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No Save-As for Clip Editing

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  • Art Kocsis
    As with a regular document, many of us have a need to save an editing session under a different name. However, the Save-As function is not available when
    Message 1 of 15 , May 15, 2012
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      As with a regular document, many of us have a need to save an editing
      session under a different name. However, the "Save-As" function is not
      available when editing clips (for any version of NT). This is more than a
      convenience, it could be disaster recovery.

      I suspect most of us at one time or another have made an unintended global
      change that affected much more than the current clip and need to keep the
      current *.bak file, the current disk image as well as the open edit session
      to recover. At present, one has to switch focus to an external file manager
      to capture/rename to pertinent files and do this quickly as an auto save
      may be looming.


      Namaste', Art
    • Alec Burgess
      ... Art: I feel your pain, I ve done it many times too :-( Why not set backup method to [Incremental]? Granted, you wind up with a lot of never-needed
      Message 2 of 15 , May 15, 2012
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        On 2012-05-15 22:20, Art Kocsis wrote:
        > I suspect most of us at one time or another have made an unintended
        > global
        > change that affected much more than the current clip and need to keep the
        > current *.bak file, the current disk image as well as the open edit
        > session
        > to recover. At present, one has to switch focus to an external file
        > manager
        > to capture/rename to pertinent files and do this quickly as an auto save
        > may be looming.

        Art: I feel your pain, I've done it many times too :-(

        Why not set backup method to [Incremental]? Granted, you wind up with a
        lot of never-needed incremental backups but with (eg) Everything.exe you
        can quickly find them all, sort by create date and (forinstance) delete
        all backups older than 3 days.

        --
        Regards ... Alec (buralex@gmail & WinLiveMess - alec.m.burgess@skype)
      • Alec Burgess
        ... Art: I feel your pain, I ve done it many times too :-( Why not set backup method to [Incremental]? Granted, you wind up with a lot of never-needed
        Message 3 of 15 , May 15, 2012
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          On 2012-05-15 22:20, Art Kocsis wrote:
          > I suspect most of us at one time or another have made an unintended
          > global
          > change that affected much more than the current clip and need to keep the
          > current *.bak file, the current disk image as well as the open edit
          > session
          > to recover. At present, one has to switch focus to an external file
          > manager
          > to capture/rename to pertinent files and do this quickly as an auto save
          > may be looming.

          Art: I feel your pain, I've done it many times too :-(

          Why not set backup method to [Incremental]? Granted, you wind up with a
          lot of never-needed incremental backups but with (eg) Everything.exe you
          can quickly find them all, sort by create date and (forinstance) delete
          all backups older than 3 days.

          --
          Regards ... Alec (buralex@gmail & WinLiveMess - alec.m.burgess@skype)
        • Art Kocsis
          ... Thanks for the suggestion but that wouldn t really work for me. I ve looked at Everything.exe before but it has one, game stopper drawback: It only works
          Message 4 of 15 , May 15, 2012
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            At 5/15/2012 08:51 PM, you wrote:
            >On 2012-05-15 22:20, Art Kocsis wrote:
            > > I suspect most of us at one time or another have made an unintended
            > > global change that affected much more than the current clip and need
            > > to keep the current *.bak file, the current disk image as well as the
            > > open edit session to recover. At present, one has to switch focus to
            > > an external file manager to capture/rename to pertinent files and do
            > > this quickly as an auto save may be looming.
            >
            >Art: I feel your pain, I've done it many times too :-(
            >
            >Why not set backup method to [Incremental]? Granted, you wind up
            >lwith a ot of never-needed incremental backups but with (eg) Everything
            >.exe you can quickly find them all, sort by create date and (forinstance)
            >delete all backups older than 3 days.

            Thanks for the suggestion but that wouldn't really work for me.

            I've looked at Everything.exe before but it has one, game stopper drawback:
            It only works on NTFS disks. I always keep a couple of FAT disks online
            just in case I have to reboot with W98 or recover after a crash. Besides,
            with over 20 logical disks spanning about 6 TB of space and over 1.5 M
            files I think it would be a major bottle neck.

            I use ZTree for my file manager but it is so much more. In fact, ZTree is the
            first program that I install on a new build. It is actually physically
            painful to
            be forced to use Windows Explorer or anything similar. It would be like
            being forced to use the old DOS Edln program after using Notetab.

            I don't have to rescue/recover a cliplib doesn't happen often enough warrant
            incremental backups but it is a pain when it happens. I really wish there
            was a setting to limit the Replace All to just the current clip or outline. NT
            is somewhat inconsistent and misleading in what it considers the current doc.
            Commands such as Cntl Home/End, select/copy all, print, etc all the current
            clip as the entirety of the open doc and one can easily be lulled into
            forgetfulness that Find & Replace treat the library/outline globally.

            Art
          • flo.gehrke
            ... Art, An easy workaround for this is to choose Tools | Clipbook | Open library (as standard document) and to save it as NewName.CLB . The new CLB is
            Message 5 of 15 , May 16, 2012
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              --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Art Kocsis <artkns@...> wrote:
              >
              > As with a regular document, many of us have a need to save an
              > editing session under a different name. However, the "Save-As"
              > function is not available when editing clips (for any version of
              > NT).

              Art,

              An easy workaround for this is to choose 'Tools | Clipbook | Open library (as standard document)' and to save it as 'NewName.CLB'.

              The new CLB is immediately available in NT.

              Regards,
              Flo
            • Robert Bull
              Hello, Art; Wednesday, May 16, 2012, 6:17:50 AM, you wrote: AK I really wish there was a setting to limit the Replace All to just AK the current clip or
              Message 6 of 15 , May 16, 2012
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                Hello, Art;

                Wednesday, May 16, 2012, 6:17:50 AM, you wrote:

                AK> I really wish there was a setting to limit the Replace All to just
                AK> the current clip or outline.

                +1! Oh, +1 !!

                --
                Regards,

                Robert Bull
                mailto:barlennan@...
              • Eb
                Hmm, I see the option Open library, but only get a list of libraries to chose from. On the other hand, if you right-click on the library name (above the
                Message 7 of 15 , May 16, 2012
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                  Hmm,

                  I see the option Open library, but only get a list of libraries to chose from.

                  On the other hand, if you right-click on the library name (above the clipbook), you have the option to open the current lib as document, which does not exit the clip editor.

                  By the way, if you edit in the clip editor, the changes seem to be written to the library open as document immediately, unlike earlier editions, where you had to reload.

                  BUT, if you mark the library "document" as read-only, editing a clip in the clip editor not only overrides the READ-ONLY property. It RESETS it in the Document menu.

                  So you have neither the featrue of the complete UNCHANGED document still available, NOR do you have a READ-ONLY protection of that document.

                  One way to protect yourself from replacing the whold document accidentally is to edit the "document" rather than the clip. This gives you multiple undos, AND forces you into a safer editing style.

                  Cheers,


                  Eb


                  --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, "flo.gehrke" <flo.gehrke@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Art Kocsis <artkns@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > As with a regular document, many of us have a need to save an
                  > > editing session under a different name. However, the "Save-As"
                  > > function is not available when editing clips (for any version of
                  > > NT).
                  >
                  > Art,
                  >
                  > An easy workaround for this is to choose 'Tools | Clipbook | Open library (as standard document)' and to save it as 'NewName.CLB'.
                  >
                  > The new CLB is immediately available in NT.
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > Flo
                  >
                • Art Kocsis
                  ... I thought this was a partial work around but it is not. It allows you to capture the current on disk file image and save it under a different name but it
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 16, 2012
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                    >--- In <mailto:notetab%40yahoogroups.com>notetab@yahoogroups.com,
                    >"flo.gehrke" <flo.gehrke@...> wrote:
                    > > --- In <mailto:notetab%40yahoogroups.com>notetab@yahoogroups.com, Art
                    > Kocsis <artkns@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > As with a regular document, many of us have a need to save an
                    > > > editing session under a different name. However, the "Save-As"
                    > > > function is not available when editing clips (for any version of
                    > > > NT).
                    > >
                    > > Art,
                    > >
                    > > An easy workaround for this is to choose 'Tools | Clipbook | Open
                    > library (as standard document)' and to save it as 'NewName.CLB'.
                    > >
                    > > The new CLB is immediately available in NT.
                    > >
                    > > Flo
                    At 5/16/2012 03:51 PM, Eb wrote:
                    >Hmm,
                    >
                    >I see the option Open library, but only get a list of libraries to chose from.
                    >
                    >On the other hand, if you right-click on the library name (above the
                    >clipbook), you have the option to open the current lib as document, which
                    >does not exit the clip editor.
                    >
                    >By the way, if you edit in the clip editor, the changes seem to be written
                    >to the library open as document immediately, unlike earlier editions,
                    >where you had to reload.
                    >
                    >BUT, if you mark the library "document" as read-only, editing a clip in
                    >the clip editor not only overrides the READ-ONLY property. It RESETS it in
                    >the Document menu.
                    >
                    >So you have neither the featrue of the complete UNCHANGED document still
                    >available, NOR do you have a READ-ONLY protection of that document.
                    >
                    >One way to protect yourself from replacing the whold document accidentally
                    >is to edit the "document" rather than the clip. This gives you multiple
                    >undos, AND forces you into a safer editing style.

                    I thought this was a partial work around but it is not. It allows you to
                    capture the current on disk file image and save it under a different name
                    but it would just be a duplicate of the *.bak file created by
                    a normal/automatic clip edit tab save. It would not preserve the current
                    *.bak file. Only an external file manager will do that. Neither can you
                    quickly save the current editing session as copy all only saves the single
                    clip in focus. Adding a "Save-As" option for clip editing would be a useful
                    and welcome addition but what would really help would be the option to
                    restrict the Replace all to the current clip.

                    Editing a large cliplib as a regular document would be a major pain as well
                    as an invitation to disaster. In the clip editor most of the navigation
                    commands thankfully restrict movement to the current clip and one can
                    easily switch among clips no matter where they are or what their size.
                    Navigating the entire document is a nightmare, especially switching between
                    two clips with a large intervening clip between them.

                    Using NTP's bookmarks would ease repeated navigation somewhat but not
                    finding a clip initially. Since NTP won't handle proportional fonts I can't
                    use it for 100% of my work and with the differences in clip and keyboard
                    behavior it would be begging for disaster switching back and forth.
                  • Marcelo Bastos
                    ... I also used to worry about having my files locked in an NTFS volume, but I stopped doing so several years ago. Thing is, there are several ways to access
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 17, 2012
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                      Interviewed by CNN on 16/05/2012 02:17, Art Kocsis told the world:
                      > I've looked at Everything.exe before but it has one, game stopper drawback:
                      > It only works on NTFS disks. I always keep a couple of FAT disks online
                      > just in case I have to reboot with W98 or recover after a crash. Besides,
                      > with over 20 logical disks spanning about 6 TB of space and over 1.5 M
                      > files I think it would be a major bottle neck.
                      I also used to worry about having my files "locked" in an NTFS volume,
                      but I stopped doing so several years ago.

                      Thing is, there are several ways to access data in an NTFS disk nowadays
                      if you have a crash or something:

                      - First, obviously, you can simply plug the disk in a working Windows
                      machine. That can be somewhat of a bother if your only working Windows
                      machine is a notebook, I admit, but that's a hardware limitation, not
                      software. And anyway, there are reasonably-priced adapters and cases
                      that will allow you to plug the HD into an USB port.

                      - You can also use a Windows LiveCD-like tool like UBCD 4 Win or Hiren's
                      Boot CD to access the data and backup it.

                      - Even the Windows Recovery Console may be enough at times, and that's
                      available on any Windows install disk.

                      - Leaving the Windows world behind, NTFS-3G is quite mature, and comes
                      preloaded, I believe, in most Linux and *BSD distros and also in Mac OSX.

                      That won't help much with Win98, of course (even if there are a couple
                      NTFS drivers for Windows 98 around). But then, I relegated Win9x and
                      similar relics to VirtualBox-land years ago, too. I fire it, or
                      WinWG3.11, or NT 4, up for one or two hours a year just for laughs and
                      to cause weird blips on site usage statistics. ("Hey, there's a guy
                      here accessing our site with Netscape 1.0 on WFWG! Can you believe
                      it?"). I shudder at the thought of using them to do actual *work*. (I
                      used to have to support a machine running Win98 for a customer, who had
                      some old equipment that only communicated with their proprietary
                      software... that only ran on 9x. Fortunately, the unsupported ancient
                      piece of garbage finally gave up the ghost and they bought a more modern
                      piece of kit... now I only have to worry about supporting XP and
                      communication via RS-232C, but I probably will be able to nurse a few
                      machines for that for some five years yet.)

                      FAT/FAT32 is inefficient on large volumes, lacks conveniences like hard
                      links/symlinks and is very fragile compared to NTFS and other more
                      modern file systems. I mean, losing data to lost and crosslinked
                      clusters was a very, very common occurrence back in the FAT32 days.
                      Nowadays I only use it for SD cards (where it's sorta standard, many
                      cameras and similar equipment won't understand other formats) and small
                      portable Flash drives, mostly because its *lack* of a file permissions
                      system makes it convenient for moving data around.

                      --
                      MCBastos

                      This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized use will be prosecuted under the DMCA.
                    • Eb
                      See incontext answers ... Not at all. Save AS captures the image currently in the document editor, which, if unsaved is DIFFERENT from on-disk version (or .bak
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 19, 2012
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                        See incontext answers

                        --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Art Kocsis <artkns@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > ...
                        > > ...
                        > >One way to protect yourself from replacing the whold document accidentally
                        > >is to edit the "document" rather than the clip. This gives you multiple
                        > >undos, AND forces you into a safer editing style.
                        >
                        > I thought this was a partial work around but it is not. It allows you to
                        > capture the current on disk file image and save it under a different name
                        > but it would just be a duplicate of the *.bak file created by

                        Not at all. Save AS captures the image currently in the document editor, which, if unsaved is DIFFERENT from on-disk version (or .bak version).

                        > a normal/automatic clip edit tab save. It would not preserve the current
                        > *.bak file. Only an external file manager will do that.

                        Yes, it WOULD preserve the current .bak file. If you Save AS, both existing disk versions are left untouched.

                        My aversion to this approach is, that the open document changes to the Saved AS version, which means one has to RE-open the working file.

                        > ...
                        > option to restrict the Replace all to the current clip.

                        Yes, I agree. On the other hand, Selecting the entire clip invokes the "replace within selection" option. If this doesn't work (as happened in the past) it would be a BUG, rather than a lack of features.

                        > ...
                        > Editing a large cliplib as a regular document would be a major pain as well
                        > as an invitation to disaster.

                        Yes, agree, except for the fact, that unlike editing in a clip, document editing allows two ways of RECOVERING from disasters.

                        1. MULTIPLE Undos
                        2. Reload (which by the way is possible with a UNSAVED edits in the clip editor as well: instead of Reload, just CHANGE CLIPS, and answer NOT to "save changes?" prompt)

                        > ...
                        > Since NTP won't handle proportional fonts I can't
                        > use it for 100% of my work ...

                        I suspect most NTP users have other apps for dealing with proportional fonts.

                        Since both NTP and NTS support clipbars, and can both use the same libraries folder (/USER commandline switch), you could create a clipbar with the functions, that encounter dofferences between the two NT versions, and call clips that detect the version, and handle each version differently.

                        For example, the cursor position after a selection.

                        Running both NTP and NTS simultaneously may require custom commandlines (different INI files, shared user folder), but you can add the commandline switches to the shortcuts, AFTER they are created.
                        See Help/Help Topics/Reference Information/Other Features/Commandline.


                        Cheers,

                        Eb
                      • Art Kocsis
                        ... Not sure what you are saying here. yes, Save-AS does work that way. That is why I was lamenting that it is NOT available when editing clips. That was the
                        Message 11 of 15 , May 19, 2012
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                          At 5/19/2012 05:52 AM, Eb wrote:
                          >--- In <mailto:notetab%40yahoogroups.com>notetab@yahoogroups.com, Art
                          >Kocsis <artkns@...> wrote:
                          > > >One way to protect yourself from replacing the whole document
                          > accidentally
                          > > >is to edit the "document" rather than the clip. This gives you multiple
                          > > >undos, AND forces you into a safer editing style.
                          > >
                          > > I thought this was a partial work around but it is not. It allows you to
                          > > capture the current on disk file image and save it under a different name
                          > > but it would just be a duplicate of the *.bak file created by
                          >
                          >Not at all. Save AS captures the image currently in the document editor,
                          >which, if unsaved is DIFFERENT from on-disk version (or .bak version).
                          Not sure what you are saying here. yes, Save-AS does work that way. That is
                          why I was lamenting that it is NOT available when editing clips. That was
                          the whole subject of my post.


                          > > a normal/automatic clip edit tab save. It would not preserve the current
                          > > *.bak file. Only an external file manager will do that.
                          >
                          >Yes, it WOULD preserve the current .bak file. If you Save AS, both
                          >existing disk versions are left untouched.
                          Again, Save AS is not available in the clip editor. The sentence says "a
                          normal/automatic clip edit tab save" which deletes the previous *.bak file
                          and renames the current file to *.bak (or whatever you have set your
                          options). Don't suggest incremental backup. I already discussed that.


                          >My aversion to this approach is, that the open document changes to the
                          >Saved AS version, which means one has to RE-open the working file.
                          It is a small price to pay.


                          > > option to restrict the Replace all to the current clip.
                          >
                          >Yes, I agree. On the other hand, Selecting the entire clip invokes the
                          >"replace within selection" option. If this doesn't work (as happened in
                          >the past) it would be a BUG, rather than a lack of features.
                          I would consider that a risky workaround as well as always extra work. How
                          many times have you forgotten which mode you were in and/or pressed the
                          wrong button?


                          > > Editing a large cliplib as a regular document would be a major pain as
                          > well
                          > > as an invitation to disaster.
                          >
                          >Yes, agree, except for the fact, that unlike editing in a clip, document
                          >editing allows two ways of RECOVERING from disasters.
                          >
                          >1. MULTIPLE Undos
                          Only in Pro


                          >2. Reload (which by the way is possible with a UNSAVED edits in the clip
                          >editor as well: instead of Reload, just CHANGE CLIPS, and answer NOT to
                          >"save changes?" prompt)
                          Reload destroys the current edits. Please reread my original post.


                          > > Since NTP won't handle proportional fonts I can't
                          > > use it for 100% of my work ...
                          >I suspect most NTP users have other apps for dealing with proportional fonts.
                          Yes I do. Notetab Standard. As well as others but I have a huge investment
                          in clips that I don't want to waste.


                          >Since both NTP and NTS support clipbars, and can both use the same
                          >libraries folder (/USER commandline switch), you could create a clipbar
                          >with the functions, that encounter dofferences between the two NT
                          >versions, and call clips that detect the version, and handle each version
                          >differently.
                          >
                          >For example, the cursor position after a selection.
                          >
                          >Running both NTP and NTS simultaneously may require custom commandlines
                          >(different INI files, shared user folder), but you can add the commandline
                          >switches to the shortcuts, AFTER they are created. See Help/Help
                          >Topics/Reference Information/Other Features/Commandline.
                          I have spent many hours customizing Notetab and over riding the default
                          behaviors to use common libraries and clipbars and am very familiar with
                          /USER (as well as registry edits to redefine file associations and shell
                          command lines. I am NOT going to waste any more time trying to keep
                          multiple libraries and/or clipbars synchronized. That is a recipe for disaster.

                          I have spent days chasing differences between Std & Pro just for this
                          pre-release and I am not going to spend untold hours analyzing behaviors to
                          workaround deficiencies in Notetab. There is no excuse for these user
                          traps. Other than the ^$GetEditorType$ command, there is no mention or
                          warnings in the help files of all the gotchas between the two versions.

                          There is nothing compelling in the Pro version to entice me to put up with
                          these inherent problems. The touted speed improvement is unnoticeable for
                          most operations. As I said before, I processed multi-megabyte files,
                          including internet downloads in seconds using Notetab Std. Possibly shaving
                          a few off using Pro is irrelevant. Multiple undos and clipcode highlights
                          are nice but not that big a deal and not worth the cost. If I really want
                          clipcode highlighting I will define the syntax in Notepad++ and use it.
                          NP++ has a lot more features to aid programming than NTP.

                          Art
                        • Eb
                          Art, I ve used this technique on other stuff before. Sorry it didn t occur to me sooner. The power of NoteTab to the rescue. It only takes 3 lines of clip code
                          Message 12 of 15 , May 20, 2012
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                            Art,

                            I've used this technique on other stuff before. Sorry it didn't occur to me sooner. The power of NoteTab to the rescue.

                            It only takes 3 lines of clip code to provide a "Save AS" function for the clip editor:

                            ^!SetFocus CLIPBOOK
                            ; places the cursor into the clipbook
                            ^!Keyboard &50 TAB &50 SHIFT+F10 &50 SHIFT+O
                            ; tab to the title pane,
                            ; SHIFT+F10 pops up incontext menu;
                            ; O opens the library as document
                            ^!Menu File/"Save AS"

                            You will of course need to supply a name, and then close the document.
                            This code will run from the clipbar!


                            Eb

                            --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Art Kocsis <artkns@...> wrote:

                            > Save-AS ... when editing clips ... was the whole subject of my post.
                          • Art Kocsis
                            ... Sorry Eb, but I have to say this again - this is NOT a Save- as for the clip editor! There are three file images, all of which need to be captured: The
                            Message 13 of 15 , May 20, 2012
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                              At 5/20/2012 12:11 PM, Eb wrote:
                              >Art,
                              >
                              >I've used this technique on other stuff before. Sorry it didn't occur to
                              >me sooner. The power of NoteTab to the rescue.
                              >
                              >It only takes 3 lines of clip code to provide a "Save AS" function for the
                              >clip editor:
                              >
                              >^!SetFocus CLIPBOOK
                              >; places the cursor into the clipbook
                              >^!Keyboard &50 TAB &50 SHIFT+F10 &50 SHIFT+O
                              >; tab to the title pane,
                              >; SHIFT+F10 pops up incontext menu;
                              >; O opens the library as document
                              >^!Menu File/"Save AS"
                              >
                              >You will of course need to supply a name, and then close the document.
                              >This code will run from the clipbar!

                              Sorry Eb, but I have to say this again - this is NOT a "Save-
                              as" for the clip editor!

                              There are three file images, all of which need to be captured:
                              The current open clip editor session, ==> <new_name>.clb
                              The current on-disk file image, <orig_name>.clb
                              The current on-disk backup file image, <orig_name>.bak

                              Your clip only captures one - the current on-disk file image,
                              <orig_name>.clb - NOT the open clip editor image. This image
                              would be captured anyway by a normal "Save" file operation.

                              The normal save captures only two of the images - the open
                              cliplib image and the current on-disk image. It destroys the
                              current on-disk backup file image. (The normal "Save" deletes
                              the current <orig_name>.bak file, renames the current (last
                              saved), on-disk image, <orig_name>.clb to <orig_name>.bak,
                              and then saves the open document image to <orig_name>.clb).
                              The file image captured by your clip would be identical to
                              the new <orig_name>.bak.

                              A true "save-as" command saves the current open document
                              under a (potentially) different name, preserving both the
                              current document saved file image as well as the last backup
                              file image, and changes the open document name to the new
                              document name.

                              Your clip could be modified to rename the current backup
                              file, <orig_name>.bak, to <orig_name>.sav and capture the
                              critical file images but that still would not be a true
                              "Save-As" for the clip editor.

                              In order to implement a true "Save-As" you would have to:

                              1) Get the current open cliplib file name - <orig_name>.clb
                              2) Copy the current on-disk cliplib backup file image,
                              <orig_name>.bak, to a new unique name, say,
                              <orig_name>^$GetDate(hhnnss)$.sav
                              3) Do a normal "Save" of the open clip editor session (which
                              will rename the current <orig_name>.clb to <orig_name>.bak
                              and save the current edit session to <orig_name>.clb.
                              (Note: if the open cliplib is in a no-change status,
                              "Save" will be disabled and no new <orig_name>.bak file
                              will be created. That is why you must copy rather than
                              rename in the previous step.)
                              4) Rename the (now current), ON-DISK <orig_name>.clb file
                              image to a new user supplied name, <new_name>.clb. Or,
                              it might be better to create a unique new name and let the
                              user rename it after the critical files are safely captured
                              before autosave destroys the <orig_name>.bak file.
                              5) Switch the clip editor focus to the renamed on-disk image,
                              <new_name>.clb
                              6) Rename the original cliplib on-disk image (which was
                              preserved as <orig_name>.bak), back to <orig_name>.clb.
                              7) Rename the original cliplib backup file image (which was
                              preserved as <orig_name><unique_string>.sav), back to
                              <orig_name>.bak.

                              Remember, ^$GetDate(hhnnss)$ returns the current time
                              values which may change during the execution of the clip
                              so save it to a variable to use in the restoration.

                              Thus the original on-disk file image and its back up image
                              (if any), are preserved unchanged and the clip editor focus
                              is in a renamed, captured image of the edit session.

                              (At least they should be if I haven't messed up with a typo
                              or brain crash. <g>)

                              So, yes, it is possible (and not very difficult), to create such
                              a rescue clip. It is just not as simple as you suggested. If
                              you want to write it, we will be glad to use it.

                              Art
                            • Eb
                              Art, Perhaps _you_ out to go back and read your own posts again, where you ask for a Save AS option in the clip editor. Then you might experiment with Save
                              Message 14 of 15 , May 21, 2012
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                                Art,

                                Perhaps _you_ out to go back and read your own posts again, where you ask for a "Save AS" option in the clip editor.

                                Then you might experiment with Save AS. Pick any application, to see what you can realistically expect. Carefully monitor the various files you THINK are being affected.

                                As long as you're just backing up, NoteTab's "Save AS" will save the current document in its current state to another name. That's all. Just like any other editor.

                                The original file is left untouched in its last-saved state.
                                The backup file is left untouched in its last-saved state.

                                You even get this right in your post, once out of three different tries. See in-context comments to your post below.


                                I leave it to you to figure out how my solution differs from the above. Hint, it does MORE that the normal Save AS.


                                Eb

                                --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Art Kocsis <artkns@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > >...
                                >

                                First you want to capture THREE files with Save AS:

                                > There are three file images, all of which need to be captured:
                                > The current open clip editor session, ==> <new_name>.clb
                                > The current on-disk file image, <orig_name>.clb
                                > The current on-disk backup file image, <orig_name>.bak

                                Then you cotradict yourself, claiming that only one file is affected, since "preserving" means it leaves the file content "untouched":

                                > A true "save-as" command saves the current open document
                                > under a (potentially) different name, preserving both the
                                > current document saved file image as well as the last backup
                                > file image, and changes the open document name to the new
                                > document name.

                                Finally you come back to expecting Save As to copy three files, getting it wrong again:

                                > In order to implement a true "Save-As" you would have to:
                                >
                                > 1) Get the current open cliplib file name - <orig_name>.clb
                                > 2) Copy the current on-disk cliplib backup file image,
                                > <orig_name>.bak, to a new unique name, say,
                                > <orig_name>^$GetDate(hhnnss)$.sav

                                Here is where I stopped reading. You are no longer just being argumetnative with the group, but with yourself as well.
                              • Art Kocsis
                                As this seems to be going nowhere, I will give it this one last try and then drop it. ... Exactly, IN THE CLIP EDITOR! It s already available elsewhere. ...
                                Message 15 of 15 , May 23, 2012
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                                  As this seems to be going nowhere, I will give it this one last try and
                                  then drop it.

                                  At 5/21/2012 07:54 AM, Eb wrote:
                                  >Perhaps _you_ out to go back and read your own posts again, where you ask
                                  >for a "Save AS" option in the clip editor.
                                  Exactly, IN THE CLIP EDITOR! It's already available elsewhere.


                                  >Then you might experiment with Save AS. Pick any application, to see what
                                  >you can realistically expect. Carefully monitor the various files you
                                  >THINK are being affected.
                                  >As long as you're just backing up, NoteTab's "Save AS" will save the
                                  >current document in
                                  >its current state to another name. That's all. Just like any other editor.
                                  >
                                  >The original file is left untouched in its last-saved state.
                                  >The backup file is left untouched in its last-saved state.

                                  That is exactly what I said - every time. And the Save As also saves the
                                  open doc under a new name and leaves the focus of the editor in the newly
                                  renamed document.

                                  Why do you keep going back to Save As in a regular doc? The subject has
                                  always been a Save As for the clip editor session.


                                  >I leave it to you to figure out how my solution differs from the above.
                                  >Hint, it does MORE that the normal Save AS.
                                  I'm not trying to make an enemy here but I this is simply not so.

                                  Your clip only loads the current clip editor cliplib as a regular document
                                  and opens the Save As menu. It does NOT save the open clip editor session
                                  at all, let alone under a new name nor return focus to a renamed cliplib in
                                  the clip editor.

                                  You ought to test it. I did. Enter a unique string in one of the clips in
                                  an UNSAVED clip edit session, run your clip and then try and find the
                                  string in your "Save-As" document. You won't.

                                  What is missing:
                                  The current clip editor session is not saved.
                                  The clip editor open cliplib is not renamed.
                                  The focus is not returned to the clip editor.


                                  --- In <mailto:notetab%40yahoogroups.com>notetab@yahoogroups.com, Art
                                  Kocsis <artkns@...> wrote:
                                  >First you want to capture THREE files with Save AS:
                                  >
                                  > > There are three file images, all of which need to be captured:
                                  > > The current open clip editor session, ==> <new_name>.clb
                                  > > The current on-disk file image, <orig_name>.clb
                                  > > The current on-disk backup file image, <orig_name>.bak
                                  >
                                  >Then you cotradict yourself, claiming that only one file is affected,
                                  >since "preserving" means it leaves the file content "untouched":
                                  My post detailed the steps needed to implement the functionality of a CLIP
                                  EDITOR SAVE AS. I did not contradict my self. FYI, copying and renaming
                                  files do not affect their contents. Since Notetab does not have a Save As
                                  feature for the clip editor, a clip has to do more to create the same final
                                  state. This involves copying ONE file and renaming others. When the clip is
                                  done, the state of the system is exactly as it would be if Notetab had a
                                  Save As for the clip editor:

                                  The original file content and name are left identical to its last-saved state.
                                  The backup file content and name are left identical to its last-saved state.
                                  The cliplib current clip editor session is saved under a new name
                                  The clip editor is open and focused in the newly named cliplib

                                  You can stop reading and close your mind but that does not change reality.

                                  I am not going to waste anymore of my or this forum's time on this thread.

                                  Art
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