do what you want.
              > Also don't forget ^!Toolbar tooltip-text eg. ^!Toolbar "Split Lines"
              > (not checked but assume it also requires quotes) (... later ... maybe
              > not per the examples in Help for ^!Toolbar)
              I don't think so. The help file is pretty specific about ^!Select +nnn
              enlarging the selection by nnn CHARACTERS, not lines.

              --
              MCBastos

              This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized use will be prosecuted under the DMCA.
              -=-=-
              ... Sent from my DeLorean DMC-12, parked in 1955.
              * Added by TagZilla 0.7a1 running on Seamonkey 2.14 *
              Get it at http://xsidebar.mozdev.org/modifiedmailnews.html#tagzilla



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Alec Burgess
              @John / @Marcello interspersed: ... @John - What is balloon help for the command ? I m not seeing this, unless you mean the text tooltips for Toolbar buttons.
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 22, 2012
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                @John / @Marcello interspersed:
                On 2012-11-22 19:30, John Shotsky wrote:
                > The menu commands can be tricky. The command is not necessarily the words in the menu, but what is shown in the balloon
                > help for that command. That got me a few times. It's very hard for me to remember to look at that first.
                @John - What is "balloon help for the command"? I'm not seeing this,
                unless you mean the text tooltips for Toolbar buttons. Can you give an
                example where this causes confusion?
                >
                >
                > From: Marcelo Bastos
                > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 16:21
                >
                >
                > Interviewed by CNN on 22/11/2012 21:48, Alec Burgess told the world:
                >> Most of them can be replaced with ^!Menu {main
                >> entry}/{sub-entry}/sub-sub-entry (where entries containing blanks must
                >> be enclosed in quotes.
                > I suppose so. But then, I don't see what's the difference, conceptually,
                > in accessing a feature that's not native to the Clip language via
                > keyboard shortcut or via menus, in terms of reliability. I have vague
                > memories of attempting to use ^!Menu and giving up that approach as
                > unsatisfactory for some reason. I have to test it again to see if it's
                > any improvement. I must say that I never had problems using keyboard
                > shortcuts in clips...
                @Marcello: I don't know how often ^!Keyboard commands cause problems and
                require delays but then again I almost never use them. If memory serves
                they are most often required when trying to send commands to other
                programs where a loop checking to see if focus has been gained is
                sometimes recommended.

                I guess it depends on the speed and load on the computer when the clip
                is run.
                >> For: Shift+DOWN (extend selection by one line) I think ^!Select nnn
                >> and ^!Select +/-nnn specifically ^!Select +1 will do what you want.
                >> Also don't forget ^!Toolbar tooltip-text eg. ^!Toolbar "Split Lines"
                >> (not checked but assume it also requires quotes) (... later ... maybe
                >> not per the examples in Help for ^!Toolbar)
                > I don't think so. The help file is pretty specific about ^!Select +nnn
                > enlarging the selection by nnn CHARACTERS, not lines.
                *You are absolutely correct about this*. I read the help about ^!select
                where nnn without sign defines number of lines but didn't read carefully
                enough. Perhaps something could be done with a combination of ^!SelectTo
                row:col and ^$getrow$ and a calc to increment but unless I was running
                into problems with my clip appearing to randomly fail I'd probably just
                go with ^!Keyboard DOWN too :-)
              • John Shotsky
                Yes, it is the balloon help for the toolbar buttons. I dug around and realize that I have only used one Menu command, all the rest are Toolbar commands. So, it
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 22, 2012
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                  Yes, it is the balloon help for the toolbar buttons. I dug around and realize that I have only used one Menu command,
                  all the rest are Toolbar commands. So, it doesn't apply to Menu commands, but it does apply to toolbar commands.

                  Regards,
                  John
                  RecipeTools Web Site: <http://recipetools.gotdns.com/> http://recipetools.gotdns.com/

                  From: notetab@yahoogroups.com [mailto:notetab@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alec Burgess
                  Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 17:01
                  To: notetab@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [NTB] Basic Clip "Move cursor position" question


                  @John / @Marcello interspersed:
                  On 2012-11-22 19:30, John Shotsky wrote:
                  > The menu commands can be tricky. The command is not necessarily the words in the menu, but what is shown in the
                  balloon
                  > help for that command. That got me a few times. It's very hard for me to remember to look at that first.
                  @John - What is "balloon help for the command"? I'm not seeing this,
                  unless you mean the text tooltips for Toolbar buttons. Can you give an
                  example where this causes confusion?
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Marcelo Bastos
                  > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 16:21
                  >
                  >
                  > Interviewed by CNN on 22/11/2012 21:48, Alec Burgess told the world:
                  >> Most of them can be replaced with ^!Menu {main
                  >> entry}/{sub-entry}/sub-sub-entry (where entries containing blanks must
                  >> be enclosed in quotes.
                  > I suppose so. But then, I don't see what's the difference, conceptually,
                  > in accessing a feature that's not native to the Clip language via
                  > keyboard shortcut or via menus, in terms of reliability. I have vague
                  > memories of attempting to use ^!Menu and giving up that approach as
                  > unsatisfactory for some reason. I have to test it again to see if it's
                  > any improvement. I must say that I never had problems using keyboard
                  > shortcuts in clips...
                  @Marcello: I don't know how often ^!Keyboard commands cause problems and
                  require delays but then again I almost never use them. If memory serves
                  they are most often required when trying to send commands to other
                  programs where a loop checking to see if focus has been gained is
                  sometimes recommended.

                  I guess it depends on the speed and load on the computer when the clip
                  is run.
                  >> For: Shift+DOWN (extend selection by one line) I think ^!Select nnn
                  >> and ^!Select +/-nnn specifically ^!Select +1 will do what you want.
                  >> Also don't forget ^!Toolbar tooltip-text eg. ^!Toolbar "Split Lines"
                  >> (not checked but assume it also requires quotes) (... later ... maybe
                  >> not per the examples in Help for ^!Toolbar)
                  > I don't think so. The help file is pretty specific about ^!Select +nnn
                  > enlarging the selection by nnn CHARACTERS, not lines.
                  *You are absolutely correct about this*. I read the help about ^!select
                  where nnn without sign defines number of lines but didn't read carefully
                  enough. Perhaps something could be done with a combination of ^!SelectTo
                  row:col and ^$getrow$ and a calc to increment but unless I was running
                  into problems with my clip appearing to randomly fail I'd probably just
                  go with ^!Keyboard DOWN too :-)



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Robert Bull
                  ... AB *You are absolutely correct about this*. I read the help about AB ^!select where nnn without sign defines number of lines but didn t AB read
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 25, 2012
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                    Friday, November 23, 2012, 1:00:35 AM, Alec Burgess wrote:

                    >>> For: Shift+DOWN (extend selection by one line) I think ^!Select
                    >>> nnn and ^!Select +/-nnn specifically ^!Select +1 will do what you

                    >> I don't think so. The help file is pretty specific about ^!Select
                    >> +nnn enlarging the selection by nnn CHARACTERS, not lines.

                    AB> *You are absolutely correct about this*. I read the help about
                    AB> ^!select where nnn without sign defines number of lines but didn't
                    AB> read carefully enough. Perhaps something could be done with a
                    AB> combination of ^!SelectTo row:col and ^$getrow$ and a calc to
                    AB> increment but unless I was running into problems with my clip
                    AB> appearing to randomly fail I'd probably just go with ^!Keyboard
                    AB> DOWN too :-)

                    I was using ^!Keyboard CTRL+HOME in certain clips, then discovered the
                    JUMP command, ^!Jump DOC_START that does exactly the same thing. Does
                    it achieve the same end by different means? It's detailed under the
                    (dense) Help page "Select, Copy, and Insert Text" The full paragraph
                    says:

                    ---------
                    ^!Jump nnn or ^!Jump +/-nnn or
                    ^!Jump [LINE_START|LINE_END][SELECT_START|SELECT_END][TEXT_START|TEXT_END]

                    Moves cursor to the indicated position. If the parameter is a number
                    without a sign (+/-), the command will treat it as the line position
                    from the start of the document. When a sign is used, the command will
                    move the cursor a relative number of lines from the current position;
                    a positive number moving it towards the end of the text and a negative
                    number towards the start. If you don't specify a line number, you can
                    use one of the following settings:
                    LINE_START or LINE_END: places cursor at the beginning or end of the
                    current line. This feature treats a line as if word wrap is turned
                    off.
                    SELECT_START or SELECT_END: places cursor at the beginning or end of
                    the selection and unselects the text.
                    TEXT_START or TEXT_END: moves to start or end of a plain document or
                    the content of an Outline heading.
                    DOC_START or DOC_END: moves to start or end of any kind of document.
                    ---------

                    which offers another approach to ^!KeyBoard DOWN


                    --
                    Regards,

                    Robert Bull
                    mailto:barlennan@...
                  • John Shotsky
                    ^!Jump 1 moves to the home position also. Regards, John RecipeTools Web Site: http://recipetools.gotdns.com/ From:
                    Message 9 of 11 , Nov 25, 2012
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                      ^!Jump 1 moves to the home position also.

                      Regards,
                      John
                      RecipeTools Web Site: <http://recipetools.gotdns.com/> http://recipetools.gotdns.com/

                      From: notetab@yahoogroups.com [mailto:notetab@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Bull
                      Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 12:56
                      To: Alec Burgess
                      Subject: Re: [NTB] Basic Clip "Move cursor position" question


                      Friday, November 23, 2012, 1:00:35 AM, Alec Burgess wrote:

                      >>> For: Shift+DOWN (extend selection by one line) I think ^!Select
                      >>> nnn and ^!Select +/-nnn specifically ^!Select +1 will do what you

                      >> I don't think so. The help file is pretty specific about ^!Select
                      >> +nnn enlarging the selection by nnn CHARACTERS, not lines.

                      AB> *You are absolutely correct about this*. I read the help about
                      AB> ^!select where nnn without sign defines number of lines but didn't
                      AB> read carefully enough. Perhaps something could be done with a
                      AB> combination of ^!SelectTo row:col and ^$getrow$ and a calc to
                      AB> increment but unless I was running into problems with my clip
                      AB> appearing to randomly fail I'd probably just go with ^!Keyboard
                      AB> DOWN too :-)

                      I was using ^!Keyboard CTRL+HOME in certain clips, then discovered the
                      JUMP command, ^!Jump DOC_START that does exactly the same thing. Does
                      it achieve the same end by different means? It's detailed under the
                      (dense) Help page "Select, Copy, and Insert Text" The full paragraph
                      says:

                      ---------
                      ^!Jump nnn or ^!Jump +/-nnn or
                      ^!Jump [LINE_START|LINE_END][SELECT_START|SELECT_END][TEXT_START|TEXT_END]

                      Moves cursor to the indicated position. If the parameter is a number
                      without a sign (+/-), the command will treat it as the line position
                      from the start of the document. When a sign is used, the command will
                      move the cursor a relative number of lines from the current position;
                      a positive number moving it towards the end of the text and a negative
                      number towards the start. If you don't specify a line number, you can
                      use one of the following settings:
                      LINE_START or LINE_END: places cursor at the beginning or end of the
                      current line. This feature treats a line as if word wrap is turned
                      off.
                      SELECT_START or SELECT_END: places cursor at the beginning or end of
                      the selection and unselects the text.
                      TEXT_START or TEXT_END: moves to start or end of a plain document or
                      the content of an Outline heading.
                      DOC_START or DOC_END: moves to start or end of any kind of document.
                      ---------

                      which offers another approach to ^!KeyBoard DOWN

                      --
                      Regards,

                      Robert Bull
                      mailto:barlennan@... <mailto:barlennan%40yahoo.co.uk>



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