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Re: [NTB] Pre-Rlse#5 Feedback: Select EOL Inconsistancies:

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  • Eb
    Hi Art, In the version 7, selecting to the end of the line, with or without the EOL is entirely up to the user, and consistent between NTPro and NTStd. At
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 17 2:08 PM
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      Hi Art,

      In the version 7, selecting to the end of the line, with or without the EOL is entirely up to the user, and consistent between NTPro and NTStd. At least as far as I've tested.

      I cannot duplicate any differences.

      You click on the begin of the line, the entire line, incl eol, is selected. Both editions.

      Both the mouse and the cursor keys work the same way in Pro and Std. You do have to press the SHIFT key to make a selection with the keyboard.

      Use the mouse or cursor key to drag the selection from the start to the end does NOT select the EOL character(s).

      Use the mopuse or cursor to drag to the start of the next line DOES include the EOL.

      ^!Select EOL
      does NOT include the EOL

      ^!Select LINE
      DOES include it,

      in both, Pro and Std.

      What methods have I missed, that are inconsistent?


      Cheers,


      Eb

      --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Art Kocsis <artkns@...> wrote:
      >
      > Although this is not new with v7, perhaps it is an opportunity to correct
      > this behavior.
      >
      > Select to end-of-line does not include the line termination character(s) in
      > most cases. It is true for all methods (mouse Shift-drag, keyboard
      > Shift-End or clip ^!Select EOL), in Notetab Pro but only for clip ^!Select
      > EOL in Notetab Std. Mouse Shift-drag and keyboard Shift-End does include
      > line terminations in Notetab Std (left to right but not right to left). The
      > inconsistency in Notetab Std is confusing and seems unnecessary. Since it
      > only affects the manual UI, the inconsistency could be removed without much
      > breakage.
      >
      > Namste', Art
      >
    • Art Kocsis
      Long analysis follows (sorry). See summary at bottom. ... 1) How are you testing v7 Std??? All Eric posted, and all I get for the prerelease, is the pro
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 20 6:47 PM
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        Long analysis follows (sorry). See summary at bottom.


        >--- In <mailto:notetab%40yahoogroups.com>notetab@yahoogroups.com, Art
        >Kocsis <artkns@...> wrote:
        > > Although this is not new with v7, perhaps it is an opportunity to correct
        > > this behavior.
        > >
        > > Select to end-of-line does not include the line termination
        > character(s) in
        > > most cases. It is true for all methods (mouse Shift-drag, keyboard
        > > Shift-End or clip ^!Select EOL), in Notetab Pro but only for clip ^!Select
        > > EOL in Notetab Std. Mouse Shift-drag and keyboard Shift-End does include
        > > line terminations in Notetab Std (left to right but not right to left).
        > The
        > > inconsistency in Notetab Std is confusing and seems unnecessary. Since it
        > > only affects the manual UI, the inconsistency could be removed without
        > much
        > > breakage.

        At 4/17/2012 02:08 PM, Eb wrote:
        >In the version 7, selecting to the end of the line, with or without the
        >EOL is entirely up to the user, and consistent between NTPro and NTStd. At
        >least as far as I've tested.
        1) How are you testing v7 Std??? All Eric posted, and all I get for the
        prerelease, is the pro version!

        2) Including the line termination character(s) is NOT up to the user - it
        is a behavior of the app. The UI DISPLAY of non-printing characters (which
        includes the CRLF) in NTP is a user option - totally independent of any
        selection. In NT Std, display of non-printing characters is not available
        but a single blank screen position is highlighted for a CRLF when selected.

        >I cannot duplicate any differences.
        >You click on the begin of the line, the entire line, incl eol, is
        >selected. Both editions.
        Perhaps you need to look more carefully. Perhaps you didn't notice that the
        cursor moved to the next line in NTP but doesn't in NT Std.

        >Both the mouse and the cursor keys work the same way in Pro and Std. You
        >do have to press the SHIFT key to make a selection with the keyboard.
        Yes, Eb, I am very well aware of how Shift and Cntl-Shift keyboard
        highlighting works. Thank you very much.

        >Use the mouse or cursor key to drag the selection from the start to the
        >end does NOT select the EOL character(s).
        Yes it does in NT Standard! Tested in NT Std versions 4, 5 and 6.

        >Use the mopuse or cursor to drag to the start of the next line DOES
        >include the EOL.
        Obviously. The discussion is about single line selections.

        >^!Select EOL does NOT include the EOL
        That is what I said.

        >^!Select LINE DOES include it,
        The post was primarily about UI differences but (see below), it turns out
        there are critical clip differences as well.

        >in both, Pro and Std.
        >What methods have I missed, that are inconsistent?
        See below.


        Mouse behavior (With non-printing characters turned on in NTP):
        ==============================================
        In NT Std (L-R): Clicking on BOL selects the entire line, including the
        CRLF and LEAVES the cursor positioned at col 1 of the SAME line

        In NT Pro (L-R): Clicking on BOL selects the entire line, including the
        CRLF and but MOVES the cursor to col 1 of the NEXT line.

        In NT Std (L-R): Sweeping the mouse from BOL to EOL selects the entire
        line, INcluding the CRLF and LEAVES the cursor positioned on the same line
        at BEGINNING OF LINE.

        In NT Pro (L-R): Sweeping the mouse from BOL to EOL selects the entire
        line, EXcluding the CRLF and MOVES the cursor on the same line but at the
        END OF LINE.

        (R-L): Sweeping the mouse from EOL to BOL selects the entire line, EXcluding
        the CRLF and positions the cursor at col 1 for both NT Std and NT Pro.

        Keyboard behavior:
        ==============
        Essentially identical behavior as with the mouse.
        In NT Std (L-R): Pressing Shift-End from BOL selects the entire line,
        INcluding the CRLF and LEAVES the cursor positioned on the same line at
        BEGINNING OF LINE.

        In NT Pro (L-R): Pressing Shift-End from BOL selects the entire line,
        EXcluding the CRLF and MOVES the cursor on the same line but at the END OF
        LINE.

        (R-L): Pressing Shift-Home from EOL selects the entire line, EXcluding
        the CRLF and positions the cursor at col 1 for both NT Std and NT Pro.

        Clip behavior (Here's where it gets really messy)
        ===================================
        In NT Std (L-R): ^!Select EOL from BOL selects the entire line, EXcluding
        the CRLF
        The NT Std status line displays BOS/BOL values
        The clip Row:Col values are Beginning Of Selection (BOS) (same row, col 1)
        ^!Select 0 leaves the cursor positioned at BOS/BOL (same row, col 1)
        ^!MoveCursor +n starts from the EOS/EOL (before the CRLF)
        ^!MoveCursor -n starts from the BOS/BOL

        In NT Pro (L-R): The CLIP behavior is identical (same selection, same
        Row:Col values, same subsequent cursor movements), except for ^!Keyboard
        Left | Right commands.
        The NT Pro STATUS LINE displays EOS/EOL values

        These status bar display differences are also evident in the subsequent
        clip behavior of ^!Keyboard ^!Keyboard Left | Right commands or if the clip
        is canceled after the ^!Select EOL command (the selection is still
        highlighted) and an arrow key is pressed.

        In NT Std, a ^!Keyboard Left command starts from the BOS/BOL position and
        moves the document position one character to the left (to the middle of the
        CRLF pair!). A ^!Keyboard Right command starts from the EOS/EOL position
        and moves the cursor position one document character to the right (again,
        to the middle of the CRLF pair!).

        In NT Pro, a ^!Keyboard Left command starts from the EOS/EOL position and
        moves the cursor position one character to the left. A ^!Keyboard Right
        command, also starts from the EOS/EOL position but treats the CRLF
        character pair as a single character and moves the cursor TWO
        document positions to the right.

        Similarly, if a clip is canceled while the selection is still highlighted,
        immediately pressing an arrow yields identical results as the respective
        clip ^!Keyboard behavior in both Std and Pro version.

        Clip behavior for Right to Left selection is identical to the Left to Right
        behavior.
        Cursor position subsequent to the selection is independent of L-R or R-L
        selection. Subsequent ^!MoveCursor +/- and ^!Select 0 behavior is
        identical. The abovementioned status line value differences also appear and
        are independent of selection direction. The ^!Keyboard Left | Right and
        arrow key left | right behavior differences also repeat.

        So, in summary:
        ============
        The UIs differ between the Starndard and Pro versions. They are annoying,
        not critical.

        Clip processing for the two versions are identical for ^!Select 0 | EOL |
        BOL and ^!MoveCursor + | - but different and potentially dangerous for
        ^!Keyboard Left | Right.

        NT Pro treats a CRLF pair as a single character in clips whereas NT Std
        sees them as two separate characters. Both UIs treat them as a single
        character.

        Nitty gritty cursor position clip programming is a b****h!

        This started out as a simple reply and grew into a major project! Aargh!!!

        Art

        PS - If you really want to see for yourself here is some test clip to play
        with:
        ;Testing Select to EOL differences in NTB Std vs NTB Pro
        ;Change comment chars as appropriate.

        ^!Jump Line_Start
        ^!Select EOL
        ; or
        ^!Jump Line_End
        ^!Select BOL
        ^!Continue Row:Col = ^$GetRow$:^$GetCol$
        ;^!Select 0
        ;^!MoveCursor -4
        ;^!MoveCursor +4
        ;^!Keyboard Left
        ;^!Keyboard Left
        ^!Keyboard Right
        ^!Keyboard Right
        ^!Continue Row:Col = ^$GetRow$:^$GetCol$
      • Eb
        I stand by my limited test results, made with NTP 7 prerelease #5, and NTS 7 prerelease #3. I ll try to duplicate some of your tests when I get matching
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 21 9:05 AM
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          I stand by my limited test results, made with NTP 7 prerelease #5, and NTS 7 prerelease #3.

          I'll try to duplicate some of your tests when I get matching prereleases for Pro and Std.


          Eb


          --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Art Kocsis <artkns@...> wrote:
          > ...
          > Keyboard behavior:
          > ==============
          > Essentially identical behavior as with the mouse.
          > In NT Std (L-R): Pressing Shift-End from BOL selects the entire line,
          > INcluding the CRLF and LEAVES the cursor positioned on the same line at
          > BEGINNING OF LINE.

          This is affected by paragraph wrapping or not.


          >
          > In NT Pro (L-R): Pressing Shift-End from BOL selects the entire line,
          > EXcluding the CRLF and MOVES the cursor on the same line but at the END OF
          > LINE.
          >
          > (R-L): Pressing Shift-Home from EOL selects the entire line, EXcluding
          > the CRLF and positions the cursor at col 1 for both NT Std and NT Pro.
          >
          > Clip behavior (Here's where it gets really messy)
          > ===================================
          > In NT Std (L-R): ^!Select EOL from BOL selects the entire line, EXcluding
          > the CRLF
          > The NT Std status line displays BOS/BOL values
          > The clip Row:Col values are Beginning Of Selection (BOS) (same row, col 1)
          > ^!Select 0 leaves the cursor positioned at BOS/BOL (same row, col 1)
          > ^!MoveCursor +n starts from the EOS/EOL (before the CRLF)
          > ^!MoveCursor -n starts from the BOS/BOL
          >
          > In NT Pro (L-R): The CLIP behavior is identical (same selection, same
          > Row:Col values, same subsequent cursor movements), except for ^!Keyboard
          > Left | Right commands.
          > The NT Pro STATUS LINE displays EOS/EOL values
          >
          > These status bar display differences are also evident in the subsequent
          > clip behavior of ^!Keyboard ^!Keyboard Left | Right commands or if the clip
          > is canceled after the ^!Select EOL command (the selection is still
          > highlighted) and an arrow key is pressed.
          >
          > In NT Std, a ^!Keyboard Left command starts from the BOS/BOL position and
          > moves the document position one character to the left (to the middle of the
          > CRLF pair!). A ^!Keyboard Right command starts from the EOS/EOL position
          > and moves the cursor position one document character to the right (again,
          > to the middle of the CRLF pair!).
          >
          > In NT Pro, a ^!Keyboard Left command starts from the EOS/EOL position and
          > moves the cursor position one character to the left. A ^!Keyboard Right
          > command, also starts from the EOS/EOL position but treats the CRLF
          > character pair as a single character and moves the cursor TWO
          > document positions to the right.
          >
          > Similarly, if a clip is canceled while the selection is still highlighted,
          > immediately pressing an arrow yields identical results as the respective
          > clip ^!Keyboard behavior in both Std and Pro version.
          >
          > Clip behavior for Right to Left selection is identical to the Left to Right
          > behavior.
          > Cursor position subsequent to the selection is independent of L-R or R-L
          > selection. Subsequent ^!MoveCursor +/- and ^!Select 0 behavior is
          > identical. The abovementioned status line value differences also appear and
          > are independent of selection direction. The ^!Keyboard Left | Right and
          > arrow key left | right behavior differences also repeat.
          >
          > So, in summary:
          > ============
          > The UIs differ between the Starndard and Pro versions. They are annoying,
          > not critical.
          >
          > Clip processing for the two versions are identical for ^!Select 0 | EOL |
          > BOL and ^!MoveCursor + | - but different and potentially dangerous for
          > ^!Keyboard Left | Right.
          >
          > NT Pro treats a CRLF pair as a single character in clips whereas NT Std
          > sees them as two separate characters. Both UIs treat them as a single
          > character.
          >
          > Nitty gritty cursor position clip programming is a b****h!
          >
          > This started out as a simple reply and grew into a major project! Aargh!!!
          >
          > Art
          >
          > PS - If you really want to see for yourself here is some test clip to play
          > with:
          > ;Testing Select to EOL differences in NTB Std vs NTB Pro
          > ;Change comment chars as appropriate.
          >
          > ^!Jump Line_Start
          > ^!Select EOL
          > ; or
          > ^!Jump Line_End
          > ^!Select BOL
          > ^!Continue Row:Col = ^$GetRow$:^$GetCol$
          > ;^!Select 0
          > ;^!MoveCursor -4
          > ;^!MoveCursor +4
          > ;^!Keyboard Left
          > ;^!Keyboard Left
          > ^!Keyboard Right
          > ^!Keyboard Right
          > ^!Continue Row:Col = ^$GetRow$:^$GetCol$
          >
        • Eb
          Art, I ve confirmed your results and summarized them - in the clip list, as my answer contains a clip to display hidden characters. Cheers, Eb
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 25 8:03 AM
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            Art, I've confirmed your results and summarized them - in the clip list, as my answer contains a clip to display hidden characters.

            Cheers,

            Eb

            --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, "Eb" <ebbtidalflats@...> wrote:
            >
            > I stand by my limited test results, made with NTP 7 prerelease #5, and NTS 7 prerelease #3.
            >
            > I'll try to duplicate some of your tests when I get matching prereleases for Pro and Std.
            >
            >
            > Eb
            >
            >
            > --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Art Kocsis <artkns@> wrote:
            > > ...
            > > Keyboard behavior:
            > > ==============
            > > Essentially identical behavior as with the mouse.
            > > In NT Std (L-R): Pressing Shift-End from BOL selects the entire line,
            > > INcluding the CRLF and LEAVES the cursor positioned on the same line at
            > > BEGINNING OF LINE.
            >
            > This is affected by paragraph wrapping or not.
            >
            >
            > >
            > > In NT Pro (L-R): Pressing Shift-End from BOL selects the entire line,
            > > EXcluding the CRLF and MOVES the cursor on the same line but at the END OF
            > > LINE.
            > >
            > > (R-L): Pressing Shift-Home from EOL selects the entire line, EXcluding
            > > the CRLF and positions the cursor at col 1 for both NT Std and NT Pro.
            > >
            > > Clip behavior (Here's where it gets really messy)
            > > ===================================
            > > In NT Std (L-R): ^!Select EOL from BOL selects the entire line, EXcluding
            > > the CRLF
            > > The NT Std status line displays BOS/BOL values
            > > The clip Row:Col values are Beginning Of Selection (BOS) (same row, col 1)
            > > ^!Select 0 leaves the cursor positioned at BOS/BOL (same row, col 1)
            > > ^!MoveCursor +n starts from the EOS/EOL (before the CRLF)
            > > ^!MoveCursor -n starts from the BOS/BOL
            > >
            > > In NT Pro (L-R): The CLIP behavior is identical (same selection, same
            > > Row:Col values, same subsequent cursor movements), except for ^!Keyboard
            > > Left | Right commands.
            > > The NT Pro STATUS LINE displays EOS/EOL values
            > >
            > > These status bar display differences are also evident in the subsequent
            > > clip behavior of ^!Keyboard ^!Keyboard Left | Right commands or if the clip
            > > is canceled after the ^!Select EOL command (the selection is still
            > > highlighted) and an arrow key is pressed.
            > >
            > > In NT Std, a ^!Keyboard Left command starts from the BOS/BOL position and
            > > moves the document position one character to the left (to the middle of the
            > > CRLF pair!). A ^!Keyboard Right command starts from the EOS/EOL position
            > > and moves the cursor position one document character to the right (again,
            > > to the middle of the CRLF pair!).
            > >
            > > In NT Pro, a ^!Keyboard Left command starts from the EOS/EOL position and
            > > moves the cursor position one character to the left. A ^!Keyboard Right
            > > command, also starts from the EOS/EOL position but treats the CRLF
            > > character pair as a single character and moves the cursor TWO
            > > document positions to the right.
            > >
            > > Similarly, if a clip is canceled while the selection is still highlighted,
            > > immediately pressing an arrow yields identical results as the respective
            > > clip ^!Keyboard behavior in both Std and Pro version.
            > >
            > > Clip behavior for Right to Left selection is identical to the Left to Right
            > > behavior.
            > > Cursor position subsequent to the selection is independent of L-R or R-L
            > > selection. Subsequent ^!MoveCursor +/- and ^!Select 0 behavior is
            > > identical. The abovementioned status line value differences also appear and
            > > are independent of selection direction. The ^!Keyboard Left | Right and
            > > arrow key left | right behavior differences also repeat.
            > >
            > > So, in summary:
            > > ============
            > > The UIs differ between the Starndard and Pro versions. They are annoying,
            > > not critical.
            > >
            > > Clip processing for the two versions are identical for ^!Select 0 | EOL |
            > > BOL and ^!MoveCursor + | - but different and potentially dangerous for
            > > ^!Keyboard Left | Right.
            > >
            > > NT Pro treats a CRLF pair as a single character in clips whereas NT Std
            > > sees them as two separate characters. Both UIs treat them as a single
            > > character.
            > >
            > > Nitty gritty cursor position clip programming is a b****h!
            > >
            > > This started out as a simple reply and grew into a major project! Aargh!!!
            > >
            > > Art
            > >
            > > PS - If you really want to see for yourself here is some test clip to play
            > > with:
            > > ;Testing Select to EOL differences in NTB Std vs NTB Pro
            > > ;Change comment chars as appropriate.
            > >
            > > ^!Jump Line_Start
            > > ^!Select EOL
            > > ; or
            > > ^!Jump Line_End
            > > ^!Select BOL
            > > ^!Continue Row:Col = ^$GetRow$:^$GetCol$
            > > ;^!Select 0
            > > ;^!MoveCursor -4
            > > ;^!MoveCursor +4
            > > ;^!Keyboard Left
            > > ;^!Keyboard Left
            > > ^!Keyboard Right
            > > ^!Keyboard Right
            > > ^!Continue Row:Col = ^$GetRow$:^$GetCol$
            > >
            >
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